'01 Type-R

[Sac68]

High 14s? Are you sure about that? From what I hear they've run 15.2-15.3.... Which to me would suggest that buying a Civic Si would be a smarter route for the prospective Honda buyer.

[Unit 5302]

Well inferno here we go again. Yes, and Integra Type R will hang with a SN95 Mustang GT stone stock for stock. It will not hang with a Fox GT. Any Mustang 5.0 with a stick from 1987-1993 WILL beat an Integra Type R hands down. With simple freebies, they will whoop a Type R. With the same freebies an SN95 5.0 will also beat a Type R hands down, no problems.

You say the Integra handles better than a Mustang GT. That is totally false. Have you read the article in SCC where they got an ego, and they decided to pit the Type R vs the new GT. Dispite having no idea how to drive a V-8 musclecar they were unable to get the Type R to beat the 'Stang on a road course. In fact on the regular road course the stang handed the Type R it's *** . Then they went to a very tight course and were unable to beat the stang by more than 1/2 a second. Their times in the quarter show that they could have gotten a full 3-4 tenths quicker in the stock GT. They have no idea how to drive it, yet it still whoops the car they do know how to drive.

Let's get real. The Integra Type R is an overpriced, underpowered, pathetic attempt to compete with a Mustang. Oh but it does get pretty good gas mileage for a high powered rice burner.

[fastang]

Whats up with everyone thinking that SN95 5.0's are slow? A stick fox is only a tenth quicker because it 200 lbs lighter. I dont think any typeR will beat a stock SN95. Not even close.

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95GT B303 cam, 1.7 rockers, 65mm TB, 73mm MAF, milled heads, 355's K&N, off road pipes, pulleys, msd coil, 9mm wires, Tremec 3550, Pro5.0 shifter,10.5 Motorsport clutch, weld in subframe connectors

[waldoo28]

I have a question for UNIT. I have raced a friend who owns a stock 93 GT. When my car was stock w/ only a B&M shifter. His car is auto. I beat him by about a car up to 90. Is there that much difference in performance between a stock auto vs. a stock 5-speed, for the fox body? Just curious, because it sounds like the type-r would give my car a run stock vs. stock, based on the discussions I have read.

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96 GT: MAC CAI, 87MM MAM, 70MM TB, MAC 2.5" h w/cats, American Thunder catback, 373, FMS pulleys, Ripper Shifter, PPIII, 160 thermostat.
Yet to put on: MAC control arms/lowering springs, Steeda timing adjuster.

[Unit 5302]

The AOD in stock form is a very slow tranny. It'll cost a couple tenths in the 1/4 easy vs a 5 speed. The 5 speed is trickier to launch, but it can net 1/2 sec over the auto when driven very well. It's really the same tranny as what your '96 would get if it were an auto.

To get any better than a mid 15 out of a stock 4.6 GT with an auto would be pretty difficult. Your car, with the 5spd, should be a low 15 second car stone stock. I'd expect a stone stock '93 GT auto to run real high 14's. The '93's had some really crappy computers though, and maybe your buddies car just wasn't putting on it's best show. Still it's it's certainly believable you could hang with him, so could a Type R for that matter, but unless I'm mistaken, the Type R doesn't come with an auto and that makes it a little uneven for comparison.

For the bare basic numbers an AOD will rob about 22%, the T-5 drivetrain is around 17%. That alone means about 10hp less at the wheels, plus less aggressive gearing and slow shifting. Manually shifting the AOD can net a tenth easy. It's more of a crusing tranny than a race tranny, when stock.

fastang I've seen numbers posted on the Type R that it's capable of running a 14.7 or so. That's just about perfect. Most you'll see in the low 15's. The rice crowd likes to believe that will beat a 5.0 because most 5.0's you see run mid 14's stone stock. That's the average though. A quick stock stang with just freebies can run damn near 14 flat for the SD 5.0's, and the MAF cars are in the low 14's. The SN95's run high 14's stone stock. With an Integra running it's best, and a stone stock SN95 running pretty well they would be pretty even. Freebies on a SN95 5.0 can net the big advantage though. 200 lbs actually means about 2 tenths in the quarter.

As far as an Integra Type R taking an SN95 5.0 5 speed car vs car, you're right. It won't happen. The drivers are the only thing that can even it out.

The biggest thing I've begun to notice with the rice crowd is that they quote the car's potential performance. The best numbers you'll ever see the car's pull. We quote average performance 'cause we don't want to sound quite so cocky, especially because we've been driving and learning about cars for more than the last 5 years and so have a great many other stangers who'll put you right back into your place if you start coming up with a whole bunch of BS. That suddenly makes the battlefield look more even to them or something. The import crowd is anxious to prove they can hang with the real musclecars out there. With the very small exception, they can't.

[This message has been edited by Unit 5302 (edited 02-05-2001).]

[90dpscoupe]

Yep, take my car for instance, all stock except for cold air induction, and electric fan, running 13.9, yea a type-r could hit 14.7, but like unit said thats a perfect driver, i could do that with my air silencer and stock clutch fan, on bald tires, but as far as handling, well maybe without my front sway, it might outhandle me, pretty sure..for a type-r to hit 13.9 it would need some turbo induction or sumpin lol, but for a 4 banger pretty good.

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90 lx coupe: Mac cold air fenderwell, accel supercoil,advncd ignition,3-core radiatr, FMS alum D/S, Black magic fan, 3.27grs, 3chbr flows.
Best time: 13.9116(on 225/60/15 firehawks)
Best mph: 97.80
Best 60': 2.0047

next mods: subframes, mac h-pipe

[nosfed]

Maybe I live a sheltered life, but I've seen a fox lose to a ricer one time. Around Wichita Ks theres a guy named Kong that drives a civic hatchback with an Integra motor and nos, and it WILL outrun near stock mustangs. I've seen that thing run 12.90s on the track. He's actually a cool guy, used to buy his nitrous from me. Anyway, it's refreshing to see a guy like that: respectable car and a decent attitude.

Other than that, on the street with real cars and real drivers and real conditions, all those ricers just get killed. In fact, the ricers have their own place they race, and everybody else races other places.

[nosfed]

Maybe I live a sheltered life, but I've seen a fox lose to a ricer one time. Around Wichita Ks theres a guy named Kong that drives a civic hatchback with an Integra motor and nos, and it WILL outrun near stock mustangs. I've seen that thing run 12.90s on the track. He's actually a cool guy, used to buy his nitrous from me. Anyway, it's refreshing to see a guy like that: respectable car and a decent attitude.

Other than that, on the street with real cars and real drivers and real conditions, all those ricers just get killed. In fact, the ricers have their own place they race, and everybody else races other places.

[tra9379]

I've raced a few of those with supposedly awesome drivers and spanked the hell out of them. And all my car has is full exhaust, K&N panel, timing up to 14 and a shift kit. Easily 4 to 5 cars bhind me.

I also believe that they are overpriced and underpowered rice mobiles.

[dinomite]

Don't worry streetstang, just wait till that spoiled kid crashes that R and make him buy a mustang..........

[Sac68]

Its not impossible to create a fast Honda; its just more costly, time consuming, and difficult than creating a fast Ford.

A guy around here used to drive around and race an older Civic CRX with an built Integra GSR motor and a 50 shot...I believe he ran mid 12s and suprised alot of Mustang and Fbody guys. I have nothing but respect for a car like that; a lot of time and effort went into making an underdog with decent performance that no one expects.

This is the exception though, most Hondas are 17 second cars with big wings and goofy wheels. Which is what gives the few real "import enthusiasts" bad reputations...oh well, better them than us.

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98 Mustang coupe 3.8L V6
87 Mustang GT hatchback 5.0L V8
87 Bronco XLT 4bbl 351W

My mom drives a 99 Mustang GT convertable.

[95mustanggt]

I don't know, I saw a guy in a riced out V6 stang last night. he could only see the top of my car from the front, and he was giving me some attitude. As soon as the GT badges and dual exhaust showed them selves he turned away and quickly made an exit down another street. I guess he was smart enough to know he'd get his *** handed to him (assuming he didn't have a blower to something).

Sad part is that with the rims and body work he spent on the car, he could of have a GT! Oh well I guess to each his own, right?

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White 1995 Mustang GT
Dynomax Cat-Back, Offroad H-pipe, K&N Filters w/o Air Silencer
My 1995 Mustang GT

[StreetStang37]

Okay, its a nice little car. I can chirp the tires even in third. Must be a little easier than RWD cars, I dunno. Its not too fast. It feels fast cuz it revs sooo high and kinda fast, but thats the gearing cuz the speedo shows Im going not as fast as it feels its going. We raced my brothers '94 9C1 LT1 (Caprice ex-cop car) and lost in the Type-R. Not by much but still lost. My brother probably runs a high 14 like 14.7-8 so the integra runs like a 14.9-15.1. Not too bad though. Its the Cobra or SS of rice rockets

[inferno]

Unit, you make me laugh with that comment about the SCC drivers not being able to drive a Mustang. What makes you think that? Do you think all imports are FWD? Do you not know about the 500hp 300ZX that is one of the SCC project cars? Or what about the 350hp RX7? I guess the fact that they drove the Mustang faster than the factory rated 1/4 mile time doesn't give any indication of the quality of driving either.

I have seen many 5.0's run high 14's stock. Since you want to play the magazine game, in the January MM&FF in the readers rides section on page 48, the 89 GT is running mid 14's with mods, and the 86 just above it is running low 14's with modifications. I have noticed this in other magazines as well. This leads me to believe that stock vs stock, a Type R can hang with a Fox as it is also a 14 second car. And I still can't believe you can say that the stock GT handles as good as a stock Type R. That is just plain hilarious.

[fastang]

An ITR will NOT beat a stick fox or SN95 5.0. A good friend of mine swapped an ITR motor into a 92 ls integra body. He got a racing trans and still only ran a 14.9 and thats a lighter body than the regular ITR. He put a header,full exh, and and induction and his best run was a 14.7. I hit a 14.6 STOCK.

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95GT B303 cam, 1.7 rockers, 65mm TB, 73mm MAF, milled heads, 355's K&N, off road pipes, pulleys, msd coil, 9mm wires, Tremec 3550, Pro5.0 shifter,10.5 Motorsport clutch, weld in subframe connectors

[fastang]

Oh, I seriously doubt that a new gt will out handle an ITR, but who gives a $hit anyway, its still slow.

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95GT B303 cam, 1.7 rockers, 65mm TB, 73mm MAF, milled heads, 355's K&N, off road pipes, pulleys, msd coil, 9mm wires, Tremec 3550, Pro5.0 shifter,10.5 Motorsport clutch, weld in subframe connectors

[inferno]

Hey fastang, a stock ITR is able to run high 14's. Unit brought up the SCC competition where the stock ITR ran a 14.6. I just pointed out examples of people running 14's in modified Foxes. The 89 ran a 14.5 with mods, and the 86 is running low 14's with mods. This leads me to believe that a stock ITR can take a stock Foxes and SN95's or at least be real close.

[smooth]

..

[This message has been edited by smooth (edited 02-06-2001).]

[smooth]

who cares about an ITR. can you drop in a stroker crank, heads, cam, intake and longtubes and run 11s all day on motor?

the point is no one here cares about a car that is 95% maxed out from the factory and is slow to begin with, no matter how well it can front-tail around the corners.

[Unit 5302]

Allright. Lemme whip out a baseline for average stock Mustang GT non convert 5spds with good driving.

1987-1988 14.4@98mph
1989-1993 14.6@97mph
1994-1995 14.8@95mph
1996-1998 15.0@94mph
1999-2001 14.0@100mph

With freebies and better driving.

1987-1988 14.0@100mph
1989-1993 14.2@99mph
1994-1995 14.5@97mph
1996-1998 14.9@95mph
1999-2001 13.8@101mph

Now tell me. Which one of those can the Integra Type R outrun at a potential of 14.7@94?

If you want to pay for gears you can knock 3+ tenths off any of those times and still keep good fuel economy and drivability with the Stang.

As far as SCC getting a good time with the new GT at 14.3, even Motor Trend got a 14.0 out of it. They (SCC) found it fun to kick the *** end out and do a little Bo Duke driving around the road courses, which costs time. Sounds to me like they were having a blast, not getting the best time. So what if they have driven a TT RWD car? If you think a TT is anything like a N/A V-8 at the limits you are crazy. They came in there expecting to beat the Mustang in the straight and kill it in the twisties. They got whooped in the straight, whooped on the first road course, and managed a tiny edge in the super tight course. All with misquoting what kind of valvetrain the Mustang had, and with presumably NO experiance ever behind the wheel of the Ford.