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Sky, I need your help with a post about your car.
Theres a post at ClubSi called "Big Block Chevelle goes down" in the Si vs all forum. Its about a 306 beating a Chevelle. Anyway Im in a small disagreement about the validity of your dyno numbers and the possiblity of a built 306 with AFR 185's and a Holley intake hitting 360 rwhp.
What exactly were your dyno numbers and do you have the sheet? If you could please post them over there I would appreciate it. ------------------ 95GT B303 cam, 1.7 rockers, 65mm TB, milled heads, 355's K&N, BBK Longtubes, Flowmaster cat back, pulleys, msd coil, 9mm wires, Tremec 3550, Pro5.0 shifter,10.5 Motorsport clutch, FMS aluminum driveshaft, weld in subframe connectors |
If those are box stock pieces, no way. 360 rwhp is a lot of power...that's about 420 at the crank. You won't get that out of a 306, even if you port the crap out of them. You will need a 331 or 347 to get that.
I may be wrong, if I am, it won't be the first time, but I will stand my ground on this one. ------------------ Dustin 89 Saleen GT Sport,428 rwhp,TFS Street Heat Intake,TFS TW Heads,TFS #2 cam,BD-11A 9 psi,Crane 1.6 rr's,BBK 70mm TB,Pro-M 80mm MAF,MSD 6BTM, FMS 9mm wires,BBK longtubes,BBK Short H-pipe,American Thunder cat back,3.55's 12.3@119 |
It made 332rwhp and 350.5rwtq. The Ls1 I raced and beat at carlsbad made 333rwhp I believe. I do have the sheets and I can scan them if u like. Showw me the thread, I'll jump over there too.
Skyler ------------------ -1989 Saleen Mustang #406- TFS TW Heads, E-303, Edelbrock intake, 70mm TB, 73mm MAF, 24lb injectors, 1 5/8 shorties, Off Road H, 3 Chamber flows, Jaz Race seats, Back seat removed, sub-frames, Roll Cage, and a 80 shot of N20. 12.54@107.4 Motor 1.69 60' |
they made 421hp out of a stock 302 shortblock, & afr185 heads (milled) tfs r intake & a nasty roller cam. torque was at 380 or somethin
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That would have to be one built to the gills 302. On a Dynojet no less. Sounds a little hard to swallow. And Sky, I think you need to have your car dynoed again.
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If your car weighs 3500 and you are goin' 107 that's about 300rwhp and right around 350fwhp. That's if the car weighs that much which is one heavy fox if it's not a vert so the power figures will probably even be less in reality. Dyno numbers mean nothing anyway I've seen cars making 500fwhp only go in the 12's. Hp means nothing if you can't drive.
Mustangs making roughly 330rwhp around 3300lbs usually will mph in the low 11x from what I've seen. ------------------ 351w, tremec trans Best N/A Pass 11.44@120 Best Nitrous Pass 10.62@132 |
Im sorry, but I can drive. Ive yet to see anyone pull a 12.5 out of a 107mph trap speed.
I agree also that my MPH doesnt refelct 332rwhp. But look at GT-Hunter on this site he has 320rwhp and is trapping 106. The saleen is heavier, 3200lbs stock I believe, and I have a full roll cage and subframes, which probably added more weight than the race seats. I raced a LS1 that dynoed 333rwhp and it trapped 108 to my 107.4. So I don't know. But I want to get to a dyno jet. Skyler ------------------ -1989 Saleen Mustang #406- TFS TW Heads, E-303, Edelbrock intake, 70mm TB, 73mm MAF, 24lb injectors, 1 5/8 shorties, Off Road H, 3 Chamber flows, Jaz Race seats, Back seat removed, sub-frames, Roll Cage, and a 80 shot of N20. 12.54@107.4 Motor [b][i]332RWHP, 350rwtq[b][i] |
Dustin, werent you the one that posted the Anderson link where the 306 with TFS heads and the Holley intake made exactly 360 rwhp on a chassis dyno? I agree its defintely not the norm.
Sky, The post is at www.ClubSi.com Look under the "Si vs All" forum and clik on the thread called Big Block Chevelle goes down or something like that. Its posted by a guy called Guffinator. Theres a lot of Mustang owners over there now. In fact two of the moderators of the forum drive mustangs http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/biggrin.gif I thought that you hit 340 something hp sky. When I read that you hit 332 I went back over there and corrected myself. Still damn impressive numbers and I would still like you to post the sheet if its not a pain in your *** . Im going to try to post a link to the thread but Im not great at it so if it doesnt work just go there the old fashioned way http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/smile.gif |
Ok here goes,
http://forums.clubsi.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/011421.html |
fastang
I stand corrected http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/biggrin.gif For some wierd reason, I always thought those were FWHP....lol But look at who did the tuning. One of the performance Gods. So it can be done, but it is rare. ------------------ Dustin 89 Saleen GT Sport,428 rwhp,TFS Street Heat Intake,TFS TW Heads,TFS #2 cam,BD-11A 9 psi,Crane 1.6 rr's,BBK 70mm TB,Pro-M 80mm MAF,MSD 6BTM, FMS 9mm wires,BBK longtubes,BBK Short H-pipe,American Thunder cat back,3.55's 12.3@119 |
Skyman,
I wasn't implying that you couldn't drive. You're using all that have right now. I was just saying a lot of people get hung up on dyno numbers and they really don't mean a thing.(to me anyway) Your car runs right where it should for your mods. When I had a 302 I went about the same as you 12.5x's@108/109 with a comparable set-up. |
Dyno numbers mean everything. You will never see the low times without the dyno numbers.
------------------ Dustin 89 Saleen GT Sport,428 rwhp,TFS Street Heat Intake,TFS TW Heads,TFS #2 cam,BD-11A 9 psi,Crane 1.6 rr's,BBK 70mm TB,Pro-M 80mm MAF,MSD 6BTM, FMS 9mm wires,BBK longtubes,BBK Short H-pipe,American Thunder cat back,3.55's 12.3@119 |
It's all about the total combo. Horse power is nothing without a properly set up car. I ran 13.50 at 107 mph at 3000ft elevation. That's a lot of horsepower, but with my crappy traction it didn't mean jack. A car with less power and more traction could easily toast me. I think we all get too hung up on horsepower.
------------------ 92 GT, 4:10 gears, centerforce clutch, 6# powerdyne blower, bbk h-pipe, flowmasters |
I find it hard to believe (not impossible I guess) for a 306 w/ heads and intake to make 360 rwhp (maybe he was talking rwtq???). Oh well, even if it isn't true.....it's only a little fib, right? http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/biggrin.gif
------------------ '90 LX 5.0;12K original miles (no sh*&);3.55 gears; March pulleys;Edelbrock Performer Heads;BBK 1 5/8" equal length shorties;MSD 6AL ignition w/ blaster 2 coil;FMS E303 cam;Pro-M 75mm MAF;BBK 70mm TB; Eibach drag-launch spring kit;Southside welded subs;K&N cone filter charger;Hurst shifter;Cervini's 3" turbo hood;A/C delete; gutted cats;2 chamber Flomasters;Corbeau racing seats;FMS 30# injectors;JMS chip; Holley 190lb fp;TFS track heat Intake (12.299 @ 113 - 1.78 60') |
SaleenGTS
Dyno numbers only prove how fast a car *should/could* be. Which means nothing if the rest of the car isn't working. I make probably 50 rwhp less then you yet I mph the same I wonder why? I've gone 11.73@123 on a bfg drag radial on motor. Best mph on a slick is 120 on motor since they don't spin I lose mph on a good tire. I don't care if someone is making 500 rwhp if the car isn't putting it down it could get beat by a car making 300rwhp thats working. Dyno numbers are good for bench racing and giving you an idication of whats *possible* that's about it IMO...which no one has to agree with. Dyno tuning doesn't fall into that comment. ------------------ 351w, tremec trans Best N/A Pass 11.44@120 Best Nitrous Pass 10.62@132 |
87vert...easy now, all I was saying is that you need to have the horsepower to get the low times. You won't see a 300 rwhp mustang turn 10's. Point proven.
------------------ Dustin 89 Saleen GT Sport,428 rwhp,TFS Street Heat Intake,TFS TW Heads,TFS #2 cam,BD-11A 9 psi,Crane 1.6 rr's,BBK 70mm TB,Pro-M 80mm MAF,MSD 6BTM, FMS 9mm wires,BBK longtubes,BBK Short H-pipe,American Thunder cat back,3.55's 12.3@119 |
360 rwhp from a 302 is doable. There was a guy on the Corral that had ported TFS heads, a Holley intake, custom cam, that was turning 365 rwhp or something like that? It's all in the combination...for all we know it could be a 12:1 compression motor with a solid cam in it. Need more info.
------------------ '91 LX Hatch, 17 ROH ZR6's, lowered, 3.73's, offroad H pipe, SN Cobra cat-back, ASP pullies, 14° timing, C&L 76mm MAF, 170A 3G, B&M Ripper on a T5 Best ET: 14.593 Best MPH: 95.72 (75°, 75% hum., 2200') 1991 LX Hatch 5.0L |
And you won't see a car with say...428rwhp go ohh low 11's high 10's like it *could* with a car that's properly set-up...point proven. I didn't want to go there..BUT you made me http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/smile.gif
This coin has two sides I guess we just look at it differntly and that is fine. I was just stating my own opinions. I do realize a car can't go 10's with only 300rwhp. http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/wink.gif What was this post about anyway?!? LOL Sorry to side track your post fastang |
87vert, I dont care if you go off topic, talk about whatever you guys want http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/biggrin.gif
JonnyK, The motor in question isnt even a 302, its a 306 with higher compression pistons, AFR 185's and a Holley itake. I still say its very possible, just not the norm. Everyone please at least click the link and read the post http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/smile.gif ------------------ 95GT B303 cam, 1.7 rockers, 65mm TB, milled heads, 355's K&N, BBK Longtubes, Flowmaster cat back, pulleys, msd coil, 9mm wires, Tremec 3550, Pro5.0 shifter,10.5 Motorsport clutch, FMS aluminum driveshaft, weld in subframe connectors |
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Secondly, my 12.3 was run on street tires. I have been through 3 clutches in the last 3 months, so slicks are out of the question for now. I love the raw acceleration. Your point proven just backed up my theory, and I thank you for that. Once again, all I was saying is that more hp=lower et's. http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/biggrin.gif ------------------ Dustin 89 Saleen GT Sport,428 rwhp,TFS Street Heat Intake,TFS TW Heads,TFS #2 cam,BD-11A 9 psi,Crane 1.6 rr's,BBK 70mm TB,Pro-M 80mm MAF,MSD 6BTM, FMS 9mm wires,BBK longtubes,BBK Short H-pipe,American Thunder cat back,3.55's 12.3@119 |
I Must Correct you! 8850 has run 10's with 300rwhp!! (2400lb race weight) Haha. We don't have to get all technical.
We all know it takes HP+Traction to get low ETS's, and just HP to get high MPH's. I will check that thread and scan my sheet tomrrow. Skyler ------------------ -1989 Saleen Mustang #406- TFS TW Heads, E-303, Edelbrock intake, 70mm TB, 73mm MAF, 24lb injectors, 1 5/8 shorties, Off Road H, 3 Chamber flows, Jaz Race seats, Back seat removed, sub-frames, Roll Cage, and a 80 shot of N20. 12.54@107.4 Motor [b][i]332RWHP, 350rwtq[b][i] |
SaleenGTS,
What kind of clutch are you using? I've been going through the same thing. I am using a star clutch(spec) right now and love it. I have a bunch of hard slick tire passes on it both in the 10's and 11's. I have a stage 3 carbon clutch. If you're intrested I'll dig up the number for you. The pedal effort is less then a motorsport and has about 300psi more clamping force. SPEC rates it over 600hp and 700ft lbs. The release is also quicker then anything I've used. I only had about 30 passes on a motorsport and it died the first time I made any good spray passes. |
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Ok here is my sheet... http://www.ojaipcpros.com/dynosheet.JPG
Skyler ------------------ -1989 Saleen Mustang #406- TFS TW Heads, E-303, Edelbrock intake, 70mm TB, 73mm MAF, 24lb injectors, 1 5/8 shorties, Off Road H, 3 Chamber flows, Jaz Race seats, Back seat removed, sub-frames, Roll Cage, and a 80 shot of N20. 12.54@107.4 Motor [b][i]332RWHP, 350rwtq[b][i] |
If that doesnt look good I'll scan it again
------------------ -1989 Saleen Mustang #406- TFS TW Heads, E-303, Edelbrock intake, 70mm TB, 73mm MAF, 24lb injectors, 1 5/8 shorties, Off Road H, 3 Chamber flows, Jaz Race seats, Back seat removed, sub-frames, Roll Cage, and a 80 shot of N20. 12.54@107.4 Motor 332RWHP, 350rwtq |
My 270 rwhp got me 12.80's @ 111 mph. Race weight is about exactly 3000 lbs. I guess I can drive pretty decent.
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Sky, you should really weigh your car. You can easily do it on the freeway at the truck weigh stations for free. Then you would have a pretty good idea if the dyno is off or not. It very well might not be, but 330 Mustang dyno horsepower is about 360 on a Dynojet. And I know from all the crap you heard from your post on the Corral, that that number is pretty high for a stock shortblock 302 with off the shelf bolt-ons.
I imagine you should have a race weight of 3600 or so pounds. |
Rob,
Your mph is right on the money. If you're making 270rwhp that gives you right around 320fwhp if you figure 15% for driveline loss. I used one of the handy dandy calculators on this site and if you figure a 3000lb race weight it comes up with 12.30@110 with 320 hp. Was that 270 before or after the valve guide fix? We need to get a clutch and slicks on that car of yours http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/wink.gif If you don't have much going on Saturday let me know. A few of us locals are getting together up in Utica for a grill out. I may hit Lapeer first thing in the morning and make a pass on a 210 shot and see what happens.(I'm bringing a basket to put the broken parts in lol) Not sure how much more those hypers will take.... ------------------ 351w, tremec trans Best N/A Pass 11.44@120 Best Nitrous Pass 10.62@132 |
My race wieght should be around 3600, Sky's should be much lower. It has no back seat and lightweight racing front seats with no ac and aluminum heads. Its a lot lighter than your average fox.
Can someone please explain to me what a mustang dyno is? ------------------ 95GT B303 cam, 1.7 rockers, 65mm TB, milled heads, 355's K&N, BBK Longtubes, Flowmaster cat back, pulleys, msd coil, 9mm wires, Tremec 3550, Pro5.0 shifter,10.5 Motorsport clutch, FMS aluminum driveshaft, weld in subframe connectors |
87Vert, That was before the POS valve guide fix. It seems to run much better now, but the dyno will only tell.
I am moving this weekend as well. Then I can get the approval from congress (the wife) to do the clutch and tires. I'll hollar at ya. |
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