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06-20-2004, 09:47 PM | #1 |
Huh? Whatcha said?
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Life part 2
I don't know if any of you watch Penn and Teller's show named, "Bullshit", but it just went off. It's a half hour based show in which they try to show arguements for and against whatever the given subject is. Good show. It's on Showtime. Check it out.
Anyway, thier show tonight was about the Bible, which is why I am posting again about this subject. They gave me some fodder for an arguement about whether or not the Bible is the word of God or the work of man. I learned that during the same time that Jesus was walking the Earth, there were other so called Messiah's walking the Earth doing the same things Christ was doing. Healing the sick, raising the dead, walking through walls, and so on. Unfortuneately I can't remember some of the names, but there is written proof of them. Back to the homosexual debate, sortof. In the same chapter sevral verses away from the verse that condems homosexual activity is another verse tell us to stone our children if they do not listen to thier parents. People pick and choose what parts of the Bible they want to believe, and don't hand me the crap about our society not condoning this stuff. If you believed the Bible to be word for word the Will of God, you had beeter live by it, right? Yeah, like I have said, the Bible is a good book, but not much more than that. God does exist, Jesus did walk the Earth, He is the Son of God, but then again, aren't we all children of God? Stop wasting your time trying to figure out the bible, and start living your life. Live as you were meant to live. Excersice what the creators of the bible did, free will. In truth, I believe in Predestination. To a certain extent..... Who ever reads this, was meant to read it, I was meant to write it. Who ever posts on here, had no other choice than to post. You can only post. nd what you post was already decided. A little to much Matrix Revolutions for you? Me too.....but it's true. You can only do what you were meant to do. No more, no less. Sucks huh? Did you know that the Bible has a certain number of people that it says will go into heaven? I'm not about to read the whole Bible just to find that one little pharse, but I have read it before. I'll try to find it. So, if there is a set number of people going to heaven, because God knows what you will and will not do, then isn't that predestination? Also, there is now evidence that Moses didn't cross the "RED" Sea, but that he crossed the "REED" Sea. Basically, it's a marsh, that when the winds blow froma certain direction for more than a few days, drys up. Biblical Historians are the ones to blame for this story, not atheist. So what we have is, instead of the miracle of the Red sea parting to save Moses an the Hebrews, we have the picture of a bunch of Hebrews being saved because a marsh was dry...... So.....God didn't part the Red Sea? Then that means the Bible isn't an exact truth. It was exaggerated. Go figure.
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2003 GT White---STOLEN May you burn in hell whoever took it. Dumbazz didn't even get the good engine that was in the garage. |
06-21-2004, 04:09 PM | #2 |
2 Stangs in the Stable
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Oh man, this oughtta be fun.
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06-21-2004, 04:41 PM | #3 |
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Going it alone
bigwhitecobra:
I have no intention of further attempting to dissuade you from your rejection of the divinity of Jesus Christ and the bible as the Word of God. You have chosen to reject both as mere illusions and man-made stories and so it's only natural that you will seek out those who agree with you, including entertainers, to justfy what you want so very much to believe - or, in your case, not believe. You are a humanist, whether you realize it or not. You mouth the word 'Christian' then reject the very words Christianity is based on and now come here to claim that: hey, maybe that Jesus dude wasn't the real deal, after all, so why do I need to obey anything he says, anyway? You want to do what you want to do and feel good about that at the same time, so you 'find' all kinds of oh-so logical reasons to reject Jesus and the bible - and guess what? There are a ton of atheists out there who are all too willing to give you all kinds of reasons to question, doubt and, ultimately, reject the Christian faith to go live as you please, yet still claim to 'believe' in God and Christ - sort of, maybe, kinda. You make up your own moral code and give God lip-service while soaking up weird propositions from Penn and Teller, of all people, about Jesus not being the only Messiah and so on. I won't even bother refuting the nonsense you posted here as I've already wasted far too much time on one who has no intention of hearing what he doesn't wish to hear (or read). My time is too valuable to waste on those who are deaf and blind and want to be their own savior. I long ago made my case with you - and you ignored it, for the most part. Fine. I'm done with the issue, now. I have no interest in arguing forever with someone who is not only non-responsive but uses secular TV shows for spiritual information. Whatever. I've come to the conclusion that on matters of faith and spirituality you believe whatever the last person you listened to, said. Sad, but not uncommon, today. O.K. You've made your choice. You're obviously content with it. So be it. That is your right, of course. Now, live with it - but please, stop using the name 'Christian' for yourself as it insults the living God that created you when you casually reject His Word and His Son and start looking for magicians with a show entitled 'Bullshit' to 'enlighten' you on spiritual matters. How ridiculous. I do reget your decision to reject the bible to 'do your own thing' but you are a young guy and I trust that when your own set of 'beliefs' and your self-made moral code fail you, as they will, because they rely on human standards and morality, not God's, you'll regain the respect for God, Jesus Christ and the bible that all three demand and deserve. Until then: Good luck.
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06-21-2004, 10:10 PM | #4 |
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man, no arguement, but i would be very afraid not to believe in the truth of jesus, the verse you speak of is 144,000 will enter heaven, it's a jehova?sp. witness untrue belief, if that were true, then if they had more than 144,000 member's, which one's are the chosen? anyway, politic's & religion alway's lead to arguement's, i believe in jesus! that's all.
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95 gt vert, lot's of stuff, it aint slow. 04 sonic blue v - six my beater 89 rs camaro iroc turbo hood, other stuff, my wifes ride 84 lx stang cammed up 289 hi po, etc 65 falcon, maybe by the year 2020. black 00gt, gone but never forgotten. R H C- member # 1 o.b.c. da prez- member # 1 if your under 40 dont ask. goodbye for now odie,r.i.p. 11-27-03 |
06-22-2004, 10:15 AM | #5 |
Huh? Whatcha said?
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I am only stating that there are other possibilities that what is quoted in the Bible. It is my theory that the Bible, which may have started out being the word of God, is now the work of MAN. No more no less. Does God exist? Without hessitation, YES. Did he create the heavens and earth? Again, YES. Did His son walk the earth and heal peple? YES. Is the Bible the absolute word of God? Not by a long shot.
For man to write the Bible, whether or not it was inspired by God, is inherently flawed. We are given Free Will. God can not override Free Will, or His creation is Flawed. No matter how much you preach the Bible to be true, it is bound by human nature to be flawed, or wrong. If even one word was added that is not the word of God, then it is no longer true. And I am sure that it has more than one word added to it for people to better understand it. But once you add one word to it, what's another, or another, or another. Soon you have what may have started out being the word of God, but is now the work of man. Take for instance man's using only the parts of the Bible that he agrees with. No man shall lay with another man. Ok, fair enough. What about the verses that say we should Stone to death any woman that is found to be, basically, a hooker? What about the passage that states we are to Stone to death the children that do not obey thier parents? What do you say to that? Why do we not practice that? Because we are civilized? Or, is is because of the statement, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."? Or is it because we know that that is cruel, and we just plain don't like that part? Or is it because we know deep down inside that the Bible is full of bogus rules, meant to control the masses? Does the Bible say anything about a woman lying with another woman? I haven't found that verse yet. So, as of now, I have to believe that being homosexual is only ok if you are a woman....something the men of this world would love. If there is a verse that exists, I will gladly retract my last statement, but as I have said, I haven't found it yet. I believe in God and Jesus Christ. I believe that Jesus walked the Earth and was the Great Teacher. Why? Because so much has been written about Him. Not just biblically. The Romans wrote about His crusifiction. So he did die the way that has been described in books from that time period. NOT just the Bible. Did Noah really gather 2 of every lliving creature? We are meant to believe he did, right? Think of the logistics involved with that. Did Noah go from continant to continant, gathering 2 of everything in the world? Did he make it to Antartica? What about Greenland, Iceland, New Zealand, Austraila, New Hamshire, Norway, every island in all the oceans, England, Wales, etc.? After Gathering them, did he get them all back to where they came from? Or is there a simpler explaination? I am not a historian, so I'll leave that to them, but the point still stands. Did Moses ever live? Show me one shred of evidence outside the Bible. He wandered the desert for 40 years, right? Show me some artifacts from that wandering. Surely we could find some, we're talking about thousands of people walking around the desert. I'm sure that they left a little bit behind them somewhere. You keep saying that you feel sorry for me. Don't. I know in my heart that God does in fact exist. I know in my heart that in fact Jesus does exist. I also know in my heart that the Bible is, at best man's attempt to speak for God. Even in the Bible it says that we can not know God. How can you tell me that the Bible, is the Word of God, if we can not know Him, His plans, or His ideas? You, along with millions of others, have been corrupted by the Bible. You, my friend, are one of the flock that has been decieved. Have you ever thought that just maybe the Bible was inspire by Satan? Think about it for a split second before you have a massive brain hemorage. Even the Good Book tells you that the Devil is the most beautiful thing in creation. He is more attractive to man than anything man has ever encountered. What better way to decieve man than with the supposed Word of God? Now, I'm not saying that the Bible is Satan's work. But I am saying that if man changed one word, or exaggerated one story, it is now as useless as a football bat. And what better target to corrupt man, that with God's own word? Just think about it, for longer than the time it takes you to get all huffy and puffy. Actually let this thought wander around in you head, pray about it, and listen to your heart. Jesus lives in your heart, right? Well, maybe he has some thoughts for you. Who knows? Later.
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2003 GT White---STOLEN May you burn in hell whoever took it. Dumbazz didn't even get the good engine that was in the garage. |
06-22-2004, 02:32 PM | #6 | |||||||||
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Bibical ignorance and bibical rejection go hand in hand
Originally posted by bigwhitecobra :
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To answer your question: One of the verses you quote is from Leviticus 20, verse 13: If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. This verse was an instruction for man not to have sex ('lie with') another man. Sodomy. Try to understand that in the early centuries of mankinds existence God used His prophets to instruct the Jews, His chosen people, how to survive and prosper. This was to strengthen the race and to help it prosper but also to preserve the line for Jesus to descend from. The entire Old Testament was a prelude to the coming of Jesus. The line of David had to be kept pure...and it was. Sodomy would have weakened the lineage, as would have intermarriage. They were all prohibited. Stoning was an accepted manner of capital punishment in those days and for many centuries following, right into the time of Jesus. Harsh punishment was necessary to keep the Jews morally clean and to set moral and 'legal' standards, all from God, not man. It all had a purpose. God's purpose. What you totally fail to comprehend is that when Jesus came to earth as a man and died for our sins, the 'old covenent' was finished and set aside. Jesus fulfilled all of the Old Testament Law because He was perfect in every way; mind, body and spirit. Jesus said this more than once. He didn't come to negate the OT law, but to fulfill it. He did so, on the cross. Now, as Christians, we live under the New Covenent, based on Jesus' summation of the Ten Commandents as 'To love your God with all your heart, mind and soul" and to 'Love your neighbor as yourself". 'Neighbor' meaning your fellow man. Everyone. Stoning another for some infraction is not necessary for those who love Christ and accept Him as Savior. The obvious necessity to not commit sodomy or to obey your parents is inherent in Jesus life and words...all recorded in the bible - and nowhere else. Your characterization of the bible as full of 'bogus rules meant to control the masses' is right out of the atheists playbook used to attack scripture. How sad that you take the name of Christ and spit on His holy Word in the same breath. How very sad. Quote:
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Go do as you please. I'm not your father or a minister and I won't keep this pointless exchange of messages going as I understand where you right now and I have made my case. Of course, I made it under the assumption I was corresponding with a Christian, not someone who just gives God lip-service and then acts and lives as an atheist. I don't bother to argue with atheists because, like you, they reject the bible out of hand, and so, since my faith and all of Christianity is based on the bible, I have nowhere to go, figuratively or literally, with the atheist. Whatever is in your heart, at this point, I've arrived at the same juncture with you. As you reject the bible as the infallible Word of God, written by men but inspired by God, we no longer have anything to talk about, other than you attempting to justify your rather atheist-like 'belief'. I've read about enough of that so I now part company with you on this overlong thread and wish you, not only well, but that you'll someday realize the folly of your non-belief and rejection of God's Word and come back to real, bible-based faith in the God who loved you enough to send His son to die for you....just as we learned from the bible.
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06-22-2004, 05:10 PM | #7 | |||||||
Huh? Whatcha said?
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Location: Fayetteville, NC
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You're not getting off that easy.
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Moses lived at the same time as Ramesis(sp?), right? Well, we've seen the evidence of him having ran around the Earth. We've seen the evidence that his civilization was in the desert. Even after thousands of years. Now the Egyptians didn't keep records of thier faults, so I don't expect to hear or see anything from them that Moses and the Jews escaped from Egypt. However, there is no record of the Egyptians ever having Jews as slaves, other than the Bible, of course. Ignorance. it's really a shame that you are so narrow minded that you aren't capable of rational thought, or logical thought, rather. We learn more when we ask questions, they may be questions we can't answer, but we still learn from them. It's mind numbing that you are that self diluged(sp?), that you can't see the world before you. Calling me an atheist is not only the single most incoherant thought in the history of man, but it is just plain silly. Quote:
You are undoubtably the most hard headed person I have ever come across. I am willing to bet that you are Catholic. It's just a guess, but are you? There is no reason to argue with you anymore. I have alot to learn aout scripture, I'll admit. You have absolutly no concept of free thinking. You must be the type of person that takes everything at face value. I may not believe the Bible to be what it, and you, claim it to be, but if by divine intervention, or my own recognisince(sp?) I find the answers to my questions, and it brings me closer to God, then isn't that worth my time? I am not concerned whether or not I am a "Christian" by your present deffinition of that word. I am concerned with what my relationship with God is, and no one can tell me how to worship Him, not even the Pope. Until God speaks to me and tells me in His human voice that I am 180 degrees out, I will continue believing what I feel I am supposed to believe. You twist everything I say, making yourself feel like I am denouncing everything you believe in. This is far from the case. Careful that you do not judge what you don't understand. I can understand you questioning my methods, or questions, even my comments, but you don't have the right to call me something I am not. I wish you well on your journy through life. May you be right and I be damned, for your sake. Take care. Later.
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2003 GT White---STOLEN May you burn in hell whoever took it. Dumbazz didn't even get the good engine that was in the garage. Last edited by bigwhitecobra; 06-22-2004 at 06:52 PM.. |
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06-23-2004, 05:21 PM | #8 | |||||||||||||
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Re: You're not getting off that easy.
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The disciples did not all immediately believe that Jesus was truly the Messiah or that He would die for the world's sins, then rise, alive again, after three days. Remember 'doubting Thomas'? He certainly thought that Jesus was dead and buried and had not risen until he saw the nail-holes in Jesus' hands. Judas betrayed Jesus so he obviously never thought Jesus was who He said He was (the Son of God). While many called Jesus 'teacher' (Rabbi) the disciples - before and after the resurrection - called Jesus 'teacher' but they also called Him 'Lord' and worshiped him, not as a mere 'teacher' but as the Son of God, which He was. To say Jesus was just a 'great teacher', which was your inference, insults His power. Quote:
I don't 'like to argue', especially about the bible and Christianity, but I have to defend it and try to correct lies and vast distortions and misunderstands - as you put forth here - when I see them. To ignore your claims and often ridiculous assertations would be remiss of me when I know better. I have no illusions that anything I post will change your opinion. It never does with people who have made up their mind and rejected the bible as the Word of God. That's why I would really like to end this exchange but you won't let me as you keep posting more silly claims and playing atheist 'gotcha! games with scripture. I wish you would knock it off. I do have other sites I like to post on. Quote:
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I wish you well too and if you must have a 'last word', which is fine with me, please don't make it one that forces me to respond because we'll never end this exchange that way and I think we're both weary of each other by now.
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06-23-2004, 07:53 PM | #9 |
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im not getting into this thing here, all i know is, the only way to heaven is by accepting jesus christ, the LORD.
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95 gt vert, lot's of stuff, it aint slow. 04 sonic blue v - six my beater 89 rs camaro iroc turbo hood, other stuff, my wifes ride 84 lx stang cammed up 289 hi po, etc 65 falcon, maybe by the year 2020. black 00gt, gone but never forgotten. R H C- member # 1 o.b.c. da prez- member # 1 if your under 40 dont ask. goodbye for now odie,r.i.p. 11-27-03 |
06-23-2004, 11:03 PM | #10 |
Huh? Whatcha said?
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Fayetteville, NC
Posts: 1,073
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I'm not sure where to start, but I promiss to keep it short. As a matter of faith, it's hard for me to accept a book that if another alien race were to read, would sound more like a fairy tale than truth. I am not calling the Bible a fairy tale, but I am comparing it to one. The basic story of the Bible I believe, and accept. The way to God is through His son Jesus. Ok. I can live with that. I accept that as truth. Is smoking pot a sin? Some say yes, some say no. Personally, I don't care. I don't smoke it, so it doesn't affect me. Some say that smoking a cigerette is a sin, that whole treat your body as a temple thing. I think they're full of it. Obey the laws of the land. Does that mean that if I speed on the street, technically I am indangering my enternal salvation? Doubt it, but whatever. When the Bible ceases to sound a bit loopy to me, which may come with age(read: the closer I get to death) I'll fully accept it as Truth.
There is a God. He isnt the angry, vengeful God everyone makes Him out to be. He loves us. Love Him back. That's all that He wants. Love Him back. I have no reason to feel weary of you. I might not bring up the subject of religion around you in person, only to save both of us a whole bunch of time better spent on countless other things. Don't hessitate to pick on me or razz me for whatever. I don't mind. I too was getting a little frustrated cause I couldn't get what I wanted to say out right. The other crap was just that, crap.I think that both of us were trying to get the upper hand in a battle of wits. Both of us brought a shotgun to this knife fight. It was bound to get a little ugly. Just enough for the other to know that we each believe basically the same thing. Basically. Anyway, it's late and I have school, work, and drag strip tomorrow. Time for me to hit the hay. Later.
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2003 GT White---STOLEN May you burn in hell whoever took it. Dumbazz didn't even get the good engine that was in the garage. |
06-25-2004, 12:26 AM | #11 |
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my head hurts
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