Too much money spent to be going so slow!

soonerjoe79 · 02-13-2001, 07:37 PM

I took my car to the stip the other day and they would not let me run it b/c their was no battery hold down, but I ran afterwards with a friend and we ran the exact same. So I am going to assume I am running a 14.7. I think this is way to slow for my setup. I want to get some imput on your guys and if anyone has a similar setup that would be a great measuring stick.

I have a 68 coupe with a 351W forged Pistons, TFS aluminum heads, 1 5/8 Hooker Headers, Weiand Stealth Dual Plane manifold, 1.6 roller rockers, I have a 272 advertised duration cam with .484 lift. I have a holley 600 cfm carb. I also have a shift kit, but I do not have a stall, and I run 2.73 gears.

fastang · 02-13-2001, 07:51 PM

That cam has a large duration. Duration cams make their horsepower at a much higher rpm. With that cam you have actualy taken from your low end and improved the high. With those crappy gears you arent running anywhere near your powerband. Everytime you shift your dropping out. I had the same problem with my 308's I was really dissapointed with my combo untill I got the 355's. They realy tie the combo together. You will probably knock off a second by getting some 373's

------------------
95GT B303 cam, 1.7 rockers, 65mm TB, 73mm MAF, milled heads, 355's K&N, off road pipes, pulleys, msd coil, 9mm wires, Tremec 3550, Pro5.0 shifter,10.5 Motorsport clutch, weld in subframe connectors

Skyman · 02-14-2001, 02:57 PM

You really can't tell what you have untill you get to the track and get your MPH. What compression ratio do you have? Also I think a dual plane manifold is not good for your setup. You should run at RPM intake. The TFS heads flow good up top. The 272/484 lift cam sounds kinda small. I have the E-303 and its 282/.498 and I'm only running a 302. If the holley 600cfm carb isnt tuned its killing you too.

Also you need to work on your ignition system if you havn't. And your timing and timing advance. Find out what those are at and post them. Pull your crank fan and put in an electric if you already havn't. Also do you still have points?

And those 2.73 gears are MURDERING YOU.

Skyler

------------------
-1989 Saleen Mustang #406-
TFS Heads, Edelbrock intake, E-303, 3.73's, 1 5/8 shortys, Offroad-H, 2chamber flows, 36psi FPR, 15degrees timing, 70mm tb, 73mm maf, 24lb inj, Crank pulley, MSD6A, Alum driveshaft, ripper shifter, and turndowns.
13.2@106mph

Daily Driver
STOCK-1994 Integra LS
15.48@91mph

QuantumMotorsports · 02-14-2001, 09:34 PM

Hey SoonerJoe,

We need to line em up around town sometime and go at it. Or maybe I'll see you at Thunder Valley sometime. Look for the Black 88 cougar with Quantum on the windshield.

------------------
Michael Black
Quantum Motorsports
Norman, Oklahoma

1988 Merc Cougar 5.0 HO, P&Ped heads, 2.25" custom mandrel bent dual pipes, T5 five speed tranny
15.43 @ 91.08mph (not shabby for a 3600 pound car)
60' 2.453 Street tires suck!!!

lx mike · 02-14-2001, 09:56 PM

Need to do some tuning and also get some gears!! would need tires then with the torque that 351 makes!

smooth · 02-14-2001, 11:45 PM

your cam is too small, 1 5/8" headers will not support a good breathing 351, and like everyone else said you need gears+convertor.

soonerjoe79 · 02-16-2001, 02:02 AM

Quantum, I would love to hook up around town sometime.

I just added a Holley Pro-Jection 900 cfm (only so big, b/c I got a really good deal on it.)

Fastang,

I think most people agree on the gears thing, I will prob wait on a stall, since I want to put a t-5 in my car, for better drivability.

Skyman,

What type of cam would you suggest, like yours or more extreme, it seems like it would not be worth it for the small step from mine to yours?

LX,

I would like to keep tuning, it seems like the more I try to tune the worst it does. Just a novice that loves playing with my car.

Smooth,

Do you really think those headers are too small? What would you suggest 1 3/4? Does anyone know of a company that makes headers like that to fit in a 68 stang with a 351?

Thanks for all your suggestions guys. By the way, my name is Joey Higgins, I live in Norman OK, home of the Sooners and would love to meet up with any of you guys in my area and talk stangs, maybe even find a good place to run them!

smooth · 02-16-2001, 03:26 PM

well the headers may suit your application. i was just saying that a good breathing 351 cube motor (6000rpm shift points or more) will definitely be choked by the smaller diameter headers.

a few things to consider-what is your static compression ratio? and what is the duration on your cam @.050? are the heads otherwise box stock? a set of nicely worked heads on that motor should definitely be able to run a more aggressive camshaft than that. i need more details though.

[This message has been edited by smooth (edited 02-16-2001).]

Mean50 · 02-16-2001, 03:48 PM

Well it takes a lot more to make a 351 run as compared to a 302. The 351 is a lot harder to get to rev as quick, therefore you need a larger cam, one with more lift, such as a .512 or even up to .540. But with the high lift cam you will need a stall converter if you run an auto. The 600 cfm carb needs to be replaced with a 750. As far as gears, 3.73's is definately a must.

89 LX, 306, 10:1 compression, Holley Systemax II kit, 70 mm throttle body and MAF, 1 5/8" full lengths, centerforce dual friction clutch, 4.10 gears

soonerjoe79 · 02-17-2001, 08:55 AM

Thanks for all your help guys! We have established for sure I need lower gears. I am planning on putting a t-5 in sometime hopefully soon. With that being said what gears should I go with? 3.73, or should I go a little deeper since I will have that 5th gear to bring my rpms down.

So what do you guys think is the biggest cam I can get away with w/o losing too much drivability. This car is my daily driver as well.

With TFS aluminum heads, do you think this car has 12 second potential, as a daily driver?

Thanks

exgmguy · 02-17-2001, 03:37 PM

My good friend has a carbed 351 in his 89 converible LX.

"Junkyard" 351. short block from a truck
very mildy cleaned up TFS heads
Performer rpm intake
750 Holley
Tremec trans
4.10 gears
longtube 1 5/8 headers
H-pipe, Flowmasters, and dumps.

I don't know what cam, but is it .540 lift or less. (Manditory on TFS heads and stock pistons)

He runs low 12's to high 11's @ 115 mph on E.T. Streets.

------------------
1988 Mustang GT

12.0 @ 121 on radials
S-trim Vortech sitting in a box!

soonerjoe79 · 02-19-2001, 02:14 PM

Exgmguy,

Could you do me a favor and find out what cam he has, I have a very similar setup to his, so I think that could help me choose a new cam. What is his compression ratio, mine is 9.3:1.

I am also bogging out really badly at low RPM's if I jump on it, I know this is b/c I am getting too much fuel from my PRO-Jection 900 CFM, it has 4 85#/hr injectors. Do you guys know of any way around that.

The Pro-Jection really helped my top end! Lots more power above 5000 RPM

Thanks again everyone for your advice, I will do some of the changes and post the differce it makes.

smooth · 02-22-2001, 10:48 AM

before you go out buying new headers i think you should try and tune your motor now with everything else. if anything, get it dynoed. if your hp peaks early and stays very flat for a long time, you definitely need bigger tubes. maybe i overestimated the ability of your engine.

soonerjoe79 · 02-24-2001, 08:43 AM

Thanks, Smooth

Hey Quantum Motorsports, is there a dyno anywhere in OKC.

Thanks guys!

QuantumMotorsports · 02-24-2001, 01:27 PM

Powerhouse Racing has a chassis dyno in OKC somewhere, a friend had his 97 cobra dynoed a few days ago, I'm not sure on the cost but I think it's $75 for three runs. I'll ask him if he has their phone # or knows where they're at.

------------------
Michael Black
Quantum Motorsports
Norman, Oklahoma

1988 Merc Cougar 5.0 HO, P&Ped heads, 2.25" custom mandrel bent dual pipes, T5 five speed tranny
15.43 @ 91.08mph (not shabby for a 3600 pound car)
60' 2.453 Street tires suck!!!

QuantumMotorsports · 02-26-2001, 05:39 PM

Powerhouse charges $75 for three runs. Their phone # is (405)737-8264 They're located on Douglas north of I-40 I think. Not sure about location though. Good luck man.

------------------
Michael Black
Quantum Motorsports
Norman, Oklahoma

1988 Merc Cougar 5.0 HO, P heads, 2.25" custom mandrel bent dual pipes, T5 five speed tranny
New E/T!!!
14.626 @ 94.94mph

soonerjoe79 · 02-27-2001, 12:27 AM

WOW QM! Good for you on your ET that is a big difference! We need to hook up sometime and run, then you can tell me the secret to drastically improving your ET. How many horses did your friends cobra put to the street?

juiceman · 02-27-2001, 12:42 AM

you need a bigger carb. 700cfm. headers, most likely. cam. it is not a 302. 351's need bigger cams. x cam etc. although these cams are not streetable on a 302 it is very much streetable with a 351.

QuantumMotorsports · 02-27-2001, 06:07 PM

Thanks for noticing my E/T! We definately need to hook up and run em. All I did to get the better E/T was spin my tires in the water pit a little more than usual and instead of holding brakes and spinning em I just started spinning in the water and spun about 20' forward. Then I launched in front of the line to make sure I was hooking. Other than that I changed my plugs and checked my timing, that's it. Man, when you go to Powerhouse to get dynoed, I want to go too. This mustang analyzer thing says I should be getting 230 RWHP!!! That's like 270 flywheel. My friends Cobra was making 276 RWHP which comes out to about 325 flywheel. Not bad. He's only had exhaust work done and he ran that bad boy to a 13.43!! not bad. Anyway, throw me an email and we'll get together sometime and go up to 39th street in the city or something.

------------------
Michael Black
Quantum Motorsports
Norman, Oklahoma

1988 Merc Cougar 5.0 HO, P heads, 2.25" custom mandrel bent dual pipes, T5 five speed tranny
New E/T!!!
14.626 @ 94.94mph

soonerjoe79 · 02-28-2001, 10:22 AM

QM,

I heard from someone on 39th street Saturday night that the place in Midwest city has specials on certain days for like 50 dollars for two runs, not to much different than 75 for 3, but will save a few dollars. I was impressed with 39th street on Saturday night. Lots of very fast cars racing. Also a lot of very slow (ricers) racing. I live on the east side of norman, between 12 and 24th on Lindsey.

02-13-2001, 07:37 PM	#1
soonerjoe79 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Norman OK Posts: 14	Too much money spent to be going so slow! I took my car to the stip the other day and they would not let me run it b/c their was no battery hold down, but I ran afterwards with a friend and we ran the exact same. So I am going to assume I am running a 14.7. I think this is way to slow for my setup. I want to get some imput on your guys and if anyone has a similar setup that would be a great measuring stick. I have a 68 coupe with a 351W forged Pistons, TFS aluminum heads, 1 5/8 Hooker Headers, Weiand Stealth Dual Plane manifold, 1.6 roller rockers, I have a 272 advertised duration cam with .484 lift. I have a holley 600 cfm carb. I also have a shift kit, but I do not have a stall, and I run 2.73 gears.

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02-13-2001, 07:51 PM	#2
fastang Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: santa ana ca Posts: 1,349	That cam has a large duration. Duration cams make their horsepower at a much higher rpm. With that cam you have actualy taken from your low end and improved the high. With those crappy gears you arent running anywhere near your powerband. Everytime you shift your dropping out. I had the same problem with my 308's I was really dissapointed with my combo untill I got the 355's. They realy tie the combo together. You will probably knock off a second by getting some 373's ------------------ 95GT B303 cam, 1.7 rockers, 65mm TB, 73mm MAF, milled heads, 355's K&N, off road pipes, pulleys, msd coil, 9mm wires, Tremec 3550, Pro5.0 shifter,10.5 Motorsport clutch, weld in subframe connectors

02-14-2001, 02:57 PM	#3
Skyman I need 110mph Trap Speed! Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: So, CA Posts: 4,315	You really can't tell what you have untill you get to the track and get your MPH. What compression ratio do you have? Also I think a dual plane manifold is not good for your setup. You should run at RPM intake. The TFS heads flow good up top. The 272/484 lift cam sounds kinda small. I have the E-303 and its 282/.498 and I'm only running a 302. If the holley 600cfm carb isnt tuned its killing you too. Also you need to work on your ignition system if you havn't. And your timing and timing advance. Find out what those are at and post them. Pull your crank fan and put in an electric if you already havn't. Also do you still have points? And those 2.73 gears are MURDERING YOU. Skyler ------------------ -1989 Saleen Mustang #406- TFS Heads, Edelbrock intake, E-303, 3.73's, 1 5/8 shortys, Offroad-H, 2chamber flows, 36psi FPR, 15degrees timing, 70mm tb, 73mm maf, 24lb inj, Crank pulley, MSD6A, Alum driveshaft, ripper shifter, and turndowns. 13.2@106mph Daily Driver STOCK-1994 Integra LS 15.48@91mph

02-14-2001, 09:34 PM	#4
QuantumMotorsports Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Norman, Oklahoma, USA Posts: 597	Hey SoonerJoe, We need to line em up around town sometime and go at it. Or maybe I'll see you at Thunder Valley sometime. Look for the Black 88 cougar with Quantum on the windshield. ------------------ Michael Black Quantum Motorsports Norman, Oklahoma 1988 Merc Cougar 5.0 HO, P&Ped heads, 2.25" custom mandrel bent dual pipes, T5 five speed tranny 15.43 @ 91.08mph (not shabby for a 3600 pound car) 60' 2.453 Street tires suck!!!

02-14-2001, 09:56 PM	#5
lx mike Undescribable Join Date: Sep 1998 Location: Ft Myers Fla Posts: 1,539	Need to do some tuning and also get some gears!! would need tires then with the torque that 351 makes!

02-14-2001, 11:45 PM	#6
smooth Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1999 Location: illinois, USA Posts: 649	your cam is too small, 1 5/8" headers will not support a good breathing 351, and like everyone else said you need gears+convertor.

02-16-2001, 02:02 AM	#7
soonerjoe79 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Norman OK Posts: 14	Quantum, I would love to hook up around town sometime. I just added a Holley Pro-Jection 900 cfm (only so big, b/c I got a really good deal on it.) Fastang, I think most people agree on the gears thing, I will prob wait on a stall, since I want to put a t-5 in my car, for better drivability. Skyman, What type of cam would you suggest, like yours or more extreme, it seems like it would not be worth it for the small step from mine to yours? LX, I would like to keep tuning, it seems like the more I try to tune the worst it does. Just a novice that loves playing with my car. Smooth, Do you really think those headers are too small? What would you suggest 1 3/4? Does anyone know of a company that makes headers like that to fit in a 68 stang with a 351? Thanks for all your suggestions guys. By the way, my name is Joey Higgins, I live in Norman OK, home of the Sooners and would love to meet up with any of you guys in my area and talk stangs, maybe even find a good place to run them!

02-16-2001, 03:26 PM	#8
smooth Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1999 Location: illinois, USA Posts: 649	well the headers may suit your application. i was just saying that a good breathing 351 cube motor (6000rpm shift points or more) will definitely be choked by the smaller diameter headers. a few things to consider-what is your static compression ratio? and what is the duration on your cam @.050? are the heads otherwise box stock? a set of nicely worked heads on that motor should definitely be able to run a more aggressive camshaft than that. i need more details though. [This message has been edited by smooth (edited 02-16-2001).]

02-16-2001, 03:48 PM	#9
Mean50 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 118	Well it takes a lot more to make a 351 run as compared to a 302. The 351 is a lot harder to get to rev as quick, therefore you need a larger cam, one with more lift, such as a .512 or even up to .540. But with the high lift cam you will need a stall converter if you run an auto. The 600 cfm carb needs to be replaced with a 750. As far as gears, 3.73's is definately a must. 89 LX, 306, 10:1 compression, Holley Systemax II kit, 70 mm throttle body and MAF, 1 5/8" full lengths, centerforce dual friction clutch, 4.10 gears

02-17-2001, 08:55 AM	#10
soonerjoe79 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Norman OK Posts: 14	Thanks for all your help guys! We have established for sure I need lower gears. I am planning on putting a t-5 in sometime hopefully soon. With that being said what gears should I go with? 3.73, or should I go a little deeper since I will have that 5th gear to bring my rpms down. So what do you guys think is the biggest cam I can get away with w/o losing too much drivability. This car is my daily driver as well. With TFS aluminum heads, do you think this car has 12 second potential, as a daily driver? Thanks

02-17-2001, 03:37 PM	#11
exgmguy Registered Member Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: Utica, Michigan Posts: 2,631	My good friend has a carbed 351 in his 89 converible LX. "Junkyard" 351. short block from a truck very mildy cleaned up TFS heads Performer rpm intake 750 Holley Tremec trans 4.10 gears longtube 1 5/8 headers H-pipe, Flowmasters, and dumps. I don't know what cam, but is it .540 lift or less. (Manditory on TFS heads and stock pistons) He runs low 12's to high 11's @ 115 mph on E.T. Streets. ------------------ 1988 Mustang GT 12.0 @ 121 on radials S-trim Vortech sitting in a box!

02-19-2001, 02:14 PM	#12
soonerjoe79 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Norman OK Posts: 14	Exgmguy, Could you do me a favor and find out what cam he has, I have a very similar setup to his, so I think that could help me choose a new cam. What is his compression ratio, mine is 9.3:1. I am also bogging out really badly at low RPM's if I jump on it, I know this is b/c I am getting too much fuel from my PRO-Jection 900 CFM, it has 4 85#/hr injectors. Do you guys know of any way around that. The Pro-Jection really helped my top end! Lots more power above 5000 RPM Thanks again everyone for your advice, I will do some of the changes and post the differce it makes.

02-22-2001, 10:48 AM	#13
smooth Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1999 Location: illinois, USA Posts: 649	before you go out buying new headers i think you should try and tune your motor now with everything else. if anything, get it dynoed. if your hp peaks early and stays very flat for a long time, you definitely need bigger tubes. maybe i overestimated the ability of your engine.

02-24-2001, 08:43 AM	#14
soonerjoe79 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Norman OK Posts: 14	Thanks, Smooth Hey Quantum Motorsports, is there a dyno anywhere in OKC. Thanks guys!

02-24-2001, 01:27 PM	#15
QuantumMotorsports Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Norman, Oklahoma, USA Posts: 597	Powerhouse Racing has a chassis dyno in OKC somewhere, a friend had his 97 cobra dynoed a few days ago, I'm not sure on the cost but I think it's $75 for three runs. I'll ask him if he has their phone # or knows where they're at. ------------------ Michael Black Quantum Motorsports Norman, Oklahoma 1988 Merc Cougar 5.0 HO, P&Ped heads, 2.25" custom mandrel bent dual pipes, T5 five speed tranny 15.43 @ 91.08mph (not shabby for a 3600 pound car) 60' 2.453 Street tires suck!!!

02-26-2001, 05:39 PM	#16
QuantumMotorsports Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Norman, Oklahoma, USA Posts: 597	Powerhouse charges $75 for three runs. Their phone # is (405)737-8264 They're located on Douglas north of I-40 I think. Not sure about location though. Good luck man. ------------------ Michael Black Quantum Motorsports Norman, Oklahoma 1988 Merc Cougar 5.0 HO, P heads, 2.25" custom mandrel bent dual pipes, T5 five speed tranny New E/T!!! 14.626 @ 94.94mph

02-27-2001, 12:27 AM	#17
soonerjoe79 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Norman OK Posts: 14	WOW QM! Good for you on your ET that is a big difference! We need to hook up sometime and run, then you can tell me the secret to drastically improving your ET. How many horses did your friends cobra put to the street?

02-27-2001, 12:42 AM	#18
juiceman Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: ny Posts: 197	you need a bigger carb. 700cfm. headers, most likely. cam. it is not a 302. 351's need bigger cams. x cam etc. although these cams are not streetable on a 302 it is very much streetable with a 351.

02-27-2001, 06:07 PM	#19
QuantumMotorsports Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Norman, Oklahoma, USA Posts: 597	Thanks for noticing my E/T! We definately need to hook up and run em. All I did to get the better E/T was spin my tires in the water pit a little more than usual and instead of holding brakes and spinning em I just started spinning in the water and spun about 20' forward. Then I launched in front of the line to make sure I was hooking. Other than that I changed my plugs and checked my timing, that's it. Man, when you go to Powerhouse to get dynoed, I want to go too. This mustang analyzer thing says I should be getting 230 RWHP!!! That's like 270 flywheel. My friends Cobra was making 276 RWHP which comes out to about 325 flywheel. Not bad. He's only had exhaust work done and he ran that bad boy to a 13.43!! not bad. Anyway, throw me an email and we'll get together sometime and go up to 39th street in the city or something. ------------------ Michael Black Quantum Motorsports Norman, Oklahoma 1988 Merc Cougar 5.0 HO, P heads, 2.25" custom mandrel bent dual pipes, T5 five speed tranny New E/T!!! 14.626 @ 94.94mph

02-28-2001, 10:22 AM	#20
soonerjoe79 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Norman OK Posts: 14	QM, I heard from someone on 39th street Saturday night that the place in Midwest city has specials on certain days for like 50 dollars for two runs, not to much different than 75 for 3, but will save a few dollars. I was impressed with 39th street on Saturday night. Lots of very fast cars racing. Also a lot of very slow (ricers) racing. I live on the east side of norman, between 12 and 24th on Lindsey.