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CHEVY VS. FORD THE SAGA CONTINUES
why do so many of you ford guys think the Z28 is such a slug when the fact is they are faster than the gt's stock. I am not saying there are no fast stangs but for the most part the Z is faster. as for some of you guys who thing they are junk and the break and fall apart, have you driven one? probably not. because mine runs and looks great and its 6 years old and bone stock and have still never lost to any mustangs.
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Haha, no replies http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/wink.gif
I love my car with 35K on it, no problems at all yet. Most cars out there are stock and yes the LS1's still edge the Gt's and Cobra's. I respect the 4.6's performance for what it is and the high mod capability, but again, most cars on the road are stock. I have been whopped repeatedly by this guy is an 80's stang with big gauges sticking out everywhere and an exhaust that makes my Borla tremble. but I have also repeatedly beat my friends newer Cobra with gears and exhaust pretty easily. All I have is intake, exhaust, stall convertor, and that hypertech programmer. It's addictive and fun and I intend to keep it that way |
Put it together cc boy http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/smile.gif
I put twenty thousand kilometres on my mothers x's '99 ragtop Corvette the summer before last - i know LS1 power. Smooth, unlimited power. It's always on tap http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/smile.gif Do i think F-Body's blow? Hell no! I think they rock! What stinks is the $40,000 price tags that go with 'em http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/frown.gif There's a new WS6 for sale near my place - asking price is around $50K http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/mad.gif Oh but wait, your 'Maro is 6 years old. We're talking Iroc, right? I've lined them up before, and if you think you can run circles around my slow SN-95 with a stock Iroc, bring a shovel, you'll need it when i bury that thing http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/smile.gif |
Nope no IROC here LT1 95 Z28, I did have a third gen and i admit it was way slower than my LT1
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Where are you from?
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Hmmm.....I don't remember anyone saying an LT1 was slow. Maybe you should read the Street Racers Corner forum and search for LT1 threads. Lots of stories of beating LT1's and getting beat by LT1's.
Like my car, I won't win anything unless its something pretty slow. The old girl is tired and needs to be implanted with a new engine. ------------------ 1966 Baby blue Coupe, 289, Manual 3-speed, Edelbrock 650, Flowmaster 3-chambers, and minor upgrades. Interior work includes custom paneling, custom dash dress-up(I refuse to cut anything out of the original), Rewiring most of the electronics, Porsche 911 seats installed soon, and Stroker kit when I get to Texas. November of 2001 I will go back to Dallas. |
$40k!! good god man, how much are stangs in CA?? The old man was bored and went and looked at stangs, maros and vettes... 01 5spd stang gt 'vert w/ all options was ~$27k, m6 z28 w/ cloth was same price, and '00 blk/blk/blk m6 C5 'vert was $50k
Just curious |
My buddy John paid $72K and change for his C-5 Vert, new.
Corvettes are rich man's car if you ask me http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/frown.gif Stangs here (GT of course) range from $27K to $35 for a loaded 'vert. |
Yall ought to come to Texas. A Loaded 00' GT runs around $23k. 01's are around $24K. A lot of bang for the buck.
A ------------------ 00 GT |
This is truly a class a forum!!!!!! The guy comes in here talking smack and not one person returns it. I am very impressed with this board!!!!!
LT1's are fast as hell but let me tell you something. It is very rare to see a stock Mustang and very rare to see a modded 4th Gen F-body. Besides talk over the internet is cheap. Its what happens when you are behind the wheel that matters. http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/wink.gif ------------------ SHP RACING http://www.shpracing.com/images/shp_logo.gif http://www.shpracing.com/images/cars.gif www.SHPRACING.com Hang on for the ride of your life! |
NTIMD8
Soooo true, which is why i got the f-body =P |
Now then. The current camaros are faster than the current mustang, but lets look at some stuff (this is gonna get long):
I hate to bring up the displacement argument, as thats the ricers favorate thing to talk about, but here it applies differently. Ricers always talk about hp/L and how there gerbils make so much of it, sometimes as much as a stock mustang, but that power is made in the stratosphere (9000 rpm) and there is no torque to accompany it (case in point, integra type-r, 195hp, 127 ft/lbs). But between the 4.6L mustang, and the 5.7L camaro engine there is not as much discrepensy as there should be given the displacement. Ok, 2001 models now: Mustang makes 260hp@5250 and 300tq@4000 Camaro: 310@5200 340@4000. Those power and torque numbers occur at same (close) rpms, so you can't say that we only get power cause we rev through the roof. Lets do some quick math: the 4.6 makes 56.5hp/L and 65.2tq/L, the 5.7, 54.3 x 59.6. Where is all the power from that extra 1.1 liters (we have all heard ricers say this)? I just don't know. Where is all the torque (never heard em say this)? same place, up the collective GM a$$hole (sorry, cheap). With that big discrepency in displacement, I'd hope that the Z28 would be faster. Lets go back a few years, to when the 'stang had a 5.0L and the camaro had the same 5.7; 1991. In this year, the stang and the maro both ran around 15, depending on driver (sources I checked said 15 for stang and 15.1 for maro, thats just driver), but the camaro had another .7 liters! With that extra .7 liters the camaro only made 20 more horses@400 more rpm and 45 more ft/lbs. By the ratios, GM was mising some horses, even thought they were on the ball as far as tq goes. The camaro had .7 extra liters, more power, and a good bit more toque, but still lost/tied. Whats going on I see the root of all this problem as: GM=bad. DON'T JUMP ON ME TOO QUICK! The reason I say it like that is just because all of GM has really taken a bad turn over the past 15-20 years. As I have already pointed out, they can't engineer, nothing more to be said. The facts show it. But they also can't run a business, once again that is proven, GM themselves know that they are haveing trouble running the business (they loose money on EVERY softop cavalier that they sell), and over the last decade they brought in many a consulting firm to check it out and try to find the problem. Its very hard to pinpoint, as there are so many problems. GM products are badly designed (hello, whats with the new pontiac models??????), badly built (rattleboxes; this is cause they bully their suppliers), and badly marketed. And one more thing, you cannot even compare the Mustang aftermarket to the Camaro one, the mustang one is indisputably much larger. We around here don't think that camaros or corvettes are slow, we have respect for them. 5.0KILLER:you came here obviously trying to start fights, but, as you can see with this post, we are not like ricers or chevy people, we are very reasonable and will listen to anyone else who is reasonable. You can stay on the board and we will accept you as long as you don't blatantly start fights like this. [This message has been edited by dinomite (edited 05-01-2001).] |
Whew, that took a LONG time to write.
I just wanted to reiterate that we will welcome anyone here. We have a number of people who hang out here who don't drive mustangs (camaros, CRX, etc.) but come to this board because it is such a great place. We don't hold uneccessary grudges and will listen to anyone, so I hope that you can come to your senses and join us. |
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Not all chevy people start fights...I consider the Chevys that start fights DOMESTIC RICERS!!!!!!
A class allll their own http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/tongue.gif ------------------ Elisha~5.0 HO Racing (ahem HIGH OUTPUT!) 1994 GT: under top secret construction http://www.geocities.com/mustangbelle_306 Email: mustangbelle_306@yahoo.com AOL name: GT306Chick |
dinomite
One of the things your math does not show is weight. The Fox body Mustang's had about a 300-400 lb advantage on the F body. The Mustang has always been lighter. As far as those times quoted being accurate, I would have to disagree with that wholehartedly. Most of the car mags do this on a test. Rev to redline, dump clutch, shift at redline. While that may be great for engine noise and burnouts, it's not too great for 1/4 mile performance. As far as the F body being faster stock for stock, from 1993-current, I'd agree. 1987-1992, I wouldn't. As far as quality, I think the Mustang runs circles around the F body. Oh, and btw 5.0killer, I wouldn't be the least bit scared to race a bone stock LT-1 with my near stock 87GT. So far I haven't lost to any LT1's. Whoop de doo. [This message has been edited by Unit 5302 (edited 05-03-2001).] |
Ok...but let's be fair here 5.0Killer (if that IS your real name). First of all, Camaros have a size advantage to the tune of a little over a liter, (as dinomite has kindly pointed out) right? That's not an excuse...but an explanation. I think a lot of the trash talking just comes mostly from people with modified cars who have a heavy allegience to a specific brand. Perhaps a lot of it comes from back in the day when Camaros were getting stomped by Fox bodied Mustangs (ahhh...the 90's). Or maybe back into the early-to-mid 80s when VWs had better 0-60 times. And I much prefer the Mustang's styling a Z28. The SS's don't look too bad with that scoop, but (in my opinion...not tryin to flame ya or nothin) Z28s kinda look like a 3000GT at a glance. Just my $.02.
------------------ 1984 1/2 GT350 (#842 Hatchback w/ T-tops), 302HO, Comp cams Xtreme Energy cam, Carter 625cfm carb, Weiand Stealth intake, MSD distributor, MSD coil, FMS 9mm wires, 1 5/8" MAC unequal shorties, 2 1/2" MAC Prochamber H-pipe, Flowmaster 2 chambers, KYBs, 16"x8" 4 lug Cobra Rs, Falken 245/45ZR16s |
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Well I must admitt that I was a slight bit put off back in the day when i realized that the comaros make that extra 30-40 hp. I was like WTF?? I wondered why ford would put its mustang owners behind the 8 ball from the start. But what you have to realize is that the manufacturer doesn't give a youknow what about who has more HP or who wins a street race out of the factory. All they care about is the sales of the end product. And UNIT, correct me if I am wrong, http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/redface.gif but supposedly the mustangs still outsell the comaros and the firebords combined so there's no real reason for ford to make any changes in power output or whatnot.
And this makes sense to me because I way way more mid-late age women driving late model mustangs which prior to this discovery, perplexed me greatly. Oh and 5.0Killer......Welcome to the board http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/tongue.gif ------------------ 1987 black with t-tops. Cobra intake, 1.7 cobra crane rollers, gt40p's, bbk shorties, off road h-pipe, adj. FPR, rebuilt aod w/shift kit, 65mm TB, 4.10's 12.90's at best probably less, oops I mean worse. *** AOD's. IT'S MANUAL! Now for the T-5z! Semper Fi |
Unit is right about the weight, and that the F body has only beaten the mustang in the most recent years. But even with the weight thing, look at the gearing. I don't know exactly what it is, but I know they have a lot more in their rear than the mustang (mustang still comes with 3.08, the maro is higher 3).
The quality thing is my biggest problem with GM. Recently, one of my friends went to a car show and GM was bragging about how they got 350 horses out of their 350cu/in crate (read: performance) engine, WHOOPDIE F*CKING DOO!. The Ford 351 crate makes 385hp, 35 more, and I don't think that its coming from that extra 1 cubic inch. The reason that the camaro is faster as of late, is an attempt by GM to win back buyers. The company has had numerous problems in the past 15 years, and the biggest reason that they are still around is that they sell a LARGE portion of their products to fleet buyers: governments, rental companies, and large corporations. There was a very good article a couple months ago in Car and Driver by one of the editors talking about GM quality, he made some very good points, mainly pointin out that people are embarresd to drive the low quality products. GM is having lots of trouble, and is smply trying to get their act together. |
As far as i'm concered the camaro is not even in the same class as a Mustang.Quailty is the number 1 reason-looks number 2-and most importantly GM nuff said.And i will not argue the point that mustangs are faster stock because there not but a camaro will never feel drive or look like a mustang and i think sales will tell you everything you need to know.Hey 5.0killer come back in a few years and tell us about you discontined stock rattle trap
------------------ P.M.D. PERFORMANCE project BLACK DEATH 88GT |
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http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/rolleyes.gif ------------------ SHP RACING http://www.shpracing.com/images/shp_logo.gif http://www.shpracing.com/images/cars.gif www.SHPRACING.com Hang on for the ride of your life! |
hey are you guys all fogetting something without chevy ford would not be what it is, its called competition, Ive had many many cars and all ill buy is ford and yes chev, are you telling me a 67 mako vette 427 is a piece of crap cause if you are go kill yourself, also is the 350 apiece of junk think not 4 bolt mains steel crank many from the factory.I do prefer fords especially my 69 428 cj mustang but also about the irocs have you driven one cause if you have youd know they corner better. but the mustang IS a better car. if you need to make fun of something or someone make fun of some guy in an asian car. im american and thats what ill buy well not a dudge.. i also love dinomites comments on the ricer engines horsepower is NOTHING without torque thats what slams you in your seat, 200 horses and 90lbs of torque sounds like a real fun ride if your 102 years old. thats just what i think about all this and i know im not alone.. heres something funny also did toyota steal every idea possible from the f-150 and make it uglier or WHAT why would anyone buy one is beyond me.
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Mmmmmm....'67 427 Mako Shark and 428 CJ
<----drools ------------------ 1984 1/2 GT350 (#842 Hatchback w/ T-tops), 302HO, Comp cams Xtreme Energy cam, Carter 625cfm carb, Weiand Stealth intake, MSD distributor, MSD coil, FMS 9mm wires, 1 5/8" MAC unequal shorties, 2 1/2" MAC Prochamber H-pipe, Flowmaster 2 chambers, KYBs, 16"x8" 4 lug Cobra Rs, Falken 245/45ZR16s |
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You are right about the look and feel. I prefer the look of Mustang (more up to date)... but the feel... car for car (stock) the TA feels like so much more! Last year, I had the opportunity to drive my buddy's 30th Anniversary TA down the track. What a car! The shifter was tight, short throws, the car felt like it had a shiit load more power ... it almost felt like my father in law's C5!!! When I got back to my car, I new why the TA was more expensive (and worth the extra money). The stang requires so much more work to get down the track (longer clutch and incomfortable long throw shifting). This car was so much easier to drive I took it down the track at 13.19... I beat my buddy's best time back then! (13.21) It's the car in this video;30th Anniversary TA Love my Stang, but today's TAs and Camaros are superior for feel and speed. SkarodoM When you say US$27K for a vert 01 Stang GT Full load ... it still is more that our CAN$34K for the same thing... With the exchange it comes out to US$22K for our CAN$34K. Pardonnez my complex use of words at the wrong place... I'm french and it's late... Good night ladies / Bonsoir les Demoiselles. |
I honestly hold nothing against all the GM guys out there. I mean us ford guys can admit when we are beaten, and like someone allready said the "Z" is better than the stang. I mean cmon first of all they have a quality interior(**Cheap Plastic Crap**) They have powerful 5.7 motors (**Outdated Pushrod Technology!**) which are coupled to durable differentials(**7.5 inch P.O.S.**)And for sure with such a great car they will make them forever(**cough*discontinued*cough)
Damn, why didnt i get a "Z"! ------------------ 89 5.0 GT White w/Blue Racing Stripes K&N, 73mm Mass Air, Ported and Polished Stock Heads, E303 Cam, MAC equal Length Headers, Off Road H-Pipe, Borla Mufflers, 3.73's Sway Bars, Strut Tower Brace, Subframe Connectors, Eibach Springs, Koni Adjustables/Reds, Pony 5 Stars, 1000 Watt JL Audio System, No P/S , No Smog Pump |
you r also forgetting that if it wasnt for the mustang then hevy would never have designed the camaro.chevy started the camaro to compete with fords mustang becasue right from the start the mustangs sales were through the roof
------------------ 1995 gt convertible: 3.55 gears, underdrive pulleys, cobra intake , fenderwell cold air, 65mm throttle body, 75mm mass air meter, off-road h pipe, borla cat back, custom diablo chip, 155lph fuel pump lentech aode street terminator w/ 10" converter stalls at 2800 rpms, yokohama a520(drag radials) 275s |
The 427 Chevy is a pile.
Lot's of power, doesn't hold together. The professionals couldn't even get the thing to hold together in NASCAR, they'd really fly around the track and then 1/2 way through KABLOOOIE!!! Bout like the hi po 396. They'd really move for a little while. Keep my 427 a cross bolted Ford with dual quads in a Carrol Shelby modifed British designed A/C Cobra chassis. The only reason the 350 Chevy is worth the steel it's made out of is the fact 9.6 bazillion dollars has gone into research and design. If you are GM owner, (or a street rod guy) it's basically all you've had to work with for the last 30 years. You can make anything fast, even a Civic. I forgot, what are we arguing? Oh yes. Which is better, Ford or Chevy. LOL, on a Ford Mustang Website! We know what the better vehicle is, we own it. |
Hehehe http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/biggrin.gif, Unit ... have you been drinkin' ... hehehe your post is the most upside (rambling) down one I've seen since I'm here. Couldn't help myself, just call me a post whoarrrr.
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Man there is some people on this board that I just dont get. What the hell is all of this talk about chevy cant engineer. Other than a couple of heavily modded 5.0's and mach 1's, the camaros chevelles novas vettes and engine swapped s-10's phuckin dominate the street and strip here where I live I own a chevy a ford and a honda and I take them for what they are all car manufacturers make a turd every now and then.If you just dont like the styling of chevy thats one thing but I can tell you that chevy engineers many an @sswhoopin every weekend over here http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/smile.gif
------------------ 88 mustang gt convertible BBk equal length headers mac cold air intake cowl hood nitto drag radials ford racing clutch flow masters h-pipe 180 degree thermostat 16 degrees of timing |
speaking of Ford vs Chevy, what does anyone think about the Focus? Has Ford got something here that we'll see for a long time? I know it was euro car of the year and all, but how has it been doing here?? Any numbers???
Also, the camaro vs mustang debate. I honestly think its the person behind the decision. Personal experience tells me that chevy is a pile of crap. Excluding the engine, the cars tend to fall apart. The 350 was supposed to be one of the heyday products from GM. Someone said it earlier, what about fords 351?? I guess 1 cu adds a lot http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/rolleyes.gif I of course like the looks of some GM products but I am very loyal to Ford. I have never had or ever seen in my Family's history a major problem with Ford. Ever notice that a lot of pretty boys(or girls) drive nice chevy trucks all lifted and chrome. Pretty aren't they..... http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/rolleyes.gif Now go look at the farmer that has a 1965 ford truck that he uses on his farm all the time. It probably has about 200k miles on it and still going. Again, my personal opinion only... ------------------ 1966 Baby blue Coupe, 289, Manual 3-speed, Edelbrock 650, Flowmaster 3-chambers, and minor upgrades. Interior work includes custom paneling, custom dash dress-up(I refuse to cut anything out of the original), Rewiring most of the electronics, Porsche 911 seats installed soon, and Stroker kit when I get to Texas. November of 2001 I will go back to Dallas. |
One other thing, if your one of the oldest companies in the USA you might have been doing something right. Ford is so old that it is designated on the NYSE with only the letter "F". For those of you not familiar with the NYSE(New York Stock Exchange), the current system has stock designated with 4 letter codes. You do the math....
------------------ 1966 Baby blue Coupe, 289, Manual 3-speed, Edelbrock 650, Flowmaster 3-chambers, and minor upgrades. Interior work includes custom paneling, custom dash dress-up(I refuse to cut anything out of the original), Rewiring most of the electronics, Porsche 911 seats installed soon, and Stroker kit when I get to Texas. November of 2001 I will go back to Dallas. |
Wow I thought I was the only one on this board with a 428CJ. Cool to find out someone else has one too.
I have never disliked chevy personaly I am just a ford fan and always will be. I am just happy to see American cars out there kicking butt. ------------------ 69 428 cobra jet: tons of mods. 97 f-150 5.4 xlt mark III BUCKLE UP. SUCK IT IN. Objects in the mirror are about to disappear... QUICKLY!!!!!! |
Man, all this talk about Chevy vs. Ford...I had to put in my $.02. I have so much to say but I'm not trying to make this long. First of all, I respect Mustangs, why else would I be here? And I also respect fast Imports. Its about having fun and racing. I'm glad there are "ricers" out there cuz it gives us something else to race. Racing Mustangs/Camaros all day long can get old. Change can be good.
I will admit though, its easier for me to start a race with someone driving a Stang opposed to a camaro. I dunno why, but you guys are always quick about racing. Its hard to get someone in an LT1/LS1 to start something. Its like they're too good to race. (I'm not trying to put down Chevy, I am one.) And its almost impossible to get a C5 to do anything. Most of em look straight ahead and pay me no attention. But as soon as I pull next to a GT or Cobra, they don't hesitate to race. Oh, and I can't forget about TA's and WS6's. I feel its hard to get them to race also. But some do. Maybe its the area I live in...I dunno. Anyone else notice this? I guess what I'm trying say is, I think (personally) drivers in stangs (especially older stangs) have a lil better attitude to race than drivers in camaro's/vette's/TA's/WS6's. But I'm still gonna stay true to my Z. And I'm always willing to race no matter what breed you are As long as I have enough gas. http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/smile.gif ------------------ 1992 Z28 TPI. 160' stat, Accel 8mm, Accel Cap & Rotor, Flowmaster, high-flo cat. 700R4, 3.73s HD Zexel Torsen |
who really gives a crap? If you are blinded by brand loyalty, you miss a lot of what's out there. I like both my 90 5.0 lx and my 84 z-28. Each has it's own unique qualities.
------------------ 1990 5.0 lx aod no power adder best 60 ft: 2.05 best 1/8th mile: 8.84 best mph: 83.07 |
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------------------ SHP RACING http://www.shpracing.com/images/shp_logo.gif http://www.shpracing.com/images/cars.gif www.SHPRACING.com Hang on for the ride of your life! |
Cliff92Z, I totally noticed what you are talking about. Stang drivers seem to go at it without question, where the LS1 group seem to be to "civilized" to do anything but Sunday drive.
But that also opens another can of worms... What about the Mustang driver's reputation out there. I know that there are many preconceived ideas that Stang drivers are eediot & dangerous drivers... Some people will go out and bash us as wife beaters and hicks. Some will say that Mustang drivers are like @ssholes ... everybody has one. Others simply think of it as their dream car... How many times have I gone by a group of kids that where screaming "burnout"... I mean does stang = wheel spin? |
i have a question. i need to know if anyone has done this to their stang by only using these parts: Stock heads,intake, throttle body, stock electronics and stroke it to a 347 and put bigger injectors and fuel pump to compensate for the displace ment. has anyone done that exact combo? stay with me....
now that the Stang would be 347 compared to a LT1 350, would there be a begger advantage? how much more power (est.) would the stang have? would this then be equal to displacement? the only thing next is weight of the vehicle, which Chevy is more heavy.(didnt mean that to rhyme! http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/smile.gif) so would it be fair to pair the 2 up like that? what would the results be like? i think it would be more even now, but the Stang would weigh less, but it always comes down to displacement. im comparing the 5.0 to the LT1 350 http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/smile.gif so that is the question, would it then be somewhat equal? |
Yes, actually, that has been done. When DSS (i think) was designing and testing their emission legal 347 kit, they put on together with stock heads, cam, intake, t-body, maf, injectors, everthing. i think they used a slightly larger fuel pump, but that's all. unfortunately, since the stock stuff is restrictive even for a 302, it was of course amplified on the 347. it only had about 20 more hp, but did make something like 40 lbs. (30 maybe?) more torque, and at a slightly lower peak. all in all, it was good.
of course, now the car has full edelbrock and puts out 400 something to the wheels, and is still emission legal with cats. btw, these articles were in 5.0 magazine, i believe. maybe super ford, but i know it wasn't mm&ff. you could look up the info. ------------------ 95 GT Pulleys, headers, off road, 3.55's, Tremec 3550, Cobra Clutch 14.4's @ 96mph before exhaust Beats auto LS1's after Visit my homepage |
Just take a look at the 5.8L Cobra R's.
Rated at 280hp 340lb/ft. (Subject to disagreement) The R was badly underrated. Oh well. |
We all know that Fords are of higher quality and can make more power with just a few modifications. Let's move on. http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/biggrin.gif
This whole discussion makes me think of the head-to-head tests that they sometimes do on Car and Driver TV like the Chevy trucks vs. the Ford trucks. It's great to have something that is powerful out of the box, but it's also great to know that your investment isn't going to be a squeeky rust bucket in 6 years. Unless you're obsessive about taking care of your car, that's what you'll have with a Chevy. Fords last despite the abuse they take. A friend of mine owns a 1986 Pace Car convertible Corvette with only 36k miles on it. It's always been garaged and maintained. The interior is falling apart and it has a major battery drain somewhere. It's fun to drive, but I don't think I would own one unless I got a really good deal. Unfortunately Chrysler stuff fits a similar category. The styling on some of their cars is really sharp, but since the interior and metal they use on the cars is of a low quality, they aren't worth buying. Ford uses the highest quality parts of any other, non-European manufacturer. ------------------ 351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible |
280hp on the R common????
------------------ 99 A4 SS black convert.#223 All the free mods,K&N,cut out. 13.2 1/4 mile at 105 mph. |
more crap in one place than a fertilizer factory http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/smile.gif ~~ and thats from both sides.. Whoever said chevy cant engineer is an idiot.. would you say the Z06 is poorly engineered?? and you act like the LS1 is the same 350 chevy has been making for decades when it was only recently COMPLETELY redesigned.. it is consistently rated as one of the 10 best engines in the world (by hemmings?).. it is underrated by GM (as opposed to Ford over-rating theirs ~ remember the 99&2k Cobras.. and the bullit).. The Z06 smacked the Cobra R all over the place and it has little things like A/C.. a radio.. insulation.. and its 10's of thousands cheaper..
As for Mustangs they in many was superior to fbodies.. they are easier to live with on a daily basis.. easier to get in and out of.. cheaper to insure.. and they have a SLIGHLY better build quality.. ive read several "consumer report" type mags and some rate the mustang better this ways.. others not.. both cars have crappy seats. fbody rears are a weaklink but they do seem to handle up to 420rwhp without breaking.. one can not expect stock parts to handle mod increased HP.. I love Mustangs.. I love Camaros (SS).. I hate the "my car is better than your car" stuff.. thats why guys with older car seem so much more mature.. they look at fords, chevys, dodge, etc and like them all for what they are.. American Muscle Cars.. Ford and GM are both a couple of modern companies ran by accountants.. they lost most of their desire to compete against each other long ago.. Oh.. and the HP per Liter argument is still a rice thing.. who care what your displacement is.. faster is faster.. remember that most fbods are under-rated and do well over 300hp at the rear wheels.. too bad we cant take the best atributes of each car and combine them.. hmmm.. ------------------ 2000 M6 SS Camaro.. mostly stock go mods.. lots of show stuff.. 320rwhp & 333rwtq corrected SAE |
I love the f-body. WS6 rocks. N'uff said http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/smile.gif
The problem isn't the engineers. One of my best friends works at Siemens, desingning an air intake for the new Northstar engine. You wouldn't beleive the great stuff they come out with - but as soon as the market-specialists and accountants get a hold of it, you've gone from gaining a solid 20HP from an intake to 2HP http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/frown.gif It's the general public, even with muscle cars, they insist they be "fuel efficient" and "quiet" http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/frown.gif As for the new 'Vette, i love it too. But the C-4 blows chunks. You wonder why it's touhg to get an LS1 to race? 'Cause they cost $40 freaking thousand bucks - and only geasers can afford that, and geasers for the most part DON'T RACE! I pulled up to a geaser once in a '00GT. When i asked him to race, the f*cker rolled up his window, shaking his head at me, then looked the other way http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/mad.gif Wonder why stang owner are stereotyped? Cause for the most part, they're young, driving an affordable muscle car capable of blowing away the next door's geaser's $70K Benz, or buddies rice bucket, then people get mad, fact. That's my fifty cents http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/smile.gif |
About the ZO6...Weren't the LS6 engines recalled for poor oiling? I thought I read that somewhere.
------------------ 1989 lx notch 89,000 miles bolt-ons,stock heads/cam 60'- 2.07, 8.90@78, 13.93@99 |
I totally agree with the "run what ya brung" concept. I don't care what the ci is. The GN was kicking butt many years ago with a v6, although it was turbocharged, it was stock and came with a warranty. I like the camaro fine but I don't like the way my head is 1" from the roof.. pot hole= headache. I have considered buying a ls1. I had a z71 with the 5.3 and that is a good motor! I will say this though, just wait til next year!
I had a talk with a SVO guy at ffw in fla and he couldn't say much but he said "just wait 'til next year". Leads me to believe the 4.6 or 5.4 will be kicking a little butt next year... ------------------ Rick My 89lx(updated 2/21/2001) My 97 Cobra [This message has been edited by rbatson (edited 05-10-2001).] |
The Z06 isn't badly engineered, its a great car, and they seem to have tossed some that engineering down into the camaro in the latest model year. But they can't keep that up for long, as they are making VERY little profit on the camaro in this model year (why do you think they are killing it?), the only reason that they are doing this is to try and get some buyer loyalty. end of story. GM in general has been having a LOT of trouble lately (past 15 odd years), thats indisputable. They have tried many things to try and improve their image, but they have soooo many problems its very hard. More than half of the cars they sell are to fleet operations (rental car companies, corporate offices, etc. people that just want it CHEAP), they have lived on those sales and their MASSIVENESS over the past 15 years. THe corvette is the premier of GM, and as of late, the camaro is RIGHT behind it, but the rest of GM cars are absolute crap. They are horribly built and made with bad parts. They are built badly cause they don't treat the employees well, and bad parts cause they badger their suppliers (plastic companies, metal companies, etc). GM is in a lot of trouble and, as i said before, the new fast camaro is just an attempt to get buyers, they don't make much on it. GM actually LOOSES money on EVERY softop cavalier they sell! something around 1k! and they had to drop one of their longstanding divisions.
Someone up there ^^^ said that its not a problem with the engineers, but the marketing people who destroy the designs, you may very well be right! but the fact is thats killing the company, and has been doing so very slowly for years. What i'm saying is: The camaro is faster, but its going away, and its quality isn't really a testament to the rest of the company, cause its somewhat a flagship, and a tool for their marketing people. |
Isn't this just like a Chevy guy?? Start a fight then tuck tail and run http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/tongue.gif
I have my opinions on those new F-bodied card. I think the "F" stands for "F$#ked". They look like a door stop with that sloping shape they have and I wouldn't even care to own one if it were half the price of a new Mustang (not exaggerating a bit). I raced an LS1 the other day. Hell, I thought it was a Probe sitting next to me because I couldn't see very much of it other than the slope and mirror on the door. When the light turned green I gave him about a car length head start (still thinking it was a Probe) and then gave it hell. It was at that moment I realized it was a Slomaro and was pi$$ed at myself for not taking him off the line. Anyway, by the time I hit 3rd gear I was gaining on him a little, and he was still only a car length ahead of me. We stopped to talk and he said he paid $27,000 for that car. I have $10,000 wrapped up in mine and I know I'd have smoked him if I was prepared. Pay close to $30k for a rattle box, or find a sweet looking Fox body for $4k and dump $6k into it and see who wins. I guarantee you the Mustang will every time. Plus, the chicks around here dig the Stangs more. ------------------ Too much to list. Best ET on the car so far with stock 2.73 gears - 13.73@102mph Indiana Stangers Association Buy your parts here ICQ# 42269241 |
I have to tell you something about ricers. I actually own a stock '90 CRX, as well as a V6 Mustang. I'd have to say that my CRX is much faster, which doesn't say much compared to a v6. After dropping the clutch in second gear, and peeling out the tires several times, the transmission has a bad bearing. So, IMHO, a ricer won't last long on the strip, even though they are fast. But HP isn't as important to me as cornering. I enjoy more auto-x than dragging. Auto-x is alot of fun, and takes a fairly skilled driver to do it well. This is where the CRX, and my Porsche 914 is superior. Don't even come near me in any of your Vettes, Cobras, etc. with those on the auto-x course http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/wink.gif. TBH, I was fairly impressed that my stock '95 Mustang could hold it's own on a corner. Big difference from early models. Now that I need to replace my shocks and springs, I might be able to get closer to the performance of my 914, but not quite http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/wink.gif.
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