Which Supercharger to buy???
 

I just bought a 00 Saleen S281 Speedster. I want to add a supercharger in the Spring. Which should I buy. Here is my situation: I don't want to spend more than $4000 to buy the kit. I want to get close to 400 hp. I want a supercharger from a reputable company with proven products. Don't want to cause damage to the engine. I am not a "racer" , but I don't want a Vette to challenge me. I will have a professional speed shop install it. So far, the Paxton Novi 1000 and the S/Q Vortech are my favorites. Should I buy the stage II Saleen Blower kit??? How much should I spend? Where should I buy from? Looking for suggestions.

The Vortech KICKS $HIT!! I have never heard anything bad about them. However, you would be just fine with a Vortech S-Trim unless they are exactly the same. A buddy of mine went 10.7's@126MPH with the regular S-trim.

Overall though I would still get a TURBO KIT!!! Cartech for me Baby!!!

I am all for PRocharger, but I am not current on 4.6 blowers....I know that procharger blows the comp away with the 5.0's. The vortech with the aftercooler is a awesome setup too....you could get that with a abtercooler for about 4500$$

howabout a twin screw
http://images.fotki.com/free/97aa/1/...Charger-or.jpg

While you probably won't see 400hp, I would go for a roots style blower. They're dependable on a near stock setup and have great torque for stoplight "altercations". They sell for around 4 grand and it also gets you a new intake ... ;)

If you positively must have the power at all costs, go procharger with a 3 core intercooler... just be prepared for tuning costs to get the most out of it...

Depends on what you want the 'increased power' for. I would say Vortech for upper end RPM runs. Or Saleen Roots style for the stoplight races like Hammer said.

Definately look into a turbo/twin turbo setup also.

Twin Turbos
 

I don't have any information on Turbos yet. What's the main difference between a turbo and a Supercharger? I am receving many replies that a Turbo would be better... I would just be interested in 2 things: Resale value of the Saleen and possible races from the stoplight only.
How much do turbos cost and what is the avg time to install? So far, the roots style blower is looking most attractive to me. It keeps the Saleen integrity for resale and is plenty fast.
I don't race the car or run it too hard....often, but just in case; I don't want some Camaro or Vette (stock) to blow past me...Ya know?

Turbo's and Superchargers do the exact same thing....pros and cons for both.

The main difference is that Turbo's run off of your exhaust and blowers run off of your crank. Superchargers are more instant boost than turbo's. Torbo's have that notorious "turbo lag"

With turbo's you will also have to alter your exhaust, buy differend headers, etc...

You will also have to buy a intercooler whereas with a blower you don't HAVE TO, but you can.

I hope that answered your question.

One word Procharger. They rock. Thats what Im gonna get in a couple months.

"The main difference is that Turbo's run off of your exhaust and blowers run off of your crank. Superchargers are more instant boost than turbo's. Torbo's have that notorious "turbo lag"

With turbo's you will also have to alter your exhaust, buy differend headers, etc...

You will also have to buy a intercooler whereas with a blower you don't HAVE TO, but you can."

This is definitely not coming from a person with experience having a Turbo V8. I have a Turbo 4.6 and have had one since August. It is awesome and if he can swing the money, it would definitely be the best choice. I have a TDC Stage II kit and is tons faster at the same boost level than my V2 S-trim ever was. As far as turbo lag, it is minimal at best with a V8. I see full boost by 3400 rpms running a T-76 whether it's 5 psi or 15 psi. That is alot sooner than 8 psi from the Vortech at 6K. If you run a T-66 or 60-1, you will see boost alot sooner. We can get into Hybrids & Ceramic bearings which impacts spool time, but that's another story. Also the TDC kits come 100% complete with everything.

http://www.turbodrivenconcepts.com/feature.html
http://www.turbodrivenconcepts.com/2001catalog.pdf

Turbo 4.6

My vote is Procharger! I had a friend that ran 17psi on the intake/21 at the discharge on super unleaded and 10 degrees initial timing. The 3 row intercooler helps...cools to about 25 degrees above ambient. He was using a D-1. His trap speed was claimed to be 123 mph with a STOCK long block and shorty headers.

Because of my friend's Procharged 5.0, I sold my KB blower and made the change.

Turbo's put out a lot more tourque then a supercharger does. Like Turbo99 said "Lag is minimal" it would give the tires a chance to brace themselves for about an extra 200 lbs of tourque in 2 seconds! You don't have to deal with belts, to change power just the turn of a dial or press of a button on the FLY!!

Typically, (for example) 10PSI turbo = 14-15 SUPERCHARGER
You also have to spin the **** out of a supercharger to get real big power for a given unit.

New headers come with the kit, install time is longer.

PLus, would you want all that stress on your crank??

I hear ya Turbo99GT, gotta love the twin turbo! Yes turbos have alot going for them, and are really awesome. I am a turbo man, but I also love the superchargers. The thing is 00SlvrSleen wants to spend around $4000. I do not know of any turbo kits for the modulars that are that cheap. TDC's single turbo kit is around 4k, but is not as promising. In his case i'd recommend a centrifugal supercharger. Most people I know that got a roots style kit had ended up selling it later on. The P1SC is a monster and has a unique design. The Vortech is reliable, and has a good street reputation. Also Saleen used Vortechs in their older cars. For 4 grand you could get a good supercharger and not be disappointed. But FYI, for about 1500 more you could get an awesome twin turbo kit from Incon. In an article I read they had used a stock 2000 S281. After the kit, the car produced on the dyno: 399hp @ 4500 and 471 tq @4300. The wastegate was set at 7 psi. Heres the beauty of it: because of the big modular heads, the turbos cant be seen from above, very stealthy. The reason why the kit is so expensive is it comes with a Griggs racing tubular K-member and coil overs. Love the turbos.

whipple twin screw...similar to roots...testing sig

Closer to deciding...
 

The replies are great!!! I am definitely NOT interested in Turbos for the car. Too expensive and complicated for what I want.
I can get a Paxon NOVI 1000 complete kit for $2800. I could buy the Saleen Roots Style (stage II) blower kit with aftercooler for $3300. I took a ride in a Saleen S281 with a S-Trim Vortech and the G-Force of the acceleration was incredible.
Removing turbos from the equation (due to cost and tuning) which supercharger is recommended for the occassional stoplight "altercation"... Replies are much appreciated. I am still learning the "motor lingo"...Thanks!

Turbo99gt

That was a harsh first sentence....what a punk. I believe I stated the facts.....Turbos have to build exhaust pressure before getting high boost.....right? Roots style blowers are instant. Centrifugal are more like a Turbo because they have to spin up before max boost is made. Given the Turbo's make more boost sooner than a Centrifugal, but not a roots....I guess I should have re-phrased what blower I was talking about. Everything else I stated about exhaust and the intercooler is 100% true.

I hope you weren't trying to flame me because if you were, you basically stuck your foot in your mouth.

I wasn't trying to be harsh. I was stating a fact that you don't have first hand experience with Turbo V8s. I have a problem with people providing false information to other people based on THEORY and not FACT. There is a difference. There are so many variables that impact spool time that it is not worth getting into. Centrifugals are nothing like turbos. I have had both and would know. Turbos work off load and centrifugals work off of engine rpm. As far as the intercooler is concerned, it definitely allows you make more power, run more timing, and run a safer setup. Also the TDC kit comes 100% complete with the exhaust system, Spearco Intercooler, boost controller and a ton of other parts. In all honesty, people with no experience with the 4.6 market should leave the topic alone.

00SlvrSleen,
Since you want a blower, the answer depends on what you plan to do going forward. If you get a Saleen blower, it will be great right up until the time you run into a few centrifugal blown GTs and get beaten badly. I understand that Kenne Bell is coming out with a nice screw type blower for the 4.6 which should be nice. You might want to wait until it comes out.

I never said I have had no experience with the 4.6's, I just said that I am not as familiar with them as I am with 5.0's.

Going back to the reply you initally corrected me on....I can't see anything wrong with that, blowers DO run off of exhaust and blowerd DO run off of the crank. With Turbo's you DO need different headers, and you DO need a intercooler, with a blower you DO NOT need different headers or a intercooler. Tell me I am wrong there. I mean come on, talk about nit-picking, you must be a woman ha ha ha j/k

I think everyone here is trying to help you by giving you their own opinion (which is probably biased). I will say this, no matter what kit you buy, you will definitely enjoy the power increase. Vortech, Paxton, Procharger, Kenne Bell, etc. are all real good kits. I don't think you will hear many complaints of quality from anyone who owns any of these. What you do need to worry about, if anything, is are you going to want to upgrade after someone with another blown stang or vette blows you off? Probably. I personally think the roots style superchargers are real cool (almost instant full boost), but can the tires hold up from a stop? (I don't know). I would suggest a centrifugal (Vortech, Paxton or Procharger).
For your other issue with resale value, your car is only going to be worth what someone else is willing to pay for it. If you add any supercharger kit, you will have a more difficult time selling it because now you are limiting yourself to those who want that specific model. If I saw two Saleen's for sale, 1 stock and the other modified, I would pick the stock one anyday. Just my opinions on all of this.

If a little is good, more is better, and too much is just enough.....what's too much?
 

Unfortunately, no one ask one really good question. Where do you want you HP&TQ peak to be at? Off idle, mid-range, or high end?

Off idle, I'd go with the Saleen unit. They're somewhat reliable, and they make good power for what they are, but if you're spending the money anyway, skip on the Saleen and go with a Whipple.

Mid-range, Whipplecharger. Makes real good usable power throughout the whole RPM range, but peak somewhere near 4500. The only problem I have with the "roots" blowers is that the car can get really hard to control at the lower RPM range. Throttle response is immediate and at times way too much. In all it's probably the best overall unit for the street.

High end, Vortech, Paxton, ProCharger are all basically the same thing in a different package. they lack somewhat on the bottom end of the RPM range, and can come on too strong with increased psi. With a base unit, you shouldn't see over 9-11psi. With the right intake, the base centerfugal blower will have enough mid-range to hang with the "roots" and as you climb in the RPM'syou'll leave the "roots" gasping for air. The beauty of these units is that the higher you go in the RPMs the more boost you get, in generic terms.


Oh, and don't be fooled by the kit price. That does not include installation. If I had known that I would have gone with a turbo set-up myself. I have a Vortech S-trim with Aftercooler and I see 14psi@6000, and the car is still making power all the way to 6500 when I run out of knuts. I am currently rebuilding the motor to withstand going to 7500rpms every once in a while. I still don't know if I'll take it there, but just in case......

Also, no matter what you go with, for peace of mind and added security, make sure that you go intercooled, or aftercooled. You'll thank yourself later.

Ok, I think I've ran my mouth long enough. Hope this helps out some. Later.

I didn't know we had so many turbo people on here. I'm reading some of the posts and someone keeps bring in the different headers for a turbo as being the extra expense. Who buys a supercharger and doesn't add headers and an h-pipe to take full advantage of it. Quit using that has an excuse for why turbos are more expensive. Never had a supercharged mustang, but I would be willing to bet that by the time you factory in a complete turbo system against a supercharger, headers, and h-pipe the costs for both would be pretty close.

I know you don't have to buy those things and don't go comparing the cheapest supercharger and parts you can find so that you can say a supercharger is less expensive. Just trying to make a point, no flames intended.

Also, on my little T04, I've got full boost by 2200 rpm. How does that compare with a roots style blower? If a roots comes in any faster, I bet you couldn't tell it by the seat of your pants.

ProCharger !!!!!!!!!!!!!!:)

Well, that is a good point, but most of us already have the exhaust before we buy a poweradder....I did, usually when you start you don't hink about a poweradder so you start at the right place....exhause, gears, etc....I see your point though. Here is what a typical blower costs.

S-Trim $3200 8-14 psi +/- 350-450hp
Procharger $3100 14 psi +/- 450 hp (includes Intercooler)
Ignition $500
Headers $200
H-pipe $120


$4020



Here is the kit for a Turbo
TDK $3995 +/- 350hp (Includes headers and X-Pipe and Intercooler)
Ignition $500

$4495

IMO that isn't a very good competetive price, for the amount of horsepower differences. TDK also has a 500 hp kit for $4500 but then we are talking a rebuild, and that isn't what I am talking about.....but I am bias I guess :D

I do see your point though

Hey Dustin, that's a good cost breakdown...should also add that turbos typically cost more to install than superchargers.

With that said, I LIKE turbos, but after applying the $$$/hp ratio, the benefits of the turbo kit weren't enough to justify the incremental cost...that's just me.

How about the Cartech Sleeper Kit!

Horsepower levels from 400 hp to 750 hp.

The CarTech Street Sleeper Kit includes the following:

Garrett T04 Turbo
4 into 1 Turbo Header
3" Downpipe
Crossover Tube
Y-Pipe
Air Filter
Fuel Management Unit
Hi-pressure Booster Pump
Choice of Low or Front Mounted Intercooler
Racing Wastegate with Ultra Hi-Temp Diaphragm
Cartech Boost Gauge
Gauge Mount

$3875.00

+ Ignition $500

$4375 potentially making a lot more power.

You are not shredding belts ethier! Also no crank stress!

Up the boost with the push of a button!

What PSI are you running on that sucker?? Any dyno sheets??

BTW, not to really start an argument but 8PSI on a turbo kit will kick the **** out of 8PSI from a SCharger!

Not a personal flame in any way, but I have a hard time agreeing with the statements :)

The Cartech kit may produce up to 700 hp, but the Procharcher P1SC is claimed to make up to 800 hp and is also smog legal (I don't believe the Cartech is). This a hollow argument because you aren't going to make this kind of power without a really expensive long block.

Let's not forget the difference in installation cost.

Yeah, it's more difficult to change the boost level with a blower. Sure, blowers cause crank stress. But in fairness, turbos have challenges of their own. For example, underhood heat -- isn't that why thermal wrapping has to be done either on the turbo and/or plug wires? What about oil coking caused by the heat of the turbo?

My point is that we just can't be pointing out the shortcomings of one type of power adder without fairly comparing the shortcomings of the other.

As I said, I LIKE turbos (My wife has a Volvo T-5), but I just didn't want to spend the additional $$$ on the turbo kit. Based on the cost info you provided, the Cartech is likely to exceed $5k with installation. My 5.0 kit cost $4k with upgrades and installation, and is smog legal.

Both superchargers and turbos can make a LOT of power...that should not even be a point of contention. Ultimately, I believe it depends on where you want your power, what stress you are willing to put on the engine, and what your personal preference is.

When it comes down to the nitty gritty, both forms of forced induction cost about the same. The turbo kits have a higher price because they are a kit, and include much more than the turbo(s), intercooler, headers. These other parts of the kit vary between companies. Usually a complete fuel system setup is included: meaning new pump, injectors etc. Usually an bigger MAF meter, plug wires, calibrated comp chip etc. I don't know of many superchargers that give you half of that stuff in their kit.

Both have their advantages and disadvantages, NOTHING IS A FREE LUNCH. I admit that superchargers are less hassle installing, and are easier to deal with. You want to step up performance, just change the pulley. I like turbos because the boost is only there when I want it, I can run the stock, or small camshaft which is good for the street. Also, at a light the other person has no idea I have a pair of turbos under the hood, whereas usually you can hear the whine of a supercharger. There are many other reasons, but I will cut this list short for now. Everyone is entitled to their own choice.

BTW just to add some fuel to the fire: There are more turbocharged race cars than supercharged; and i'm not talking just Ford or domestic. Think about that one;)

The reason I brought up the turbo is because on the 4.6, it makes a ton of power. I had a V2 S-trim and both @ 12 psi wouldn't be a race. I made more with less than 6 psi than any centrifugal blower would have made at 8 psi & some @ 12 psi. Full boost comes in at about 3,000 rpms sooner and the torque amount & curve is tons better. Sure a P-1SC was good for 800 hp, but you will be spinning the crap out of it and dealing with belt slip and it will have a short life.
The TDC kit is well thoughtout and is made with the best parts available. I haven't run into any of the problems mentioned above with the turbo system after 4 months and much track use.

I tossed my blower because everyone with a 4.6 has one and I wasn't getting anywhere fast. With the turbo system, I blew past all of my friends with blowers and stock engines. If you are dead set on getting a blower, I would get a D-1SC because you will have much more room to grow. I don't mind dealing with the any small problems that might occur because the benefits have been unreal. The car has been faster than most people would believe and is dead silent at idle and cruising.

Right now only 6 lbs because I've had an intermittent overheating problem. Last week the headgasket finally let go. Being installed; new 60-1 turbo, dart jrs, replacement of factory passenger side header with 1 5/8" mac header, and adjustable boost control. Was trying for a larger downpipe to, but appears it's not worth the effort.

As soon as everythings installed, I'm headed to the dyno and for some custom tuning. Then will see what a little race gas and 15 lbs or so feels like.

This has been a good debate. I think that we have all come to find that we have our own preferances. I like blowers, some of you like Turbos which is perfectly fine, and I am not going to think you all are idiots for likeing T's over S's. I would love o have a Turbo car if I had the money I would. Each has its pro's and con's.

I have had my motor apart many times and have been more than a fair share of modding motors, I have respect for both....blowers are just easier to maintain, which is what I initally stated.

5.0's have awesome blower kits as well as Turbo kits and each will provide you with more than enough power for a dd car. Lets just leave it at that.

Turboguys you are cool in my book, I hope I didn't come across otherwise.

Ok....think about this. Why are the world's fastest cars Supercharged? Meaning Top Fuel? ;)

Because turbos are not allowed. The worlds quuickest and fastest mustangs are turbocharged Pro-5.0 & Modular. If you get a chance, read the penalties that turbos cars have to deal with so it would be fair. If they took all of the rules and penalties off of the turbo cars, it would be a slaughter. It's all politics. Fastest car in Pro-5.0, Outlaw and fastest modular car are turbo cars. Look at how many people change from blowers every season to turbo setups costing them 25-40K. Not one person has gone from a turbo setup to a blower setup in Pro-5.0. I think all of these power adders have their place.

One year it's the Turbo's, the next it's the year of the Supercharger.

ProCharger has recently developed a new huge blower - the D-3X or something like that. It is supposed to produce ungodly amounts of power.

If you look at what the Pro 5.0 racers have done each year it's really simple - they switch to whatever is the faster of the two. Last year everyone and their brother were running the ProCharger's and this year it was the Big Thumper Turbo.

Get what you like based on the facts above. For me, hands down, it's gotta be an ATI ProCharger! :D

Take it easy,
E

The procharger is called the F-4SC. It is the companies big daddy. This thing is ungodly. It has propelled 3 Pro 5.0 racers into the high sixes. It cranks out somewhere between 30-35 psi. It is definately the king of the superchargers. One thing, it doesn't hold the top spot. That is reserved for Halprin/Grebeck's turbocharged 6.77@208 monster:p

OMG I just finished reading the newest edition of 5.0 magazine. I read an article about Talevski Pande and his new Pro 5.0 car. Here is what caught my eye: His turbocharged small block made more than 2000 rwhp on a dyno, which apparently he broke the dyno also. He won't say the actual #, but said over 2000! He is expecting to run 6.50-second e.t's at more than 220 mph. The car looks SWEET and makes me jealous. I wish him the best of luck, and look forward to the stangs digging deeper into the 6 second zone.