Is Giggle Juice Fair?

[this is not cbring]

Originally posted by 7000rpmisheaven
You could build a 300 HP street car with the intention of running a 250 shot at the track. It would be a fun yet managable street car, and it would be a monster at the track

You could build a 550 HP turbo car but I doubt its manners on the street are going to be as good as the 300 HP street car.

far from the truth.........the beauty about a turbo is that you can turn up/down the boost..........

lets say that i build my ride into a 350 hp 20 psi ride.........if i went driving to work or the store and wanted to conserve fuel, i might turn down the boost to 5 psi, put 135 horses to the ground and get 30 something mpg

[Skyman]

Or keep your foot off the gas and it wont matter where your boost is turned too.

Skyler

Originally posted by blue oval 50h
Whether or not you add a bigger cam, heads, carb or whatever, it is still NATURALY ASPIRATED. It still draws the air in naturaly-no power adder.

Thick Headed Buick Bafoon here....

I love this play on words that "power adder" is only a turbo, supercharger or N02. I don't have an automotive slang dictionary but common sense says a "power adder" adds power....no? (I know, tough concept). Simple logic dictates that "power adder" would mean a better cam, heads, exhaust, carb etc. which all add power.

Some here would label me as anti-Mustang or anti-Ford which simply isn't the case. I've never owned a Ford and come from a GM family, not my choice. My turbo Buick cars have beaten Fords (mostly Mustangs), and I've been beaten by some. Ford wouldn't be GM's fiercest competetor if they weren't doing something right. One of my best friends has a kick *** 1970 Mach I. Of course it has a GM color on it! He's highly impressed with the performace of the Buick Turbo V-6, and I'm impressed with his 351C.

Back on topic...
I've been into cars for almost 19 years now. To each his own, but NOS isn't for me. Last I knew they didn't use it in NHRA which is the emitome of 1/4 mile racing. Give me true-blue high output engines. Supercharged, turbocharged or naturally aspirated, but hold the laughing gas. That's just me.

I started this thread to share everyone's thoughts on the use of NOS. It wasn't intended, nor warranted to use it for personal attacks, insults and arguments. Arguing and insults serve no purpose. Expressing one's views in a calm, logical but spirited sense serves everyone.

There was a comment about whatever's legal is ok to run. I'm not sure in what context that comment was directed but in this state it's illegal to have a charged Nitrous bottle in the car on public roads. A license is required to transport compressed gasses (don't blame me, it's not my law).

As O'Reilly says "This is the no spin zone".

"Bottles are for babies, real men get blown!"

By the way, what's "put up or shut up" all about?
__________________
Dean
1989 PAS Turbo T/A #1233
*12.93@104mph 3.8 V-6
1987 Grand National

http://www.krif.com/tta/

[blue oval 50h]

Put up or shut means if you get beat with nitrous dont complain. I personally love the turbo regals. They are my 2nd favorite car of all time. One day i will have one along side my blue oval. If the word power adder was used so loosly as to heads and cam, does a air filter or race gas warrent it to be a power adder? The word power adder to any car enthusiast means-boost or nitrous. Why do we park on a driveway and drive on a parkway?? Just because nitrous is not of your interest, doesnt make it illegal, or unfair. And about having a lisence to have nitrous, well your not supposed to take off the cats on your car either...but most of us do it!!

[chico]

YOU HANG IN THERE! YOUR ABSOLUTELY CORRECT AND CARRY SOME COMMON SENSE ALONG WITH COMMENTS. wE WOULDN'T BE HERE IF WE DIDN'T ALL ENJOY AND APPRECIATE THE DIALOGUE///YOUR THREAD STARTER WAS A GOOD ONE..STAY IN TOUCH

Originally posted by blue oval 50h
Put up or shut means if you get beat with nitrous dont complain. I personally love the turbo regals. They are my 2nd favorite car of all time. One day i will have one along side my blue oval. If the word power adder was used so loosly as to heads and cam, does a air filter or race gas warrent it to be a power adder? The word power adder to any car enthusiast means-boost or nitrous. Why do we park on a driveway and drive on a parkway?? Just because nitrous is not of your interest, doesnt make it illegal, or unfair. And about having a lisence to have nitrous, well your not supposed to take off the cats on your car either...but most of us do it!!

Naaw, I wouldn't complain. Personally I would consider my competitor's win a cheezy victory. Then, I'd just challenge him to a couple more runs til his bottle's empty at which time he'd refuse to run any more when the playing field's evened up. Which I suppose goes back to my original point. The laughing gas is a shallow way to try to beat a competitor (my minority opinion). How many guys would continue running someone knowing their bottle would be empty in one more run? Or, how many guys would run after their bottle's completely used up?.... Here, let me answer that.....none.

As far as the legality/illegality of the CATCON you're right on the $, it's illegal to tamper with it. It's just that it was mentioned earlier about whether something's legal and fair is all.

Perhaps I'm out of the loop when it comes to hi-po mod vernacular. I find it hard to believe that groups of people are using the word "power adder" for only 3 items that generate more power. I personally won't be using that term in such a narrow sense. To me, a power adder is just what it says it is, a power adder, and that can be a myriad of things. One says to-mato, the other says tom-ato.

Heck, I never claimed since NOS wasn't my thing it was illegal. I said that in this state it's illegal to transport compressed gas (such as NOS) without a license. Just as is tampering with the emission control system. We agree!
__________________
Dean
1989 PAS Turbo T/A #1233
*12.93@104mph 3.8 V-6
1987 Grand National

http://www.krif.com/tta/

[Eric4Nitrous]

something tells me you've got your *** handed to you by a nitrous car and now your crying the blues because your $4,000 turbo can't hang with a $815 power adder.

Originally posted by Eric4Nitrous
something tells me you've got your *** handed to you by a nitrous car and now your crying the blues because your $4,000 turbo can't hang with a $815 power adder.

Bzzzzzzzzzt. Wrong Mr. Contestant. The correct response is:
What is a 1988 supercharged 5.0?

$4,000 turbo? huh? My car came with it. Sticker price in 1989 was $32,000. That high cost was due to research & development to squeeze the 3.8 in the F-body + the rarity of the car itself (20th Anniversary T/A + Indy Pace Car at 1550 units made). Price used in mint condition in 2000 with 7,511 miles?.... $16,700

If you recall, a fully loaded Grand National in 1987 was $17,300 sticker (I have one and the sticker). I doubt the turbocharger was 1/4 cost of the entire car.

It's the one and only time a Mustang walked away from my TTA. He was cool as hell and we talked as long as we could at the traffic lights we ran from. He was pleasantly surprised at the performance of my car considering the mods. He himself was a former Turbo T/A owner and knew their potential. It was a 1988 red Mustang, I figured "easy kill". We punched from a slow roll. His aftermarket exhaust was screaming (sounded great), he was banging gears and pulling from me....very impressive. We talked after that 1st run he said his 5.0 was supercharged. Sh1t, had I known that I'd have known better . Just for giggles we ran from a dead stop from a light (my car's strong point). I got the jump by 1/2-3/4 of a car, but only for about 100'. That car was eye opening.

There was another time on a cool night around here. Saw a late model white Saleen. I ran this guy twice from a roll and it was a dead heat both times...completely even. We stopped and talked for a while too. He popped his hood and low-and-behold, a supercharger.

Anyway...enough of the bed time stories.....
__________________
Dean
1989 PAS Turbo T/A #1233
*12.93@104mph 3.8 V-6
1987 Grand National

http://www.krif.com/tta/

[blue oval 50h]

OK, when im done with my motor(hopefully by x-mas) it will be able to produce a 10.5-10.9 timeslip all motor, naturally aspirated-or is that power adder? Maybe a single digit with nitrous. Its funny how someof the rules in some classes say "single power adder only" So what does that mean? Only one alteration?Orone turbo or one blower or one nitrous kit?

[slow98]

yeah nitrous is illegal on the street in most states, but last time i checked so is street racing...or maybe i live in the only state wear street racing is illegal

Originally posted by blue oval 50h
OK, when im done with my motor(hopefully by x-mas) it will be able to produce a 10.5-10.9 timeslip all motor, naturally aspirated-or is that power adder? Maybe a single digit with nitrous. Its funny how someof the rules in some classes say "single power adder only" So what does that mean? Only one alteration?Orone turbo or one blower or one nitrous kit?

Excellent, and good luck on the motor and 9-10's! The faster the better....

Now I see where our difference in interpretation of "power adder" stems. I've been to the track one time, and it wasn't competitively. Just a free-for-all which was the day I ran my 12 sec pass. Anyhow, it seems that's some sort of rule or restriction that's imposed when you run. So the track rules have defined a power adder to be only those three items. I however have never had that type of exposure, thus I'm defining "power adder" from a non-track perspective. Mystery solved.
__________________
Dean
1989 PAS Turbo T/A #1233
*12.93@104mph 3.8 V-6
1987 Grand National

http://www.krif.com/tta/

[91GTturbo]

Originally posted by 7000rpmisheaven
You could build a 300 HP street car with the intention of running a 250 shot at the track. It would be a fun yet managable street car, and it would be a monster at the track

You could build a 550 HP turbo car but I doubt its manners on the street are going to be as good as the 300 HP street car.

A friend's turbo mustang made 494 rwhp and 536 ft/lbs of torque on 9 lbs of boost in 103* heat. I'm sure that equates to close to 550 flywheel hp. It's his every day driver and drives like stock. His combo: Trick Flow heads and intake, stock cam, bigger fuel system and of course, the turbo kit. Most people would be surprised how well a 500 hp turbo mustang drives. Like Sky said, keep your foot out of it so that it doesn't build boost, and you would never know the car actually makes that much power.

[blue oval 50h]

Good thing i could clear that up....ok next argument!

Oooh, "argument" is so...so, harsh. "Spirited debate" is much more.....temperate.
__________________
Dean
1989 PAS Turbo T/A #1233
*12.93@104mph 3.8 V-6
1987 Grand National

http://www.krif.com/tta/

Originally posted by 91GTturbo
A friend's turbo mustang made 494 rwhp and 536 ft/lbs of torque on 9 lbs of boost in 103* heat. I'm sure that equates to close to 550 flywheel hp. It's his every day driver and drives like stock. His combo: Trick Flow heads and intake, stock cam, bigger fuel system and of course, the turbo kit. Most people would be surprised how well a 500 hp turbo mustang drives. Like Sky said, keep your foot out of it so that it doesn't build boost, and you would never know the car actually makes that much power.

There's quite a few guys running very low 11's, and a few hitting 10's with their TTA's. That's 500-530Hp, but the kicker is the 3.8 turbo engine puts out more torque than Hp. Another guy had his engine professionally rebuilt and hit the dyno. It hit low 600 Hp and almost 700 ft/lbs of torque before it grenaded. Come to find out the engine builder forgot to tighten down one of the rod cap nuts....oops. Anyhow, the moderately modded 3.8's hitting high 10's to low 11's are daily drivers with excellent drivability. That's the nice thing about a turbo, it's a naturally aspirated engine 'til you kick it in the azz with the boost.

Here's the URL to an older article which profiles Bill Sakes' run in his TTA; http://www.89tta.com/pounder.htm. I did a search on Google and got some hits. Looks like his best run was a 9.553 @ 141.881mph. He drove the car there and back home with the A/C on. All with a single turbo 4.1 V-6 daily driver.
__________________
Dean
1989 PAS Turbo T/A #1233
*12.93@104mph 3.8 V-6
1987 Grand National

http://www.krif.com/tta/

[blue oval 50h]

9.5 with a 4.1.....sounds like a stage $2$ motor.

I don't know much about Sakes' car, but I believe it was.
__________________
Dean
1989 PAS Turbo T/A #1233
*12.93@104mph 3.8 V-6
1987 Grand National

http://www.krif.com/tta/

[blue oval 50h]

hey 20, where are you from?

PS. Im not shocked (but impressed)to hear of a fast 3.8. Im fully aware of there potential.

[rbatson2]

Originally posted by blue oval 50h
Its funny how someof the rules in some classes say "single power adder only" So what does that mean? Only one alteration?Orone turbo or one blower or one nitrous kit?

Heeh, they did this, some years ago, because the twin turbos where walking all over everyone and deemed an unfair advantage.

Using N2O in street racing is not cheating when its a "run what ya brung" type race, which is most all street racing.(I think we've had this conversation a few times through the years.) If there are rules against it then... its cheating.

20LbsBoost, I like your cars(mostly the GN) but I can't understand, after 19yrs experience with muscle cars, how you can not know that the term 'power-adder' is used when referring to N2O, Superchargers, and Turbos. I never knew that GN guys got upset because others use power-adders, that really mystifies me that someone with a power-adder(although factory) gets upset about someone else adding something... thats a wild concept to me.

Rick

How-d. I'm in southern lower Michigan.

Thanks for the accolades on the GN!

Well, to explain why I don't know the track or street definition of power adder I don't go to tracks and don't hang around a race type crowd. The guys I hang with are 30-40yrs old, have very well cared for classics and/or are the turbo guys. Nitrous has never been part of our car lifestyle. When I grew up it was cubic inches...end of story. The only exposure or use I've had for NOS has been at the dentist office.

As far as the turbo guys, please don't take my opinion as every turbo guy's opinion. I've had a GN since 1991 and have NEVER heard a turbo referred to as a power adder. I'll take a sample of the GN/TTA guys to see how many of them have heard the term and what it means to them.

I've heard a turbo referred to as a "snail", "whistler", "eureka" (vacuum) and some other things.

Don't think I'm upset about anyone using laughing gas, I'm not at all. I just think it's a weak way to get power. I wouldn't ever use it on my car personally, but that's me. I wanted to get opinions from people who use or endorse it's use is all. Personally, I couldn't take pride in a good 1/4mi time, or impressive street performance becuase of laughing gas.
__________________
Dean
1989 PAS Turbo T/A #1233
*12.93@104mph 3.8 V-6
1987 Grand National

http://www.krif.com/tta/