Before buying a new Ford consider this.

[Lizard King]

According to Ford, any modifications applied to a Ford vehicle is considered an instant void of warranty, and as a buyers of their product we should be aware of this. They are playing by the rule book.

These modifications include visual & performance. In my case an exaust modification is voiding my rear-end warranty. Doesn't make much sense. Ford knows this is a grey area, but will actually wait for legal action to commence to consider your case.

I am not going through the trouble of a legal pursuit on $107 in parts and 4 hours of shop labor. This is ridiculous. Even with this in mind they do not change their mind.

The rearend part that needed to be changed was the front bearing assembly, which is only under pressure under deceleration. Not acceleration. Even with this information Ford doesn't change its mind.

Jason Keay owner of JK Ford Lincoln confirmed putting an exaust on my car should not be a problem in 2002. When asked again after Ford voided my warranty, his statement is 'Ford's guidelines are changing, warranty is now more strict'. Ford's headoffice answer is the guidelines never changed. Read the owners manual you got when you purchased your vehicle.

According to them I am lucky to have gotten the warranty services up to now. 'People like me/us should expect this to happen when we modify a vehicle'.

My beef is not having to pay this amount. My beef is in the principal of leasing a vehicle - peace of mind of having a car that has warranty.

Even when I explained to Martino Catalano, Product Liability Specialist at headoffice that his legal position is nul, and that I have half a foot precedents from other cases at our legal office here that show his case holds no water, his opinions does not change. He knows no one in their right mind bother with small amounts like that.

It is scary to see how Ford doesn't give credit to loyal clients. This is not my first Ford vehicle, and I had every intentions on leasing the 05 coming up.

I told Mr. Catalano, Ford's position in this case is troublesome enough - It will cost them the sale of a 05 Stang and a life time customer... - no change of opinion.

Just thought I would share my experience with Ford's legal department. I am obviously disapointed.

[xxxBlakexxx]

Once upon a time, I was the proud owner of a 1990 Dodge Daytona. I drove that car for 18 months and put 37k on it. Problem is, I moved to Ca after the first few months and had divability problems. The car could not run on Ca gas. The car was equipped with a V-6 (first time ever), but they were never sold in Ca because they were aware of this problem.

After months of dicking with Chrysler, I sued them. I won under the lemon law. I wonder how the current lemon laws are written to cover modifications? What Ford is trying to do is "understandable", but at the same time rediculous and unfair. Changing one component should not void an entire warrenty.

Anyone out there a lawyer? Can you check into this? The federal laws in regards to warrenties and lemon laws are VERY clear. I have to believe that Ford knows these same laws...that's the scary part.

As far as me (and I am now being selfish), my car is no longer under a new car warrenty. I do have an after market warrenty, though, which I should probably just "cash in".

I would also, in principal, never modify a car I was leasing. Lease rules are MUCH different than owning a car.

[RBatson]

Have you tried a different dealership?

I understand what you are saying, I've had problems with Dodge. I will never own another Chrysler vehicle yet they still send me **** about special deals they are having. I wrote them a very personal note telling them I wouldn't even consider owning a Chrysler product again(probably 8 yrs ago) and to stop sending crap to my house and yet it still comes. I don't know the whole story but I also don't know what is going on in thier minds.. losing a life-long customer.. I would think that is a big deal. You have to realize you are dealing with peons on the phone, try another dealership. The dealership can make a world of difference.

[Lizard King]

Voiding the warranty in this case was done in direct by Headoffice. Came to the dealer to do it. No matter which dealer I go to my car is flagged.

I work at a lawyer's office. Am I the office manager. It costs me virtually nothing to sue them. Their legal grounds are not convincing... but I will not waste so much time of my life for $400. The time is worth more to me in company of my wife and kid, or working as contractor @ $90/hr.

What they are doing is understandable, but considering my call to them, I think their position should change to understandable as well. I have consulted my dealership about the mods... and it wasn't an issue. They fixed my car time after time before with the mods... and it was NOT an issue.

The car got flagged because it hit a certain amount repairs... headoffice cam in... and decided to use the mod reason to void the warranty.

[Mr 5 0]

Welcome to the reality of claiming warranty repairs, which manufacturers hate and dealers are not thrilled about, either. I'm not the least bit surprised that once you hit a certain amount of warranty repair costs (to Ford) your car was 'flagged' and they did some loophole-searching to find a way to cut you off. It could have been anything but a modification is a handy excuse, even, as you note, it isn't that much money involved. The loss of you as a customer is clearly of no concern to them and they know you won't go to court for $400. so they consider it a 'win'. No more free repairs for your Ford. It's been modified you see. You lose. Bye now.

I accept the fact that Ford is a business, albeit a huge one, and they are always looking at the bottom line. Fine. What I see is a clear distinction between the short and long term benefits and that Ford is ignoring that. They stop any more free repairs on your car is the short-term win. You never buy another Ford and tell as many people as you can, which, when done via the internet, means thousands - and Ford loses many potential sales down the road is the long-term loss, but Ford doesn't care. Fine.

I'm not sure if GM, Honda or Toyota care either but I'll probably not buy another new Ford. Not simply because of this one example of corporate arrogance and short-sightedness but because of their 'quality issues' and other negative perceptions I've been getting about Ford. This example of stupidity and a 'screw the customer' corporate attitude is simply another reason to look harder at the many other manufacturers out there making quality cars - cars that don't need a lot of warranty work.

[Capri306]

I'll get my response to the original thread post out of the way first. By reading what was posted, this is a LEASE vehicle? Why would you ever modify a leased vehicle? Did they not explain you have to return it after the lease is up? I mean, it's not like you own it or anything. Kinda like knocking out walls in an apartment building, ya know?

Having said that, I do agree Ford is STUPID about their warranty policies. I fail to see how one totally unrelated modification voids the entire warranty, as in your case. Ford is simply counting on people NOT taking them to court, which is a modern (but HORRIBLE) business practice. Kinda like how they calculated how many people would die in rearend-collision-induced explosions of Pintos. Same beat, different song. Personally, I fail to see the use of even having a warranty if the car won't last much past 100k miles anyway, but that's just me.

Originally Posted by Mr 5 0

What I see is a clear distinction between the short and long term benefits and that Ford is ignoring that. They stop any more free repairs on your car is the short-term win. You never buy another Ford and tell as many people as you can, which, when done via the internet, means thousands - and Ford loses many potential sales down the road is the long-term loss, but Ford doesn't care. Fine.

I'm not sure if GM, Honda or Toyota care either but I'll probably not buy another new Ford. Not simply because of this one example of corporate arrogance and short-sightedness but because of their 'quality issues' and other negative perceptions I've been getting about Ford. This example of stupidity and a 'screw the customer' corporate attitude is simply another reason to look harder at the many other manufacturers out there making quality cars - cars that don't need a lot of warranty work.

I second Mr. 5.0 for pointing out Ford's overall shortsightedness and $hit quality over the past decade or so. He's right; it's as if they don't even CARE that neither I nor my family will EVER BUY ANOTHER FORD AGAIN. You'd think this would be tragic to Ford if you considered that I used to be a die-hard Ford fan. Apparently, they don't care enough to keep a "Fan Base" alive these days.

Fine Ford, don't live up to your self-imposed Q1 standards, crap on your customers, and keep making crap. I'll just keep buying Hondas since Honda, not you, seems to CARE about whether I'm happy with my cars or not and they want to keep my business.

Seriously, is anyone else just saying "DUH?!?!" to all this? Isn't keeping customers how you make money in the long term? If you owned a manufacturing (well, Ford doesn't make much anymore, they're really just assemblers) business, wouldn't you want to create products that were competitive and long-lasting so you'd expand your customer base?

Yay Mustang, Boo Ford.

[KiltedBanshees93GT]

I think this is another example of something that I've noticed lately, which has probibly always happened, but becomes more apparent now in the world of "mega-corporations".
You have a business, started by an entrepenuer [sp?] with a vision, usually admirable, almost always revolutionary. The business takes off, and for a while, things are good, both for the public and company/employees. Eventually the founder moves on/dies/is replaced by the directors, whothen bring in what I call the "Sharks". These types have nothing vested in the company, or the original philosophy, and are only loyal to the salary. They "change focus" for the company toward the short term bottom line, alienate the customers, frustrate the employees, crap out the product, anything to make bigger checks.
At first, no one, or not enough "someones" object. Eventually, they have things running so top heavy that collapse is almost inevitable, at which time they bail, with a nice payout, to find another high-paying company to run into the ground.
My experience with this: I worked for MCI, when things were going well, up until just before things started going very badly. Actually, I think we got axed just in time to avoid getting really screwed. At least we got severance.
Short time at Wal-Mart: That companys philosophy completly changed (before I worked there) from not only being cheaper but also having real workers, to "we'll hire anybody for low money and crappy conditions/compensation, and if you care about doing the job right, and want a living wage, we'll let you go and get 2 cheaper apes to half-a** the job".
Hope Depot: (Where I'm at right now.) Used to be a great company, well paid/compensated employees, who actually knew what they were talking about inre home improvement. Now we cant maintain full staffing on the floor, they hire 7-8 dollar an hour kids who know nothing, and are supposed to be able to tell you how to do things around the house that could get somebody killed if you do it wrong. Nardelli has been accused of some of the shadiest buisness practices out there.
Ford seems to be falling into the same pattern, I just read the other day that they backed out at the last minute on the (IIRC) "Pony Ride" which would have allowed a small number of the die hard a tour, some other amenities, and a discount on an '05. A thread I was reading on another board summed it up nicely. "Why should they alienate the dealers and/or give a special break to people they already had sewn up as customers."
Woah, sorry, didn't mean to get a rant going.
I'll go lurk now

J

[xxxBlakexxx]

While most of us HERE modify our Mustangs, probably 90% of the people out there do not. FORD makes cars for the masses...NOT the individual. Despite this fact, there are millions of $ to be made in the after-market. Think about it, if 20,000 Mustang owners each spent $500 that's a lot of money...and that would be just for one model year. I am surprised that I don't see the after-market industry fighting this. Don't you think that it is funny too that we have never seen an article in MM&FF or other mags about this topic? At least I have not.

Here is what we have learned:

1 - If you modify your car, you may run the risk of loosing your warrenty PERMANTLY.

2 - If you make good friends with your local Ford dealer, he will work with you for warrenty work...within limits. These limits are set by Ford not the local dealer.

3 - Ford can rationalize almost any mod as causing any type of problem and thus voiding your warrenty.

4 - When dealing with your local dealer, understand that you are treading on thin water when it comes to warrenty work.

I called my after-market warrenty company today and asked them a few what-if scenarios. Basically, they won't cover jack on my car anymore. The minute I put in a chip, I am done. Exhaust...done. Gears...forget about it....DONE. Warrenty is void. My options are to either sweet-talk my local service guy (I can take my care ANYWHERE for warrenty work) so he doesn't tell the company. I have a friend that owns a shop, so I am hoping I can pull this off. Or, I can just cash the thing in for about $850 and use the money for more mods. Hey that would pay for a sweet nitrous system. Maybe I'll just wait until something breaks and if they won't fix it, then I cash in the policy. It's a prorated thing so I can do it whenever I want.

[Lizard King]

Originally posted by Mr 5 0
Welcome to the reality of claiming warranty repairs, which manufacturers hate and dealers are not thrilled about, either. I'm not the least bit surprised that once you hit a certain amount of warranty repair costs (to Ford) your car was 'flagged' and they did some loophole-searching to find a way to cut you off. It could have been anything but a modification is a handy excuse, even, as you note, it isn't that much money involved. The loss of you as a customer is clearly of no concern to them and they know you won't go to court for $400. so they consider it a 'win'. No more free repairs for your Ford. It's been modified you see. You lose. Bye now.

I accept the fact that Ford is a business, albeit a huge one, and they are always looking at the bottom line. Fine. What I see is a clear distinction between the short and long term benefits and that Ford is ignoring that. They stop any more free repairs on your car is the short-term win. You never buy another Ford and tell as many people as you can, which, when done via the internet, means thousands - and Ford loses many potential sales down the road is the long-term loss, but Ford doesn't care. Fine.

I'm not sure if GM, Honda or Toyota care either but I'll probably not buy another new Ford. Not simply because of this one example of corporate arrogance and short-sightedness but because of their 'quality issues' and other negative perceptions I've been getting about Ford. This example of stupidity and a 'screw the customer' corporate attitude is simply another reason to look harder at the many other manufacturers out there making quality cars - cars that don't need a lot of warranty work.

You sire are the persons that understands me and this situation the most. There is a conspiracy about warranty I realize now more than ever. When your vehicle is flagged, you hit the loop holes and it becomes harder and sometimes impossible to get work done.

Fluff them and their new cars with warranty. I've had it.

Let it be known Ford's warranty system is not what it seems.

Thanks for understanding.

[GodStang]

I am sorry to hear about you problems man. Ford has never said anything about my car they just do the work. About to get a 2nd new tranny and also get a whole new paint job. They said they would be happy to do it. Also it is against the law to deny you warrnty unless your mod is what cause the problem. It seems they are bs-ing you knowing that you will just say ok and go home and they will not have to do the work. You bring the laws into them and show them and they will do it. MY buddy had gears in his cobra and they replaced his axles under warranty. I also know people that have Superchargers put on and have still had warranty work done. Again I am sorry.

[Fox Body]

It really pisses me off to hear the indifference displayed by large companies and more so when it is Ford. But, you know what, seems like I'm starting to get used to it, which is shameful. And it seems like the attitude is the same as what Mr 5 0 summarized.

Personally, I've never bought a new vehicle in my lifetime and at this point, I still don't ever plan to (the crap already listed by Lizard King and others, being one reason). Ford knows that its biggest overall sales aren't coming from the Mustang, especially the performance ones. And a few diehards that like to mod their vehicles but complain about warrAnty issues that they know they can't win (or are not even worth the time or money pursuing), at this point in time, is not a big enough deal to worry about.

I'm not putting anyone down or trying to seem callous about the issue, but all the new car crap is not appealing to me (once again for reasons mentioned above and MANY other reasons). Yeah, it's cool to dream every once in a while, but I don't trust new car dealers/dealerships and would rather go out on my own, check out a used car from a private owner. Yeah, I'm sure one day my attitude may change about the whole dealership issue, but hey, you know, right now, if I get a performance car, I want it to be the way I WANT IT TO BE. If my purpose is to get an economy car, then cool, I don't even have to THINK about voiding a warranty cause I don't need to screw with it. But if I get a Mustang and want to mod it, screw the warranty. If I decide to get a fast car and I know it's not gonna be fast enough when I purchase it, I can either buy a faster car that will need no mods and not void the warranty or mod the car I got and void the warranty or not do anything to the car and not void the warranty. It's the burden I bear for buying a new car and relying on a bunch of crooks (yeah, a little harsh, maybe too harsh, but I'm venting right now.....) and the warranty as big daddy to solve all my problems.

I know it sounds like I'm dogging those who buy new cars, but honestly I'm not. Just giving my reasons for not going the new car route nowadays. I buy a used car, pay for it, and it's mine! No financing, no car payments, no dealer lies, no warranty, no this crap nor that crap, no paying thousands of $$$ extra beyond what the sticker price actually says . It's mine. If it breaks, I fix it or take it to a place of decent rep and get it fixed there. I mod it the way I want to and screw everybody else! But hey, if I were rich, i guess it all wouldn't matter at all.......

The icing on the proverbial feces cake that is posted in this thread helps to confirm my prior suspicions about the wonderful world of new car purchasing. THANKS FORD!

[KnightRider]

One thing that frustrates me most is this...

If they don't want us modding our cars then why do they sell parts to do so... i.e FRPP.

It's the same thing as record and movie companys attacking the consumers for piracy. Why don't they attack software companys for making DVD burners.

Just my .02

[Lizard King]

You didn't get it then.

The message is not 'they' don't want you to modify the vehicle.

The message is MANUFACTURER's warranty is not what it seems to be. When you get flagged, they make you jump through hoops to get what you need done, even if your car is under warranty.

They will play out their bottomline VS. keeping a client happy, without a second thought.

[mustardjohn]

I have found through experience that one thing they won't do is hang up on you on the phone as long as you are civil. Of course it does cost you time. I have obtained warranty repairs after the warranty was over by several 1000 miles just through persistence and long pauses on the telephone at the end of which I would say I am still not happy who can I talk to that can help me. After several levels of supervisors I have usually found some one willing and able to "plea bargin". For example Ford pays for the parts I pay the labor.

You are right the warranty is not what it seems and must be "worked" to get justice. I think "they" do care but many people you talk to are not authorized to deal. They are given a set position and limited flexibility.

Many customer service departments are run this way. Ours for example does not allow the person you get on the first call level to quote anything but list price. We do, however, sell off list but you have to get past the first level. Typically this means you have something of value like volume purchase or history of past sales, etc.

In a perfect world this would not be necessary.

[XR1stang]

unfortunately this is not a new issue. A couple of years back this same thing happened to a member over on the Corral. His name was Trumps (Jason Trumpio, even though he's not on there any more) and he had a 99 Cobra. The only thing he had changed was the gearing in his car (who hasn't done this? ) Anyway he broke the tranny and bad, and the block broke because of it. They voided his entire warranty because he had changed the gears... less than a week before the car went south. They even sent someone from SVT to come look at his car, and he said since there was rubber in the wheelwell that he was SOL...

I think he looked in to sueing them but found it wasn't worth his time. Dunno what happened after that though because he wound up leaving the Corral. I'm sure there are people on there that remember the whole thing and the outcome of it though.


Also, isn't it every manufacturer out there that will void your warranty for doing any modifications, not just Ford?

[xxxBlakexxx]

I have come across a ton of guys via the internet with broken rear ends. The deadly combination seems to be 4.10's and DR's. The stock rears just can not handle the abuse. Sure, there are some guys with that combo with MANY hard starts without any broken axles, but there are many with problems with only a few runs.

The moral of the story is: Modify your rears with gears and DR's OR watch your launches.

[420nitro]

I have read almost all replies so please pordon me if I am off base or in left field. (Just got back from vacation). The warrenty issue has always been an issue with Ford on modified cars. I also was a Tech for a local ford dealer at one time. The thing is this....it's who you know! Especially your attude that sets the tone when you bring your car in!!!! All it takes is for someone to piss off the service director or manager and he/she will put in a commit in your service file(Flagged). At the begining of my time at the dealer there were 2 hard core race guys that actuallly brought in work off the streets!$$$ The 2nd. shift service dept. made money...almost more then the day shift. It also wasn't a big deal to repair head gaskets on cars with the Nitrous bottle in the trunk still attached!!! I know...I repaired one of them. The night manager got into a disagreement with the directer and soon we had a new night manager. He had a major hard on for voiding factory warranties!! It was like these guys reminded him of the bullies that stole his lunch money, back in grammer school. That caused a lot of money to be lost due "custmer service" and shortley afterwards the second shift was closed down.
Now in todays day is it possiable that Ford is trying to save some money from every angle because of the economy...maybe... just beware anytime you put parts on your car, it you can void your shyte.
Everytime you go back to the dealership for repairs, clean your car and return it to as stock condition as you possiably can. Also be as nice to the service wrighter...believe it or not it helps a lot!
my 2cents

[84LX89GT]

I work on cars under ford warranties, and aftermarket warranties and both will find any way to duck out of paying. Aftermarket warranties can sometimes be absolutely useless. I'm currently replacing a cylinder head on a 4.0L explorer (OHV) that was cracked between the valves on the #3 cylinder (very common problem). Their aftermarket warranty denied the claim because it was not an "internally lubricated component". So basically that 2-3,000 dollar warranty was absolutely a waste of money. I wouldn't ever consider modifying a new car unless i was willing to pay for repairs out of pocket because of the risk involved, this goes with any manufacturer out there.

[Unit 5302]

My 2002 GT was a pile, and the dealer was looking for any reason whatsoever to void the warranty when I brought it in last year for syncro replacement on the junky TR3650.

After asking me if there had been any modification at all, including exhaust, computer chips that are current or had ever been installed or any other major/minor modification, he assured me if there was, they would find it, and void my warranty.

I had the following problems with my pos.

6 Disc Head Unit power failures, intermittent.
Drivers power window failure, intermittent.
No start/power to starter intermittent (required jerking shifter back and forth in neutral)
3rd gear syncro failure.
Rough idle.
Noisy transmission.
Rear brake caliper drag.
Chugging/smoking on start up, intermittent.

Fantastic car. Had a whole 18k on it, and all those problems.

Though I knew their threats about the warranty were not necessarily legal, as LizardKing pointed out, it's very difficult to spend the kind of time and money to fight for what they owe you.

I'm just glad that I didn't modify anything. Of course, with the insane insurance rate and $400+/mo payment, who has the money to?

Bottom line, the 02 wasn't as quick as my 87, wasn't as fun to drive, had a junky driveline, was less reliable than my 161k theft recovery 87GT, had bad warranty service, and cost a fortune. Another new Ford? Unlikely.

[T_BIRDLX]

It doesn't matter how many times you take your car in or how nice you are.I took my 99 Mustang GT in for a knocking sound and they said that Easycare denied the claim. We asked them why and they said they had no idea Because they did not talk to them about the engine. All they do is write up a parts list and let the inspector look at it they dont even talk to him. Atleast thats what they say. My car was bought in June and is completely stock. According to them they can't even tell what caused the problem the only explanation they have is what Easycare said. Wait a minute they don't talk to Easycare how is it they know what they told me. I don't know about the regular warranty but I will never reccomend to anyone to buy the extended warranty.