Bad News to Hear through the Grapevine!
 

OK, here's an e-mail I recieved. I thought everyone should read this and be informed. IF IT'S NOT TRUE DO NOT BLAME ME!!!! :D

E-MAIL RECIEVED BY REDLILPONY

While this post is specifically about Ford Trucks, I believe
it pertains to all Ford 2003 products. Therefore, I am
posting this message in several places as I think anyone
thinking of purchasing a 2003 or later Ford should be
aware of.

I have had 4 Ford autos in my life. The last three were
purchased new. The last auto was a 1997 Ford T-Bird,
which I am very pleased with and plan to own it, till the
wheels fall off.

My last purchase, a few weeks ago, was a new Ford
Truck. Normally I would be very happy as a new truck
owner. However that is not the case.
There is something in the owners manual that
I think everyone should be aware of before you purchase
a new 2003 Ford. On page 5 and 6 of the owners manual
of my truck is the following:

"Event Data Recorder

The computer in your vehicle is capable of recording
detailed data potentially including but not limited to information
such as:

* the use of restraint systems including seat belts
by the driver and passengers,

* information about the performance of various systems
and modules in the vehicle, and

* information related to engine, throttle, steering, brake
or other system status potentially including information
related to how the driver operates the vehicle including but
not limited to vehicle speed

This information may be stored during regular operation or in
a crash or near crash event. This stored information may be
read out and used by:

* Ford Motor Company.

* service and repair facilities.

* law enforcement or government agencies.

* others who may assert a right or obtain your consent
to know such information.

*************** End Quote

Please note, the entire manual is written by engineers, except
for this one subject. Can you see the legalneese in it ?
Hint: " detailed data potentially including but not limited to "

Needless to say, I am extremely upset about this. I am sure
that most of you can understand the legal aspect of this, but
allow me to underline it.
My Ford Truck ( and I think this applies to other 2003
Ford products ) can be used in a court of law against
me, by law enforcement, or by anyone who decides
to sue me. Never mind that I may be completely innocent. Anyone
who has ever sat on a jury, may very well know that its not a
lawyers job to present the truth, but to win their case.

Put another way. If I was going through a Green light, doing
35 mph in a 40 mph zone, and someone else T-bones me,
running a red-light doing 45 mph. Late at night with no witness.
I would most likely loose the case. Consider this. My Ford
will be testifying that I never applied the brakes to avoid an
accident among other things. The other guys car, will be
smart enough to not testify against him. Now add to this,
a traffic fatality and you could start to understand what this
invasion of privacy can do.

I have done some research on this for the last few weeks and
have been able to determine the following. I welcome any
corrections if anyone has direct knowledge.

* This is not a government requirement, but one put forth by
Ford on its own. So it is not required by the government. (yet)

* The recorder is part of the airbag module and will record
several hundred miles of data, that can be studied in detail
at a later point in time.

* There is no GPS involved. Who needs one, when all it
takes is to use the steering directions coupled with speed,
brakes, acceleration, ect, to determine just where you have
been. ( Do I see Divorce Atty's grinning )

I think what I have stated here is only the tip of the iceberg.
What can be done with this information is only limited to the
imagination of our legal professionals.

On a positive note, I really like the truck, as it is just what I
ordered. Except for the Data Event recorder, I am happy
with it. I have never been involved in any serious accident
(other then the parking lot tap on the fender )But I am
driving a law suit waiting to happen.

I have just received my New Car Customer Survey.
If any of you feel as strong as I do about this, then put it in
writing to

Ford Customer Viewpoint
P.O.Box 930
Ann Arbor, MI. 48106-0930

Or go by your local Ford Dealer, and inquire about this yourself.
Let them know. If Ford gets enough complaints, then "maybe"
they will change. Sorry, I could not find a web site that allowed
e-mails directly to Ford Motor Corporation. Most Ford
dealerships do have e-mail addresses.

Sign me as
Only Pre 2002 model Fords for me.
Bruce

I have heard a little bit about this, but my understanding was that several manufacturers are doing this, randomly, and would use the info gathered to make the vehicle safer in the future, rather than as a legal tool against the owner.

Take care,
~Chris

Actually, I saw just recently on a news report that this system has already been used by law enforcement and insurance agencies in court to win cases! It's basically the equivalent of a "black box" in your car. I think it sucks, and personally the first thing I'd want to do is figure out if there is any way to disable it.

Thats exactly what I was thinking. How could someone disable it? Darn, I should have studied Electrical Engineering instead of Mechanical. NAh......what am I saying?:D

I agree its an invasion of privacy. If I by an 03' or later I will be aware of this.

Welcome to the precursor to OBD-III. They've been planning this for some time, and in fact some Corvettes already have this little "black box" in them. Eventually, it seems the citation for an accident will be done with a scan tool! :eek: My advice: pack a hammer next to the box, just in case of emergencies. ;)

Okay, that last point was just a joke, but I'm pretty sure someone will come up with a fix for it sooner or later. Mebbe one of the custom chip/programming speed shops???

Actually, a lot of cars already have this feature now, It's been around since the introduction of OBDII, some cars have had them since the early 90's. However , law enforcement does not have the ability to use them yet, nor do they provide as much detail as is perceived. Most give an average (Seatbelt is used ??% of the time, average speed etc.) Car companies use it for studying crap....

Ford is just the first to stick something in the manual....CYA

I can tell you for sure that all our 98-up police Interceptors have them....

But how much information is retrievable, usable, legal for court...I don't know.

Re: Bad News to Hear through the Grapevine!
 

It won't say anything about whose light was red or green...an investigator would probably know whether you hit your brakes or not anyway, there are lots of ways to tell. The Chief of my department is a nationally recognised accident reconstructionist...I'm trying to learn from him.

Ahhh.... I love my '88 notch THAT much more now..... and I hate Ford THAT much more now....

:rolleyes:

your guys/gals sure Microsoft has anything to do with this?:confused:

i wouldnt worry about it for now. in the future yes. besides, the scan tool may be a special tool from the one i use now, and if it is, only the dealer will have it.

Don't believe emails. Go to the source.

Re: Bad News to Hear through the Grapevine!
 

:mad:
i wouldn't worry about it, if it becomes too big of a hasle, there will be people to hack that code an bypass all that "lil parental control big brother crap". in fact, give it enough time an the sport tuner chips, Diablo, Jacobs, JET..etc will be able to bypass the code an keep your peformance good.

nothing is safe,or hacker proof...nothing.

i think auto makers have been doin this for a while tho.. but i don't beleive it can be used as evidence in proscution.

and again agreeing wth SRV, go to the source, not rumor.

I don't think things are quite as bad as you describe. Obviously the courts would have to realize that someone could fly through a red light and t-bone you and there's no way you would know to hit your brakes, well, hopefully. This won't go away. Every day more and more laws are being put out that make it legal for the government to monitor you, such as cameras set up on the streets with face recognition technology. It's happening everywhere, within a few years you won't be able to "back up" audio cd's on your computer because of hardware based protections(meaning software hacks are impossible). It's in Holling's bill <-- california senator I believe. Nobody hears about the laws till they've already been passed and by then it's too late to do anything about them except complain about how we have no rights. [/rant]
sorry, stuff like this just pisses me off. If the Holling's bill were to pass in it's current state you're computer would be nothing more than an extremely expensive dvd player.

What you describe has been part of the air bag control unit for some time, and not just on Fords. In fact i believe it went from very simple data recovery for the air bag mfg. to a little more detailed on the GM cars and trucks first.
It is scary what they can discern from that module, such as before an air bag deployment or even a near deployment... if you were on or off the throttle at that time or if you were on or off the brakes at that moment ... what your speed was ... how many times the engine has been started since the event etc. etc. .... and these little modules are getting more and more sophisticated by the day ! Big brother isn't coming folks hes here.
This you can count on ... in the near future you'll either give your insurance company access to that data or you won't get insurance, i'll bet money on it.

I too can bet money on that, I'll stay with me '65 mustang anytime thank u very much:cool:

When I read it, I was worried about auto companies giving someone a hard time about warranty claims. I can hear the service managers now saying how you went past redline and dumped the clutch at 6000 rpms.

Of course, I'm sure they are legally obligated to fix it, but I bet they make it more of a hassle on the owner.

I'm not sure about ALL GM vehicles, but I know that the Vette, Camaro, & Firebird have had then for some time.. If the computer throws a code, it records what gear, speed, rpms & some other things. It keeps a record of the number of times you hit the rev limiter(SP) & some cars keep track of # of times above a certain speed. There is a dealer about 2 hrs from me who let 2 guys take a new SS out for a test drive.. They wrecked it!! When they recovered the data, it showed they had been doing over 120 (124, I think) when they lost control b/c of water supposedly. They are now suing or have sued the guy for the price of the car..