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Any other 01 Cobras out there???
Haven't had a chance to get to the dragstrip yet. Waiting on a few more miles on the car for the chance to hit the strip. Horsepower seems to be badly underrated in the 01 Cobra. Anyone else dyno out there?? Anyone run an 01 Cobra, stock, at the drags yet? Just wanting to compare numbers. Would like to get an idea of what times to expect. Sure does seem to be a different beast than the previous two GT's that I owned. I think Ford got this one right.
DT ------------------ |
Dude, Props on the nice car! I'd kill for those new head lights!!!
Haven't seen any other 01 Cobras posting yet... I guess it's soon to come! Come to think of it there is a 99+ Cobra in the Female forum if I'm not mistaken... You should check! |
Lizard: The 01 is quite a bit diferent from the 99's. Hopeing the car is a bit quicker. Thanks
Danny ------------------ |
Cajun,
How much different are the 01s from the 99s other than the performance bugs are supposed to be worked out? I've been keeping my eye on a 01 Cobra at the local dealership. It's a sweet car and I'm surprised it's still there. ------------------ ************************ 1999 GT - Laser Red K&N, Steeda pulleys, Steeda strut tower brace & Tri-ax (Upcoming mods: subframes (bought), Bassani X (next), & FMS 3.73s |
Ripper: The owner of the local Ford Dealership and I raced boats together for 2 years. We are very close, like brothers, close. I really happened to buy this Cobra quite by accident. I had a supercharged Focus and was looking into buying either a Baby Grand or Legend racecar. I have previously owned 2 Mustang GT's. After he told me about the 01 Cobra, my mind was made up. Why not own a car that I can drive to work, charge off on my business, and race every day, instead of once a month. According to him: Ford released the 99 Cobras with much less than quoted horsepower. With the bad publicity, Mustang SVT division was told to either get it right or don't build it, hence, no 2000 Cobras. Now for the 01 Cobra. Ford boasts 320hp at 6000 rpm, bull!!!
My car with 2100 miles on it dynoed 338 rwhp@6600 rpm with a DiabloSport chip installed. The 01 Cobra has independent rear suspension. It is without a doubt, the finest riding, best handling Mustang that I have ever driven. Ford SVT literature claims that the car will run 150 mph, again wrong! I have had the car to 155, I didn't believe it, put my GPS and radar gun inside, sure enough, 155 mph. I don't know if it will run any faster, I ran out of road. SVT literature boasts the car will quarter mile in 13.7 seconds, wrong again, it ran 12.96 on DOT road race tires, at 85 degree temperatures with 100% humidity. So far, everything that Ford has boasted in the SVT manual has been underquoted. If you can buy the car for Sticker Price, GET IT. The largest dealer in Houston had one Cobra, white, he wanted $5000.00 over sticker. The average price at all Southern Ford dealers is $3500 over sticker. Through my buddy at the dealership here, I got mine for sticker, he is not an SVY dealer, so he could not sell or transfer any SVT's here. He did, however, use one of his favors with a SVT dealer in Mobile, Alabama to get the car at sticker. Go and drive the car, you will crave it. Be sure to turn off the traction control when driving the Cobra. The orange light will be on when the traction control is off. The traction control senses wheel spin and applies the rear brakes to control spin, it sucks!!! I have yet to find anything that I am not pleased with on this car. The stereo is awesome, the power is intimidating, the car is beautiful. Give me your e-mail address and I will e-mail you a few pics. Or give me a call at 1-888-544-4626. Thanks Danny ------------------ |
So other than the inconsistencies in production, the car is virtually indentical from 99 to 01 ... right?
338 rwhp@6600 = about 320 at the crankshaft, right? |
Lizard: I think that 320 crank hp would be much less at the rear wheels. Most cars lose 20-30hp through the drivetrain. I am only relaying what was told to me by the dealer. I have never even seen a 99 Cobra. From what he says, the 99 Cobras were not making the horsepower that Ford claimed they were. 338 rear wheel hp should work out to about 350 crankshaft hp. But, this is with a chip, the chip adds about 12-15 hp.
Thanks Danny ------------------ |
Cajun, you're killing me. I'm breaking out into a sweat just thinking about that Cobra waiting for me at the dealership. Thanks for the pics offer but believe me, I have pictures of these cars all over the place. I think I'm a Stang junkie.
------------------ ************************ 1999 GT - Laser Red K&N, Steeda pulleys, Steeda strut tower brace & Tri-ax (Upcoming mods: subframes (bought), Bassani X (next), & FMS 3.73s |
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------------------ Black 2000 GT Magnaflow mufflers, K&N Steeda springs, subs, strut tower, CC plates |
338 multiplied by 1.18 for 18% drivetrain loss would give 398 HP at the crank! Holy crap Batman!
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I agree, post the dyno slip... also what was the mph when you ran that 12.96?
------------------ 92 AOD GT, K&N, ram air, pulleys, 2 ch. flowmasters, 4:10's, shift kit, 1 5/8 mac longtubes and offroad hpipe 14.249 @ 97.34 mph before the headers and hpipe |
http://www.trainboard.com/smiles/055.gif I'm sooo embrassed ... (and on crack http://www.trainboard.com/smiles/072.gif j/k)
In my little world, for a fraction of a minute, the cars gained from the crankshaft to the wheels!!!! Wouldn't it be a great world if it could be true ... http://www.trainboard.com/smiles/008.gif |
Cut this guy some slack will ya!! Maybe they put the Cobra R engine in by mistake at the factory http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/rolleyes.gif
------------------ 90 Honda CRX aka Project Mongoose Estimated Completion: 7/1/01 453 horses with a stock head...built head and LSD on the way 84 Toyota Supra High flow cat, two chamber flowmaster, custom 2.5" piping, msd 8.5mm wires. Will have boost before 2002. Have HKS turbo manifold for it:D.....T04e next week |
Let me point out your OWN inconsistancies here cajun. Well atfirst you said your waiting to get it broken in to race it, yet you made a dyno run? Same thing. Then you say you ran 12.96, but I thought you were waiting to break it in to race it? I think your dyno was way off or your way out of it.
Skyler ------------------ -1989 Saleen Mustang #406- TFS Heads, E-303, edelbrock intake,70MM TB, 73mm MAF, off road H, headers and 3chamber flows. 12.55@107mph Going for 11's on 87 octane with A/C and 20+MPG!!! |
You know, it would really hurt if he came up with those Dyno papers. Cuz 338 rwhp sounds like an R to me! =)
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Motor Trend TV dynoed a Cobra R and got 378 rwhp. MM&FF scored 371.8rwhp, so he doesn't have a Cobra R
------------------ GT-40 heads (ported, polished, + milled), B303 cam, 1.7rr's, JE pistons, Offy intake, Carter AFB 625cfm carb, Flowtech 1 5/8" shortys, Flowtech X-pipe, MAC Flowpath exhaust, MAC pulleys, 373's, subframes, Eibachs+Tokicos, B+M ripper, FMS Clutch, Zoom Quadrant+cable, 17" CSA Ultra rims, 235/45ZR17 Yokohama AVS S4's, MSD 6A ignition+coil, FMS 9mm wires, Carbed, Naturally Aspirated, and Nasty! |
Something is still not right if the Cobra R has dynoed at 370+ RWHP and it's suppose to have only 385hp at the flywheel. IF the RWHP is correct, that would be a tremendously underrated motor by flywheel numbers.
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For 17% driveline loss you cannot multiply by 1.17 to come up with an accurate number.
You must either multiply by .17 and add that number to the rwhp, or divide by .83 (1-.17). In this case you're stating 18% loss, which would equate to 412hp at the flywheel. 398 x 1.18 is not the same as 338 / (1-.18). When taken in that context adding and subtracting within a product is not communicative. Regardless, the solid post fix Cobra's were dynoing at 280rwhp, which equates to about 337hp at the flywheel. That's 70hp less than this Cobra dynoed at. I'm not gonna call BS on this, just cause I want it to be true, I really really doubt it, but hey, I can dream!!!! You cannot use a flat rate for approximate loss of power at the wheels for all cars. Here's why, the friction is directly related to the amount of force put onto the transitional surfaces within the driveline. The faster it accelerates and the more power exerted on it, the less net gain you'll have. So adding 100 crank hp will net you about 83hp at the wheels with a 5spd. The AOD is not nearly so forgiving, at 22% driveline loss you only add 78hp at the wheels per 100hp at the crank, the C4 should be around 19% loss. If the Cobra R really dyno's at 370rwhp, it's got 450hp at the crank with the 6spd. In a stripped lightend chassis it should run 11's no problems with traction. Let's not forget some dyno's allow for changing parameters within the software, when you do that, you wind up with a less accurate hp measuring. Like the Superflow Dyno's for Motorcyles vs the Dynojet models. |
Ripper: That's what I've been trying to tell you, the car is UNDERRATED. I sure don't recall saying anything about "breaking it in". I got the chance Sunday to run the car, and took it. Read back, I said a few more miles on it. I have run 3 different cars on this dyno, so far, I don't find the dyno anywhere near as demanding as drag-racing the car. The ecu on a Ford product is completely programmed ("broken-in") with 20 heat and cool cycles of the automobile.
Top speed at the drag was 105 mph. LT1Z28: I don't know how many cars you have personally dynoed or watched dynoed, but, where did you get the 18% set figure for driveline loss. How in the world can a Mustang R dyno 378 rwhp with an engine producing 385 crankshaft hp????UNDERRATED Check out the R at the strip, I would be willing to bet that the car is much faster than the literature SVT puts out. Read the SVT literature; Ford claims different 0-60 times, different 1/4 mile times, and different top speeds on the 99 and 01 Cobras, WHY????? I don't know what Ford did differently, but, they did something different or all numbers would be copies. I am not trying to start any arguments. I didn't mean to step on any toes. DT |
Unit5302: You could be absoloutely correct, it could be a bad dyno number. As I stated, I have only dynoed 3 vehicles, not an expert by any means. I didn't mean to start any wars, I was only trying to get other numbers to compare to. Trying to see if these are legit numbers. I didn't realize that everyone would get so defensive. The drag times are, however, correct.
The "R" did dyno 378 rwhp and boasts 385 hp. Thanks for your input, you lend an air of intelligence. Thanks DT |
One difference between the 99 and 01 Cobra is the ecu program. The codes for the 99's that I can locate are ZMR2 and LXT0.
The code for the 01 is MSE3. I know that Ford has successfully increased horsepower in other vehicles by playing with the ecu programming much the same way that the aftermarket chip companies are doing. Later DT |
The computer may be different, look at the A9L cars versus the Cobra computer. That's a huge difference, or even the 94-95GT's. You can pick up a lot by swapping computers. A lot being 20hp.
I've seen dyno tunes on modified cars lend 40hp to the final result. The whole reason you are being put under the microscope here is simple, Cajun. People see you posting as a new member with what appears to be highly questionable numbers based on similar cars. Noteably, the 99 Cobra. |
There is tons of potential to be unlocked from the electonics in a vehicle. I am two semesters away from a degree in Electrical and Computer Engineering. I spoke with a local speed shop and the owner (an ex-Ford Electrical Engineer) told me about the potential. He said that when he was at Ford, they tested a stock mustang and unleashed close to 100 (flywheel) horsepower from the electronics. Tomorrow my buddy's '01 Lightning is going on the dyno at Livernois Performance for a custom burnt chip. I will post a scan of the stock v. pro-m maf and chip if possible.
Jason |
Hmmm 338rwhp and you're saying your highest trap speed was 105? ..... http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/rolleyes.gif
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Thanks for the rectification unit 5302.
Cajun, I don't dyno cars, it jsut seems to be the numbers posted by engine builders on car boards, around 16-18% loss for a manual and 20-22% for an auto. That's all I know. I wasn't calling BS at all, I was showing my surprise/enthousiasm about your post. |
LT1: My apologies. I don't routinely dyno cars either. That is why I asked about other 01's. The dyno numbers could be something else on another dyno. I have been told that different dynos and different operators can and will get different numbers, again, I don't know. The top speed could be driver, I don't know. I do know what the time and speed were. I ran with a 00 (Camaro)(Firebird)????GM SS, he ran a 12.99. I don't know what he had done to his car.
I do know that we can gain 130hp and 250 ft/lb torque on a Powerstroke diesel by altering the ecu program by adding a chip. So, electronics are a major part of the performance game. Later DT |
That's the problem with letters, they don't show the emotions behind them.
Yes I heard the same thing about dyno's. I was told to use always the same shop to measure improvements between mods to avoid inacuracies between dynos. The drivetrain loss is certainly no exact science either. The guy at the speedshop was telling me my M6 was loosing 22% power through the drivetrain... yeah right! ECU programming is definitely an easy way to get power, I wonder often why car manufacturers program the cars so conservatively. Even on sports cars like Cobras! It must be for emissions and reliability reasons. [This message has been edited by LT1 Z28 (edited 05-08-2001).] |
the reason why the powerstrokes see such increases is due to the fact that the chip alters the boost levels...... more boost= more power
its harder to get big gains from chip upgrades on an NA car. |
spinemup is exactly right. Superchip+my stang = ~5hp. Superchip + Power stroke Diesel = ~100hp. Since the chip can raise boost on the diesel, but only alter air/fuel to the NA stang, it cant do ANYWHERE near as much.
Cajun: No one is strictly calling BS on you (yet) I think cause we all would kind of like to believe the cobra hp claims. Again, please post a dyno slip so we can see for ourselves. Thanks. ------------------ Black 2000 GT Magnaflow mufflers, K&N Steeda springs, subs, strut tower, CC plates |
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From the looks of it you would need about 338HP to get a 12.96 given ideal conditions and taking in account that you weigh about 180-200lbs. |
LOL!!!!
Lizard are you serious???? 338rwhp should get low 12's with traction, and trap speeds far in excess of 110mph. I'm sure the 220rwhp in the newer GT's could only get you into the high 14's. Har har har. |
223.5 RWHP in my '66 coupe with a C-4 get's me 13.97/100.3. Race wt. is 3260. Incidently, I beleive my driveline efficiency with the C-4 is only about 75%. Drivelines with standard transmissions have an efficiency of about 83% according to Ford. Don't know what the AOD's are supposed to be.
Rev ------------------ '66 Coupe, 306, 300 HP, C-4, 13.97 e.t., 100.3 mph 1/4 mi. |
Rev and Unit, I simply used the calculator on the side ... it seems to use at the crank HP, not RWHP.
It actually made some sense when I entered my possible gains from taking the headlight out. ... at 284HP I get a 13.71. Can you guys believe that... head light out I go from 260 to 284HP... is RAM Air good for a 24HP gain? |
The Stang Analyzer is just an estimator. http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/wink.gif What it comes up for isn't written in stone. There are so many things that it cannot figure on when judging how quick you can run the 1/4 based on hp.
Lizard King, I would bet your car is making better than 260hp stock, factory performance can differ +/- a good few percent. 5% difference would mean 13hp on a new GT. I doubt ram air is giving you more than 10hp. Your time picks up about a tenth, right? That would be closer to 10hp than 25. |
Cajun, sorry for coming off harsh on you. I believe your dyno numbers completely. I was in the same boat as you a while back. My car dynoed 332rwhp. And my best mph at the track is 107.0mph with a shortbelt, and probably a lighter chassis than you. I think both of us got screwed on the dyno somewhere, because I well expected 112mph out of my car with that kind of RWHP. Nice dyno numbers, but I think something is off, as with when I dynoed my car.
Skyler 332rwhp@5500rpm 351rwtq@3750rpm ------------------ -1989 Saleen Mustang #406- TFS Heads, E-303, edelbrock intake,70MM TB, 73mm MAF, off road H, headers and 3chamber flows. 12.55@107mph Going for 11's on 87 octane with A/C and 20+MPG!!! |
Skyman: Could very well be. That is why I asked if anyone else had dynoed. I'm kinda new to the dyno "GAME", it evidently is a game. Seems like the operators can and do make it read pretty much whatever they want it to. I didn't know that before.
Later ------------------ |
Powerstroke chips don't alter boost level, rather they alter the injection timing and fuel delivery. More fuel means more power and boost. Of course you need a free flowing way of getting it in and out (conical filter, bigger downpipe and 5 inch exhaust on big chips).
I have talked with many different calibrators and they said it depends on the car, but most of the time chips are even done conservatively by chip manufacturers. They sell chips for all cars by a base program (a "safe" program). All cars are different and by tailoring to the different needs you unlock the potential. This is especially true on modified cars with stock computers. |
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------------------ 90 Honda CRX aka Project Mongoose Estimated Completion: 7/1/01 453 horses with a stock head...built head and LSD on the way 84 Toyota Supra High flow cat, two chamber flowmaster, custom 2.5" piping, msd 8.5mm wires. Will have boost before 2002. Have HKS turbo manifold for it:D.....T04e next week |
well first off i think gt is saying it alters injector timing and inferno is thinking ignition timing. diesels dont have a distributer or spark plugs... so i can understand how it could alter injector timing and fuel curve but in order to get big power gains im almost positive the stock boost level is "upped" a notch.... but im not a powerstroke tuner so i really dont know much.
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Sorry Guys: The DiabloSport and the Superchip do raise the boost on Powerstrokes. Some PSD's even have an alarm status come on in the form of "Service Engine Soon" light. It goes out about 15-20 seconds after boost drops below alarm level. The chip could not add fuel without adding the proper amount of boost, too much black smoke. Stock boost on a 01 PSD is about 14psi, with a 50hp chip about 18psi, with a 78hp chip about 20-22 psi.
Still wish someone else would dyno an 01 Cobra. You guys have me doubting everything now. Later Cajun |
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#2 That's why just about everybody knows out of the box chips don't add **** for hp. #3 Unlocking the potenital can give you 20hp on a stock Mustang, maybe a couple more, and on cars with significant mods, you usually see a gain of about 40hp. I don't know if it was you or somebody else, but somebody was babbling about 100hp flywheel from electronics on a 5.0. LOL!!! Do you honestly think if that were true the guy that figured that out wouldn't be a gazillionaire by now? Not even a ricer would make that claim. Bottom line, don't believe everything a washed up old Ford ex-engineer tells you. [This message has been edited by Unit 5302 (edited 05-10-2001).] |
100 flywheel hp from a chip in a 5.0, not in this lifetime. We can add over 100hp to a Powerstroke with a chip, but, you are playing with a 7.3 liter engine with a huge turbocharger, with tons of potential. If I recall, the best gain with a chip in a gasoline engine is for a Buick Grand National, we can increase it by 50hp and 55 ft/lb torque. This is a unique situation. Most cars are lucky to gain 20hp.
Later DT |
What I am saying is that boost is not set in the computer. A diesel motor is very different than a gas motor. The boost is determined by other levels that are upped in the motor. The chips increase boost by upping fuel requirements. There are mods you can do to trick the computer into thinking it has boost as idle to have more acceleration. This mod uses a check valve to hold pressure against the MAP sensor and fools it into thinking it has boost at idle already, in turn the computer dumps fuel as if it were pulling boost. You can pump tons of fuel into a diesel and make it run mad, as long as the EGT's don't get drastically high.
Unit don't call me a ricer. I am the farthest thing from it. Have you ever done any calibrations with a computer or any kind of sensor programming? I bet not, and if you did you could believe that 100 fly-wheel horsepower is not impossible. It is definitely a spectacular feat, but not impossible. I know it sounds far fetched, but nothing is impossible, and I don't know exactly how "stock" this mustang was. It was a test mule. So who knows. Boost is not a set number, and go to www.Ford-Diesel.com and see that every truck is different as far as boost levels go. I have seen stock '97 PSD's go to 19-20 lbs of boost with a conical filter and straight piping the exhaust. Putting a different downpipe on nets another lb or two of boost. Please don't flame me, I have a PSD, and I have researched into chips and many other things. Think about what I said, the chip does not itself increase boost to a set number, but increased fuel and airflow in and out of the motor increases boost. The turbo just works off of the efficiency of the motor, more fuel in a diesel means more heat, and more heat is better for a turbine (which is essentially what a turbo is) which is translated into more boost, if sufficient air volume is there. Jason [This message has been edited by 88GT5.013.02 (edited 05-11-2001).] |
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"senses" better airflow into the engine and adjusts the wastegate accordingly. Exhaust will raise boost levels because the turbine doesn't have to work as hard to expel the exhaust gases(back pressure on a turbo engine is bad). The turbo will spool quicker and therefore be able to reach slightly higher boost on the same wastegate settings. The chip alters the computer control of the wastegate AND adds more fuel to compensate for the added boost levels. You really need to do more research on how turbos work if you think by adding fuel boost levels will go up. ------------------ 90 Honda CRX aka Project Mongoose Estimated Completion: 7/1/01 453 horses with a stock head...built head and LSD on the way 84 Toyota Supra High flow cat, two chamber flowmaster, custom 2.5" piping, msd 8.5mm wires. Will have boost before 2002. Have HKS turbo manifold for it:D.....T04e next week |
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Maybe these people are mistaken, but I would take their word over yours, seing that they own these trucks and some of these people are Ford Techs on that website. I do not claim to be an expert about this stuff, so I will not try to make any more claims, so this won't turn into anything other than a debate. I don't want this to turn into a mudslinging match. So let's keep this debate what it is, a debate. I am willing to learn if I am wrong, that is why I come to these websites. So don't flame me and try to make me look stupid if you think I am wrong. Just give me your opinion not smart remarks. [This message has been edited by 88GT5.013.02 (edited 05-11-2001).] |
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------------------ 90 Honda CRX aka Project Mongoose Estimated Completion: 7/1/01 453 horses with a stock head...built head and LSD on the way 84 Toyota Supra High flow cat, two chamber flowmaster, custom 2.5" piping, msd 8.5mm wires. Will have boost before 2002. Have HKS turbo manifold for it:D.....T04e next week |
You are correct on the newer (99 and up Super Duty's). No offense taken. I like a good debate every now and then. I know that you are pretty knowledgable. I respect that enough that I went and double checked on the diesel site to make sure I didn't look like an a$$.
No harm done. Jason |
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