ENRON: Got what they deserved.

[PKRWUD]

While I feel very sorry for the employees of ENRON who got screwed by their employer, I have no such feelings for the company itself.

They were one of the main companies that raped California last year by charging 700% more than they paid for energy that was created in California and then resold there. Even the Federal Government ruled that what they were doing was unfair. They were also among the main financial contributors to the proposition that was passed trying to deregulate the electric companies here, which eventually paved the way for their tactics.

I admit, we Californians made the mistake of believing them when we passed that proposition, but we were just trying to do what we believed was best for everyone. No other states had tried it yet, so we didn't have any other examples to go by. At the time, California ranked 49th in energy use per capita, which means 48 other states used more energy per person, than did California, yet we got stuck paying the most for it. The worst part was that the energy they were selling us originated right here, in California. We ended up conserving even more, and didn't have to deal with a single blackout all summer, but the fear was there.

In any case, their demise seems a fitting end to the story.

Thanks for letting me share.

Take care,
-Chris

[Mr 5 0]

Chris:

While I know little about the workings of Enron what I do know (as a firm believer in capitalism and a free market) is that this kind of dirty-dealing corporation makes all big business look bad. The kind of naked avarice demonstrated by the executives of Enron is what gives socialist politicians (like your current Governor) fodder to regulate and further restrict (and tax) the businesses that make this country thrive beyond any other on earth.

Capitalism is the engine that drives democracy and when a bunch of crooks and politicians (sorry, being redundant) conspire to screw taxpayers and the buying public it does much harm all around and should be throughly punished. There should be no reward for corporate wrong-doing. Some highly paid Enron (and Arthur Anderson) executives should go to jail - but don't hold your breath.

I'm not familiar with the California energy deregulation proposition that was passed (or the politics that surrounded it) but it was obviously not a good idea and should be rescinded, if possible.


Your rant was well taken and although most of us non-California folks won't get much from it due to a lack of knowledge about the specifics, I like the fact that you thought it worth posting here.

Thanks.

[fixer]

Originally posted by Mr 5 0
Chris:

While I know little about the workings of Enron what I do know (as a firm believer in capitalism and a free market) is that this kind of dirty-dealing corporation makes all big business look bad.

I agree. Ford didn't stay in business for 100 or so years by cooking books.

[Dark_5.0]

PKRWUD Energy cost more in California for a reason and it has nothing to do with per capita energy use.....I made a business trip to California in November and talked to some of the oil companies around Huntington beach, Bakersfield and Beverly hills (yes there is even oilfield in Beverly Hills) I was amazed....It cost alot more money to do busines in California then in Texas were I live. Oil producers dont make jack in California per barrel of oil cause of the strict environmental shackels placed on them. Oil has to be above 13$ per barrel before some of them break even in California. Wich is passed along to the californian consumer.

Ok heres the deal since Californians gets price gauged localy.....everyone bends over California it is an oilfield tradition.
My company where I work charges 10% more for products sent to California because they gladly pay it and they are used to grabbing there ankles.

We do over 2,000,000 dollars of business in California per year......Another problem is there are alot of middle men in California before our product reaches the end user it has been marked up several times on top of our 10%.

In case your wondering what we do where I work we put a special polyethylene liner in down hole oilfield tubing.

Its not just Enron every oil producer and oilfield vendor screws California its that way by design.....Dumb California laws
(liberals ) are the reason for your complaints.

California does not like oilfield in thier state thats why they make it so hard to conduct business.

California makes no since they tax oil to the point that marginal wells make no money at all and all the independents went out of business now they are PAYING in more way than one.

Its only gonna get worse the more independents that get ran out of busines the more and more Californians will pay.

I THINK CALIFORNIA IS GETTING WHAT THEY DESERVE.

[Mr 5 0]

Dark_5.0:

Thanks for the clarification regarding California energy policies.

I'm aware that CA state government is dominated by enviromental whackos who believe in fantasies such as windmill power and have stopped the building of power plants for a decade or more; then they regulate, tax and harrass energy-producing companies and blame them when the price goes up and/or shortages develop.

Typical liberal politicians who blather about how much they looooooove the 'little guy' and then go tax him to death and screw around with vital resources that end up costing him more - while they blame everyone but themselves.

Gov. Davis is a loon (in my opinion) and CA is getting a well-deserved reputation as a unfriendly state for business and most anyone else. Mild climates don't mean much when you can't afford to live there, not to mention the out-of-control Mexican illegal immigration problem that is slowly but surely reclaiming CA as a Mexican province through osmosis.

Enron management lied to investors and the public.
They tried hard to manipulate politicians (with some success in the Clinton administration) and they screwed the public, employees and investors all the way around. Not the first big corporation to do this, nor will they be the last, but the blatant financial deceptions Kenneth Lay and the upper management of Enron engaged in needs to be punished as an example to other CEO's who think it might be 'worth it' to play this game. After all, Lay came out of the collapse with millions.

I suspect Enron officials may not be going to jail any time soon as many of the things they did violated SEC rules, not criminal law. However, since the spotlight on on them now, they may be held accountable in some way; at least financially.

I don't get upset when a corporation's investors lose money and employees lose jobs due to corporate mismanagement, as Enron did, as this is common in the business world. Investing is risky and you have to know when to pull out - or not.
Not every business succeeds all the time and some huge corporations have folded over the years. It happens.

I do get upset when said corporation manipulates and lies about it's true financial stste and it's 'independent' auditors are accomplices in the fraud on the public and the investors, as well as the employees who would have bailed out both their 401(k) Enron stocks as well as the company itself had they known the truth, which Kenneth Lay and Enron management made certain they did not.

As I stated in a prior post; Enron may or may not have screwed California citizens but they screwed a lot of others - especially investors - and although they may or may not have committed criminally actionable fraud, Lay and the senior Enron management team that knew and aided the fraud (along with Arthur Anderson executives who went along with it) should be prosecuted wherever possible and the huge profits some of these guys walked off with should be eaten up in fines and other financial sanctions via the SEC, IRS, etc.

Corporate wrongdoing, criminal or otherwise, should not be rewarded. The stock market is vital to our economy and this kind of fraud by a corporation (although not a major one in terms of size or number of employees) should be punished and held up as a bad example of executive mismanagement gone into the abyss of criminal fraud in pursuit of profit.

I'm a capitalist and a true believer in the capitalist system, despite abberations such as Enron. Marxism doesn't make it for me and socialist governments always collapse from their own weight but the capitalist game has to played with at least a modicum of fairness and honesty.
Politicians will always be part-time lackeys of big corporations as well as labor unions and other 'special interests'. Everyone has a 'special interest'. Fine. We'll survive, but when corporations engage in outright fraud, the whole system begins to wobble a bit, as investors - current and future - can no longer trust corporate reports, P&L sheets, etc and will hesitate to invest at all. Bad news.

It's (in part) the success of big corporations that employ hundreds of thousands of people that keep the economy growing, which benefits us all.
Debacles like the one at Enron hurt people and shake confidence in business. This is why I give a rap about the demise of a company I hardly knew about before a few weeks ago and why I hope the top executives at Enron don't wiggle out of this mess with a slap on the wrist.

Remains to be seen but meanwhile, let's hope CA gets it's energy policies back in the real world and stops playing political games with vital resources just to fulfill some enviromental Shangri-La fantasies held dear by liberal politicians and 'enviromental activists' who produce no energy at all, not counting their windy diatribes about 'saving' the earth, while citizens watch the lights go out and the electric bills climb. Get real, California.

[89 Cobra LX]

Enron formed when a mid-sized Texas energy company merged with a mid-sized Nebraska energy company (located in Omaha) in the 80s.

Omaha bent over backwards to get the new company (Enron) to keep it's operating center in Omaha. The CEO of the company strung the city along while the company finalized details with Houston to be the company headquarters. This happens a lot, but the way Mr. Lay handled the whole deal was very ugly.

Looking back now, it's probably for the best that Enron moved to Texas. Omaha probably couldn't handle a company of that size going down the tubes. Not to mention the black-eye Omaha would have gotten over this. Unfortunately many lives were effected in Omaha due to the ties some still have with the company.

[PKRWUD]

Originally posted by Dark_5.0
PKRWUD Energy cost more in California for a reason and it has nothing to do with per capita energy use.....

I know. That's what I was saying. I just find it amusing that there is only one other state that conserves more than we do, yet we still pay (paid) the most.

Originally posted by Dark_5.0
Ok heres the deal since Californians gets price gauged localy.....everyone bends over California it is an oilfield tradition.
My company where I work charges 10% more for products sent to California because they gladly pay it and they are used to grabbing there ankles.

I THINK CALIFORNIA IS GETTING WHAT THEY DESERVE.

And the fact that we do allow such lame practices to exist is our fault, and for that we do deserve whatever happens. I firmly believe in taking responsibility.

As far as oilfield work here, oil is the number one source of income for Ventura County, followed by produce. This town in particular was built on oil fields, and still outproduces most other states. We love oil. It keeps bread on our tables. Where we got screwed was with the deregulation of the electric companies.

I completely agree with Jim's feelings towards Davis, and look forward to his replacement next year. He managed to secure our well lit future, but at a cost. he has it set up so that we now have several times more electricity than we could possibly use, but, because of the "deal" he made to get it, we are paying more for it than we can sell it for. We are still many times better off than we were last Spring, but a 5th grader could do better business than Davis does.

As far as us (Californian's) getting "bent over" by everyone, I guess it's a matter of perspective. I've lived all over this country, and in fact, the world. There are only 8 states that I have not visited. That being said, there is no other place on earth I would rather live, and if that means a higher cost of living, so be it. I wouldn't live in Texas if the cost of living were half of what it is now. In my eyes, you're the one getting screwed.

Take care,
-Chris

[MidNiteBlu 5.0]

I agree with PKRWUD. I am only 17 and have lived in san diego and in Virginia. I wouldnt go back to Virginia even though there prices and gas etc. are better. No offense to MustangBelle or whoever else lives there. I would write more but i gotta sleep lol. Midterms tommorow

[Dark_5.0]

Come on man dont crap on my home town.......I wasnt bad mouthing caliorfnians just there liberal ways.

I visited Venice beach, L.A. Bakersfield and ventura county I went all over California in one week I seen alot of cool stuff and enjoyed the scenery

It was my first time seeing mountians in person it was cool, and my first time touching the ocean.

It was wierd seeing pumpjacks right there on the beach at Huntington beach.

California was cool but man the traffic in L.A. drove me crazy!

[Mr 5 0]

Dark_5.0:

Hey, California is a beautiful and fascinating state with a wide range of geography; from oceans with beautiful beaches to mountains with great sking and of course, the history and heritage of San Francisco and the glitz of Hollywood as well as the diverse rural areas.

The overall weather, especially in places like San Diego, is almost unmatched anywhere for sheer perfection. You can drive down the Pacific Coast Highway in your 'Stang and enjoy some of the most breathtaking scenery in the world while crusing.

You can pull up to a light in Los Angeles and see a new, $300,000. Ferrari sitting next to you (don't bother racing him) or on the next block, see a perfect 1955 T-Bird out cruising down Sunset Blvd. It's all there. Movie stars, too.


My beef with California is the destructive liberal politics that dominate the state and cause a lot of foolish things to happen that shouldn't, such as the last year's energy crisis.

California has a lot of problems and some are self-imposed by liberal political policies based on a demonstratively flawed political orthodoxy.
That California citizens keep voting for politicians that endorse harmful public policies is very frustrating to an observer and makes me lose a lot of sympathy for Californians who appear to favor socialism and liberal/socialist politicians.

Then, when the policies these politicians pushed or endorsed come to grief, they cry and moan and blame big business, then they look to Washington, seeking taxpayer money to bail them out and 'fix' the problem - and have the nerve to get indignant when the President says 'no'.

This was the scenario last summer when Governer Grey Davis cried that President Bush needed to 'get the federal government involved' with the energy crisis then unfolding in California.
Bush sympathized but basically said, "You created it, you fix it" as he should have.

This kind of whining, misguided nanny-state liberal government is what's hurting the great state of California and if that's what the majority of California citizens choose, then let them deal with the negative consequences.


By the way: My state (Connecticut) is no prize either (very liberal) but we're so small that we have little impact on the rest of the country whereas California often does have an impact on other parts of the country by virtue of it's size, population and diverse economy.

California is a great state but it's turning into a semi-socialist political wasteland with resource problems and huge immigration problems, too.
That's sad - and unnecessary - and I lament the fact that this is the direction it's citizens choose to take.
Can't change it, just hate to see it.

[PKRWUD]

Hehe, driving in L.A. when you're used to Odessa, Texas, can be a bit frustrating. I learned how to drive on the L.A. freeways, so it's old school to me. Up here in Ventura, you never have to wait for a light to change twice, and can get from any point in town to any other point in town in 15 minutes or less. If you thought L.A. was bad, try driving on the N.J. turnpike, or down the coast from N.Y. to N.C.! Driving in and around Washington D.C. makes L.A. seem like a vacation. I have never been anyplace on earth that had the versitility of California. Within 2 hours max from my front door, I can go skiing in 8000'+ mountians or hiking on one of the Channel Islands. The desert, mountains and the beaches are all close by. I can get to anything L.A. or Santa Barbara has to offer in an hour, yet I don't have to live there. Ojai, 15 minutes from me, is where Skyman lives. It is one of the coolest places on earth. Try telling that to someone who has lived there their whole life, and they won't believe you, until they move away. Next time you're out this way, let me know. I'll show you why Ventura is my home. I wasn't putting down your home town. I'm sure it's wonderful. It's just that having lived here, I have become spoiled by everything it has to offer. I could never be happy living without a beach or the mountians near by.

Take care,
-Chris

I don't agree with the majority of the liberal standards we live with here, but it's so worth it, I don't really mind. Besides, the next Governor will be a Republican.

[PKRWUD]

Jim-
There are quite a few rational thinking people here too, and I guess I do resent being classified all together with the boneheads that seem to get elected, but again, to me it's worth it. That doesn't mean I don't object to policies I feel are unfair, but we are outnumbered. California has a huge cultural and artistic draw, and 70% of those that follow that draw and end up here tend to be very liberal thinkers. That, and the fact that Hollywood is so liberal, don't help those of us with more rational mindsets come the first Tuesday in November. It amazes me how many people will vote for something just because the star of their favorite sitcom said to. In any case, don't blame us as a whole, because we are not all entirely guilty. I am guilty of being very happy where I live. I am fortunate in that I can live where ever I choose. I am highly skilled in a profession that has job openings in every town in America. I could leave, and I suppose someday I might, but I hope it never gets to that point.

Take care,
-Chris

[Mr 5 0]

Chris:

I understand what you're saying because I have the same situation in my home state of Connecticut.

I love the state; pure New England with the wealth and beauty of Greenwich, Westport, Darian, etc, the history of Hartford (longtime home of Mark Twain) and our own pretty (but somewhat rocky) beaches and our beautiful rolling hills. I can be in Boston or Manhattan within two hours and I'm a short plane hop away from Washington, D.C. Canada is a days drive. I've been to all of these places many times, especially New York City.

Connecticut is a neat place to live if you prefer four very distinct seasons and the New England ambiance, as I obviously do.

Unfortunately, along with the beauty and history of CT come the brain-dead liberal politics that drive me nuts. The strong influence of 'New Yawkers' coming into CT as well as the ultra-liberal Boston/Harvard influence is a big part of it. All the little New York and New Jersey yuppies want a chic address in Greenwich, Westport, Darian, etc and they bring their liberal politics with them, eventually electing enough liberal Democrats to dominate the state legislature. We do have a nominal Republican governor but he's a 'liberal' Republican, which means he does what a Democrat would do (raise taxes and impose stupid laws and regulations) but he does it slower and feels really bad about it.

Our Senators are both ultra-liberal Democrats; Christopher ('Commie-wannabe') Dodd (who never met a South American commie dictator he didn't like) and 'Cryin' Joe Lieberman, another leftist that you may recall as Al Gore's VP running mate in the 2000 election. Lieberman makes a big show about agonizing over voting for liberal bills, then votes for them anyway, always lamenting - in his whiny voice - how hard it was for him to vote for the tax increase or whatever. Hypocrite.

So I'm in your boat, as it were.
I can't stand these liberal politicians and the way they tax and spend us to death and promote harmful social policies. Our CT gas tax (just for the state - not federal) is 25 cents per gallon! Only 5 cents less than you shell out in CA. Until 2000, it was 31 cents! I should be thankful for small favors, I guess.

That said; I still love my state and have no plans to move but as I often say to friends, I hate Connecticut politics. It's frustrating and I know you don't buy into California liberalism any more than I do the Connecticut variety but it's tough to be on either coast where politics is concerned.

[MidNiteBlu 5.0]

I agree that there are way too many liberals in California but i still dont believe that the power shortage was ALL Californias fault. Of course Gray Davis's liberal poilitics played a large role in it but I think Enron could be part of the blame. Im interested to see whats going to happen if they find that the Republican party is involved with it Fortuanately San Diego is mostly a military town and there arent many super liberals here. There are a few though like Bruce Henderson who brings up every little environmental issue he can to prevent the building of a new ballpark downtown which would be a huge economic increase for the area that is full of abandoned warehouses right now I love it here. I love the access to the beach, the desert and the mountains. Plus especially in San Diego the weather is awesome. Its 62 degrees with no clouds in the sky right now at 4:30. And of course California has the higher gas prices which actually have been going down lately and San Diego is starting to have ridiculous costs of living but hopefully i will be able to make it when i move out. Anyways thats enough out of me.

Later,
Nick

[PKRWUD]

Originally posted by Mr 5 0
Chris:We do have a nominal Republican governor but he's a 'liberal' Republican, which means he does what a Democrat would do (raise taxes and impose stupid laws and regulations) but he does it slower and feels really bad about it.

ROFLMAO!!!!

Thanks. I haven't laughed that hard unexpectedly in a very long time.

Jim, I try and see beauty everywhere I go. My Grandmother used to tell me how important that was, and she was right. When pressed, I can find something nice to say about any place I've ever been. That doesn't necessarily mean that those are my prominent feelings or memories of said place, but at least I noticed. Well, when I think of New England, my most prominent thought is of the unGodly humidity and mosquitoes found on a hot summer night. After that, though, they are all good thoughts. Genuine, good memories. I do miss the leaves changing colors. There is no place I have ever been that rivaled the show God puts on in New England every autumn. I also love the architecture! The homes and churches there are works of art. The history is rich and full, and very important as well. The town I lived in while in New Jersey turned 300 years old in 1982. Ventura, where I currently live, is not much more than 125 years old. It also has a rich history, but of a very different nature. My father's church in N.J. was built in 1876. There were dozens upon dozens of other houses and buildings as old, if not older there. This town was founded around 1876, and I only know of one structure in town that was here then. Such a structure is so unusual here that they made it a historical monument. It's called the Olivas Adobe, and was nothing more than a run down boarding house for farm workers during the late 1800's. I can just hear the tourists now:

Oooh, pinch me. I must be dreaming. Look at that fascinating boarding house where people stunk for days on end!

There is so much interesting history here, though, but most of it occurred in the last 150 years. Still, New England will always hold a special place in my heart. Did I ever tell you that I used to spend a few weeks every summer on Cape Cod? Right up until I was 11, and we moved west. Those dunes were the best, and it was there that my love for lighthouses started.

I don't have any trouble at all understanding why you live where you do, Jim. Why can't these dam liberal politicians get excited over Wyoming or North Dakota? Why do they have to screw with our little gems? Oh well. We may both go down fighting them, but at least we'll have had smiles in our hearts.

Take care,
-Chris

[1BAD89]

Former executive of Enron killed himself in his car today.

[PKRWUD]

I just heard on the news that now they think someone killed him.

Take care,
-Chris

[Mr 5 0]

Whenever you have a big public scandal of any kind - especially where politics and big money are involved, as with Enron - and a major player ends up dead as a result of suicide, a thousand gullible people jump up and say 'murder' and the media encourage it to sell papers and draw viewers. Doesn't mean it's true.

Cliff Baxter, an Enron director, 'retired' from Enron (he was only 43) last spring and he left in part due to his concern over the questionable business practices Chairman Kenneth Lay was engaging in. He worked for Enron for ten years and cashed out his 401(k) and stock options for about 30 million when he left the company, which was perfectly legal and proper as the company was still doing O.K. then.

Supposedly he was distraught over being sued by stockholders, called before congressional committees, smeared as a crook and a bum due to his association with Enron. He couldn't deal with the humiliation and stress. Very sad.

I don't believe anyone will go to jail over the Enron debacle and if I had been Cliff Baxter, I would have made sure my hard-earned dough was sheltered in off-shore accounts and then faced the music.

Congressional committees have little power except to humiliate you and Baxter appeared to be a 'good guy', who tried to sound the alarm about the 3-card-Monte style of bookeeping Enron was playing and when his pleas fell on deaf ears, he bailed and took his 401(k) stash with him, just as anyone else would have done.

Maybe Baxter wasn't as 'clean' as he appeared or maybe he knew too much and was going to blow the whistle and was killed, but I strongly suspect that Cliff Baxter, at 43, simply saw his whole life going down the drain; his business reputation, his professional and personal pride, his accumulated fortune, maybe his marriage and family, the whole thing. Couldn't deal with it.

Some folks are a lot more resilient than others.

In any case, it's a tragedy. This whole Enron scandal is going to leave a lot of high-powered folks with scars. A shame, but what goes around, comes around or as the bible says; 'What a man reaps, so shall he sow'.

Clifford Baxter reaped death, probably by his own hand. Sometimes, the Mercedes, the mansion, the money just aren't worth it. Good object lesson.