stang vs turbo Si - Page 2

inferno · 02-17-2001, 07:36 PM

Hey dinomite, how much money does it take to make a an american car go faster than 8.7 and what kind of mods? I imagine a blower with lots of boost, a built engine and fuel system, a full race suspension, some form of weight reduction and in most cases slicks(a very few cars can claim 9's or better on "street tires" aka drag radials). I don't know how this discussion moved to full race cars. I don't see why people seem to have gotten offended by the fact that Cobra R's and Vipers have a tendency to break axles when you add sticky tires with stock horsepower.

FWD vehicles were never designed with drag racing in mind, as you all are quick to point out(I also agree), but some of you need to give credit where credit is due. Unibody Honda's are on the verge of breaking into the 8's, and I am sure that tube frame cars will break into the 7's within the next two years. People have been racing RWD V8's for decades, but not until the late 80's has there been a surge for FWD imports. The industry is growing a lot faster than ever expected and the records keep falling. There are imports out there(not very many) that can put on slicks, run 10's at the strip, then put on street tires and go home. I know the number of domestics that can do this is a lot higher, but there is a lot more time and experience behind those vehicles and how to make power with them. There are a few FWD imports generating 4 digit power numbers which was thought to be impossible, and a number of single digit FWD cars.

It is sad to see that quite a few people on this site still have the idea that there is no such thing as a fast import. Everytime I point out something, I get posts by several individuals trying to "prove me wrong" or dismiss my post. I also continue to see bashing posts in other threads that I haven't responded to. I know that the domestic crowd and the import crowd will never see completely eye to eye, but I would hope that there would be a lot more respect for each other. I am a moderator at an import website which I will not name, and I am sickened by the many import owners who talk down on domestics and I don't let people bash domestics. I think that all car enthusiasts whether driving a RWD V8 or a FWD I4 have a lot more in common than they are willing to admit. I probably am going to get a lot of flames for this post from individuals that are closed minded and not willing to accept FWD cars as *gasp* competition and don't want to accept the fact that there are some out there that can beat them.

dinomite · 02-17-2001, 09:13 PM

I'm not saying its impossible by any means, and yes, with further weight reduction in those tiny things, they will do better. My point is just that these people always tell me that imports/FWDs can be fast too, which is true, but even with the huge industry backing, its horribly more expensive than making a fast American.

inferno · 02-17-2001, 10:46 PM

Ok dynamite, I offer you another question instead; How much would it cost to get a 5.0 into the 11's including estimated cost of vehicle?

02-18-2001, 04:25 PM

Hey inferno, good points. The only thing i can really say is i find the rumble of an american V8 and the feel of thrust from a RWD car alot more satisfying than the wrapped out lawnmower sound and torquesteer of most imports. I can respect anything that hauls *** , but i just can't get into the whole import trend because most of the people who build up those cars also add several wings to the back, weird contorted body kits, stickers up the yin-yang and big 'ol fart cans. I saw a honda civic in hot rod magazine that ran i think 12's that just plain looked good (tastefully done) but i don't see many tastefully done hondas because of the whole "scene". When you get into track drag racing it's amazing what people can do with those cars, but me personally i don't care for them that much, and it sounds like many of the people on this site may feel the same. Just something to think about.

Unit 5302 · 02-18-2001, 04:53 PM

1988 5.0 LX Hatch. $2500. A little worn out. Assuming standard everyday mods have been made 90% of the time they are. 2.5" cat back, cold air, bumped timing, shifter, underdrives, clutch adjuster, 190 fuel pump.

Rebuild kit: $420
block machining: $150
Twisted Wedge heads: $900
E-303 cam: $160
1.6:1 RR: $200
TFS Intake: $400
AFPR: $100
65mm T/B: $180
cold air: $free
190lph pump: $free
underdrives: $free
1 5/8" longtubes: $240
2.5" H for LT: $130
2.5" cat back: $free
Pro 5.0: $free
clutch adj: $free
4.10 gears: $400 installed
subframes: $150
control arms: $300
clutch kit: $250
4cly springs: $20
NOS 100 shot: $400

Estimated ET (since you'd need a rollcage at the strip) mid/high 11's.

Total cost: $6900. Reliable, streetable, 5.0. No stroker, no supercharger. Probably 11's w/o spray. Now, inferno I expect you can pick a FWD car (not replace the motor with anything other than stock IE: no GSR motors into a CRX otherwise we can change our **** to a 427 BB in a $800 4banger, and cut massive cost) and come somewhere close to that figure?

Good luck.

inferno · 02-19-2001, 01:52 AM

Hey Unit, add in the "free" mods cost too and then I will do mine. Assume this car was owned by a little old lady so no previous mods. By the way, if it is that easy and cheap to get into the 11's, then why are most guys on this site 13 and 14 second cars?

Unit 5302 · 02-19-2001, 12:44 PM

Premium for pristine 88 5.0 owned by old lady who has never abused it. $1500.
Subtract engine rebuild, since it no longer needs it. -$570.
Pristine 5.0 surcharge $930
Pro 5.0 $200
Catback $200
Coldair $140
Pullies $80
S.Adjust$90
190 LPH $90

I still don't see why you want me to add the price of parts that will almost certainly be found on these cars. It would be very possible to find a car with the rest of the full exhaust for the same price or a couple hundred more. Finding an 88 5.0 in pristine condition like you have described would most likely cost more and be nearly impossible to find in bone stock condition (there are many on this board who have searched, you can ask), but if you want a perfect 5.0, then I want a perfect mint condition ricer counterpart priced. You asked what it would cost to get a 5.0 into the 11's including purchasing the car. My estimate is accurate, since it's more than likely what is going to be found. Still, I'll mold it around your desires. The total is now $8630 for a mint condition never abused reliable 11 second machine. Remember, I don't wanna see some ragged out '87 CRX with a GSR motor. You can do this on the totally up and up. I want a pristine car using it's stock motor as a base for modification. The import must be reliable and you must be able to drive it away from the track on the streets. Otherwise you'll faint at the combo I'll throw your way. I'm sure I can get an 11 sec stang all together for $4000 total.

As far as why are most stangers in the 13's and 14's, it's for the same reason most ricers are in the 15's and 16's. $$. That's still hugely expensive. Adding $4500 in mods to create a reliable 11 second machine is a lot for most 5.0 owners. Mismatched combo's, poor tuning, running heavy, lack of driving skill, and lack of suspension mods are what keeps the 5.0's in the 13-14 range. A well driven 88 5.0 with just freebies and maybe a set of underdrives can run 14.0, Mr 5.0 has seen one run 13.80 with freebies and optional 3.08's off the floor with NO mods (I wish I cold drive like that). Getting 2 seconds out of them can be accomplished with a good combo.

If you don't beleive the combo is capable of that, please feel free to look at 88workcar's combo, from which most of the mods are based on. He's running real low 12's w/o spray (12.1 on slicks 12.3 on radial), I've made it a little more aggressive to compensate for the loss of slicks so that the T-5 could be kept. If the N20 was used, you can absolutely guarantee 11's.

fastang · 02-19-2001, 02:19 PM

Inferno, Heres your written invitation.
Please bring all of your friends with Hondas down to Carlsbad on March 24th. Turbos and all. I dont care if you have to trailer them, just bring them, turbos and all. Your's truly...Jesse.

------------------
95GT B303 cam, 1.7 rockers, 65mm TB, 73mm MAF, milled heads, 355's K&N, off road pipes, pulleys, msd coil, 9mm wires, Tremec 3550, Pro5.0 shifter,10.5 Motorsport clutch, weld in subframe connectors

EZRIDN · 02-19-2001, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by inferno:
, then why are most guys on this site 13 and 14 second cars?

And what does the average hondooo run?????

------------------
'86 GT.
Gears & Flows

Unit 5302 · 02-19-2001, 06:36 PM

I don't normally defend inferno, but he has a couple semi-valid points.

The Mustang 5.0 is much faster than what it normally gets credit for. The coined phrase 5.slow has been used for a while. I'd be willing to bet it came from not to pick on any one, but the MAF 5.0 AOD cars that were bone stock, driven bad, and out of tune.

I know of an 1995 GT manual convert that runs around here. He's downright dumb. He's got 1 5/8 headers, and straight pipes, a 65mm T/B, 3.73 gears, and a couple other minor mods. He wonders hopelessly why he doesn't get traction (can't drive), and why his ET's are in the high 14's low 15's. (mismatched)

Tons of Stangers out there just don't do any research on what will really work well together, and how to make good ET. The same with the ricers.

Also worth noting is the decreased fuel economy with my listed combo. With 2.02" intake valves, a cam, and 4.10's, I'd be suprised if a person would get much better than 20mpg on the hiway at 55 instead of 70mph where the stocker gets the best.

The real benefit of the Mustang is to take it from 11's to 10's isn't much more expensive really. Ditch the N20, add a stroker and a supercharger, for another $3500 you can run 10's all day and still be streetable. To go to 9's is a hell of a lot more. No longer can the 5.0 HO block be used, but it also requires very very good stuff inside the motor. Even so, you can choose 9's, 8's, 7's, or 6's. Depending on how much $$ you have you can get whatever you want.

inferno · 02-20-2001, 03:24 PM

Okay, here is my 11 second daily driven car:
Used 90 5 speed LS(non-vtec) Integra: 2500
Built bottom end(forged pistons, shot-peened factory rods, and block guard): 1500 installed
Drag Gen 2 Turbo kit: 2000
ClutchMaster Stage 3 Clutch: 250
Apex Electric boost controller: 400
310 CC fuel injectors: 95 each
Apex Super AFR (fuel controller): 400
Drop in high flow fuel pump: 250
MSD Full ignition set-up: 500
Eibach Drag spring set: 300
3" custom exhaust and high flow cat: 500
Nitto NT-450 tires: 54 each

Total: 9196

500 dollars more for 11's. That isn't really that big of a difference now is it? This combo could run faster with DR or slicks(of course).

fastang · 02-20-2001, 04:37 PM

Inferno, your forgetting about the cyl head and the intake setup. And your not going to run 11's in a Honda with the stock computer setup are you? What about your transmission? Will the stocker with a clutch last with 11 second passes? I think your going to need around 20 grand to do it right.

------------------
95GT B303 cam, 1.7 rockers, 65mm TB, 73mm MAF, milled heads, 355's K&N, off road pipes, pulleys, msd coil, 9mm wires, Tremec 3550, Pro5.0 shifter,10.5 Motorsport clutch, weld in subframe connectors

Unit 5302 · 02-20-2001, 04:56 PM

I wouldn't be talking too big about the tranny, I'm relying on the stock T-5 to hold 11's. With the shifter and as long as you're not running slicks, it should, but damn, I'm pushing it.

As far as the lack of intake, yeah, I see that along with no head mods, but I don't know how much they can do.

Remember too, my combo is based on a super nice older 5.0, hehe, cause inferno wanted a granny driven 5.0.

I'm pretty sure my original estimate would be much more accurate at $6900, although asking a beaten T-5 to hold 11's is probably a bit much.

inferno · 02-21-2001, 01:41 AM

Add another 400 bucks to my price for valves. That is all else that is needed. And yes that is with a stock computer. The Apex AFR addresses the fuel needs and the MSD ignition provides the spark and timing needed. And about the tranny, it is strong enough to hold 9 second passes or faster(no B-series trannies have made it to the 8's.....yet). The AEM drag Civic is using a stock Prelude transmission and it is running 8's. So 900 more than your setup....I have another build-up that would be a little cheaper, but it still isn't cheaper than the 11 sec stang. Hey Unit, you think those stock tires will make an 11 second pass?? That is why I included tires in my 11 second "cheap" build-up.

inferno · 02-21-2001, 01:48 AM

Hey, Fastang, you just made my price cheaper by 300 bucks. My set-up is only 600 more expensive. I just remembered about the computer that I want to get....The Apex Power FC. It sells for about 800 bucks and that means I can take off the MSD ignition, the Super AFR, and the Boost controller and add spark plugs and 8.5mm wire for 200. I don't know why I didn't think about that since I am planning on getting one

97snakedriver · 02-21-2001, 01:55 AM

Heard it referenced on PH, but what is a block guard exactly?

Jaydee · 02-21-2001, 08:27 AM

Two questions: How does a computor upgrade negate the need for the MSD ignition? Does it unleash some hidden capability in the stock setup? I am also still having a hard time believing that the stock FWD drive train (especially on a 10+ year old car), can withstand repeated hard launches without spitting parts all over the place.

------------------
1965 K code coupe - numbers matching - restoration ongoing. 1987 LX notch, stock heads and intake, 3.55's and typical bolt on's 13.89@100.25

Unit 5302 · 02-21-2001, 09:41 AM

I don't know of any 5.0 that you could get with the original Goodyear Eagle 225/60 VR15's. They only last about 20xxx miles on average.

No problems with quality stock sized radials, you can go 245 easy. I haven't included a tune up budget, so I've left out those prices. That stuff is routine maintanence. If your Integra needs the DR's then it needs them. The Stang doesn't (although it would benefit).

Hehehe, now my personal budget build.

1987 LX Hatch, 4 banger. $800
Medium riser 427 dual quad. free

Borg warner T-10. free

8.8" rear $200
3.73's $200
everything else, what maybe $2k?

Hehe, total $3200?

Jaydee · 02-21-2001, 09:48 AM

Hey Unit, see if you can find another 427 for free - if so I'll take it. It just may be worth butchering up the ol' 65 K code to fit it in

302 LX Eric · 02-21-2001, 10:03 AM

If it is so easy and so cheap to get a 4-banger Integra into the 11's, then why do nearly all them at the track run 15's & 16's?

I have been to a test & tune night at my local track, where a 100+ car field of imports were present (the track didn't advertise to the rest of us that it was an import night!

) Anyways, my buddy and I wittnessed countless 16 second passes - fart pipes, stickers, wings, stereos, TVs and all! There was a Prelude that was gutted, had a rollcage, slicks, and a real "pretty" engine that couldn't even go lower than 13.5's. Of course all the rice boys were drooling over his Prelude like it was some Pro-5.0 car.

Inferno - this is not meant as a flame, but more of a reality check. Maybe it's different on the west coast, but I am just a spectator of the idiotic riceboy phenomenon that has swept over my part of the country - and it is really hard to take many of these guys seriously. Moreover, their wild claims of 12 second civic's with a shift nob and a couple G-reddy stickers makes all realistic car (both import and domestic) enthusiasts absolutely sick.

Sorry to ramble/rant, but if you can get an Integra/Civic/whatever, to run reliable 11's on a budget and drive to and from the track, then more power to you and I respect you and your car.

E

------------------
1991 5.0 LX Coupe -37,800 miles

13.17 @ 106.14 mph w/ 2.138 60'

Pro-Charger D-1SC on the way!!!

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02-17-2001, 07:36 PM	#21
inferno The Instigator Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: So Cal and Houston Posts: 764	Hey dinomite, how much money does it take to make a an american car go faster than 8.7 and what kind of mods? I imagine a blower with lots of boost, a built engine and fuel system, a full race suspension, some form of weight reduction and in most cases slicks(a very few cars can claim 9's or better on "street tires" aka drag radials). I don't know how this discussion moved to full race cars. I don't see why people seem to have gotten offended by the fact that Cobra R's and Vipers have a tendency to break axles when you add sticky tires with stock horsepower. FWD vehicles were never designed with drag racing in mind, as you all are quick to point out(I also agree), but some of you need to give credit where credit is due. Unibody Honda's are on the verge of breaking into the 8's, and I am sure that tube frame cars will break into the 7's within the next two years. People have been racing RWD V8's for decades, but not until the late 80's has there been a surge for FWD imports. The industry is growing a lot faster than ever expected and the records keep falling. There are imports out there(not very many) that can put on slicks, run 10's at the strip, then put on street tires and go home. I know the number of domestics that can do this is a lot higher, but there is a lot more time and experience behind those vehicles and how to make power with them. There are a few FWD imports generating 4 digit power numbers which was thought to be impossible, and a number of single digit FWD cars. It is sad to see that quite a few people on this site still have the idea that there is no such thing as a fast import. Everytime I point out something, I get posts by several individuals trying to "prove me wrong" or dismiss my post. I also continue to see bashing posts in other threads that I haven't responded to. I know that the domestic crowd and the import crowd will never see completely eye to eye, but I would hope that there would be a lot more respect for each other. I am a moderator at an import website which I will not name, and I am sickened by the many import owners who talk down on domestics and I don't let people bash domestics. I think that all car enthusiasts whether driving a RWD V8 or a FWD I4 have a lot more in common than they are willing to admit. I probably am going to get a lot of flames for this post from individuals that are closed minded and not willing to accept FWD cars as gasp competition and don't want to accept the fact that there are some out there that can beat them.

02-17-2001, 09:13 PM	#22
dinomite The Dude Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 1,262	I'm not saying its impossible by any means, and yes, with further weight reduction in those tiny things, they will do better. My point is just that these people always tell me that imports/FWDs can be fast too, which is true, but even with the huge industry backing, its horribly more expensive than making a fast American.

02-17-2001, 10:46 PM	#23
inferno The Instigator Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: So Cal and Houston Posts: 764	Ok dynamite, I offer you another question instead; How much would it cost to get a 5.0 into the 11's including estimated cost of vehicle?

02-18-2001, 04:25 PM	#24
84stang83zephyr Guest Posts: n/a	Hey inferno, good points. The only thing i can really say is i find the rumble of an american V8 and the feel of thrust from a RWD car alot more satisfying than the wrapped out lawnmower sound and torquesteer of most imports. I can respect anything that hauls *** , but i just can't get into the whole import trend because most of the people who build up those cars also add several wings to the back, weird contorted body kits, stickers up the yin-yang and big 'ol fart cans. I saw a honda civic in hot rod magazine that ran i think 12's that just plain looked good (tastefully done) but i don't see many tastefully done hondas because of the whole "scene". When you get into track drag racing it's amazing what people can do with those cars, but me personally i don't care for them that much, and it sounds like many of the people on this site may feel the same. Just something to think about.

02-18-2001, 04:53 PM	#25
Unit 5302 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 5,246	1988 5.0 LX Hatch. $2500. A little worn out. Assuming standard everyday mods have been made 90% of the time they are. 2.5" cat back, cold air, bumped timing, shifter, underdrives, clutch adjuster, 190 fuel pump. Rebuild kit: $420 block machining: $150 Twisted Wedge heads: $900 E-303 cam: $160 1.6:1 RR: $200 TFS Intake: $400 AFPR: $100 65mm T/B: $180 cold air: $free 190lph pump: $free underdrives: $free 1 5/8" longtubes: $240 2.5" H for LT: $130 2.5" cat back: $free Pro 5.0: $free clutch adj: $free 4.10 gears: $400 installed subframes: $150 control arms: $300 clutch kit: $250 4cly springs: $20 NOS 100 shot: $400 Estimated ET (since you'd need a rollcage at the strip) mid/high 11's. Total cost: $6900. Reliable, streetable, 5.0. No stroker, no supercharger. Probably 11's w/o spray. Now, inferno I expect you can pick a FWD car (not replace the motor with anything other than stock IE: no GSR motors into a CRX otherwise we can change our **** to a 427 BB in a $800 4banger, and cut massive cost) and come somewhere close to that figure? Good luck.

02-19-2001, 01:52 AM	#26
inferno The Instigator Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: So Cal and Houston Posts: 764	Hey Unit, add in the "free" mods cost too and then I will do mine. Assume this car was owned by a little old lady so no previous mods. By the way, if it is that easy and cheap to get into the 11's, then why are most guys on this site 13 and 14 second cars?

02-19-2001, 12:44 PM	#27
Unit 5302 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 5,246	Premium for pristine 88 5.0 owned by old lady who has never abused it. $1500. Subtract engine rebuild, since it no longer needs it. -$570. Pristine 5.0 surcharge $930 Pro 5.0 $200 Catback $200 Coldair $140 Pullies $80 S.Adjust$90 190 LPH $90 I still don't see why you want me to add the price of parts that will almost certainly be found on these cars. It would be very possible to find a car with the rest of the full exhaust for the same price or a couple hundred more. Finding an 88 5.0 in pristine condition like you have described would most likely cost more and be nearly impossible to find in bone stock condition (there are many on this board who have searched, you can ask), but if you want a perfect 5.0, then I want a perfect mint condition ricer counterpart priced. You asked what it would cost to get a 5.0 into the 11's including purchasing the car. My estimate is accurate, since it's more than likely what is going to be found. Still, I'll mold it around your desires. The total is now $8630 for a mint condition never abused reliable 11 second machine. Remember, I don't wanna see some ragged out '87 CRX with a GSR motor. You can do this on the totally up and up. I want a pristine car using it's stock motor as a base for modification. The import must be reliable and you must be able to drive it away from the track on the streets. Otherwise you'll faint at the combo I'll throw your way. I'm sure I can get an 11 sec stang all together for $4000 total. As far as why are most stangers in the 13's and 14's, it's for the same reason most ricers are in the 15's and 16's. $$. That's still hugely expensive. Adding $4500 in mods to create a reliable 11 second machine is a lot for most 5.0 owners. Mismatched combo's, poor tuning, running heavy, lack of driving skill, and lack of suspension mods are what keeps the 5.0's in the 13-14 range. A well driven 88 5.0 with just freebies and maybe a set of underdrives can run 14.0, Mr 5.0 has seen one run 13.80 with freebies and optional 3.08's off the floor with NO mods (I wish I cold drive like that). Getting 2 seconds out of them can be accomplished with a good combo. If you don't beleive the combo is capable of that, please feel free to look at 88workcar's combo, from which most of the mods are based on. He's running real low 12's w/o spray (12.1 on slicks 12.3 on radial), I've made it a little more aggressive to compensate for the loss of slicks so that the T-5 could be kept. If the N20 was used, you can absolutely guarantee 11's.

02-19-2001, 02:19 PM	#28
fastang Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: santa ana ca Posts: 1,349	Inferno, Heres your written invitation. Please bring all of your friends with Hondas down to Carlsbad on March 24th. Turbos and all. I dont care if you have to trailer them, just bring them, turbos and all. Your's truly...Jesse. ------------------ 95GT B303 cam, 1.7 rockers, 65mm TB, 73mm MAF, milled heads, 355's K&N, off road pipes, pulleys, msd coil, 9mm wires, Tremec 3550, Pro5.0 shifter,10.5 Motorsport clutch, weld in subframe connectors

02-19-2001, 06:36 PM	#30
Unit 5302 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 5,246	I don't normally defend inferno, but he has a couple semi-valid points. The Mustang 5.0 is much faster than what it normally gets credit for. The coined phrase 5.slow has been used for a while. I'd be willing to bet it came from not to pick on any one, but the MAF 5.0 AOD cars that were bone stock, driven bad, and out of tune. I know of an 1995 GT manual convert that runs around here. He's downright dumb. He's got 1 5/8 headers, and straight pipes, a 65mm T/B, 3.73 gears, and a couple other minor mods. He wonders hopelessly why he doesn't get traction (can't drive), and why his ET's are in the high 14's low 15's. (mismatched) Tons of Stangers out there just don't do any research on what will really work well together, and how to make good ET. The same with the ricers. Also worth noting is the decreased fuel economy with my listed combo. With 2.02" intake valves, a cam, and 4.10's, I'd be suprised if a person would get much better than 20mpg on the hiway at 55 instead of 70mph where the stocker gets the best. The real benefit of the Mustang is to take it from 11's to 10's isn't much more expensive really. Ditch the N20, add a stroker and a supercharger, for another $3500 you can run 10's all day and still be streetable. To go to 9's is a hell of a lot more. No longer can the 5.0 HO block be used, but it also requires very very good stuff inside the motor. Even so, you can choose 9's, 8's, 7's, or 6's. Depending on how much $$ you have you can get whatever you want.

02-20-2001, 03:24 PM	#31
inferno The Instigator Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: So Cal and Houston Posts: 764	Okay, here is my 11 second daily driven car: Used 90 5 speed LS(non-vtec) Integra: 2500 Built bottom end(forged pistons, shot-peened factory rods, and block guard): 1500 installed Drag Gen 2 Turbo kit: 2000 ClutchMaster Stage 3 Clutch: 250 Apex Electric boost controller: 400 310 CC fuel injectors: 95 each Apex Super AFR (fuel controller): 400 Drop in high flow fuel pump: 250 MSD Full ignition set-up: 500 Eibach Drag spring set: 300 3" custom exhaust and high flow cat: 500 Nitto NT-450 tires: 54 each Total: 9196 500 dollars more for 11's. That isn't really that big of a difference now is it? This combo could run faster with DR or slicks(of course).

02-20-2001, 04:37 PM	#32
fastang Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: santa ana ca Posts: 1,349	Inferno, your forgetting about the cyl head and the intake setup. And your not going to run 11's in a Honda with the stock computer setup are you? What about your transmission? Will the stocker with a clutch last with 11 second passes? I think your going to need around 20 grand to do it right. ------------------ 95GT B303 cam, 1.7 rockers, 65mm TB, 73mm MAF, milled heads, 355's K&N, off road pipes, pulleys, msd coil, 9mm wires, Tremec 3550, Pro5.0 shifter,10.5 Motorsport clutch, weld in subframe connectors

02-20-2001, 04:56 PM	#33
Unit 5302 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 5,246	I wouldn't be talking too big about the tranny, I'm relying on the stock T-5 to hold 11's. With the shifter and as long as you're not running slicks, it should, but damn, I'm pushing it. As far as the lack of intake, yeah, I see that along with no head mods, but I don't know how much they can do. Remember too, my combo is based on a super nice older 5.0, hehe, cause inferno wanted a granny driven 5.0. I'm pretty sure my original estimate would be much more accurate at $6900, although asking a beaten T-5 to hold 11's is probably a bit much.

02-21-2001, 01:41 AM	#34
inferno The Instigator Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: So Cal and Houston Posts: 764	Add another 400 bucks to my price for valves. That is all else that is needed. And yes that is with a stock computer. The Apex AFR addresses the fuel needs and the MSD ignition provides the spark and timing needed. And about the tranny, it is strong enough to hold 9 second passes or faster(no B-series trannies have made it to the 8's.....yet). The AEM drag Civic is using a stock Prelude transmission and it is running 8's. So 900 more than your setup....I have another build-up that would be a little cheaper, but it still isn't cheaper than the 11 sec stang. Hey Unit, you think those stock tires will make an 11 second pass?? That is why I included tires in my 11 second "cheap" build-up.

02-21-2001, 01:48 AM	#35
inferno The Instigator Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: So Cal and Houston Posts: 764	Hey, Fastang, you just made my price cheaper by 300 bucks. My set-up is only 600 more expensive. I just remembered about the computer that I want to get....The Apex Power FC. It sells for about 800 bucks and that means I can take off the MSD ignition, the Super AFR, and the Boost controller and add spark plugs and 8.5mm wire for 200. I don't know why I didn't think about that since I am planning on getting one

02-21-2001, 01:55 AM	#36
97snakedriver Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Blacksburg, VA Posts: 1,526	Heard it referenced on PH, but what is a block guard exactly?

02-21-2001, 08:27 AM	#37
Jaydee Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Conn. Posts: 220	Two questions: How does a computor upgrade negate the need for the MSD ignition? Does it unleash some hidden capability in the stock setup? I am also still having a hard time believing that the stock FWD drive train (especially on a 10+ year old car), can withstand repeated hard launches without spitting parts all over the place. ------------------ 1965 K code coupe - numbers matching - restoration ongoing. 1987 LX notch, stock heads and intake, 3.55's and typical bolt on's 13.89@100.25

02-21-2001, 09:41 AM	#38
Unit 5302 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 5,246	I don't know of any 5.0 that you could get with the original Goodyear Eagle 225/60 VR15's. They only last about 20xxx miles on average. No problems with quality stock sized radials, you can go 245 easy. I haven't included a tune up budget, so I've left out those prices. That stuff is routine maintanence. If your Integra needs the DR's then it needs them. The Stang doesn't (although it would benefit). Hehehe, now my personal budget build. 1987 LX Hatch, 4 banger. $800 Medium riser 427 dual quad. free Borg warner T-10. free 8.8" rear $200 3.73's $200 everything else, what maybe $2k? Hehe, total $3200?

02-21-2001, 09:48 AM	#39
Jaydee Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Conn. Posts: 220	Hey Unit, see if you can find another 427 for free - if so I'll take it. It just may be worth butchering up the ol' 65 K code to fit it in

02-21-2001, 10:03 AM	#40
302 LX Eric or '331 LX Eric' Join Date: Jan 1999 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 2,142	If it is so easy and so cheap to get a 4-banger Integra into the 11's, then why do nearly all them at the track run 15's & 16's? I have been to a test & tune night at my local track, where a 100+ car field of imports were present (the track didn't advertise to the rest of us that it was an import night! ) Anyways, my buddy and I wittnessed countless 16 second passes - fart pipes, stickers, wings, stereos, TVs and all! There was a Prelude that was gutted, had a rollcage, slicks, and a real "pretty" engine that couldn't even go lower than 13.5's. Of course all the rice boys were drooling over his Prelude like it was some Pro-5.0 car. Inferno - this is not meant as a flame, but more of a reality check. Maybe it's different on the west coast, but I am just a spectator of the idiotic riceboy phenomenon that has swept over my part of the country - and it is really hard to take many of these guys seriously. Moreover, their wild claims of 12 second civic's with a shift nob and a couple G-reddy stickers makes all realistic car (both import and domestic) enthusiasts absolutely sick. Sorry to ramble/rant, but if you can get an Integra/Civic/whatever, to run reliable 11's on a budget and drive to and from the track, then more power to you and I respect you and your car. E ------------------ 1991 5.0 LX Coupe -37,800 miles 13.17 @ 106.14 mph w/ 2.138 60' Pro-Charger D-1SC on the way!!!