Nitrous "cheap way to win"

[46stang]

so what did the liar run when he used his nos? just curious oh yea, i used to have alot of fun when i ran high 14's-low 15's too! to me it doesn't matter how fast you go just have fun doing it at least you know you were the better driver take it easy
leon

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96 stang,ported 99 heads, 99 intake, 99 cams,Steeda power pullies,Kirban adj.reg.,Pro-m 87,24#inj.,70mm t/b,BBK longtube headers,Bassani x-pipe w/cats, Dynomax ultraflow catback,iat mod, home depot ram air, k@n,373's,cobra brakes,fms spings, tri-ax shifter.
best et 13.80
best mph 103.3
bfg street tires,bakersfield, ca

[1BAD89]

I'm just giving you guys a hard time, yeah I read your post, now you need to get nos and go up to the guy and race for money and smoke him. =P Good luck. Anyway you never told me what kid of car you have? See ya.

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3:55's,BBK Off-Road H-pipe,BBK jet-hot coated equal length shorty headers,BBK 70mm Throttle Body,BBK adjustable clutch quadrant,C & L 76mm Mass air meter,Cobra R's 17x9 w/ 245's,Trick Flow Intake,Flowmaster Force II exhaust system, Super Duty T5,Centerforce II Clutch,Heavy Duty Radiator,9mm Ford racing plug wires,Accel cap and Rotor
http://www.geocities.com/i8urvpr/JM.html?987369348700

[1BAD89]

Sorry I see that you have an 88 GT now. I just now have read your post all he way through. Are you spinning off the line or what? You should at least be in 14's. But my first run I ever ran was like a 15.3 so....it should get better. =P Later

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3:55's,BBK Off-Road H-pipe,BBK jet-hot coated equal length shorty headers,BBK 70mm Throttle Body,BBK adjustable clutch quadrant,C & L 76mm Mass air meter,Cobra R's 17x9 w/ 245's,Trick Flow Intake,Flowmaster Force II exhaust system, Super Duty T5,Centerforce II Clutch,Heavy Duty Radiator,9mm Ford racing plug wires,Accel cap and Rotor
http://www.geocities.com/i8urvpr/JM.html?987369348700

[86GT]

Originally posted by 88gt150k:
a good n/a combo can put a blower or nitrous car away, unless the guy already has heads/cam/intake + nitous. that might be tuff. but racing has alot to do with tuning/driver/ traction and money of course.
run what ya brung

I agree with this.
That's what I went through. I still can't launch but when my car gets going it'll fly by most of the guys around here, making them think I've got the bottle in.

Practice your launching and shifting, and with good tires, you should take him with both of you running off the bottle.

[Dark_5.0]

I thought that I should of been in the 14's to but a 15.20 is all she has in her. I think alot of my problem is my headers the car felt faster before I installed them (bbk equal length 1 5/8 headers)

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88 mustang gt convertible bored to 306 BBk equal length headers mac cold air fender kit cowl hood nitto drag radials ford racing clutch flow masters h-pipe 160* thermostat 16 degrees of timing electric fan off 94' t-bird jacobs electronics cap and wires.
best 60 ft 2.14, best 1/8th 9.65, best 1/4 15.2 @89mph

[Unit 5302]

I would agree, right now the headers are hurting you.

[1BAD89]

Why do you think the headers are hurting him?

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3:55's,BBK Off-Road H-pipe,BBK jet-hot coated equal length shorty headers,BBK 70mm Throttle Body,BBK adjustable clutch quadrant,C & L 76mm Mass air meter,Cobra R's 17x9 w/ 245's,Trick Flow Intake,Flowmaster Force II exhaust system, Super Duty T5,Centerforce II Clutch,Heavy Duty Radiator,9mm Ford racing plug wires,Accel cap and Rotor
http://www.geocities.com/i8urvpr/JM.html?987369348700

[86GT]

The headers are hurting him because of lack of back pressure. I had 1 5/8" shorties with and o/r H pipe on my stock engine, and it was gutless off the line, only at 3500rpm and higher did I feel any difference.

[1BAD89]

I personally don't think the headers are hurting him, just got done watching a friend on the dyno about a week ago. All stock 90 LX/ with just headers added 8rwhp, and 10rwtq, so.... not sure what your talking about.

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3:55's,BBK Off-Road H-pipe,BBK jet-hot coated equal length shorty headers,BBK 70mm Throttle Body,BBK adjustable clutch quadrant,C & L 76mm Mass air meter,Cobra R's 17x9 w/ 245's,Trick Flow Intake,Flowmaster Force II exhaust system, Super Duty T5,Centerforce II Clutch,Heavy Duty Radiator,9mm Ford racing plug wires,Accel cap and Rotor http://www.geocities.com/i8urvpr/JM.html?987369348700

[This message has been edited by 1BAD89 (edited 06-02-2001).]

[86GT]

I think that this is getting off topic.

Basically what I'm refering to the idea of velocity, the bigger the area it has to fill means that it slows down right? (same idea as ports on heads), I believe that's volumetric efficiency, that's why 1 1/2" headers will yield better results on a stock engine. I'm not saying you won't gain power, but there is some drawbacks to it.

[This message has been edited by 86GT (edited 06-02-2001).]

[Unit 5302]

Adding 1 5/8" equal length shortie headers on a stock car is a really quick way to add another tenth or two onto your 1/4 mile time.

The velocity is a byproduct of the real culprit; the tuning effect has much more to do with it.

The headers are actually designed to help pull exhuast gasses out of the engine while the exhaust valve is open. This will lower your cylinder pressure. Cylinder pressure is directly related to torque production, and at low rpms the overlap time is greater, allowing for more exhaust gas to leave the cylinder, resulting in lower torque production, and a loss of power until higher rpms.

I would seriously doubt the validity of ANY dyno run showing an 8hp (peak) increase in hp production with equal length shortie headers on a totally stock engine.

Adding a high flow H pipe and freer flowing exhaust compounds the problem on a stock engine.

Full length headers are designed to help create a tuning effect at higher rpm's, yet they also have a tendancy to create a backpressure pulse to keep some backpressure on the cylinders so they do not rob as much (or any) torque. Shorties simply cannot do that, their collectors make it much harder to create that type of backpresure.

So while the headers may increase hp production by 8hp, it'll be increased at 5500rpm, well out of the powerband that a geared 5.0 should be seeing. It'll also be costing hp and serious amounts of torque up until higher engine rpms.

Take a look at the primary size of the head's exhaust port, compare to a 1 5/8" header and you'll see what 86GT was saying about the lower velocity, and why they "tune" your exhaust flow. 1 1/2" unequal length headers are the best compremise for a stock engine, unless you go with long tubes.

[1BAD89]

Well Unit I have seen it with my own eyes, so believe what you want to believe. Also adding an off-road H-pipe, headers, and mufflers, WILL knock time off of your 1/4 time. It has proved so on MY 1/4 time and my friends. So I have no idea where your coming from? I encourage you to get more people in on this discussion.

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3:55's,BBK Off-Road H-pipe,BBK jet-hot coated equal length shorty headers,BBK 70mm Throttle Body,BBK adjustable clutch quadrant,C & L 76mm Mass air meter,Cobra R's 17x9 w/ 245's,Trick Flow Intake,Flowmaster Force II exhaust system, Super Duty T5,Centerforce II Clutch,Heavy Duty Radiator,9mm Ford racing plug wires,Accel cap and Rotor http://www.geocities.com/i8urvpr/JM.html?987369348700

[This message has been edited by 1BAD89 (edited 06-02-2001).]

[Unit 5302]

Oh, I'm not saying the headers, H pipe, exhaust combo will hurt the 1/4 mile time. Adding just headers on a bone factory car will in most cases, though.

The explanation in physics is right above your last post.

An H pipe will add a legitimate 15-20hp. That is serious extra power. Stock your 5.0 won't pull worth crap at much higher than 5000rpms, when you add all the exhaust mods, you get it to flow better up top, but you lose low end.

The reason you may not feel it is because of your gears. The 3.55:1 gear ratio you are currently running allows you to stay in a more narrow rpm range allowing you to utilize the extra topend power the exhaust creates. Not to mention the additional torque multiplication involved with going from factory 2.73's to 3.55's which offsets some of the torque loss.

I could compare your experiance to the 150 experiances of other 5.0 drivers who've experianced the loss of low end torque phenomenon, too.

As far as the dyno, was it at the same temp, was the car at the same temp, same humidity? Was the additional 8hp and 10 lb/ft at the previous (and reoccuring max horsepower rpm)? Or was the original dyno showing a max hp at 4200rpm and the new one showing 4500rpm? If that's the case, what's the increase at the previous max, the new max, and avg?

It all gets technical, but if the old headers made

178hp@3800, 183hp@4000, 187hp@4200, 185hp@4400, 179hp@4600, 171hp@4800, 166hp@5000

new headers
164hp@3800, 173hp@4000, 183hp@4200, 193hp@4400, 183hp@4600, 174hp@4800, 169hp@5000

The new headers would have added a peak 8hp increase, but overall they wouldn't have helped anything, plus they would have moved the powerband a little higher hurting low end performance on a stock geared car pretty bad.

Adding an H pipe and freer flowing exhaust might make your numbers look more like

158hp@3800, 170hp@4000, 188hp@4200, 200hp@4400, 201hp@4600, 191hp@4800, 183hp@5000

Serious low end losses occur with those mods, but if you have gears, or solid traction and you can keep the car in it's powerband, you'll certainly improve your times.

It really helps in the 4500-5500rpm area for flow, but much above 5000rpm most stock 5.0's are restricted by their heads/intake. That pretty much negates the higher rpm gains much above 5500rpm.

I experianced a huge performance increase with my hi flow H-pipe and 2.5" exhaust. I'm relatively certain, had I chosen to use the 1 5/8" headers I had, my low end would have been deystroyed because of my stock gears (2.73) and my T-5z's 2.95:1 1st gear ratio. It's already too tall, with the 3.35:1 1st gear of the standard T-5 I had, I could launch very hard (with street tires) and it would use every bit of traction out of the hole. Now it's very, very hard to manage to get the proper launch. I either bog badly, spin badly, or spin a little, then bog a little.

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1987 GT 5spd.
D&D Performance "Z" spec T-5
Dynomax 2.5" Super Turbo system
BBK 2 1/2" H-pipe with cats

[1BAD89]

Ok I must hav mis-read your post I thought it said the headers,h-pipe, and free flowing exhaust would hurt it. By the way,I am looking for a new engine and I was thinking 347 or 306 for DSS or CHP, anyone havean opinion? Also with the new motor I wa thinking of going to long tube headers, possibly bassani or BBK? And a short off-road X-pipe? Tell me what you think?

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3:55's,BBK Off-Road H-pipe,BBK jet-hot coated equal length shorty headers,BBK 70mm Throttle Body,BBK adjustable clutch quadrant,C & L 76mm Mass air meter,Cobra R's 17x9 w/ 245's,Trick Flow Intake,Flowmaster Force II exhaust system, Super Duty T5,Centerforce II Clutch,Heavy Duty Radiator,9mm Ford racing plug wires,Accel cap and Rotor
http://www.geocities.com/i8urvpr/JM.html?987369348700