Unit - That is cool. I just misunderstood your post and didn't want anyone thinking I thought a 600 could be manhandled :).

I don't mind the notchy gearbox too much, but after riding some other bikes, I really like the smoothness of some of them.

Most peeps will tell you to start on a 600cc in-line 4 cyl. However, I know a few guys who had a lot of dirt experience and they we fine on 750's or even liter bikes.

I would ask what you wanted to do with it. I have a liter bike and a 600cc. I enjoy both equally as much. It's nice to have the brute power of a big engine, but the seemingly endless redline on the 600 is fun in the twisties.

My first street bike was an 84 interceptor 500, I liked it alot but not big enough for 2 people. I was going to get a YZF600 to get start back riding again but ran across the VFR800 and that's what I got. I don't think you would outgrow that as quick as a 600, it doesn't weigh much more either. Just something to think about..

Kawasaki all the way baby. And get at least a 900 unless you are never going to haul anybody on the back and don't mind being blown around.

How about a turbo-busa.... Those make great beginner bikes. :rolleyes:

And yea make sure you get a real heavy bike because they handle much better, are easier to learn on and that way you will not get "blown around". :rolleyes:
~since when did a bike being heavy become a desirable feature?

Oh yea, make sure to do a lot of 2-up wheelies and endos, it speeds up the learning process, and if a deadly accident occurs you get a 2 for 1 deal. :rolleyes:

I hate to be rude, but quit giving bad advice before you kill someone.

Where is that post? No one could possible be THAT dumb to suggest a 900 to a beginner, especially without personally knowing him (i.e. him being a possible EXCELLENT dirt rider, etc) :rolleyes: ;)

No DOH :)
ROFLMAO

Kiku2sleeppeepoo make up your mind you say heavy bikes aren't an advantage and then you say it is bad to be doing wheelies. Well a heavier bike doesn't wheelie as easy. And if a learner gets someone on the back of a light bike and takes off, he might just wheelie clean over ,because he didn't realize the difference having someone on the back would make. I been riding off and on since 1976, street and dragstrip only, no dirt. I haven't seen any advantage to smaller bikes unless you aren't tall enough to get on a bigger one. It doesn't matter if it is a 600 or 1200 if the guy doesn't respect it, and doesn't have the intelligence to ride it, it will probably end badly. A bigger more stable bike seems more comfortable on the freeway to me. A smaller bike that may seem easy to corner may lure the inexperienced into thinking they can carve corners and next thing you know, road rash! I want all the weight I can have when I run over a cat or whatever in the road(adds stability). I'll state my opinion and he can listen to all the opinions then make up his own mind, if he gets killed it isn't my fault or yours, it is his. First motorcycle I rode was in 1975 I just took it for a ride, didn't own it, it was a 500 Kawasaki 3cyl. 2-stroke and it was more of a handful than most bikes today. Crappy brakes, abrupt acceleration, etc. I would have been noworse off if it had been a 900 kawi. ZX9 is one of the best new bikes for the money.

I don't have a problem with people doing wheelies although I don't recommend beginners doing stunts. I specified 2-up stunting because of the comment "get at least a 900 unless you are never going to haul anybody on the back" A 600 sportbike capable of doing 0-60 in 2.8 sec and mid 10s in the 1/4 mile through the stock can, has plenty of power to haul a passenger. My wife rides with me and I have no problems with lack of power, the bike being stable or the front coming up. If you are riding hard enough to bring the front up with a passenger you don't need to have a license. As far as the weight issue, a heavier 900cc bike will still wheelie a lot easier than a 600. I know people on 900s that will bring the front tire up at 90mph, try doing that on a 600… No Dice. "Well a heavier bike doesn't wheelie as easy" What? Only if they have the same amount of HP, but most have about a 15-25lb weight difference with about 30-40 HP increase not to mention gobs more low end torque to get you in trouble. Anyway I am not sure about the 900 Kawi, or what year bikes you are thinking about but there is not that much of a weight difference between the 600s and the big bore bikes anymore. The dry weight of a gixxer 600 is 359lbs the gixxer 1000 374lbs. That is not enough weight to even feel a difference. Besides anyone can drive in a straight line on the highway, but most people will need something to weave through traffic and to be able to control the bike at low speeds, riding once you get up to speed it is easy as long as you understand the counter steering theory. Like I said, I am not trying to be rude but you don't seem to grasp the physics of riding a modern sportbike.

Hold on you want a fast bike right!! Why do you love your mustang tourqe right? go for the Vmax you will not be sorry it is the Hemi of street Bikes!!!:D

Maybe I am thinking of a different bike but is that even a sportbike? The Vmax I am thinking of is a powerful bike (I think about 140hp) but 578lbs, damn. It will still get spanked by a stock 600 in the 1/4 mile and by about 15-20mph extra top end. Defiantly a nice bike though, I would love to have one for cruising. I just wouldn't be able to keep up with the people I ride with on that heavy thing. If torque is what you are looking for I would go with a TL1000 or a RC51 (not beginner bikes). IMO

"Beginner bike" is all relative. I know some guys that would kill themselves on an R6 just as easily as a GSXR1000. Lethal at any cc size depending on their reserve and temper.

Personally, my very first bike was 1 1998 VTR1000 Superhawk. I rode that badboy for over a year with 4,300 miles and never once felt like I was over my head. However, that does not mean I would "recommend it" to anyone as a first bike.

You are correct on the low-end power and torque. Nothing compares to a liter for that kind of power. However, if someone is used to driving a car and has no experence on a sportbike, even a Kawi 250 would feel amazingly quick to them. I know a friend who's owned nothing but late 60's Chevelles, GTO's, and Mustangs and he's beyond impressed with his GSXR600

True, you can kill your self on a scooter. Going with a big bore bike is just asking for trouble. Is it possible, yes. Is it recommended, oh hell no. I have seen quite a few people that have done this. About 2 out of 3 wreak the bikes pretty bad. You also look pretty stupid on a group rides when your 1k is getting spanked by a bike with almost half the CCs. Besides any squid can do supermans going down the highway ;) About the car/bike thing, your right there is no comparing the two. It is a whole different ball game, hell it isn't even the same sport. I hate when people talk smack about how fast their bikes are when they have 1 ½in chicken strips. “yea! I can ride in a straight line and shift gears, WoHooo” http://www.gixxer.com/forums/ubb/graemlins/thumbup.gif

Funny how the big-ticket bikes are the worse riders of all. I was walking into a Barnes and Noble in MD two weeks ago and there were an assortment of bikes out front. A few Ducatis, an MV Agusta, a 929, and an R1. I walked behind them, inspected the bikes and said, "Who owns the 929?" A little asain guy walked up to me. I shook his hand and said, "Thank you for ACTUALLY knowing how to ride your bike."

He was the only one of the group who knew how to lean the bike over (as displayed by his well rounded off rear tire with little to no "new rubber" on the edges).

That is why I said go with at least a 900, torque. You can have a rider on a smaller displacement bike but you will need to downshift in order to accelerate the same. Also a 900 as you pointed out can be almost as light as a 600 depending on the models. For a new bike the ZX9 seems to be a good bike for the price and a little more comfy than a 600. Depends on the riding you want to do. I don't need to weave through traffic. If I was there with the guy, I would help him find a good used bike, and yes V-max would be a candidate. Some guys just know how to wheelie and I don't. My uncle could ride thru the gears on an old CB750 honda, ride standing on the seat of an RD305, and also go thru the gears with me on the back and scare the crap out of me, all while wheelieing. I still believe a heavier bike will be less likely to pop over, when the extra weight of a rider is placed on the back.

As explained before, the liter bikes are not much heavier than the 600s. Even the mid 90's liters have 10-30rwhp over the new 600's. The new liters have between 20-50rwhp over the new 600's. Futhermore, the liter bikes are specifically designed to be crazy machines. They do not have a long wheelbase so they are wheelie monsters. Those things will do a roll on wheelie on any freeway in the US riding at the speed limit. Do you even know what kind of power they have?? The average liter bike will trap about 135-140mph, put down 150hp at the crank easy. 130rwhp is the norm. All you have to do is roll on the throttle hard and that front end is getting light.

If you want a heavy bike, get a Harley Fat Boy, lol. You're just not gonna find a heavy sportbike anymore.

I'm going to post a few numbers here, I researched the bikes some with the buyers guide before I made my decision to get the VFR..
ZX9-404#
ZX12R-463
ZX6R-377
ZX6-430
Busa-480
VFR-490
YZF6R-365
YZF600R-416
VMAX-580

Ok, there are a few there. I had an interceptor500 for 6 monthes then got a VMAX and all I can say is... this bike had some torque. It was the fastest bike you could get when it first came out(1984), it replaced the eliminator as the king of speed of that time. Then came the FJ1100 then the zx10 then FZR1000 then the zx11(I sold bikes for a short while in 89). I can tell you that the VMAX has some ungodly torque, this thing will pull in the mid range like mad! Forget your 1320#s, lets talk real street.. this thing is BAD! Its not the most comfortable bike I've ever sat on but this thing has ALOT of power. I could easily pull up the front tire, unlike the VFR where I would have to rev the crap out of it. I rode with a co-worker(he was on an FJ1100), we rode to a union meeting then around town(he had folks there) and back home.. he wanted to go hit the bars and I wanted to go home and rest my @ss(It hurt). The Vmax has a driveshaft, which I like(low maintence). I feel like I'm babbling at this point...

I rode with a bunch of cruisers a few weekends ago(mostly Harleys and customs) and they started cruising 90-100 once we hit the hwy and I had a hard time keeping up with them... I tried to keep them within site(the wind was blowing that bad, I was riding at a 45 degree angle going straight). At one point I was almost blown off the road, literally. We got to where we were going and they all said it must be the fairing on my bike because they had no big problems. Have any of you guys experienced anything like this?

Anyhow, I'm disappointed in the VFR's power. I think it would be a great first bike but I guess I like to 'feel' the power when I roll on it. I can see either a ZZ-R1200 or FJ1300 in my future.

It is my understanding that the YZF600R will pull on the R6 off the line and most likely win in the 1/8.. The R6 has all its power up top. Is this true??

I don't know who told you this, but they done lied to you boy.... The 600R weighs a good 120 lbs more and has about 17 lbs less torque and about 30-40 less hp. The power curve when compared to the R6 is under the entire time. At no point does it outpower the R6. Even if it did, you still carry another 120 lbs.

I actually read it somewhere. I'll see if I can find the web page or rag that said that. This mag must be wrong because it only shows a 51 dry weight difference. Where do you get your info??

BTW... WELCOME to the board!!