Is this overkill?

[demon666999]

I'm building a 302 twin turbo with 2 turbos out of a old t bird and either putting it in a 80's stang our a thunderbird turbo coupe. My friend made me a list of parts we should buy for the build up. Keep in mind my goal is somewhere in the 10s.

(all aftermarket)
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
700 double pumper carb
intake
heads
rollerrockers
steel crank
steel rods
forged pistons
cam
splayed 4 bolt mains
fluidamper

Also is there anything i should add to this list?

and (i know this is kinda a bias question but...) Any good reasons to choose the stang over the t bird?

[DAN-MAN]

originally posted by demon666999
and (i know this is kinda a bias question but...) Any good reasons to choose the stang over the t bird?

Yeah, the Mustang is alot lighter than the T-bird.

Daniel.

[demon666999]

i coulda swore it was only like 300lbs more, andpersonally it a hella nicer inside.

[5.0 Pony]

that's why you customize the stang's interior

[1969Mach1]

Can you just take the turbo's out of a old t-bird and put them in a 5.0L? Also what does it take to hook them up? Can you grab almost any turbo and hook it up to almost any car? Sorry I'm new to Turbo's really. Just wondering that's all... may almost be worth a try...

§am.

[demon666999]

ehhh,ehhh dont steal my post Just kiddin, you can use any turbo on almost any car as long as the engine can spool it up. th only thing stoppin you is propper exhaust flanges. Just take a good look at a diagram of how one is setup and it will all make sence.

[1969Mach1]

Ahh... ok sounds good. I've looked at it and always believed you can use any turbo but then couldn't figure it out always. I guess the scrap yard takes the turbo's and sells them ehh... I'll ask my dad who has a buddy that works at a scrap yard. I get alot of good parts from him, actually I bought my Mach 1 off of him. But that wasn't to do with the scrap yard.

Can your engine be to powerful for the turbo?

§am.

[demon666999]

not realy, i guess if the turbo was too small it would restrice airflow and choke your engine, soo just dont use a turbo off say an old geo metro(yes they came turbo).
Ohh and if you need a turbo i should be able to get a handfull of t3eo4s out of a thunderbird tubo coupe for about 150 each, maybe a lil less depending on shipping.

[1969Mach1]

Nice Nice.....! How much would it cost to convert them/set them up to my car. Also how many pounds boost do they give?

I'm just learning right now, I'm pondernig on keeping my pace car. If I do it's going to have some serious mods, if not I want to keep it as orignal as possible then sell it make some money and buy something less. I was thinking of Turboing a 4cly. Mustang for fun as more of a daily driven car so my insurance and gas will be cheap but still put out some good power, and then have another car for my weekend/summer car.

Thanks Again,
§am.

[demon666999]

as hard as having a exhaust shop weld a new flange on, prob like $50.

[1969Mach1]

Wow very sweet...
how much boost can you get out of T-bird's Turbo...?

[demon666999]

prob around 15 maybe a lil more but if you know how turbos work you'll know that it wont feel the same as 15 on a larger turbo. Most likely all you'll need though. These turbos bring stangs into the 10's.

[jim_howard_pdx]

First of all, LOSE the fluid dampner balancer. This is not a good piece for a drag race engine. At steady rpms, the inner ring will balance within the silicone. For an engine that is screaming through an rpm range, it will smooth some parts of the range, and make others WORSE. Wanna spin a bearing? Wanna break a crank? Go with a ROMEC or with an ATI balancer.

Second, why do you want a turbo charged engine? You are going to cook the inside of the engine bay. So if you are not road racing, or going for a bonneville record you should be looking at a centrifugal supercharger like a Paxton or a Velodyne unit. These are awesome units.

I built a twin turbo charged 350 small block chevy engine once. It was slow as hell to 100. Then ran 100-150 mph like a DEMON. It could not come close to beating a turbo porsche, so I sold it to a kid that wanted a twin turbo engine. By the way, just the dual waste gates for that engine cost me 750 bucks back in the 80's. Just imagine what it will cost to build a safe dual turbo today.

Personally, I would go with a great fuel injection engine like a modern 302 with MAS fuel injection and the roller lifter cams. With a fogger NOS system you can run 11 second times without a problem. This will beat a turbo porsche. Plus, the car will be sedate without being bottle fed. It will be a nice ride.

Most importantly, you can be creative. You can build a 347 stroker, with solid lifter roller cam and AR or Trick Flow heads and get a solid 600 hp with NOS and a solid 500 hp on the engine. You can expect 15 mpg if you don't go overboard on rear end gears. I would go 3.70 to 4.10 if you want to quarter mile, and go 3.50 if you want to autocross.

You can do this without the heat and damage done by turbocharging. Really, I HATE TURBOS because of what they do to the engine bay. They are a big hair dryer.

Don't take me wrong, they are the way to go if you want to go faster than 190 mph. But really, turbos are for road racing and super chargers are for off the line. NOS is for those that want a great car with power on demand.

[demon666999]

I dont know i am just partial to turbos, and as long as your using a nice intercooler setup i cant see it burning anything up. Also i can get real good deals on turbo components so thos BOV's wont be a big deal. And turbos are slow? turbomustangs.com
there are people with a stock 302 bottom end with tubos and fuel managament and are runing 10-11's all day.

And if you are real worried about the cooliing get a nice water injection system.

[demon666999]

Oh and superchargers are a lil outa my price range. Its easy for a 19 yr old whos goin to college to buy moderately priced pieces one at a time, saving 2-3 grand up at once to buy a supercharger isnt practical for me.

[1969Mach1]

Interesting stuff I learned here... Yeh I know what it's like Demon. I'm 18 and going to school. I plan of finishing the Pace car and selling it and hope to make a few grand. Now that I've taken in this info I may just buy a 4cly Mustang for my daily driver, and try to put a t-bird turbo in her. Anyone know what kind of performance results you get? I'm not going to go crazy and make this some hardcore race car. Just a 4cly car that can beat these ricers and they can't use the excuse of me having a V8.

§am.

[jim_howard_pdx]

A turbo typically will not cause anything to break on the engine, rather the 1400 degree heat will super cook the engine bay. All the hoses and belts will need to be repaced every 25-50 k miles. The engine oil will be severly effected, meaning you have to run much better quality oil, and you need to change it more often.

When you shut down the engine, oil flow stops to the turbo bearings. The 1400 degree heat is still there. The oil burns and over time it will "coke" the housing and the bearing will go bye bye.

At 15 psi, you are almost doubling your volumetric efficiency of the engine. A 200 hp engine will develop about 375 hp at 6500 RPM. Go above 15 psi and your head gaskets, piston surface, valves, rings and everything will deteriorate. You can expect fairly expensive tear down and rebuilds every 100-150k miles. Many times it is cheaper to buy new turbos than fix the old ones.

A turbo is not an engine for a 19 year old on a limited budget. A twin turbo is not an engine for someone without access to dyno time, with extra money for tuning the engine for maximum power.

Really. You are not going to beat on rice rockets just because of the turbo. You beat up on competitors by having more off line torque. A 302 with decent home ported heads, cam, intake, and gears can easily run mid twelve to mid thirteen second quarters. Most rice rockets run 15.25 to 15.75 second ets. So you will have street and strip dominance without high expense.

If you want a good turbo car, look for a buick grand national. They could turn 12.1 quarter mile times with only mild modifications. Just remember you will be paying for rebuilding the turbo and the engine on a more frequent basis.

I really hate tubos on street cars. They are designed for racing at very high rpms. This is not a cheap way to go.

But good luck, and I wish you well. Keep your dollars totalled up. When you go past 1500 dollars, realize a 5 speed 302 would now be running 12.50's. Where are you now?????

[demon666999]

Ok well i dont believe a proper built turbo engine will have to be rebuilt ever 150 miles, that seems real unreasonable. I didnt sau i didnt have the right amount of money to buiod up right, just nt the ability at the moment to save up 2-3000 dollars at once(i',m still young). And all these heating probs you speak of which can be fixed would happen on any turbo car including the grandnational which costs say at least 6000. You dont see this car nor talons and eclipse's or most other rubo cars dieing 150 miles off the lot. Being that i am building a engine from block up it will be like a new engine, so i cant see rebuilding it a few times a year. Realy not gonna happen nor do i think it will need it. If you build a turbo engine right it will last. As for the block itself it is cast iron just like all of the lil ricers turbo engines that can pull 12-13's all day and yet still hit 100+k miles on there odometer. So i cant see why a properly built larger engine cant do so also. Soo with this cooling issue again buy a few things like sayy
1)intercooler
2)oil cooler
3)water injection

And now a days oil baking on the turbine is just sloppy way of doing thing, we now have turbo timers that cost all of 100 dollars to prevent that.

Ohh and i may be considering using a 351 now that i hear that it is much stronger of a block and can handle upwards of 1000hp.

[demon666999]

Still nobody has realy commented on my current setup And whether I chould add or take off anything. I could realy use some input.
Thanks ahead of time

[lx5091]

I'd just like to make an observation. Demon, the subject to your post reads "is this overkill???". Jim is answering basically by saying, it's not a matter of it being overkill, but rather it's not necessarily the least expensive way to get you where you want to be. You seem to be arguing that. I think Jim is right. Just trying to be helpful, I don't hate turbo's or anything.



I don't think I'd ever run them in a street car, just because i do believe they kick in too much too late. The whole point is, this will cost you alot of money, if not upfront then it certainly will as you go along. And I believe if you properly build anything it won't fail, but mistakes happen and GREED happens, maybe if i try a little more boost, BLAM!!

You obviously need to do what you want, but do you think you could change the subject to, I'm building a twin turbo V8, what do I need?