2001 Cobra Over Rated AGAIN!!!?!?!!! Wassup Ford?

[KillaZ350]

WARNING! BEFORE YOU READ, REMEMBER NOT TO SHOOT THE MESSANGER!!(Me) I only carry the message .... And i got this from GMHTP..


Bangin' Gears
Unsolved Mysteries
By Johnny Hunkins


Some facts just defy reasonable explanation. Why do we park in the driveway and drive on the parkway? In a drag race, how can a 305-horsepower Camaro beat a 320-hp Mustang Cobra by a Kentucky mile? Why does the Mustang consistently outsell the Camaro and Firebird combined? The last two really hit home a few days ago when I had the opportunity to spend the weekend driving a 2001 Mustang Cobra.

Yep. That Cobra. The one that's supposed to save Ford's reputation from the fiasco it suffered from the underpowered, grossly overrated 1999 Cobra. You'll recall that Ford had its hands full with lawsuits from irate customers who were promised a full sack of oats--most of which had already been munched. The post mortem revealed that supplier deviation from the specified exhaust and induction was the culprit.

Bottom line, no LS1-powered Firebird or Camaro owner need fear the new '01 Cobra. This probably doesn't come as a surprise to you, but just how far off is our Blue Oval nemesis? Quite a bit, once its $29,235 price is factored in. You'll recall we went 12.8 at 108 with a base 1999 Camaro Z28--that was with the old LS1 with only 305 hp. (Current models are uprated to 310 hp thanks to a freer breathing LS6 manifold.) This new 2001 Cobra turned a 13.3 at 104 mph and its mill is rated at a lofty 320 hp.

Since when is a 13.3 ET considered bad? Ever since Ford started charging $3,000 more than the price of a nicely optioned Z28--which is a half second quicker! We'll do the Ford guys a favor and not even mention the standard GT here.

Central to the quarter-mile disparity is the lack of engine torque, or more specifically, cubic inches. The fundamentals of physics dictate that to make more power you need more air and fuel. Ford accomplishes this by using fewer cubes, more valves and a higher rpm. GM goes the other route by using more cubes, fewer valves and less rpm. Not only does GM's LS1 produce more total power "under the curve," but LS1 is cheaper to produce and more reliable to boot. But getting back to torque, and low-rpm torque in particular: When cost is an issue, cubic inches are the most fundamental requirement for moving a car from a dead stop. This is a classic example of how the total area under the power curve is more important than how high the power "peak" is.

Okay, so the Cobra isn't great shakes on the drag strip, but it's a terror on the road course and autocross, right? Not so fast, blue oval breath. After spending lots of time in this 2001 Cobra, a 1999 Cobra, a 1998 Cobra and numerous LS1-powered F-bodies (all of them in extreme handling situations), I've come to the conclusion that the Camaro and Firebird are vastly superior. Less inherent body roll, less brake dive, a lower center of gravity, a greater feeling of connectedness with the road, better pedal placement, a wider track, more forward gears, wider tire contact patches, and a gearshift lever in the same zip code as the driver are my reasons. Only on two criteria--steering wheel design and seat support--would I rate the Cobra higher. (I would also count color availability--zinc yellow now being a Cobra option--but it's not performance related.) But aren't the Cobra's IRS and Brembo brakes better? Ironically, they're wasted on a suspension as cushy as the Cobra's.

People argue that the Mustang is more comfortable--or more to the point--that the Camaro/Firebird is uncomfortable (the raked windshield and the catalytic converter hump being the biggest F-body complaints). But the Mustang has some real annoying traits, like every time you move your calf it brushes the electric seat adjuster and pushes the seat forward. Not exactly what you want when you're cruising the highway at 85 mph. Or how about the fact that there's no room for your knees? And if you road race, you quickly find that it's physically impossible to heel-and-toe downshift. Spongy pedals, a long shifter throw with pillowy detents, and a trans that won't go into 1st gear without crunching the cogs are also demerits for the Cobra. And what's up with the wheel hop in the burn box?

Durability is also a big concern with Cobras. When sister magazine Muscle Mustangs & Fast Fords tested the 2001, it only made it two full passes before second gear grenaded. And that wasn't the first time it happened either. Test driver Evan Smith breaks Ford press fleet cars with such alarming regularity, you'd think their drivetrains were made of Waterford crystal. However, we've yet to suffer our first breakage with Mr. Smith behind the wheel of a GM press car. Either he's hangin' back, or they're just tougher to break.

Lest you think I'm down on Ford, let me remove that notion. The most poisonous thing for our hobby is a gross mismatch in performance. Parity is one of the most powerful stimulants for competition, and I'm a big proponent of it. Besides, beating up on helpless women and children isn't fun, it's pathetic. I'd much rather Ford's Mustang have a bigger head of steam, at least that would justify the sales difference.

Obviously, a lack of advertising on GM's part is part of the unsolved sales mystery, but I'll also wager that a big reason Mustang outsells the F-body is because Mustang buyers just don't test drive them. If they did, the outcome might be different. Having spent the previous week driving an SS Camaro at the Bragg-Smith Advanced Driving School in Pahrump, Nevada, I can say the switch to driving a Cobra was a shock and a let down. If you're planning on purchasing either an F-body or a 4.6 Mustang, I recommend driving both of them before you decide, even if you're dead set on a Z28. It will make you feel that much better about your decision!



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Arctic White 1998 Camaro Z28
See my Can of Whoop Azz here
Flowmaster 3in American Thunder Catback - MTI Air Lid/K&N filter,!MAF, FRA

[Stang Runner]

That 12.8 at 108 with a base 1999 Camaro Z28 Is better than what Car and driver got 1998 The HP is 320 Not 305hp 13.5 at 107mph
Current models are uprated to 310 hp thanks to a freer breathing LS6 manifold.) Huuu How about 325HP

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1988 LX 5.0 3060lbs (full Tank) 14.90@100.2 On a Gtech
Drivetrain: 2.73 Stock Gears (New Gears Are in my house3.55), World Class T-5, Lakewood Bellhousing, Summit Adjustable Cluch Quadrant & Cable, Alumminum Driveshaft, Flaming River Manual Steering Rack
Suspension: MAC Control Arms,Maximum Motorsports Front Grip Package, H&R Sport Spings, Bilstein Shocks
Engine: Steal Mounts, Ram air, K&N, Under Drive Pulles
Exhaust: 1 5/8 Un-Equal Length Mac Headers, X-pipe W\cats, Edelbrock cat\



[This message has been edited by Stang Runner (edited 06-27-2001).]

[TJR]

How about 350 with their 290+ RWHP.


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1989 lx notch
89,000 miles
bolt-ons,stock heads/cam
60'- 2.07, 8.90@78, 13.93@99

[KillaZ350]

Originally posted by TJR:
How about 350 with their 290+ RWHP.

Huh?

[Stang Runner]

Sorry that was a SS.

[KillaZ350]

LOL Yea, everyones comparing the Z28 to the Cobra, when they should actually be comparing the SS to the cobra... I never really noticed for some reason......

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Arctic White 1998 Camaro Z28 LS1
See my Can Of Whoop Azz Here

Flowmaster 3in A/T Catback - MTI Air Lid/K&N filter, FRA, under drive pulley, SLP, Ypipe, !MAF, Summit Cut-Out

[Mercury]

Lets see, GMHTP would that be GM High Tech (Hey theres an Oxymoron)Crapazine.

Of course there going to dummy down the competition. Of Course there going to give a biased view.

I know this sounds like a conspiracy theorist at work, but you guys do know that The car manufactures have been caught giving magazines cars that are "pepped up" A little, and they are the ones that usually supply the comparison vehicle also. For example.

Chevy brings out new LS-1. MotorTrend wants to compare that and the GT. Chevy sends a Z28 thats got a little "tweaking" in the computer, over the regular production version. They also may even go as far to run a whole diffrent exhaust.

Then they supply the Mustang GT also. The place a restritor in the intake, or exhaust.

These car mags have started taking there test cars to the dyno's. They have also found some car Manufactures little cheats also.

A stock Z28 LS-1 hitting 12.8 in the quarter. What ever brand crack that guy is smoking, he better change it, it really messing him up.

[Cajun]

It really is amazing that GM is the ONLY company to find the 01 Copbra "overrated". Car and Driver test the 01 Cobra, did not believe their test data, picked their own Cobra from Ford and backed up the data.
I get several calls weekly to try to increase the horsepower on GM's new Duramax diesel. Seems as though their 300 boasted horsepower must be shetland ponies instead of full grown horses. Of course, if you read the Wall Street Journal and can believe their articles, GM is falling behind in their overall sales as compared to Ford. Ford is expected to be #1 in overall sales by the end of 2004. WSJ explained that GM was not in touch with the consumers needs. I have to admit, they have balls the size of Texas to slam the Cobra, considering some of the real winners that they have unleashed on the public.
Later
DT

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2001 Laser Red Cobra
Superchipped
Soon to be 3:73 gears
http://www.zing.com/album/?id=4292685055

[302 LX Eric]

"A Z28 beats a Cobra by a Kentucky Mile" ??? huh? Ok, there Johnny, take another hit on the bong.

The breaking of transmissions and other drivetrain components is new to me???

A stock Z28 does not run 12.8's @ 108 - let's just leave it at that. (ok, the one sent to them from GM did - the other 99.9% of them don't)

The z28/SS has 61 more cubes. The cobra has 2 more valves per cylinder. blah, blah, blah We could go on and on comparing these two cars. People will purchase what they want. And it is pretty obvious that the Blue Oval camp has been winning this battle for YEARS. Why? Well, I have my own opinions, but over the long-haul, the consumer will gravitate toward the better quality vehicle - which has been proven with the mother of all indicators: SALES!

Look, the Z28/SS is a very powerful car. I do not dispute that one bit. Secondly, Ford's 4.6 modulars are high revving engines that are, in my opinion, under sized. A 5.4L modular or even a 5.0L mod would make for a venemous Cobra.

Something that our traitor didn't mention was the mod game. A Cobra is GROSSLY undergeared from the factory. A set of 4.10's, k&n, free flowing exhaust and drag radials spells 12 second time slips. Now I understand that this goes both ways, but in all actuality are these two cars that far apart in performance?

Not as much as Hunkins thinks so...
E

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1991 5.0 LX Coupe - 38,000 miles

13.17 @ 106.14 mph w/ 2.138 60'

[TJR]

KillaZ350- The F-bodys are actually making closer to 350 horespower judging by their dyno numbers, they are under rated from the factory.

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1989 lx notch
89,000 miles
bolt-ons,stock heads/cam
60'- 2.07, 8.90@78, 13.93@99

[exgmguy]

Yup, The number one thing on a Cobra owners list should be gears.

There are a few members of this board who have simple bolt-ons and are running mid-low 12's in their "never broke the seal" Cobras.

And like mentioned earlier. The GMHTP car that went 12's @ 110. RIGHT!!!!!! Anyone that has been to the track knows this not to be anywhere near the truth Try mid 13's @ 104-105. PERIOD. I don't want to sound too biased, so i'll say the same about a 2001 Cobra running mid 13's @ 104. Remember a MAGAZINE also got that time. I'll believe it when I see it.

Durability? Try adding slicks to that lil' 10 bolt on a 6-speed F-car and see how long it lasts. We all know the IRS in the Cobra sucks at the strip. That is about it.

Bottom line is they are both great cars and have their pluses/minuses. I would love to own either of them.

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1988 Mustang GT
12.0 @ 122
1992 BadAzz Wrangler
1993 Explorer

[Capri306]

That guy sounds as if he has a Chevy/god complex of sorts. I bet he even has a bowtie tatooed on his arse.

He still can't save the F-body. It's still going downhill in sales at the same time Mustang sales are huge...granted Ford is selling more V6's, but at least it's gonna be here for a LOT longer.

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Capri306, Moderator, The Mustang Works Online
1979 Mercury Capri, 5.0L -- C4 -- 2.73
1987 Mustang LX Notch

Honestly how many people buy Mustangs and get them stock? Not too many, that's right. So who cares about stock performance, I want to see some bolt-on performance runs and see who benefits from add-ons the most.

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Bia Bia!!! 89' 5.0 GT Convertible Mustang and a 69' Mustang Mach 1 Fastback. If you want to know the rest, buy the rights.
AOL name: Woodnutz351

[justjoe]

Killa, u said people compare cobra's to z28's more often? Personally i never compare my cobra to z's only the ss. i blow away too many z28's to compare them. all the ss's i've encountered have been even or a little faster than my cobra.

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'95 mustang cobra w/cobra R wheels and a k&n filter. mostly stock now but not for long

[KillaZ350]

Originally posted by justjoe:
Killa, u said people compare cobra's to z28's more often? Personally i never compare my cobra to z's only the ss. i blow away too many z28's to compare them. all the ss's i've encountered have been even or a little faster than my cobra.

Have an S351??? How much faster are the 94/95 Cobras then the GTs with both the 5.0?? Im not calling BS or anything, but i ran pretty good with my friends 1995 Cobra in my old L98, he beat me but not bad. and my LS1 is a hella lot quicker so i dunno(i need to race him).....
Im not here to talk crap about the stang, i REALLY like them, almost bought a 99+ GT, but the LS1s power won me over at the last minute. it just felt alot quicker with a smoother power band up top, i liked its seating position, handling and the LS1 had a firmer grip to the road. plus i couldnt live with out my Ttops .. BUT, if the fbody dosent come back from its vacation after 2002, my next 'new' car whenever the time come will be a GT or Cobra...



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Arctic White 1998 Camaro Z28 LS1
See my Can Of Whoop Azz Here

Flowmaster 3in A/T Catback - MTI Air Lid/K&N filter, FRA, under drive pulley, SLP, Ypipe, !MAF, Summit Cut-Out

[fastang]

KillaZ, Did you post the same thing over at ClubSi? Funny you got the same answers there that you did here, and they are import guys The 12.8 was with a different CPU that controlls RPM shift points, timing and fuel delivery. I still say that the 32v 4.6 and the LS1 are equaly impressive motors.

And you are right about LS1's killing 94-95 5.0 Cobras. They typicaly run low 14's but I dont think justjoe's is stock.

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95GT B303 cam, 1.7 rockers, 65mm TB, milled heads, 355's K&N, BBK Longtubes, Flowmaster cat back, pulleys, msd coil, 9mm wires, Tremec 3550, Pro5.0 shifter,10.5 Motorsport clutch, FMS aluminum driveshaft, weld in subframe connectors

[KillaZ350]

yea, i wanted to see what everyone thought... I actually 1st saw this at LS6.com, i really dont know if it was BS or not unless its comming from a neutral source... I know the 99s were under rated, then their was no cobra in 2000, then i was expecting the 01' cobra to be an LS1 killer until i saw this article... Eitherway, the cars will run so even in a average everyday stop light race the LS1s .4 seconds faster or whatever wouldnt matter anyway...

The guy with the cobra that said he "blows away" Z28s only mentions a k&n filter....... Stock Vs. Stock it would be a CLOSE race, id put my money on the Lt1 depending on what year/options.. Mabey he hasent updated his sig in awhile... But with just a filter i doubt he "blows" them away... An Lt1 Z28 would be a hella match up for him, e would lose some, and win some, and the SS isnt that much faster then a Z at all really... I test drove an SS before i bought my Z and couldnt tell a difference at all...

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Arctic White 1998 Camaro Z28 LS1
See my Can Of Whoop Azz Here

Flowmaster 3in A/T Catback - MTI Air Lid/K&N filter, FRA, under drive pulley, SLP, Ypipe, !MAF, Summit Cut-Out

[This message has been edited by KillaZ350 (edited 06-28-2001).]

[LincoConti87]

Someone please explain to me what the difference between the Z-28 and SS is?...ram air? I heard it was the same basically...my impression is that GT goes with Z-28 as SS goes with Cobra but that ain't right huh? And I love how the Chevy is always underated..yea they have like 70 horsepower more than they say and the cobra is grossly overrated...talk is cheap charlie brown...so we need a reputable source to sort the crap out...someone have a really good friend with a camaro and own a new cobra do a test or somethin cus I don't trust the chevy or ford department heads farther than I can throw my 4000 pound lincoln. I was reading a big long post over on some corvette forum about how the Z06's are having oil consumption problems and voided warranties because their owners drove their cars on an official legal race course or drag strip.
Oh yea and Cobras have transmission made of crystal? How many passes down the strip and street had Lizard King taken his "GT" doing mid-high 13's?Don't see him complaining. It is very interesting to see how the big companies can mess with us. Lets find out the truth

[Mach 1]

Who cares?

Buy a 87' - 93' 5.0 stang for a few grand, modify it with a few grand and waste any new Cobra or Camaro and save thousands of dollars.

To argue over the overpriced and underpowered Cobra and the low quality but higher horsepowered camaro is pointless. Drive what you want and leave it at that. Why come hear trying to justify the camaro? You like it better, and you have your reasons, and you bought one. Good for you. Anybody who went the other way and bought a mustang did it because they like the car better and have thier reasons for it. Accept it and move on.

My opinion: a cobra is a cobra, and i'd love to have one even if it has 10 or 15 horsepower less than "it should".

Also the Ram air Camaros and Firebirds have like 15 horsepower more or something not that it matters.

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'84 Mustang 5.0 LX
My car