A couple hot weather questions.....

MattwantsSpeed · 08-20-2002, 06:19 PM

Well yesterday I moved to Florida from Mass. The car ran unbelieveably great, including the 27mpg I averaged. I do have a couple questions though. My car went to my mechanic to be prepared for the long ride. Things replaced include a starter and a 3 core "heavy duty" radiator. The reason the starter was replaced was that once the car and outside temp got hot, the car would crank over VERY slowly and then catch, so we determined it to be the starter. Today just cruising around running some errands, the car would turn over slowly. Since it's a new starter, what else could it be? Second question is, the car on the ride down and today, has been running warm. It's been running at 180 once running at highway speeds where it used to run about 165-170, but once at a stop light or stopped for whatever reason, the temp slowly climbs to as high as 220 (As it did in a VA. traffic jam, for about 30 mins) as it previously never got about 195. What could it be?? A brand new 3 core radiator and it's running hotter? I also haven't had the pullies on that long, so what could it be?

Thanks in advance,
Matt

HiFlow5 0 · 08-20-2002, 07:03 PM

Hey Matt, glad to hear you made the trip safe! 180 isn't bad at all. My car runs 195 to 200 on the highway. It will slowly climb when I have my ac on around town and in stop and go traffic. I too also noticed my car ran warmer when I put in the 3 core radiator? Mines a FRPP brass 3 core, what's yours? I've heard that an aluminum radiator will dissipate heat and cool better then brass. Maybe that would be what's needed?

-Craig

Maroon 5.0 LX · 08-20-2002, 07:46 PM

Glad you made it OK... Where in VA did you get hung up?

MattwantsSpeed · 08-20-2002, 07:51 PM

It's an Autozone 3 core. We basically stuck in traffic in Northern Va. Anywhere before Richmond I believe. We looked for the 301/5 but couldn't find it. It was kind of scary seeing the car run that hot.

srv1 · 08-20-2002, 07:54 PM

Matt. the system was designed to cool a two core radiator. now that you have 1 more core, you have to cool more fluid. since the pullies are not stock, they cant keep up with the new demand.get the ford performance high volume water pump. that should solve your problems with the underdrive pullies. i already assume you have a new thermostat in it.

Hozer 88GTConv · 08-20-2002, 08:17 PM

How do you like the 97 degrees and 100 percent humidity?
Anyway, if your fan clutch is old, replace it.
I have a 3 row also and have underdrives with an Edelbrock WP and it never gets above 200.
See you in Gainesville....Vroom Vroom

Lethal5Oh · 08-20-2002, 09:46 PM

Glad you made and your cars up and running again. My starter does the same. Granted its 7 years old (i think it hasnt been replaced) It only happens in realy warm weather. Im thinking the its the battery. Old batteries dont like heat, so im guessing its loosing voltage due to the heat. next time you hear it cranking slowly dont start the engine and test the battery voltage. Let me know, im curious. ITs cooled down here in Indiana but the next hot day im going to do the same. Good luck

USMC302 · 08-21-2002, 07:13 AM

My coupe has been doing the same thing for about 3 months now, My battery is in the trunk, so I don't think it is the battery getting hot. It starts fast as hell in the mornings and after work, but if I kill it for a short time and start again while she's still warm it's very slow. I was told the mini high torque starter sloves this problem and will be getting one next month if the wife allows. It is very common to have this problem with long tube headers, the starter gets to hot and starts to act up, the mini starter again will fix this. Good luck to all. I will let everyone know how the starting woes develope after the starter is installed.

Hozer 88GTConv · 08-21-2002, 08:56 AM

The factory starter is essentially a heat sink. Over time, as it is in such close proximity to the block, it gets extremely hot. It begins to draw more and more amps to turn it over. Also the ground is also a common corrosion point, which also causes performance to suffer.
I too had the annoying problem of slow/intermittent problem after running in hot weather.
I upgraded to the Mini Starter and ran 8 guage wire to the relay.
I have not had any problem since.
Good luck.

MattwantsSpeed · 08-21-2002, 10:16 AM

Oh, for the Southern people in hot weather......What is the best mix of water/coolant?? I have a good 50/50 mix.....I know water dissipates heat better, so could having too much coolant be making me run a bit hotter? I'm going to have my battery today to see if that could be one of my starting problems. If it's not that, I'm going to have my alternator checked. I will post my results. If it's not the battery or alternator......I dunno what cuz the starter is 4 days old.

USMC302 · 08-21-2002, 10:40 AM

See! High torque mini starter stikes again!!!

USMC302 · 08-21-2002, 11:04 AM

This is a common question in this forum and the usual answer bounces around a 70/30, and 80/20 mix for water/coolant respectively. Water wetter is a good addition too if you can get your hands on some.

MattwantsSpeed · 08-21-2002, 06:59 PM

I had my battery and alternator tested today and they all check out very well. So I guess it's my starter which is 4 days old or a bad ground there..... I did buy a Robert Shaw Gen. 2 180 degree thermostat I will try out. I'm going to drain some coolant and add water to make a 75/25 mix or so, maybe that will lower the temp a bit. I did see some stuff at Discount Auto that claims it reduces water temp by 40 degrees....even if it's only 10 or so, is it worth it?

MattwantsSpeed · 08-22-2002, 12:43 PM

I was thinking, Would it be ok to not run a thermostat at all in Florida?? Someone had mentioned it to me....What do you guys think?

HiFlow5 0 · 08-22-2002, 02:44 PM

Bad idea! The coolant would just be flowing all the time. Its needs time to hangout in the radiator to cool off before making the cycle again.

Stang951 · 08-23-2002, 08:32 AM

Since the water pump was brought up, is there any flow difference between the Edelbrock and the FRPP? I have the Griffin 31X19 aluminum, Mark VIII fan, 180 Hi-flow thermostat and 2 bottles of water wetter with all water and still run 180-195 without a/c in no traffic.

Hozer 88GTConv · 08-23-2002, 08:37 AM

That is the longest signature I have seen yet...impressive too.
Incidentally, I have the edelbrock WP and it's been great. Other than having to grind a few thousandths off the bottom to clear my harmonic balancer.

Thad · 08-24-2002, 08:44 AM

I too had starter woes. found out it was drawing twice the amount of amps that it's supposed to. granted it was about 4 or 5 yrs old. Since i have long tube headers i figured the heat killed it. I just replaced it with an oem starter and wrapped it with a heat shield. No problems since. The reason i went with the oem one is because it is a high torque style. A bit cheaper than the after market ones.
As far as the heating problem your having. That seems to be very common down here. i'm still working on that one. just bought some toys for the cooling system to try and work it out.
if what i'm trying works i'll post what i did.
good luck
thad

08-20-2002, 06:19 PM	#1
MattwantsSpeed Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Lakeland, Fl Posts: 224	A couple hot weather questions..... Well yesterday I moved to Florida from Mass. The car ran unbelieveably great, including the 27mpg I averaged. I do have a couple questions though. My car went to my mechanic to be prepared for the long ride. Things replaced include a starter and a 3 core "heavy duty" radiator. The reason the starter was replaced was that once the car and outside temp got hot, the car would crank over VERY slowly and then catch, so we determined it to be the starter. Today just cruising around running some errands, the car would turn over slowly. Since it's a new starter, what else could it be? Second question is, the car on the ride down and today, has been running warm. It's been running at 180 once running at highway speeds where it used to run about 165-170, but once at a stop light or stopped for whatever reason, the temp slowly climbs to as high as 220 (As it did in a VA. traffic jam, for about 30 mins) as it previously never got about 195. What could it be?? A brand new 3 core radiator and it's running hotter? I also haven't had the pullies on that long, so what could it be? Thanks in advance, Matt __________________ 89 LX Hatch 5.0 5spd, alot of miles, terrible 2.73's, mac cai, pullies, Tri-Ax, 16* timing, elect fan, 3G alt Best to date: 14.331@97.46mph with 14*/stock fan/short belt and a 2.222 60' in 90 degree weather Waiting to put on Off road H and 1 5/8 headers Rice Hater's Club #36

08-20-2002, 07:03 PM	#2
HiFlow5 0 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Springfield, Ma, usa Posts: 706	Hey Matt, glad to hear you made the trip safe! 180 isn't bad at all. My car runs 195 to 200 on the highway. It will slowly climb when I have my ac on around town and in stop and go traffic. I too also noticed my car ran warmer when I put in the 3 core radiator? Mines a FRPP brass 3 core, what's yours? I've heard that an aluminum radiator will dissipate heat and cool better then brass. Maybe that would be what's needed? -Craig __________________ NewEngland Auto www.baystategearheads.com -91 Mustang Coupe, ex 4cyl (sold) -99 F150, 3" lift, 35" Procomps, Magnaflow exhaust

08-20-2002, 07:46 PM	#3
Maroon 5.0 LX Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Southern Maryland Posts: 471	Glad you made it OK... Where in VA did you get hung up? __________________ '89 LX 5.0 - 5 speed. Original Owner '94 E-150 4.9 Hi-Top Conversion Van '06 Mustang V-6, 5 speed

08-20-2002, 07:51 PM	#4
MattwantsSpeed Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Lakeland, Fl Posts: 224	It's an Autozone 3 core. We basically stuck in traffic in Northern Va. Anywhere before Richmond I believe. We looked for the 301/5 but couldn't find it. It was kind of scary seeing the car run that hot. __________________ 89 LX Hatch 5.0 5spd, alot of miles, terrible 2.73's, mac cai, pullies, Tri-Ax, 16* timing, elect fan, 3G alt Best to date: 14.331@97.46mph with 14*/stock fan/short belt and a 2.222 60' in 90 degree weather Waiting to put on Off road H and 1 5/8 headers Rice Hater's Club #36

08-20-2002, 07:54 PM	#5
srv1 Get down..... Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Room 103 Posts: 2,095	Matt. the system was designed to cool a two core radiator. now that you have 1 more core, you have to cool more fluid. since the pullies are not stock, they cant keep up with the new demand.get the ford performance high volume water pump. that should solve your problems with the underdrive pullies. i already assume you have a new thermostat in it. __________________ Cobra brakes are on! Finally..... ------------------------------------------------

08-20-2002, 08:17 PM	#6
Hozer 88GTConv Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 706	Welcome to Fla... How do you like the 97 degrees and 100 percent humidity? Anyway, if your fan clutch is old, replace it. I have a 3 row also and have underdrives with an Edelbrock WP and it never gets above 200. See you in Gainesville....Vroom Vroom __________________ 1988 GT Convertible 331 10:1 TW heads, GT-40 intake, MSD, TRW flattops, B Cam w/ 1.7's, MAC exhaust, 24's, 70 TB, 76 MAF, 3.73's, Pro 5.0, Koni's, Anderson PMS, Wideband 02, yatta, yatta... One week with new motor, two speeding tickets...joy

08-20-2002, 09:46 PM	#7
Lethal5Oh Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portage Posts: 239	Glad you made and your cars up and running again. My starter does the same. Granted its 7 years old (i think it hasnt been replaced) It only happens in realy warm weather. Im thinking the its the battery. Old batteries dont like heat, so im guessing its loosing voltage due to the heat. next time you hear it cranking slowly dont start the engine and test the battery voltage. Let me know, im curious. ITs cooled down here in Indiana but the next hot day im going to do the same. Good luck __________________ '95 GT convert. K&N, C&L mass air meter, Performance distributors sreamin demon coil, dyna mod, live wires, king cobra clutch, flowmaster american thunder exhaust, UPR billet adjustable shift handle, Crane Cams Fireball HI-6 box,underdrive pullies, 255lph fuel pump, UPr short throw shifter, caster camber plates, 03 cobra lower A arms, bullit suspension, cobra front brakes

08-21-2002, 07:13 AM	#8
USMC302 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Gallatin, Tn Posts: 1,326	My coupe has been doing the same thing for about 3 months now, My battery is in the trunk, so I don't think it is the battery getting hot. It starts fast as hell in the mornings and after work, but if I kill it for a short time and start again while she's still warm it's very slow. I was told the mini high torque starter sloves this problem and will be getting one next month if the wife allows. It is very common to have this problem with long tube headers, the starter gets to hot and starts to act up, the mini starter again will fix this. Good luck to all. I will let everyone know how the starting woes develope after the starter is installed. __________________

08-21-2002, 08:56 AM	#9
Hozer 88GTConv Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 706	Heat Sink... The factory starter is essentially a heat sink. Over time, as it is in such close proximity to the block, it gets extremely hot. It begins to draw more and more amps to turn it over. Also the ground is also a common corrosion point, which also causes performance to suffer. I too had the annoying problem of slow/intermittent problem after running in hot weather. I upgraded to the Mini Starter and ran 8 guage wire to the relay. I have not had any problem since. Good luck. __________________ 1988 GT Convertible 331 10:1 TW heads, GT-40 intake, MSD, TRW flattops, B Cam w/ 1.7's, MAC exhaust, 24's, 70 TB, 76 MAF, 3.73's, Pro 5.0, Koni's, Anderson PMS, Wideband 02, yatta, yatta... One week with new motor, two speeding tickets...joy

08-21-2002, 10:16 AM	#10
MattwantsSpeed Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Lakeland, Fl Posts: 224	Oh, for the Southern people in hot weather......What is the best mix of water/coolant?? I have a good 50/50 mix.....I know water dissipates heat better, so could having too much coolant be making me run a bit hotter? I'm going to have my battery today to see if that could be one of my starting problems. If it's not that, I'm going to have my alternator checked. I will post my results. If it's not the battery or alternator......I dunno what cuz the starter is 4 days old. __________________ 89 LX Hatch 5.0 5spd, alot of miles, terrible 2.73's, mac cai, pullies, Tri-Ax, 16* timing, elect fan, 3G alt Best to date: 14.331@97.46mph with 14*/stock fan/short belt and a 2.222 60' in 90 degree weather Waiting to put on Off road H and 1 5/8 headers Rice Hater's Club #36

08-21-2002, 10:40 AM	#11
USMC302 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Gallatin, Tn Posts: 1,326	See! High torque mini starter stikes again!!! __________________

08-21-2002, 11:04 AM	#12
USMC302 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Gallatin, Tn Posts: 1,326	This is a common question in this forum and the usual answer bounces around a 70/30, and 80/20 mix for water/coolant respectively. Water wetter is a good addition too if you can get your hands on some. __________________

08-21-2002, 06:59 PM	#13
MattwantsSpeed Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Lakeland, Fl Posts: 224	I had my battery and alternator tested today and they all check out very well. So I guess it's my starter which is 4 days old or a bad ground there..... I did buy a Robert Shaw Gen. 2 180 degree thermostat I will try out. I'm going to drain some coolant and add water to make a 75/25 mix or so, maybe that will lower the temp a bit. I did see some stuff at Discount Auto that claims it reduces water temp by 40 degrees....even if it's only 10 or so, is it worth it? __________________ 89 LX Hatch 5.0 5spd, alot of miles, terrible 2.73's, mac cai, pullies, Tri-Ax, 16* timing, elect fan, 3G alt Best to date: 14.331@97.46mph with 14*/stock fan/short belt and a 2.222 60' in 90 degree weather Waiting to put on Off road H and 1 5/8 headers Rice Hater's Club #36

08-22-2002, 12:43 PM	#14
MattwantsSpeed Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Lakeland, Fl Posts: 224	I was thinking, Would it be ok to not run a thermostat at all in Florida?? Someone had mentioned it to me....What do you guys think? __________________ 89 LX Hatch 5.0 5spd, alot of miles, terrible 2.73's, mac cai, pullies, Tri-Ax, 16* timing, elect fan, 3G alt Best to date: 14.331@97.46mph with 14*/stock fan/short belt and a 2.222 60' in 90 degree weather Waiting to put on Off road H and 1 5/8 headers Rice Hater's Club #36

08-22-2002, 02:44 PM	#15
HiFlow5 0 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Springfield, Ma, usa Posts: 706	Bad idea! The coolant would just be flowing all the time. Its needs time to hangout in the radiator to cool off before making the cycle again. __________________ NewEngland Auto www.baystategearheads.com -91 Mustang Coupe, ex 4cyl (sold) -99 F150, 3" lift, 35" Procomps, Magnaflow exhaust

08-23-2002, 08:32 AM	#16
Stang951 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Metairie, La. USA Posts: 132	Since the water pump was brought up, is there any flow difference between the Edelbrock and the FRPP? I have the Griffin 31X19 aluminum, Mark VIII fan, 180 Hi-flow thermostat and 2 bottles of water wetter with all water and still run 180-195 without a/c in no traffic. __________________ Engine: 1990 5.8 / Edelbrock Performer set-up MSD ignition Suspension: Maximum Motorsports Caster-Camber Plates / Maximum Motorsports adjustable lower control arms / FRPP heavy duty upper control arms / Tokico Illumina Shocks and Struts / Ground Pounder Coil Over conversion kit front / Steeda cross brace sub-frame connectors / Drivetrain: Tremec 3550 trans / Steeda Tri-Ax shifter / Spec Stage II clutch and pressure plate / Spec aluminum flywheel / 5.8 in the hole

08-23-2002, 08:37 AM	#17
Hozer 88GTConv Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 706	Wow... That is the longest signature I have seen yet...impressive too. Incidentally, I have the edelbrock WP and it's been great. Other than having to grind a few thousandths off the bottom to clear my harmonic balancer. __________________ 1988 GT Convertible 331 10:1 TW heads, GT-40 intake, MSD, TRW flattops, B Cam w/ 1.7's, MAC exhaust, 24's, 70 TB, 76 MAF, 3.73's, Pro 5.0, Koni's, Anderson PMS, Wideband 02, yatta, yatta... One week with new motor, two speeding tickets...joy

08-24-2002, 08:44 AM	#18
Thad Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Stuart, FL US Posts: 192	I too had starter woes. found out it was drawing twice the amount of amps that it's supposed to. granted it was about 4 or 5 yrs old. Since i have long tube headers i figured the heat killed it. I just replaced it with an oem starter and wrapped it with a heat shield. No problems since. The reason i went with the oem one is because it is a high torque style. A bit cheaper than the after market ones. As far as the heating problem your having. That seems to be very common down here. i'm still working on that one. just bought some toys for the cooling system to try and work it out. if what i'm trying works i'll post what i did. good luck thad __________________ 90 LX 5.0 ,bored 302, MSD 6AL, Twisted Wedge TrickFlo HDs, World class T5, BBK fender cold air induct., 70mm TB,Edelbrock performer Intake, aluminum Drve shaft, 3.55 Gears, Long Tube Headers to Flowmasters.

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