The Pledge of Allegiance!! (God or No) (A little long...Sorry)

[mustanggt350]

I have been watching to news about this man that wants the word God taken out of the Pledge of Allegiance. I am not a religous person!! But I do believe that this is a free country and the right of religion is a big part of the freedom. What are we supposed to say instead, "insert your creature here?" I grew up in a small town with very small town values, and we said the pledge of allegiance every morning, at every assembly, and played the anthem before every game. I don't think the pledge of allegiance should be changed so that someone can feel politically correct!! If you don't like it, don't say it or walk out of the room. After all it is a FREE COUNTRY!! Here is a little story a friend sent me.

From a speech made by Capt. John S. McCain, US, (Ret) who represents Arizona in the U.S. Senate:

As you may know, I spent five and one half years as a prisoner of war during the Vietnam War. In the early years of our imprisonment, the NVA kept us in solitary confinement or two or three to a cell. In 1971 the NVA moved us from these conditions of isolation into large rooms with as many as 30 to 40 men to a room. This was, as you can imagine, a wonderful change and was a direct result of the efforts of millions of Americans on behalf of a few hundred POWs 10,000 miles from home.

One of the men who moved into my room was a young man named Mike Christian. Mike came from a small town near Selma, Alabama. He didn't wear a pair of shoes until he was 13 years old. At 17, he enlisted in the US Navy. He later earned a commission by going to Officer Training School. Then he became a
Naval Flight Officer and was shot down and captured in 1967. Mike had a keen and deep appreciation of the opportunities this country and our military provide for people who want to work and want to succeed.

As part of the change in treatment, the Vietnamese allowed some prisoners to receive packages from home. In some of these packages were handkerchiefs, scarves and other items of clothing. Mike got himself a bamboo needle. Over a period of a couple of months, he created an American flag and sewed on the
inside of his shirt. Every afternoon, before we had a bowl of soup, we would hang Mike's shirt on the wall of the cell and say the Pledge of Allegiance. I know the Pledge of Allegiance may not seem the most important part of our day now, but I can assure you that in that stark cell it was indeed the most important and meaningful event.

One day the Vietnamese searched our cell, as they did periodically, and discovered Mike's shirt with the flag sewn inside, and removed it. That evening they returned, opened the door of the cell, and for the benefit of all of us, beat Mike Christian severely for the next couple of hours. Then, they opened the door of the cell and threw him in. We cleaned him up as well as we could.

The cell in which we lived had a concrete slab in the middle on which we slept. Four naked light bulbs hung in each corner of the room. As I said, we tried to clean up Mike as well as we could. After the excitement died down, I looked in the corner of the room, and sitting there beneath that dim light bulb with a piece of red cloth, another shirt and his bamboo needle, was my friend, Mike Christian. He was sitting there with his eyes almost
shut from the beating he had received, making another American flag.

He was not making the flag because it made Mike Christian feel better. He was making that flag because he knew how important it was to us to be able to Pledge our allegiance to our flag and country. So the next time you say the Pledge of Allegiance, you must never forget the sacrifice and courage that thousands of Americans have made to build our nation and promote freedom around the world. You must remember our duty, our honor, and our country.

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America
and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God,
indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

[PKRWUD]

As tempting as it is, I'm not going to enter this debate.

Take care,
-Chris

[The Deuce]

It pains me to hear that people are fighting to remove 'under God' from our pledge of allegiance. I personally am a God fearing man, and while it is often forgotten, this country was founded by people seeking religious freedom. I know that religion is used (and misused) by people looking for power and answers, and that troubles me as well.

I applaud the man's commitment to his beliefs, as it takes a lot of faith to believe that we are all there is. However, part of his argument is that he wishes to not have others beliefs imposed on his children, and thereby impose his beiliefs on our country. This is an issue with which have trouble.

American government is majority rule with minority protection. There is no reason that anyone should be forced to say the phrase 'under God' if they chose to abstain, that is their right. It should be an option as the majority of people in our country aknowledge at least some higher power.

I will also close with a small antecdote:

The 1936 summer olympics were held in Berlin Germany. As the participating countries marched through the stadium for opening cermonies, they would dip their flags in reverence to Hitler as they passed his booth. The American team marched by, flag held high in defiance. When asked about the apparent act of defiance, the flag bearer responed, "This flag bows to no
earthly king."

Before the end of that decade, Europe was in full war with Germany, and inside 10 years the atrocities of the third reich were exposed. America was the only country whose flag flew high and proud during all the ceremonies and never honored one of the most infamous men in history.

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America
and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God , indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

[joe4speed]

I'm getting tired of politically correct people!!! GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!

[PKRWUD]

Joe, four words: Take a bonghit, dude.



Take care,
-Chris

[Mr 5 0]

First, a few facts:

The California ruling simply stated that the words 'Under God' cannot be included in the teacher-led Pledge of Allegiance recited by the children before class.

The man (an atheist) who brought the lawsuit already had his daughter opt out of saying the Pledge (her constitutional right) but the father objected that she was 'harmed' and her 'rights' were violated by simply having to hear the words 'Under God' spoken aloud in class by her classmates.

The looney left strike again, folks.

Unfortunately, past U.S. Supreme Court decisions have led to this one by the often-overturned Ninth District federal court, including the 1962 decision that outlawed public prayer in taxpayer supported schools. This new ruling was inevitable.

My opposition isn't so much to this specific ruling as it is to the absurd idea that we all must become atheists while standing on the grounds of a public school . This turns the 'Freedom of religion' clause of the constitution on it's head.

I thought the Supreme Court's ruling forbidding valedictorians from invoking God during commencement addresses, or football players saying prayers in the locker room before a game was wrong. These actions (the students exercising their First Amendment rights) did not breach the unholy firewall of Church and State that is always bandied about in these debates.

I don't buy the idea that this makes it a 'religious exercise' in any way, but as it refers to a Deity, albeit a generic one ('God' has many meanings for many people) the court stated that the words 'under God' (which endorse a religious belief in theism) can't be in the pledge as led by the teacher (an agent of 'the state'). Hmmmm. Why not?

Unfortunately, the Pledge of Allegiance is a teacher-led recitation and with the 'Under God' phrase included it becomes problematic because the leftists have used our constitution to thwart most Americans from an honest expression of patriotism and/or simple faith in the creator that our forefathers mentioned many times in the Bill of Rights - should they be standing in a classroom - and their very words possibly 'offend' one person.

It's PC gone crazy and at least it's now obvious to all.

It's a mess but at least it generated a nice display of public anger (and politician's grandstanding) over the left's steady push to make expression of faith near-illegal on the public square, as it were. Basically, this decision just goes too far for most Americans to swallow. About time.

The Pledge of Allegiance may be a 'state'-led exercise of patriotism in schools but who really objects to having their child honor their country? Not me.

The inclusion of the words "under God' simply reflect and acknowledge that this country was founded on Christian principles - and too bad if atheists don't like it, it's a fact.

Read the Federalist Papers or any bio of the founding Fathers like Hamilton, Jefferson or Franklin. Some were Deists and some were devout Christians but all were God fearing to some degree. They prayed during the debates over the constitution and most attended church. These are facts. America was a country founded on a religious base, although the founders were careful to not make religion any sort of legal necessity for citizenship and gave us freedom of religion - or no religion at all if we choose.

The Pledge is optional; no child has to recite it if they or a parent opt not to do so. For an atheist parent to object to their child simply hearing the words 'Under God' as a rights violation is absurd and shows how far out the looney leftists have brought us.

Unfortunately, when you have years of previous Supreme Court rulings that have banned 'God' from schools in one way or another, this kind of nit-picking outrage was bound to happen.

Now, I hope the Supreme Court will take the case, overturn the stupid ruling and clean up the mess it's made.

Meanwhile, we're all free to recite the Pledge of Allegiance, 'Under God' and all. I know that this Fourth of July, many will, proudly and loudly and I'll be one of them.

[srv1]

Originally posted by PKRWUD
As tempting as it is, I'm not going to enter this debate.

Take care,
-Chris

hmmmm......... maybe i should stay out of this one too. Chris, you get Joe and and we will get together and pull some tubes?

[PKRWUD]

Originally posted by srv1


Chris, you get Joe and and we will get together and pull some tubes?

???

[srv1]

Originally posted by PKRWUD


???

"pull some tubes" a.k.a. hitting the bong! maybe it is an east coast saying?!

[mustangII460]

I Pledge,

Two option for those who dont......

1st............ Dont pledge.

2nd........... Until you kick my azz, don't try to stop me.

Signed,

Disabled Veteran.

[joe4speed]

Originally posted by PKRWUD
Joe, four words: Take a bonghit, dude.



Take care,
-Chris

hehehehhe ahhhh much better now....

I changed the brakes on the olds today, so that was a good distraction to everyday mierta.
Pain in the *** that car is though. GM just has to use weird bolts on everything to make it tough on me.

[MidNiteBlu 5.0]

Again Mr. 5.0 i agree with what you said. I dont see how the minority is now ruling over the majority just so everything can be "politically correct". I think it is a bunch of BS. As homer simpson would say... "you dont like it go to Russia"

Later,
Nick

[Crazy Horse GT]

sorry if you dont agree, it's your right & i paid the price for your free speech for 12 year's, that is such b.s. clintonism still live's today, now you know why i HATE, the u.s. govnmt, they rule over everything we do, or say, i'm sick of it. i will say i beleive in god if i want to, i earned that right, i say a prayer for everyone i know who is hurting, having problem's etc, so are they going to shoot me, so be it, the word's from mettallica mean a lot to me, -- dont tread on me, sorry for the vent, america- either land of the strong, or the land of crybaby's, i wish i were in spain, guess im booted of mw now, heheh.

[PKRWUD]

Originally posted by srv1


"pull some tubes" a.k.a. hitting the bong! maybe it is an east coast saying?!

Ahhhhhhh. I see. That one is new to me, but it has been a few years since I did that anyway, so I'm sure there is a whole new vocabulary to be learned. Still, I'd much rather hang w/ you and Joe than add my two cents to this thread. Where you guys gonna be?



Take care,
-Chris

[mustanggt350]

Originally posted by Crazy Horse GT
the word's from mettallica mean a lot to me, -- dont tread on me, sorry for the vent, america- either land of the strong, or the land of crybaby's, i wish i were in spain, guess im booted of mw now, heheh.

No Marty, I totally understand what you are saying; I think it is the same thing we are all trying to say in our own way!!
We live in a Free Country and that is the way it should be Free. Stop wining about yourself and start helping people around you. We have gotten into a mindset in America that political correctness is OK. I personally believe that everyone has the right to say and do what he or she feel like as long as it does not mentally or physically hurt another living being. There is no perfect world out there and god knows the US is not perfect by any means. All I ever ask of my friends and family is be the best person that you can be, treat other as you would want to be treated, and don't judge, everyone has their reasons for being the way they are. I just opened another can of worms (Man I'm good at that!!), now I'm kicked out!!

Shelby

[Crazy Horse GT]

shelby im not whining about my self, im just sick of these oh, im traumitized american's who think it's their right to take away everybody else's right, because they dont agree, that's it i dont care what anyone think's or has feeling's about but dont force it on me, that's all im saying, dont make it a law.

[mustanggt350]

Originally posted by Crazy Horse GT
shelby im not whining about my self, im just sick of these oh, im traumitized american's who think it's their right to take away everybody else's right, because they dont agree, that's it i dont care what anyone think's or has feeling's about but dont force it on me, that's all im saying, dont make it a law.

Exactly!!! That is what I meant!! I didn't mean for you to take that I was calling you a winer!! No, No, No, I was talking about they politically correct people!! Not you, I agree with you whole heartedly!! 100% Right on Marty!!!

[Crazy Horse GT]

Originally posted by mustanggt350


Exactly!!! That is what I meant!! I didn't mean for you to take that I was calling you a winer!! No, No, No, I was talking about they politically correct people!! Not you, I agree with you whole heartedly!! 100% Right on Marty!!!

ok maybe i took it wrong, but your right, i mean everyone, well not everyone, think's this country owes them, no they owe this country, if daddy's little girl doesnt want to say god then she should just shut up, clintonism at it's best, sorry if i came off as a di-- but whining american's make me sick, if they dont like it here move to bosnia, hahahaha, cya

NO ONE I MEAN NO ONE WILL STOP ME FROM SAYING GOD. Whenever I so please, its time to stop all this S*** and live our lives the way we want to not the way some person wants us too. Everyone has there own opion, and thats the way it should be. Odie

[Dark_5.0]

As unpopular as this is gonna be I am gonna say it.

There is seperation of church and state for a reason. If you let church and state intermingle before you know it 10% will be garnished from your paycheck.

If you dont like government mandated laws. There are religious schools you can send your kids to. Religion and public schools isnt practical in america our country is to diverse.

There are plenty of private schools that offer religion as part of the package. Thats the beauty of america there is always a choice.

Later,