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A Cop Tells Me . . .
Well to get to the story I went to traffic court yestrday. Both the cops I was against showed up. I got nailed on both tickets. The judge just acted like I was lying. He gave more credit to an old guy who was locked in on Radar doing 81mph.
So I was going to my basketball game last night going up the street my mom lives on. I dropped it into 2nd to nail the gas and kinda say hi to her as I drove by. I proceeded to hold down the gas till into 3rd. Going about ~55mph. Then I coasted upto the Gym just up the street. As I pull over. LIGHTS. ******. I don't know where he came from. I sure as hell was guilty though. Officer pulls me over, I told him I had no excuse, I was just blatantly speeding, and I just fucked up. He starts to yell at me, asking me if my speedo doesnt work. Then he goes, youve modified this car way to far. "DONT YOU KNOW WHEN TO STOP" This thing isnt even close to being street legal anymore. You need to know when enough is enough on a car. I got really really ******* irritated at this point. I told him to get out and start inspecting my car. I said, TELL ME WHATS NOT STREET LEGAL THEN. He just shut up and went back to his car. He comes back saying the cars stolen and registered to Jose in Ventura. At this point I was FED UP with his lies, I said, You know what SIR THAT IS IMPOSSIBLE. GO CHECK AGAIN. So my mom came up the street, luckily, and explained I just do that to say hi to her, and to please let me off. He deciedes to let me off because of the other two tickets I had today. But he goes on to lecture me for 5 min, saying I need to learn to control my car and my bad driving. And that he was going to be looking for me, and that "I couldnt hide in this car." He said "One slip up and your gone." My conclusion..... Cops are good for writing tickets only. They dont want to deal with any real crime. My house gets robbed, they cant and dont do **** about it. What does it all come down to? Money! Theres lots of money in milking the middle class american for a traffic ticket. They dont want to go after guys with guns. Skyler |
**** guy sorry to hear about that bs you were put threw. I would of been so tempted to punch the cop in the face. Not that I would do that, but he was being a total *******. They tell you just to tell the truth and that will help solve things easier and you obviously told him and he goes on his little power trip. I believe your exactly right on the money involved with tickets. Not saying all cops are bad, (g/f's dad is cop so I gotta watch myself. lol) but there are some out there with to much spare time. And who's he to say your car is to modded up. You can never be to fast. :D
Take it easy, don't worry tommorow will be a new day. §am. |
The way I think about cops is like this: (in no way does this apply to every officer) When I was in high school, occasionally I would ask certain people what they wanted to do with their lives. All my smart friends would say the usual, "doctor, lawyer, stock broker, etc etc." On the other hand, all my friends who were punks or wanna be gangsters would all say they wanted to either be in the military, or be a cop. Moral: who do you think becomes a cop. Joe Blow who graduated from Harvard and truly wants to help people, or the guy who maybe did a couple years of junior college, then just wanted a decent paying, exciting job. Most of these guys are tripped out on power, and just love to exert their force on the well off guys like us.
One example: When some friends of mine had wallets, cell phones, etc stolen from a party, and confronted the four african americans who did it, they got beat up, and called the cops. The cops came out, and my friends gave them the vehicle description and liscense plate number. Think the cops even bothered to go find that car... NO!! My friends never got anything back. But you think if I ran from a cop and he had my liscense number that he'd come get me?!? YES!!! For some cops, it's all about power, and exerting it on those who are not a real threat. |
That really sucks, Skyler. You're just going to have to take it easy for a while.
I had a Ventura PD cop who had it out for me in the late 80's. My license had been suspended, but the day it was reinstated, he pulled me over, and said the computer showed that it was still suspended. He wrote me a ticket, and made me walk away from the car. Told me that if I was telling the truth about my license being valid again, all I would have to do is show proof to the judge. Well, that was the easy part. What sucked was that since the cop wrote the ticket anyway, the DMV went and suspended my license again. The judge told me it was all a misunderstanding, and that I should be able to straighten it out with the DMV when I showed them my yellow paper they give you in court, showing that the charges were dismissed. Before I could get to the DMV, that same cop pulled me over again. I wasn't doing anything wrong. He said that he pulled me over because as far as he knew, my license was suspended. I showed him the court papers, but he still wrote me another ticket. This turned into a 6 month circus between me, the court, the DMV, and this prick cop. It finally was resolved, and my license was returned to me, but not before being stopped AND ticketed by that jerk 4 times. I was encouraged to file a complaint against him at the VPD, which I did, but he still beat me. On the last suspended license ticket he wrote me, he added that I was speeding. Said I was doing 45 on Ralston (40mph limit). I didn't even see that. I thought it was just a suspended license ticket again, so I didn't fight it with him. When I got to court, I had the paperwork from the DMV, but the judge noted that I still had a speeding ticket, which I denied, but he still found me guilty. That one ticket stuck, and became the one point I needed to have it suspended again. I made a living delivering pizza's, too. That cop made my life hell. As it turns out, most cops in Ventura county get rotated every 4 to 6 months, so I never saw him again, but he did enough damage. Anyway, the guy that's giving you crap will hopefully be rotated out of Ojai before the summer, so just try and drive cool until then. You will always have Ventura and Camarillo to show off in until then. ;) If he does stop you again, and it's a BS reason, get his name and file a complaint. That gives you the upperhand if there's a next time after that. Good luck, man. Take care, -Chris P.S. You're missing some killer racing at the track. I'm starting to think you aren't into racing as much as I thought you were. ;) We run again a week from this Saturday (April 6th). |
Tickets and reality
Well, when you speed or otherwise break the traffic laws, you always risk getting bagged by some constipated cop who'll mess with you, especially if you're a younger guy. That's just a given and I've been a 'victim' of that kind of legal harassment too.
The fact that this particular cop made a big deal about your car being modified shows the mindset; he would love to control exactly what he thinks everyone should drive. The urge to control other people is a powerful one for those in authority and why we value our freedoms and rights, but that doesn't mean that a local Barney Fife with a grudge against you can't make your life hell. Most traffic tickets are simply revenue-enhancers for the towns and cities and probably only a fraction are given for truly dangerous driving, like DUI and triple-digit speeds. That's been true forever and probably won't ever really change. Part of driving. Sorry for your troubles; I hope things cool down soon and this cop is off your case. Meanwhile, watch it and don't give him more reasons to nail you because, fair or not, the cop has all the power in these situations and as you've found out, the courts back him up, 99 times out of a hundred. Sad but true. |
you got that right
SKYMAN... I totaly agree with your outlook on cops. Every weekend they break up the street races and pull over everyone with a sports car on the drag.
On a Friday or Saturday night there are 20+ cops out on the local cruising spot pulling over everyone for any little thing. You would think they would go find some real crime. I got in a bad wreck last year luckily everyone was OK....Some guy pulled out in front of me and I nailed him in the side going 55mph I didnt even have time to break. Me 97 F-150, Him 01 Tahoe both cars were obviously totaled. The cop looks at my license and says do you still live at this addess and I say "No Sir I dont" He goes to his car and comes back with a ticket that costed me $106.00 for being honest. Sometimes honesty isnt always the best policy, and alot of cops Suck! Later, |
Man Sky that really sucks. I haven't had any problems with the cops while driving my stang (knock on wood). I would have jsut about flipped on him if he started going off about how my car wasn't street legal or modded way to far. Is it legal for him to say that your car is actually registered to Jose in venture and that it is stolen?????
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Sorry to hear about running into a cop with a bad attitude. I wouldn't worry about the whole "stolen car" thing. The fact is, if you've got the title and everything is legit then you have nothing to fear. I would take those kind of threats with "a grain of salt" -- don't let this cop or any other one get the best of you. If he wants to throw a fit and insult you and demonstrate his ignorance then let him do so.
About the whole speeding deal and whatnot. I learned very quickly (the 1st time driving my mustang) that driving a loud sports car (or any sports car in general) is sort of like being the prez. of the USA.....everyone has their eye on you ALL of the time and they are all just waiting for you to screw up so they can call you on it. |
I got a ticket last wednesday. 41 in a 25 in an area where it is basically impossible to go 25. Right down a hill. No one goes 25 down that hill.
The damn cops had thier bikes down a side street and were hiding behind a bush! I was just cruisin like normal and then this cop runs out into the street and motions for me to pull over. I was like **** As i pulled away they got two more freaking people! There is so much better thing for them to do then to give tickets on a sleepy road that not a whole lot of traffic goes through. Especially because there are roads not far away that have people who speed and street race on them all the time. Damn cops and thier quotas :mad: Later |
Dude, that sucks SOOOO hardcore.
Loser cops. Most of the doughnut eating, 50point IQ havin, human power trip with a gun don't even know the laws. They have nothing better to do than drive around and ticket people all day. They are never around when you need them, and don't do their job worth a ****. Quite frankly, they might as well cut back law enforcement by 80%. Wouldn't make a difference. In my city of 20,000 there is 1 totally unmarked silver Crown Vic, 1 totally unmarked Navy Taurus, and 1 totally unmarked White Grand Am. There is absolutely NO justfiable reason for a cop to have an unmarked for everyday enforcement. Undercover operations yes, normal operations HELL NO!!! Just a big revenue machine. Makes me sick, and increases my level of dislike and distrust for the flatfoots every time. Why don't they get a real job instead of harrassing people all day driving around and eating doughnuts? Oh wait, it's cause they are too fricken stupid! |
Some cops are cool some are TOTAL *** holes.
Teenagers get the worst crap from them. I've been at several parties, where the cops, showed up and my car got searched for no reason. Probable cause my ***, there wasn't one drop of liquior of pot at the whole party.:mad: My brother has had cops actully turn around and follow him, when he had his GT. |
argh!! cops!
My buddy was giving me a ride in his old stang (93 GT) and kinda flying around. When we got back to my house, this cop pulls up and turns on the lights!! My friend had his car in the driveway, parked, and off . The cop had no reason to turn the lights on. He then came up to the car (my friend was still in it) and questioned him about what he had been doing. My friend said he was just giving me a test ride and the cop got irritated with that answer. He grabbed my friend's arm and tried pulling it out the window!! We were shocked and didn't know what to do. The cop gave him two tickets (even though he didn't see us doing anything but sitting in my driveway). When we went to court to fight it, the judge let the cop tell his side first.
The cop told this elaborate story about how we were racing in the car. The judge let my friend get two words out before he said he was guilty!?! We filed a complaint against the cop but nothing was done. Between the two of us, we've received 6 or 7 tickets courtesy of this one damn cop. |
>:(
SKYLER,
I think you need to tell him to meet you at the track then open up a can of WhoopA$$ on him!!!! IMO ofcorse!!!!!! :) Sorry man, that sux. I feel for ya! |
Grrrr :mad:
that's BS, I'd be pissed too.... |
sounds like the police dept. where I live...
2 summers ago they picked up a guy on a riding lawn mower and gave him a DWI,turns out the guy was drinking,but who knows,maybe he was mowing a friends yard,then just heading back home *LOL* :D geez I mean the top speed of a riding lawn mower is what? :rolleyes: |
You are lucky he let you go.
That is the truth about cops and money. Most cops are little punks that got the crap beat out of the in highschool and now want revenge on the world. They love the power being able to ruin someones day and costing people a crap load of time and money. Most of the time if a cop is yelling at me or giving me threats i won't take it. I will yell right back and tell him to give me my ticket and bother someone else. My self pride gets me in trouble sometimes. |
I agree with you man! I got pulled over a few times cuz the cop (or should I say PIG) "thought" that I was racing. Some times having a NICE, lound sportscar sucks :rolleyes:
If I was you, the next time I saw him on the street... I would though my car into N and rev the motor as high as I could just to piss him off!!!! They can't do anything to you for reving your motor :D |
There are a few nice cops though. I got lucky one time racing my friend in my '79 with a 4 cyl. I was going about 90-95 in a 55mph zone, when i seen him. I tried to slow down real fast, but when I did, I only had one hand on the steering wheel, making the car swerve a little back and forth. He pulled me over a little ways down the street. He came up to the window, asked me why I was going so fast, when I pointed at my friend, and siad I was racing him. He had a little toyota 4x4. He said he clocked me at 74 and said if I was going 75, or more, he'd give me a ticket. He also told me his cut off points too, on a sunny day, 70 gets u pulled over, 75 is a ticket. He let me go with a verbal warning. Got lucky on that one.
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Ok, here's the voice of reason coming in, so get ready to hate me.
Yeah, lots of cops are dicks, but the lousy ones make a bad name for the officers that actually DO their job, and don't just write up tickets. I would imagine the most incomptent cops are stuck on traffic duty. And yes, I think its OK and perfectly understandable to have the mean old police officer break up your street racing (I say this when I used to go every weekend), because whether you like it or it, it IS illegal, and people DO get hurt. Not usually because of Mustang euthansists, but stupid ricers running around doing risky burnouts or pulling the e-brake too close to other people. Either way, many unfortunate times has it PROVEN itself dangerous,.and therefore I can't look down on them for breaking it up,especially when they usually just tell us to get going instead of handing out stupid tickets. I considered myself lucky when that happened, not like my "civil rights" were being violated :rolleyes: Sky, I regret that the cops in your area haven't been doing their job, but the average person will rag on the police when they get a ticket, then call them the minute they need assistance, and expect them to show up ASAP. I think a career in law enforcement is probably one of the most thankless professions...having to respond to domestic violence calls, deadly traffic accidents, or some other emergency call---just to be called "pigs" by the public. Sure, some of them ARE pigs, purposefully picking on V8s and handing out worthless tickets, but some actually do their job, and I think sometimes people forget that :) |
Yeah 1 out of 100 are good, for the first 6mo on the job. Then it drops to 1 out of 1000.
It's not because they enforce laws, it's because they enforce with prejudice, and angst. You're damn right we expect them to show up ASAP, that's their fricken job. They aren't gonna get much thanks from me for doing it once in a while. Actually, they are supposed to show up and actually do something. Like that happens a lot when your **** gets busted into, or something goes down that stinks. The career is thankless because they are on a power trip, harrass the crap out of people, surround themselves with assholes, and expect a big thank you every time they actually do their job right. I maintain there are VERY few that do their job. |
mustanguy...my buddy has a 88gt that looks identical to yours...his has a 347 though
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That is unfortunate that some cop was harassing you when you were just trying to have a good time. Of course you did admit that you were guilty of the offense. But still, messing with you when you break the law instead of doing something useful, like sitting in front of your house in case someone decides to break in. Oh...I guess that does sound a little unreasonable. But COME ON!! Speeding? What kind of stupid law is that? It is all about the money. Of course, speed related crashes cost tax payers over 23 billion dollars a year. But we can spend our tax dollars any way we please! That goes for insurance too. If we want to pay out of the a** for insurance, we will! But then, there are the 1,000 Americans per MONTH who die from speed related accidents. But that isn't us! Those are the other idiot who can't drive. Although, it is true that when we speed, we make other drivers nervous and lessen their reaction time to us. But still, their fault, not ours. Those darn cops should know the difference between the people who are driving like idiots, and those of us who only appear to be driving like idiots but are actually highly trained and skilled individuals at the helm of a well tuned, and clearly phallic machine. That genious who stated ever so elloquently a few posts back that we should fire 80% of the cops is right. Lets just keep the 20% who are not only psychic, but only enforce the laws we want them to enforce. And furthermore......ummm....cops bad.....quota.........doughnut.............. I guess that's it.
R. Eason (try listening sometime) |
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Sup All,
I don't know what some of you are thinking (no offense) i mean yeah there are alot of lil ****** cops out there being a Jacka**s and pulling people over just for the hell of it, but what about the cops that do there job, hell i am probally going to be a CHP and i sure as hell don't back down to anyone and im in highschool, but if you think about it we usually on hear about the bad cops and how many of you have gotten off with just warnings? oh well i guess im just saying that don't group all cops together like that and say they are all ****s Steven |
My experience with cops as civilians
Here is my opinion based on my friend who was a police explorer (volunteer cop) and is now a volunteer as a county cop while he's in ROTC in the army (did someone mention messed up people being in military/law enforcement parchance :D) Anyway, i would NEVER want to be pulled over by him because he's an @sshole and he told me about all the cops and how they bragged about what kind of cars they pulled over and how much they ticketed them for. He also told me about how most of the cops are psychos that he went for ride alongs with (since he was an "insider" he saw alot of shady stuff). I've actually had MUCH BETTER luck with state troopers than with local area police because it takes alot of effort to become a state trooper as well as mental exams and polygraph tests on top of the rigorous physical tests and i believe that state troopers have to either be volunteers in the military or have miliatary background, but i'm not sure. All of this is relevant to washington state.
Another one of my friends was a roommate with a cop who was absolutely psycho, would take him chevy lumina and park like a cop who was radaring (it was dark blue and looked kinda like something a cop would drive) and sit there for hours for no reason other than watch people slam on their brakes. He also would wake up my friend with a stun gun every morning. Really weird psycho. For me i've never met a city cop that i liked most of them in my opinion are just a step above a security gaurd. County cops mostly ticket and in my opinion are generally useless. State Troopers give tickets on the freeway, but since i've gotten off one ticket for being in a multiple car crash and i got a ticket for 19 over where the cop didn't mess with me i don't have much of a problem with them so far. What am i trying to say.....well.....i HATE seeing cops sitting with a radar gun and i usually flick them off after i pass (put my finger down where they can't see it) because there's nothing that pisses me off more than when i hear about bad things happening to people and more effort was put into traffic duty than to responding to calls. This, of course, is just my opinion. |
My mom was pulled over a few times by the same Cop And he did not know that she is on a few City Board's with the Chief Well she told him about what he had done well he said he would Talke to him and well.... he dont do it any more Does give a few Nasty looks tho we live about 3 Blocks from the Police Station see them alot here........just this week there is a very road that all most every ones turns left from it they put a No left hand trun up they are doing road work there well They were pulling them over left and right they lined out on the road waiting for people to come...... it is like a 3 miles to the next road the goes that way too..
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Avoiding radar is part of playing the game. You can drive fast, or you can drive without fear of persecution. You can't have it both ways. |
23billion, according to whose figures? LOL. Oh, you mean at least one of the vehicles was moving?
Speeding tickets are REVENUE MAKERS. Nothing else. If you don't believe that, oh well, I don't have time to pursuade you. You can look up the research for yourself. Traffic enforcement is fine. Doing real work is better (I hope you're not insinuating robberies and theft are not real crimes to be deterred, or solved, spyguy) . Some of my best friends are going to be cops. There are two sides. Great people, if you know them. Jerks if you don't. |
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It's been my experience that people who go into law enforcement react just like people who go into any profession; If they were pricks before, they'll probably be pricks on the job, and if they were cool before, then they'll probably be cool on the job.
I know that here in Ventura County, the Sheriffs Department has the highest turnover of officers. They train them, break them in, and then they go off and become a cop in some other town. The first 6 months of a VC Sheriff's Deputies career is spent working 10 hour shifts at the Todd Road Jail. That jail was built with blueprints for a maximum security prison, and is no cakewalk. It houses 2500 inmates, and is usually at 75% capacity. They are put right into the mix of things, and are taught right away that inmates are lower forms of life, that deserve no special treatment. By the time they finish their 6 months, they go for the next 6 months as a ride along partner with a senior deputy, out in the field. By this time, they have become totally accustomed to the concept that everyone who looks mildly different is guilty of something. They also are fresh off of a power trip that even the biggest high school nerd could not have fantasized. This tends to make them hardened asshol*s, with an attitude. They are jerks, whose sh*t doesn't stink, and they are better than anyone else. This is exactly how the Sheriff's Department wants them to be, and is one of the main reasons why they are in such demand by other states and towns. VC deputies are the first choice by most law enforcement agencies that are recruiting. This county can't crank them out fast enough. Still, the ones who were cool going in, tend to be cool coming out. The cop sitting there with the radar gun didn't go to work and say "I don't feel like patrolling a bad neighborhood and looking for burglaries today, so I'm just going to go use my radar gun and eat donuts all day". They are assigned. If you have a problem with the way your town does things, attend a City Council meeting, and voice your concern. Don't whine about the guy doing his job. It's also been my experience that at least 70% of the rookies were the same guys and gals that got picked on in high school. The nerds. The dorks. The guys you laughed at because their shirt was buttoned up wrong, or who always came to class after lunch with brown stuff stuck to their teeth. They then get to take out their suppressed anger on the same people, or perceived types of people, that upset them so much just a few years before. This is, IMHO, why there really are so many cops out there that are just plain jerks on a power trip. There are, however, a whole lot of really cool cops too. One of them is a member on this site, although I haven't seen him around for a couple of months. I'm not proud of it, but better than 3 of my nearly 36 years on this planet were spent behind bars. The longest single stretch was for a year. I also have known many cops on the outside. I know of what I speak. Take care, -Chris |
True about the city council and mayor deciding on what to enforce, but not true on how to enforce it. While there are technically laws in place to prevent "quotas," the quota is really a tool for the promotion to higher levels. Don't pull enough people over and write tickets, don't get a promotion. The St. Cloud, MN State Patrol office chief, and the State Patrol were recently named in a lawsuit by a deputy who was passed over for promotions because of his low ticketing rate.
By the way, Chris, since cops pick on people who they know the average Joe Blow doesn't care about (Sports car drivers etc) going to the city council meetings and complaining doesn't do a damn thing for ya. If anything, it makes you a target. The Hennepin County traffic violation ticket has gone from $72.50 in 1995 to $105.00 in 2001. Over double the rate of inflation. There are way more unmarked cars on the road than ever before, and these cars specialize in pulling people over all day, every day. The city isn't going to do anything about it, they make a killing off of all the tickets. When you go to traffic court, an arraignment officer of the city sits you down, has a look at your ticket, then offers to let you off with the DMV, and reduce the charge to something that doesn't go on your insurance in turn for you pleading guilty and the money then goes to the city. I see people pulled over all the time here on the highway that runs through town. Might as well label it "Revenue Strip Road." Write 5 tickets a day and you've paid your own salary, the car payment, and paid for the operation of your department. Course, there are so many ticket writers and cars that they HAVE to write tickets to pay for it all, otherwise it wouldn't be in the budget. It's a catch-22. Write more tickets to pay for more officers, and more officers and better equipment means you have to write more tickets. Sickening. The cops don't give a crap about most crime. They're out writing tickets so they can justify an overpopulation in their workforce that doesn't do much of their job. As the years have gone by, it's gotten more and more ridiculous. Hey 1BAD89, Kat Finley's site is really nice. It's not super busy at the moment, but more traffic has been flowing through in general. Very good people there, and no flaming. www.themustangnet.com If you feel like checkin it out, give it a look. |
Im sorta with the cop on this one. he souldnt have lectured you on your car being modded. But he let you off the hook, knowing you had 2 prior tickets that day!?! Most cops would have written you up. That was nice of him. Im putting myself in the cops shoes on this one and i would have written you a ticket, then slapped your mom upside the head with the night stick for saying something so stupid. Most people just beep the horn and wave when they want to say Hi. not go WOT.
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nothing against you sky, but this is typical. everytime someone does something against the law, and the cops catch him, the cops are all of a sudden jerks, and are good for nothing. i come from a long line of police officers, and for years i had to deal with wondering if my father was coming home from work that day. he had to deal with people everyday that did alot worse than gratuitously spin their tires to make someon look. so before you scream foul that the cops gave you a bad rap, look at the tv, and look what they did september 11th. that day was an example of what they do every day. sure, there are a few bad apples, but their numbers are far far far fewer than the real heroes of this country.
oh, and pkrwud, when you got busted those few times, and went to jail those few times, did you break the law, or was some cop being an ***$hole? |
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It's a cops job to serve the public interest, not harrass the public. If there are more important things to do than sit back and harrass the crap out of people, then they should be doing it. |
23 billion according to N.T.S.A., UNIT (a fitting moniker if ever I heard one). Speed releated accident implies that one or more vehicles involved in an accident were driving above the posted speed limit. For most people that would be self-explanatory. And for you to make the statement that traffic enforcement is strictly a "revenue maker" displays your ignorance of municipal budgetary process. The average traffic citation only generates 3-5% above the cost of issuance, which includes manpower, equipment, administration, court fees, and departmental rebates. This excludes state funded programs, such as "STEP". Municipal "revenue" comes from taxes, as any homeowner can attest. As I stated previously, the small town or municipality that does use traffic enforcement as a major revenue source is the exception, not the rule. These towns, as we all know are situated away from major metropolitan areas adjacent to interstates where motorists are "passing through" and are not expected to return to fight the citation. Their property is not valuable enough to generate sufficient revenue to support the municipality, so they must supplement with this unfortunate practice.
And of course robberies and thefts are important issues, as is any crime (um, like speeding? yes, that too). But guess what; if you report a theft, robbery, or burglary in your neighborhood, can you guess what the local police department will do, besides investigating whatever evidence is available? (tick tock tick tock tick tock...) That's right; increased traffic enforcement! One of the best deterrents of residential and business area crime is increased visibility, ergo, lights and sirens! But of course, just as you do not wish to attempt to convince me of your unsupported theories and conjecture, I will not try to convice you of supported facts. We all need someone to be pissed at. But remember, every kind of peaceful cooperation among men is primarily based on mutual trust and only secondarily on institutions such as courts of justice and police. Albert Einstein said that. You know; the rilly smart dude wit dat funny hair. |
COPS SUCK ***
Thats right cops suck ***. For those who are cops on this board. Next time you see a fellow cop being an *** to someone, remind him that his people skills is why you are hated. Try listening sometimes instead of using STREET JUSTICE with a ticket book or harsh words to the public. If you dont like being lumped in with the rest then dont lump us with the punks who are doing crimes.Doing the public justice by doing a good job ONE day does'nt mean the other 364 days you get a reprieve. If I do a bad job and treat people like crap I get the axe. Just remember you work for us.....
And everybody else the next time you hear ZERO TOLERANCE, vote against it. If this country keeps going the way they are zero tolerance will be imposed everywhere. Just remember what good for the goose........ |
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And...what other occupations are you aware of where you could be killed by your boss for little or no reason? |
Tickets and Reality, Part II
I decided to re-visit this thread, and I find the old 'good cops/bad cops' debate as interesting as ever. This subject comes up every few months here, mostly due to a lot of our members being receipents of traffic tickets, deserved or otherwise.
I offered my overview in an earlier post but wanted to comment on the more intense stuff posted, concerning bad cops and revenue enhancement. In my state, there was a big scandal a few years ago over traffic ticket fines that had exceeded $405. for a 20 mph-over speeding ticket! People were enraged and were clogging up the courts with 'Not Guilty' pleas, so the legislature dropped the fine to around $220. or so, maximum. The reason for the fine increase was simply to raise more money for the state. Of course, like raising cigarette taxes since cigarettes are unhealthy for you, the politicians can hide behind the fact that 'If you don't break the law, you have nothing to worry about' pose. Right. As noted by others, the State Troopers (at least in my state) are the most professional and courteous, even when giving you a ticket (I know this from experience). Local cops are usually so-so; the 'good ones' (not head-cases on a power trip) tend to get promoted to detective or at least Patrol Sargent, so, unfortunately, the public sees mostly the bottom-rung-level officers on the street. On the cop's side, it's a crappy job. Dangerous and dealing with scum, most of the time. If I were a cop, I'd consider traffic duty to be a joke, compared to chasing bad guys down an alley, breaking up bar fights and trying to intervene in often-dangerous 'domestic disturbances'. Despite the denials from some, I believe that traffic ticket revenue is a factor in some traffic law 'enforcement' as we've all seen the 'speed traps' and if you'll notice, most of these appear near the end of the month, when the always-denied 'quotas' are coming due. Let's face it; most roads have speed limits about 10 -15 mph below what is safe and reasonable and that's for a reason. On almost any local road in America, you can be charged with 'speeding', simply because you're doing a reasonable 35 mph on a road marked for 25, probably around World war II. The town and city authorities know this. It's a game. When the local police department wants to increase revenue or look like it's 'doing something' about 'speeders', usually due to citizen complaints or a few fatal accidents in a short time span, the radar comes out, the unmarked cars go into service and 'everybody' gets a ticket, it seems. Of course young people driving flashy, loud 'performance' cars are going to be noticed and singled out by the traffic police This has always been the norm. Drive a beige Honda Accord and you won't be noticed much, but drive a red, loud, Mustang or whatever (even a ricer) and you're probably a target, or at least you're going to be 'noticed'. That's unavoidable. Radar doesn't discriminate at all, although the officer can set the 'tolerance level' where he wants and can stop whomever he chooses. No avoiding the human factor. Finally, unmarked cars are B.S. Any one who drives knows that a clearly-marked patrol car sitting on the side of the road, visible to all, is going to slow people down for a mile in either direction. Guaranteed. When you go to an unmarked car to 'catch' speeders, it' may be quite legal, but it's a form of entrapment in the sense that everybody 'speeds' - goes 5 or 10 over the posted limit - and an unmarked car simply denies a otherwise reasonable driver the chance to slow down a tad and be 'legal', so he/she is now vulnerable to receiving a 'speeding' ticket. But, hey: "If you weren't breaking the law you wouldn't have had anything to worry about and noooo, there's no ticket quota in our town, no Sir. Just doing our job, Sir. Have a nice day, now." As I stated earlier; the cops have most of the power in these situations and the courts back them up 99% of the time. Understand your vulnerability to law enforcement when you're on the road and don't be shocked at a nasty, power-tripping cop harrassing you or getting a ticket for doing an 'illegal' burn-out in front of a cop. C'mon. If you were the cop, you might do the same. Often though, a calm, respectful approach to the cop can get you off, as most cops expect young guys (especially) to be snots, and when you treat them with respect (deserved or not...we're talking survival here) they'll cut you some slack. Worth trying and it's often worked for me. |
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Actually, the $23billion you quote can be manipulated to ridiculous levels since 99% of the time no police officer is on the scene clocking somebody while they cause an accident. It's a cops favorite little write up to cite speed at the scene of an accident. Know why, Professor? REVENUE. Not to mention the insurance companies love it too. That way they get to figure out who's at fault immediately, and charge more money. That's right, give me an R, E, V, E, N, U, E, what's the spell? FLAWED NUMBERS!! |
If you still think tickets are not a revenue source, might want to take a look at Phoenix, and their ticket happy stoplight camera's.
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NHTSA
Unit 5302:
You're quite correct, the NHTSA is a taxpayer-funded federal agency with it's own political agenda and it's mostly anti-automobile. No friend of Mustangers, believe me. This agency is famous for this kind of 3-card-Monte game when it comes to statistics, which - as we all know - can be easily manipulated to say whatever you want them to say. The numbers are bogus when analyzed. |
NHTSA
I too thought it was National Highway and Traffic Safety Administration, but the site I was directed to seemed to be only NTSA. Wonder what the deal is with that?
Regardless, the numbers just don't hold water. It's a lot like adding up hp gains from mods in the magazines, lol. |
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Don't want a ticket? Stop for the red lights. Take care, -Chris |
You didn't read the Phoenix report did you PKRWUD?
Phoenix dropped the yellow light time from 4sec to 3sec on the intersections where the red light cameras were installed. That made the lights shorter than any others, and citiations went through the roof. Upon hundreds of complaints, they changed it back. The company building the camera's McDonnell Douglas or Boeing (forgot which aerospace company) then threatened the city. The company was making a cut of the traffic tickets. The city agreed to install more of the red light cameras, donate a much greater portion to the manufacturer, and NOT change the delay from yellow to red. 100% pure revenue. As far as running red lights, I try not to. Sometimes it's hard to gauge perfect, and you're right in the middle of going or stopping. Pretty lame to get ticketed out the wazoo with no judgement call. |
No, I didn't read the Pheonix report, but I did hear all about the San Diego mess. I've read dozens of letters to the editor suggesting that the length of time a light remains a certain color have been modified to increase the amount of people breaking the law, but Ventura swears that has not happened here. From my experience, I believe them. One of the things I really like about driving in Ventura, is the way the traffic lights are timed. This was well thought out, and has remained largely unchanged throughout the years. Any driver that pays attention becomes aware of what color other lights will be when you get there, based on the one you're currently at. For example, I know that when the light going southbound on Victoria, at Telephone, turns green, I will not have to stop again, through 7 more traffic lights, until I exit the freeway in some other town, provided I maintain an average of 35 to 40 mph. This includes driving through 5 straight forward lights, and two right hand turn lights, the last of which is at the 101 Freeway southbound onramp. This gets even better. I know that when I leave my house, and the light at Thille St and Victoria turns green, allowing me to turn left onto northbound Victoria, I will make the next light, by the 126 freeway, regardless of how fast I drive, AND, if I maintain 70 mph on the freeway, I will encounter traffic entering the 101 freeway (after the 126 joins the 101) from Main Street, 4 miles away. If I drive over 75 on the freeway, between those two points, I pass the Main Street onramp just ahead of the traffic that is coming on from the light that just changed on Main Street. This is true throughout the city. I can tell you what color the lights will be at any freeway offramp in the city, based on when I get on the freeway, and the last green light I went through. The only time these vary is between 10pm and 6am, and on Sunday after 6pm. At these times, the lights change due to traffic that has tripped the signal via in-road weights/scales.
The point I'm getting to is that these things haven't changed since the cameras went in, and I think if they had, there would have been a difference. Also, the way Ventura worked things out, the company who builds and installs the cameras (some company in Australia) did them for free, but they get a high percentage (75-80) of the revenue that is generated for the first 5 years, and then they get a smaller percentage in the years following. They might even get 100% for the first 2 years, I really don't remember, but I do remember reading recently about how the revenue being generated was well below the anticipated amount. I do find that as I get older, I drive alot more responsibly. It get's boring sometimes, but I'm okay with it. I think that makes it much easier for me to stop for lights. I seem to remember it being alot tougher for me 10 years ago. :) Take care, -Chris |
Although I don't have a big issue with the camera's at intersections, I do have an issue with where we as a society are heading with cameras. Today we install cameras at intersections to alledgely curb running red lights, and tomorrow we'll be putting cameras where? In neighborhoods? Along side highways at various concealed points? Why don't 'they' just install a camera on top of your head just to make sure you're not breaking the law?
I have the same type of 'where does it end?' issue with zero tolerance. There was a story in the paper a couple weeks ago about a teenage girl that was 'caught' with one tylenol pill while at school. She was suspended for three days. I can't imagine what the punishment would have been if she had the whole bottle in her purse - Maybe 10 to 15 at San Quinten? Where does it end? How far will we go? E |
Law & Reality, continued
PKRWUD:
I agree that the 'stoplight camaras' can be useful to cut down red-light running and free up police for real crime investigation and prevention. I know a few people who were hurt (and my former boss was killed on the way to work one fine morning) after being involved in intersection accidents caused by 'red-light runners'. I have no strong objections when this technology is done fairly (timers remain constant) and it's well known that it exists. You see the problem: when some cities (this seems to vary) use the cameras to play games with the light timers and run up ticket revenue, it's simply an abuse of police and court power, in my opinion. I'm suspicious of any 'deal' that allows the manufacturer of the cameras to retain a 'cut' of the fines beyond what it may cost to pay for the cameras. Sounds like a scam hiding behind 'the law'. This kind of scamming by some greedy city authorities simply breaks down the respect for the law we must have to maintain an civil, livable society, so I object to it when implemented in this manner. Eric: You ask a good question: Where does it end? How far will we go? The short, simple answer is that it will end when we want it to end. We still live in a democracy, not a dictatorship. When we finally refuse to continue electing politicians who see this kind of thing as 'good for us', 'a safety issue' and that sure winner with the 'Soccer Mom's': 'For the Children'. It will 'go' as far as possible as technology increases and we, the citizens - who pay the taxes that keep the government running - go along with it. By the way; the 'Zero-Tolerance' (zero common sense I call it) anti-drug policy that makes Tylenol a 'drug' and interrupts a child's education and labels her a 'problem' for having one in her possession is driven - in part - by fears of lawsuits. If schools don't crack down on drugs in schools, when and if some druggie/nutcase kills someone, the victim's parents can sue the school district for not 'doing more' to protect the kids from drugs. Parents themselves partially bring on these asinine regulations with their fears. However, the school administrators use no sense at all in handing out punishments and a backlash is building against this kind of mindless 'zero-tolerance' stuff that call a Tums or a Tylenol 'drugs' and screws up a young, innocent kid's school record for nothing at all. Sometimes it takes this kind of over-reaching by authorities to wake up people to the abuses inherent in zero-tolerance and other originally well-meaning but effectively harsh and negative policies that hurt mostly innocent people, like a schoolgirl with a Mydol pill that they call a drug and punish her for simply having it in her purse, as if it was cocaine - or a gun. Liberal politicians want to micro-manage every aspect of our lives and do in far too many areas, including how much water can flow through your toilet bowl and your shower head. Every new regulation is always for some worthy cause (save water). The stoplight-camera issue (saving lives) is just another in a very long line of government intrusion into our lives under the cloak of 'helping us'. Yeah, right, Officer. In England, they do have cameras on the street, 'watching' everyone who walks by and monitored by police-types looking for illegal behavior. No joke. The justification is preventing crime, of course, and even our constitution doesn't give you privacy rights when walking down a public sidewalk so yes, it could happen here and probably will. Feel safer yet? As I said, this kind of Orwellian intrusion and control of our movements and our lives will only cease when the public, the taxpayers, the citizens say 'Enough!' Unfortunately, in this Soccer-Mom dominated society that gave us an immoral, lying, cheating clown like Bill Clinton as a President twice elected, I'm not holding my breath waiting for the early reversal of this trend. |
Jim-
I share your (and others) concerns. I too see the red light cameras as a potential doorway to more serious intrusions upon our freedoms. But right now, the way it's working here, the pros outweigh the cons, IMO. The cameras are still photograph cameras, not video cameras, and they only are activated when a vehicle enters the intersection after the light has turned red. If no one runs a red light, the camera isn't used. Ventura is going out of it's way to do this legally and fairly, thanks in part to the ordeal San Diego just finished going through, in which they were taken to court, and ordered to remove their cameras. This is walking the fine line in my mind, between being a good thing and being a bad thing. I have listened to and read arguements almost daily since the project began 18 months ago, and I'm still in favor of them. There is a very vocal opposition to them here, and if they do end up crossing the line into an invasion of privacy, the public would probably not have much trouble shutting them down. Hopefully it won't get to that point. Take care, -Chris |
Very good points about the Cams where will it stop.... is what one needs to ask.
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all right guys I have not been a member for long and I do not want to make any enemies as i need all the friends I can get.I do not know as much motor facts or tech. stuff as most of the members here but I do know cops.I have been a cop for 5 years and I patrol a very violent area.I will agree that there are some cops that give the honest ones a bad image but most are good people,at least in my area.I almost lost my license in my teens as I drove fast every time I could and paid many reckless driving tickets.I also hated cops as I blamed them for not allowing me to drive any way I wanted.I do not write many tickets and I always allow 20 mph over the limit before I will even stop a car.I know I will probably be flamed for saying but before anyone critisizes a cop they should walk in their shoes.I am a fairly decent cop and I have even allowed street racers to race while I watched on duty but it was in a safe environment and not a crowded street.Having said this I will say that I meet people everyday that hate me just because of the uniform and know nothing more of me.I have been shot at,stabbed,hit by a car,cursed at,spit on,and have to fight people,on a daily basis,that most would run from.I have held bloody children and pulled bodies from cars and yes even the best officers can be changed by these things but I hope it will not change me.I first changed my opinion of cops when I did a ride along with some local cops.I got a chance to see some of the crap they endured and the dangers they faced and this slowly changed my feelings.I do work with some guys that have a power trip are probably real cowards with out their uniform,but these guys are usually spotted pretty quick by their co-workers and are often avoided by honest police.I feel bad that some people live in towns where cops are too strict but there are ways to get along with cops.Try approaching cops more and just allow them in your conversations.They will probably like the fact that someone is talking to them with out being angry.Remember they are people also with the same problems and fears as many people have and usually enjoy being accepted.I get along well with most people but I do police work different than most cops.Anyway I hope that I have not offended any members as I will need much advice on my future stroker motor.If anyone needs any cop advice or other cop stuff just let me know.
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