Before I marry
 

:) I was just thinking, actually iv been thinking about this for hm.... a year or so anyways, i have seen my cousin rebuild his life 3-4 times from divorce. seeing him loose his hot rods and every thing else every single time. So i have realize how to stop this... how to save my livly hood and my pride... PRENUBSUAL! :D whats mine is mine whats hers is hers..... mmmm good ideai do belive

Re: Before I marry
 

I assume you mean that you and your intended bride will jointly sign a prenuptial agreement that states whatever each individual party brings to the marriage will remain their personal possession for the life of the marriage or until the possession is sold or otherwise disposed of. It usually states other divisions of property and either waives alimony (in the event of a divorce) or states a specific alimony financial agreement ahead of time. Things like that.

A prenuptial agreement is like an insurance policy and it does protect your financial assets, such as a car or a house currently in your name, before you take your wedding vows. I happen to think it is a bit cynical and basically says that you expect the marriage to fail - so you are planning for it. Some woman will simply refuse to start a marriage with that kind of negative expectation...and some want a 'pre-nup' before they will accept the engagement ring. It all depends on the people involved and their expectations and attitudes toward marriage.

Frankly, I think that if anyone is that wary about being financially 'taken' by a future wife, they are probably not truly ready for the long-term committment of marriage. However, if the woman you intend to marry is really O.K. with the idea, it can't hurt to have a prenuptial agreement in place.

Re: Before I marry
 

The owner of the company I work for set up his pre-nup sweet.

She gets nothing from him unless she has his baby, if she has his baby she gets half.

he had his nuts clipped years ago and she doesnt know it. So basicly she has been screwing his brains out for the last 3 years trying to get pregnant. :D

Re: Before I marry
 

I think the pre-nup is an absolute requirement these days. While Mr 5.0 views the pre-nup as proof either you are not ready to make the commitment or a parachute in case you decide to bail out, I view it as protection in case the other person isn't truly ready. I feel most divorces are the fault of both parties, any relationship is only as strong as the weakest link. If your "wife" decides she has found a man that is more attractive or more intoxicating after you're married and decides she'd rather take a chance at finding a new Mr. Right, it's nearly impossible from stopping her.

Maybe I'm just a bit cynical when it comes to marriage as I consider it a joke in America today, but I can cite divorce statistics that say marriages in this country are treated as disposable.

Even if you're committed, the other party may not be, and in fact, the odds are they aren't. Tough to swallow, and depressing as it is, I feel people have a duty to protect themselves and their livelyhood these days.

No offense Dark, but marrying somebody and not telling them that you will never be able to produce a child is horrifying. Hopefully, not sharing that information with his wife will get the pre-nup voided should they decide to part ways. Personally, failure to disclose that kind of information is grounds for divorce on it's own, IMHO.

Re: Before I marry
 

I agree, I would never do anything like that but I thought it was hilarious when he told us about it. The fact that his wife is the stereotypical pretty blonde trophy wife makes it that much funnier.

She is getting close to forty she is probably putting in some overtime at this point :D

Re: Before I marry
 

I didn't have a pre-nup when I got married and heres why.

First of all niether of us had a dime when we got married. So pretty much everything we've aquired has been from both of us. So splitting it down the middle would be no big deal to me.

Im in court EVERY day. I see pre-nups work the same as not having one. I see people getting out of their marriage with the things they brought to the marriage. With everything aquired during the marriage split down the middle. Pre-nup or not.

Now with that being said. Ive seen judges award personal property of either party to the other for payment or money owed. Lets say I owed my ex $3,500 in my share of rent, child support, or maybe even closing cost on the house. If I can't come up with the money Ive seen the judge award property valued of owed jointly debts.

Ofcourse throw in the crooks, I meen lawyers, and anything can happen.

Here about the only reason I would recomend a pre-nup. Say a wife doesn't work but is married for 20 years. She has a earning potential. She can ( and probably will) sue her husband for her lost wages while she sat at home, working. A pre-nup however couldn't stop a good lawyer from getting her a paycheck, but could save you from her getting any more than that.

Re: Before I marry
 

As much as I would like to think I will find the love of my life, this society has really helped to screw things all up. If a pre-nup will help me with my security "should" the marriage fail, so be it.

Look at it this way, most of us don't put drive shaft loops in our cars...."wont happen to my car". But the ones who did and broke that u joint....boy were they happy they did it :)
Ryan

Re: Before I marry
 

i like to think of it as a Mustang Saftey net - hugs his mustangs- daddys here for you

Re: Before I marry
 

I wouldn't sign a prenup, and I wouldn't ask anyone to. My first marriage ended in disaster but that's not a guarantee the next one will. I didn't lose any of my cars, etc. but I did get stuck with the bills for it all which only landed me in bankruptcy court a couple of years later when it all got out of hand. But that's long story.

Re: Before I marry
 

I agree 100%. It's amazes me how many people are worried about their "stuff" when splitting up. You can always work hard to earn money and replace the "stuff" that is taken away. A marriage is a life-long committment to a person you can't see yourself living without. It's a big decision....one you should be absolutely certain of before making the choice to get married. If it were me -that was married- and the marriage didn't work out (for whatever reason), I would be more concerned with WHY it didn't work out rather than "who's getting what stuff". To be that materialistic and shallow after a life-long bond has been shattered is rediculous IMO.

Re: Before I marry
 

I do not see it as being shallow. I guess maybe my vision of society has been skewed by my career. Regardless, until I feel the courts start to even the field a little bit when it comes to belongings, who pays the bills, etc....I think people would be foolish not to atleast consider it.
Ryan

Re: Before I marry
 

If you need security "incase" the marriage fails, aren't you setting it up for failure by doing that? Aren't you doubting your decision?? The thought of it not working and needing security to fall back on is a recipie for faliure before the committment is even made. Again just my opinion...maybe I have an old time way of thinking :confused:

Re: Before I marry
 

With a decision like that, I am not sure I wont atleast have a little doubt in my mind. Sad to admit, but sometimes hard to ignore.
Ryan

Re: Before I marry
 

Yeah, and if you put jackstands under your car when you jack it up, aren't you just setting the car up to fall? Your conclusion is so irresponsible that you obviously haven't given much thought to the whole concept. Some people may view the pre-nup as insurance in case they want to bail out of the marriage. I treat the concept as insurance in case the other person isn't as committed as they would indicate.

50% of marriages end in divorce because people aren't willing to work things out. WTF does that mean anyway? Work things out. That's what the people in that marriage have been doing since the inception of the relationship. The fact that women file for divorce twice as frequently as men sends a giant red flag up to me. If 50% of all marriages end in divorce, 80% of marriages end citing irreconcilable differences, and 67% of all divorces are requested by women, it would seem likely to me that a man faces better than a 1 in 4 chance that a woman will file for divorce for a stupid reason. There should never be an irreconcilable difference. What a stupid concept. Do you not think a difference in personality so great that it would lead to a divorce should have probably been readily apparent BEFORE the couple got married? There has been research that cites a woman divorces for power in many cases.

http://www.angryharry.com/tgWhyWomenDivorce.htm

What are the chances that your floor jack will fail while you're under the car? 1:4? Hell no. Not even 1:1000. You don't have to agree with getting a divorce. All it takes is one person in the relationship wanting to bail for any reason, and that relationship is done. Divorces papers are practically dispensed by gumball machines these days, and it's high time that people took responsibility for the problem.

I'm doing my part by being a loner. No divorces for me cause I'm not married, and at this point, I have no intention of becoming married.

Re: Before I marry
 

My car doesn't express feelings, emotions, or thoughts. Comparing a car on jackstands to a marriage doesn't make any sense. A car is an inanimate object. A human being is not. Apples to oranges.


Irresponsible because I don't care about petty materialistic things?? If I lost everything it wouldn't matter. It would matter WHY I lost everything but not WHAT I lost. In the end, it's just stuff. A marriage is a union where two people begin a life-long journey together. If I ever make that committment, I'm not going to worry about 'covering my ass'.



I would hope a grown adult could judge whether they are ready for marriage or not....but sadly some adults don't know how to commit to someone or something. The divorce rate today is a scary number and like you, I am doing my part and staying single.....for now.

Re: Before I marry
 

Kell ('Unit 5302') made some valid points but let's not forget that 'no-fault' divorce laws only require that the one of the two people in the marriage state that they have 'irreconcilable differences' in order to obtain a divorce. It's simply a catch-all legal term that means: "I want outta here" and, in my opinion, one of many reasons we have such a high divorce rate: it's too easy to say 'forget this', abandon all attempts at finding a way to deal with the natural differences any man and woman will have and then move on in the marriage.

While the car-on-jackstands analogy is a tad weak (but relevant on a Mustang website messageboard) I think using any kind of insurance is a better metaphor. Because we take out auto, home or life insurance does not mean that we all intend to have an auto accident, have our home burn down or die young. However, a marriage is not quite the same as emotions come into play that are not present when insuring inanimate objects, as 'Stang Crazy' noted in his reply to Kell.

I still believe that a pre-nuptial agreement is both a good and bad idea: but which? Well, that depends on the people involved. While it does protect your financial assets from being taken by a greedy and possibly unfaithful spouse in a divorce (at least you hope it does...that is not guaranteed) it also sends the clear message that you are less than totally committed to this journey by virtue of 'hedging your bets' or that you simply do not fully trust the person you are about to dedicate your life to before man and God. Were I not already very happily married and were just starting out, I would not go the pre-nuptial route and I would look askance if my intended bride wanted such an agreement. But that's just me.

As has been noted; if you don't know the person you want to marry well enough to not be surprised if they request a pre-nuptial agreement then you probably are not quite ready for the marriage committment. However, if both parties are in full agreement that they prefer a pre-nuptial agreement before the marriage then this is another story. I can see those two people going that route - bymutual agreement. I know this is often the case with second marriages when both parties are a bit older and have real assets to 'protect'. Two people doing something by mutual agreement, whether it's S&M, buying a house or just signing a pre-nuptial agreement is always logical.

That said: I would prefer to enter a marriage with the intention of growing old with my wife and I would expect to know her character well enough to be assured that if divorce ever happened she would not assume 'barracuda' mannerisms and attempt to 'punish' me by going after my financial assets. That may be seen - by some - as naive but it is not unreasonable, in my view. I would hope that a majority of new marriages can and will begin this June minus the 'insurance' policy of a pre-nuptial agreement.

Re: Before I marry
 

Well said Mr 5.0, as always. It is not that I need the insurance, or would be prone someday to marrying a girl that I did not fully trust or love. But, with that said, I have seen many a men lose everything. When they have lost their emotional companion, then lose their belongings, sometimes they have done some irrational things and temporarily lost their minds.

That said, If I met a girl who was the daughter of a wealthy C.E.O. and she requested the pre-nup, why should I care? I am marrying her for her, not her belongings. She should be cautious of a man looking for a sugar mama and protect herself as such.

Now I am far from wealthy, But I have worked hard for what I have. IF I have an option to help me keep some possessions if I lose that bond with a person, I would be a fool not to consider it.
Ryan

Re: Before I marry
 

I don't visit this site that much, mostly because my wife.. now ex-wife monitored it for my post. Funny I should visit and see this thread. Let me tell you a little story and what I think. Marriage is not about love in this country. I always thought marriage was the ultimate surrender.. ' I love you and always will'. I waited 35 yrs to find that perfect someone, she was perfect.. I mean perfect. As far as looks, I'd sit her next to any woman I ever met and pick her every time. She doesn't realize her beauty for some reason, that's beside the fact. She said the perfect things, did the perfect things.. we meshed. Three weeks into the marriage she was laying in bed and said "When we split up all I want is the Avalanche and alimony". Uhhh what?!?! I'll skip alot but at one point I asked her about some of the things we did together(before marriage) and her response was "I did those things because I knew you liked it and I wanted to make you happy". Hmmm.. well I guess she thought that once she married me she was entitled to half of what I worked the past 16yrs to aquire, to hell with making me happy. She didn't do her homework. Sorry. I got divorced 3 weeks ago. She got nothing. Funny thing about it was that I wanted her to sign a prenup and she didn't want to but later said she would. I showed her my trust by marrying her without one, my bad. It seemed every week she would make a comment like "We should split up now while we still get along". I was completely happy and satisfied, alot of head scratching.. WTF? Apparently she wanted my truck and for me to pay her bills for the rest of her life. In her eyes that was doing me a favor. Anyways, I'm going to keep this short.. Marriage in this country is not about love, its a legal contract. I don't plan to ever get married again. If I ever find love again, she can live with me until the day I die. I will not marry her. If I had nothing and she had nothing, marriage is fine. Besides that, no way! I'm seeing a new girl right now and I actually waited until I was divorced. I have another girl lined up if this one doesn't work. I'll leave my options open until I find a girl that wants me for me, if it ever happens. If not, hey.. its a win-win situation. Screw marriage.

Re: Before I marry
 

I'm truly sorry to learn of your unhappy marriage experience Rick...but it is your experience - and not necessarily true for every marriage. I have been married a long time and we are as much in love today as we were when we first met. My wife and I 'mesh' and always have. She pleases me and I please her and no one is looking for the 'Exit' sign just because we have a disagreement or happen to be grumpy one day. But that's my experience and I don't necessarily think that all marriages are like mine...just as they are not all like your (former) marriage.

All women are not tramps, evil or gold-diggers waiting to take a mans money after a few weeks of marriage. Neither are they perfect Stepford Wives; obedient and docile and just waiting to serve their man. My wife isn't like that, nor is she a witch or a buster in any way. What I'm saying is that I think you over-generalize what marriage is, based mostly on your own unhappy experience.

While marriage may not be right for you, I do not subscribe to the premise that it's just 'a legal contract' and 'not about love'. It is about love in many cases but marriage takes serious committment, hard work and the ability to realize that marriage is a matter of mutual sharing, not a way to have convenient sex and get someone to cook and clean for you or to get ahold of someone elses money and run with it.

Unrealistic expectations going into marriage is a large part of the divorce problem, along with too-easy divorce laws and an attitude of 'I'll try this and see if it works', often secretly thought while pledging your love to another 'until death do you part', which dooms the chances of a successful marriage right from the beginning.

I wish you well, Rick but I do not accept your take on 'what marriage is', however, as you are divorced and I'm happily married, I think my take may be a tad more realistic.

Re: Before I marry
 

I am very please to see men voice their opinions. I do agree that some women make it bad for all. Alot of my friends talk on and on, on what a guy can do for them. I think this is wrong and that you should judged each other by who they are. I am sorry for you men who have had to suffer b/c of this. I was once married and now divorce. I am still very sad of this and feel I will never move on. My x asked me to sign a pre-nup before we married. I told him that I felt like that each of us should marry on trust and love. It made me feel that my x was setting things up so he could bail any time he wanted. I did tell him that I would take it to a lawyer and have clauses put in there for myself and then sign it. I felt if he wanted it, he could pay for it and take care of it. He didn't and that is not my fault. I wish we had, so maybe things would have turned out differently. Maybe we would still be together. In fact, I suggested for us to get a post-nup that you can do in our state to waive what he wanted me to do. No dice. On my wedding day, in fact four hours after we married, he mention his x, it crushed me. I believe in marriage no matter what. On Thanksgiving Day, he almost hit me b/c I tried to wake him up to eat. I also find out secrets he kept from me. It wasn't the secrets, it was the fact he lied to me and kept them. I stayed mad for awhile and you know us women how we can be. I said some things to my husband I should not have b/c when I get mad, I run my mouth, which I will regret for the rest of my life. My husband drank and was not always nice at times. As far as the pre-nup, I do not have a problem with signing away rights to his stuff that he own before me. It is only fair, in fact, in the divorce, I only asked to take my name back and nothing else. I can prove this b/c I have all the papers. I could have done some things. I married for love and if I could not have his love, I wanted nothing. I finally moved away from town to force myself to move on with my life. My x is with someone else and I hope the best for him. He did alot of things to me in the year separation and he deserved stuff done to him, but I love him. I felt he had issues and bad women in his life that made him to do what he did. I could only give him sympathy and mercy. The divorce was very simple, Absolute Divorce. I am planning on going back to school for my third degree and get into this travel program when I am done. I want to go to Alaska for a little while or Hawaii. I guess skys the limit. If one day there is someone meant for me, God will send them to me. Everything in life is a learning experience. I have learned a great deal through my whole experience. Life has ups and downs, and you never know what will happen. Right now, my grandmother is on her death bed. It is sad and she is suffering, but it makes you realize life is to short. Guys, be honest, and understand that all women are not bad. I do understand why yall feel the way you do. It is hard on both sides. The divorce rate in this country is scary. I am hoping that eventually both sexes will take commitment and marriage seriouly. I regret what has happen to me, but I would not change it, as bad as it has been, for nothing. It taught me a great deal and made me a better person. I live with the guilt of things I said to him and that is it. Thanks for listening to my opinion and I usually don't come to this site anymore for personal reasons, but this issues touch me. Good luck to all!

Re: Before I marry
 

I think it's kinda like police officers. One bad officer makes a bad impression on all police officers. Just a very few bad experiences can lead to the formulation of stereotypes. Obviously much more so with marriages that go bad. There is a lot more hurt involve in a relationship than their is with a cop making your day miserable.

Jim (Mr 5 0), I would agree that marriage should be the way you want it to be. I also believe that people are not as "good" as they used to be. The respect that I was taught for other people and their property is blatently missing from our society so is it realistic to expect that younger members or their generations bring such honerable intentions to marriage concept alone?

Stang_Crazy it's noble to give less credence to material wealth in this day and age; however, money has become increasingly important to ensure that people have the freedom to live their lives in happiness. It seems as though just about everything costs money these days, and I've seen a number of people that have suffered greatly at the hands of greedy ex-spouses. We're talking about people literally being homeless because they can't afford the child support/alimony in concert with food and shelter. By homeless I mean living out of trailers or vans, not walking the street with a shopping cart.

I believe your lack of concern regarding financial well-being allows for an increased risk that you or somebody else would be taken advantage of. Just like identity left. It's a booming business because it's so profitable and easy. Many people do not take necessary measures to protect themselves, which makes it more lucrative for people that specialize in that heinous crime to continue their illegal activities. If they were not able to make so much money for such little effort, they would not choose to exploit people in that manner.

By the way, in my jackstands analogy, I'm commenting on your personal safety. Who cares if the car falls? It's not going to do too much damage to the vehicle. Now, as for the human underneath it.... that's a different story.

Re: Before I marry
 

Anyone not worried about material possesions when entering into marriage is a fool. Over 50% of marriages end in divorce.

Re: Before I marry
 

I'm glad someone else said something opposing to what I said. There needs to be two contrasting views shown but.. I've had a year of seperation to think about this subject and I've thought about it alot. I came to the conclusion that love is not a contract, it doesn't want. There is nothing that marriage can add to love that money can't buy... and money isn't love. Marriage is indeed a contract, go talk with a divorce lawyer and you will see what I mean.


I agree with you about the unrealistic expectations and the general acceptance of divorce today playing a major role. Everyone is waiting for the perfect person but no one seems to realize there is no perfect person. The opportunist don't help the matter any.

I never expected I'd ever get divorced but it became painfully obvious it was something I would be unable to avoid after the marriage. That fact that you are happily married(congrats!) and I am recently divorced doesn't make your view any more realistic than mine, in fact I feel its just the opposite. I feel my view of 'marriage today' is more realistic. Being married doesn't make you love each other any more or less.

I wish you the best too, Jim.

Re: Before I marry
 

This is the best thread I've seen in a while! Good opinions and views! :)

Re: Before I marry
 

So I guess my question for every one is if you and your x-spouse still love each other, can things be fix and start over knowing the mistakes that both have made? I guess acting more intelligent this time then getting so caught in the love feeling.

Re: Before I marry
 

Stranger things have happened.

Re: Before I marry
 

Im still mad about the whole thing, and decided to delete this post. I should not say dont marry. Prenups can work, I guess, depending on where you live. I can understand why someone would want one, if they have alot to lose. I can completely understand, after seeing what I had seen.
I would say to anyone, Do what you feel is right. I just saw a whole side of dealing first hand with a divorce that was very nasty, and got caught in the middle of it all.
Although I would be hurt if asked to sign one, I would do it. But, like stated in some other posts. Alot of prenups are not worth the paper they are printed on. And, its a shame that when a divorce turns that nasty and ugly, the permanent scars that are left on the one who was the 'target' to get screwed. They never look at marriage the same again.
TNT :)

Re: Before I marry
 

I am truly sorry for you. It sounds like the guy was under a lot of stress and probably acting some ways that he normally would not have under normal circumstances. I am sorry that you had to be sorta, "the punching bag". I am sure after things settle down, he will look back with regret. I think everyone after a certain time can look back and see the mistakes they made. That is growth and good for you so you don't make the same mistakes twice. You said in the end you realized where you or who you belong with and that is the most important thing. I truly believe everything happens for a reason. You might not see it at first, but you will eventually see it. So please, for your sake let the bitterness go so you don't make the person you are with pay for the mistakes of the last guy you were with. Good luck and some of these post have been pretty good.

Re: Before I marry
 

Rick, it's obvious that two people don't have to be married to 'be in love' and that marriage does not automatically make your love any more or less real. I never said it did. However, the fact of being married and staying married because you both want to be together is a pretty good indication of a mutual love and respect for each other that the absence of that formal committment (of legal marriage) lacks, in my opinion. Live-in's and other arrangements outside of marriage rarely last more than a few years, as there is no real committment and - as singer/songwriter Paul Simon once wrote (and sang): There are (at least) '50 Ways To Leave Your Lover'.

While today's newlyweds may be less inclined to enter into marriage as a lifelong, 'Till death do us part' committment and pre-nups are common, the fact remains (and is often unnoticed) that even with a near-50% chance of a married couple divorcing, millions of married couples DO remain married for life - to one partner, even in a society that has obviously de-valued marriage as the accepted social norm. I think it would be a safe assumption to conclude that the majority of those married 'lifers' are happy in their marriages, understanding that the concept of 'happy' is always relative.

While we may be on opposite sides in terms of our marriage experiences, I think that simply helps any readers of this thread see a diverse set of views. That we each bring a certain level of bias to the discussion is no crime, as those individual biases are transparent and held without rancor. I happen to see marriage in a more positive light because I am happily married and know others who are equally successful in their marriages. You have had a negative experience with marriage and see it with a more jundiced eye, as it were. I think we both have points to be made and I am more than willing to let readers decide on where the truth lies, although, when discussing something as personal as marriage, it is rather difficult to be truly objective, as we both have proved here.

Re: Before I marry
 

Actually, the number of people that stayed married to each other is greater than the 50% because people who get one divorce are statistically more likely to divorce again. Thus the divorce rate may be 50%, but the number of people getting divorces is significantly lower.

I hope that actually brightens your day a little, as it does lend support the marriage concept, and the fact that more people stay together than what might initially be theorized based on the simplest divorce statistics.

Re: Before I marry
 

No prenup here. Got married right out of college with 2 cars, a truck and a dime in my pocket. I could see a prenup if you have a lot of money before the marriage and the significant other had nothing.