[Mr 5 0]

Originally posted by RBatson

I'm going to try to keep this brief, I don't enjoy politics as you do, Jim.

False statement. First of all, at the time you made this statement the price was the highest it had ever been, it has dropped alittle since then(its still high). I find it amusing that you stated, months ago, that the high price of gas was a direct consequence of the higher oil prices and now you contradict that. It does not take months for the oil price to affect gas prices. It may take 2-4 weeks and sometimes it is immediate, retail stores charge what it will cost to replace inventory, not what it cost them originally. You are right that it depends on the gas suppliers and that is what I have a hard time understanding.

I'm not an expert on the machinations of the gas supply in America but I've read that the gas we put in our tanks today came from crude that was produced many months ago, but you could just as well be correct that it comes from crude purchased 2 - 4 weeks ago. I would like to hear from someone in the business with a more solid knowleged of the actual lag time. Until then, I'll be a gentleman and accept your timetable of 2 - 4 weeks. That point being stipulated, I have always maintained that the actual pump price of gasoline is affected by a number of factors, not simply the cost of crude on the world market. In my state (Connecticut) there is a 54-cent state tax plus the standard 18-cent federal tax on every gallon of gas sold. So, the gas I just paid $1.92 per gallon to put into my tank actually cost $1.20, which is quite reasonable and far less than our fathers paid, 30 or 40 years ago, adjusted for inflation. I also note that gas prices have fallen the past few months, as they oftenn do because - again - it's a cyclical market and always has been.

Spare me! BS!

I'm not saying they can completely replace oil but they can help conserve it and make us less dependent on oil. Now I'm not a hippy but I do think we could be a little more conservative and use our heads. Did you know that we could use the Earth's tilt to our advantage? You can build a home so that a tile floor gets sunlight, in the winter, and it helps keep your house warm. Your water heater can be warmed by the sun. You can get warmth by cutting a hole in the roof and placing a box with a glass lid, cut aluminum cans, paint the inside of the box black and place it over the hole (with a hole to match the roof). I found this stuff intriguing when I was a kid.

Rick, you're tilting at windmills here. (I couldn't resist).

Seriously, though, I can give you as many articles that clearly show windmil-power as energy-inefficient and not a realistic alternative as you can post pro-windmill pieces. I think the proof lies in the fact that they have not been used much, except as experimental efforts, and they are generally shown to be simply not feasible. One such article I read stated:

Wind power is a much dispersed power source. It gives a comparatively small amount of energy in relation to its volume. Energy has to be concentrated from a large surface. The force of the winds in the area must be just right; not too weak (or it does not produce enough) and not too strong (the wind mill shuts down). Therefore, those few areas that have winds that meet these conditions must be developed extensively. Even the windmills themselves are still not that efficient. A medieval windmill had an energy efficiency of 17 percent, while a modern one is barely 50 percent -- with some of percentage lost in the storage of energy.

If windmills were a feasible alternative - even a partial alternative - to what we have now, they would have begun to prove that by this late date. They haven't.

Of course we can always do more and find ways to conserve but I've seen studies that show conservation will only make a 10% impact - at best - in our energy demands. We are a very technically advanced nation of almost 300 millions people on a large landmass. We need a lot of energy. Solar, wind and so on is fine but nowhere close to a solution to our energy demand realities.

People like me?!? You mean people with gasoline engines?? What a politian you are, Jim, now you are making me out to be the bad guy. We don't have to be so dependent on oil to start with...

I'm not familiar with ANWAR because I'm not an activist but I'm sure I can find other examples besides what you are talking about. What makes the oil companies any better than anyone else?? The Caribou don't own the land so why ask them?? I'm not going to go looking this stuff up but I'm sure it is a national reserve for a reason.

'ANWAR' is supposed to be an enviromental paradise, according to the tree-hugger crowd, but it's basically a barren no-mans-land, hardly inhabited. Modern oil-drilling techniques would hardly disturb the place and no one would notice if they did. Not even the suddenly-sacred Caribou. The whole silly flap is just a power-play by the environmentalist whackos who want to pretend it's still 1704 and keep America 'pristine'. These are the folks who fight logging interests and won't allow roads to be built in forests. Then, when a fire breaks out, firetrucks have no way to get to the scene. They won't allow underbrush to be cut, then the brush dries out and huge fires ensue. They call a man's backyard with a puddle in it a 'wetland' and get laws passed that forbid the property owner from reconfiguring his back yard property to a level stste so he might actually use it. Those folks.

I still don't think Bush is the best man for the job. I don't dislike him but he does things I don't agree with like recently changing overtime laws.. going backwards in my opinion, work more pay less. I don't like the 3 yr work permit for illegal aliens. At the same time I don't like what Clinton did with NAFTA. Anyhow, you are going to have to find someone else to play this game with, I just hate to see all that political propaganda go unchecked. I try not to offend you and its getting harder and harder to do so I'll stop now while we can still talk.

President Bush has liberated two countries, thwarted the Islamic terrorist organizations and delivered on his tax cut promise...and a lot more. He deserves re-election.

As for finding it 'hard' to be civil with me: I'm an opinionated guy, as you should know. I'm also civil with those who post civilly to me, as you have, making our exchange fairly enjoyable, for me. In politics, I know what I believe and why. If you don't want to be rebutted, don't post. If you do post to refute some of my contentions, which is fine, do expect an argument when one is warranted. Whatever you do, don't post and then complain if I respond with a challenge of your opinion. The exchange of ideas and opinions is what this board is about, Rick. I'm glad to have been able to share a few of mine with you, and vice versa.