Ever hear of this speed detection system used by cops?

[82 GT]

I got a speeding ticket last Sunday. The cop said I was doing 54 in a 35 zone. I never got a ticket I didn't deserve until now.
I said to him "what did you use.....vascar?
He said "no, it called Robic and it's done with a stop watch"
I tried to look this info up online but all I found was that "Robic" is a type of stopwatch.
Has anyone heard of this system and know how it works? It sounds similiar to Vascar which means it's prone to human error.
I'm going to fight this one and I'm trying to dig up as much info on it as I can.
He was obviously a rookie because he made tons of mistakes when he pulled me over.
He never noticed that my daughter and I were not seatbelted.
My license and registration has two different addresses because I moved last year and he never asked if I had a change of address card and I accidently gave him an outdated insurance card that expired 10/02(the new one was still at home on the fridge....LOL)
My question is: If he couldn't notice obvious stuff like that then one must wonder how accurate he was with that stopwatch.
I have a very good feeling I could beat this ticket.

[BLOCKER]

In defence of the police officers oversights

1. He never noticed that my daughter and I were not seatbelted.
- he might of, just never called you on it

2. My license and registration has two different addresses
- could have missed, or not even looked, he could have been satified that you produced the documents

3. I accidently gave him an outdated insurance card that expired 10/02
- same as number 2
- if he noticed he could have assumed that you did have insurance but produced an old card.

If your laws are anything like they are in ALBERTA Canada, A police officer can issue a speeding ticket based soley on an estimation, and it will stand in court as long as he can prove to the judge that he is accurate within a few Km/h.

To bring up the police officers "oversights" in court would not work (in my opinion). They are considered trained proffessionals by the courts.

In ALBERTA Canada a police officer can issue a traffic ticket up to 6 months after the incident... your testimony, under oath, if the police officer wanted to be a prick could issue you at least 4 more tickets. (he most likely wouldn't)

as far as your "robic" I have never heard of it ... but that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

I would fight it based solely on making the police officer explain this method and grill him on it. If any thing you might be able to deal with the prosecutor and get a deal (ie/no demirits, reduced penalty). But what ever you do, do not name call, point fingers, or be an ***. When you go to court be polite, proffessional, and dress appropriately, the judges and prosecutors take all of that into consideration.

[mustangII460]

Great answer Blocker.

Robic Chronometers are used to determine the speed of a specific vehicle in the same manner as a VASCAR system, although with a handheld stopwatch, the police officer can now be sitting at the side of the road having a coffee for all you know. There's no radar, no loops, no tell-tale signs. Just a plain and simple digital stopwatch, and two points a known distance apart. The officer inputs the distance into the stopwatch (accurate to 1/1000th of a mile or km) and then just presses 'Start', then 'Stop'. The Mk1 device shows the speed in the top-right corner whilst the Mk2 device shows it in the main display area. The display speed can be in either mph or kmh, the timing is accurate to 1/100 second (even if the officer isn't), it can count 999 vehicles before needing to be reset, and never needs calibrating. Oh, and it's back-lit so it can be used in the dark too. Stealth police! They came into use originally with foot-patrols in estate areas.

Good luck fighting it..

[95mustanggt]

I was caught in Arizona like that. Cop timed me between 2 mile markers and pulled me over. However he was 200-300 feet behind me and I don't see how accurate it was, since I was only going like 5 mph over.

Anyway, I never did fight it because I would have had to drive from Dallas to Arizona, and I was too lazy.

Fight it.

[82 GT]

It's still prone to human error. The officer has to manually push a button to start the timer and also to stop it which means human error is introduced twice.
No human has perfect reflexes...although most cops think they are superhuman anyway. Police mentallity alone can lose court cases.
Thanks for the info MUSTANGII460 , even though I know you are a police officer and bias towards the mighty blue shield.

[bigred90gt]

First off, to answer your question, I know ablolutely nothing about this new system.

Second, and dont take this the wrong way , but what the HELL were YOU and YOUR DAUGHTER doing not wearing seatbelts? Some people claim that they are "uncomfortable" or they were just going down the street. But when considering the alternatives, like killing yourself and you daughter (obiously you were speeding) I would say that a seatbelt would be a good idea. You are obviously a grown man and can make your own decisions, but to become another statistic because you just didnt want to wear it, and your daughter at that, I will never understand.

[82 GT]

Originally posted by bigred90gt
First off, to answer your question, I know ablolutely nothing about this new system.

Second, and dont take this the wrong way , but what the HELL were YOU and YOUR DAUGHTER doing not wearing seatbelts? Some people claim that they are "uncomfortable" or they were just going down the street. But when considering the alternatives, like killing yourself and you daughter (obiously you were speeding) I would say that a seatbelt would be a good idea. You are obviously a grown man and can make your own decisions, but to become another statistic because you just didnt want to wear it, and your daughter at that, I will never understand.

Sorry, but I did take that the wrong way especially at the part where you "assumed" I was speeding. I assure you that I was not !!
Like I said before, I never got a ticket I didn't deserve...until now!
I'd explain the details on how I couldn't have been speeding but you already have it in your head that I was speeding.
Second, you're right about the seatbelts, my daughter usually puts in on without someone telling her to and I should have noticed she wasn't wearing one.
I never speed with my kids in the car which is why I know I wasn't speeding.(won't be good enough for a judge...I know)


Third, and don't you take this the wrong way either...DON'T EVER REFER TO OR SPEAK ABOUT MY DAUGHTER IN THAT BOLD TONE AGAIN.
Are we crystal clear on that one?

[bigred90gt]

Originally posted by 82 GT
Sorry, but I did take that the wrong way especially at the part where you "assumed" I was speeding. I assure you that I was not !!
Like I said before, I never got a ticket I didn't deserve...until now!
I'd explain the details on how I couldn't have been speeding but you already have it in your head that I was speeding.
Second, you're right about the seatbelts, my daughter usually puts in on without someone telling her to and I should have noticed she wasn't wearing one.
I never speed with my kids in the car which is why I know I wasn't speeding.(won't be good enough for a judge...I know)


Third, and don't you take this the wrong way either...DON'T EVER REFER TO OR SPEAK ABOUT MY DAUGHTER IN THAT BOLD TONE AGAIN.
Are we crystal clear on that one?

Look dude, you dont have to get your panties in a bunch. You are the one driving around in your car with YOUR DAUGHTER NOT wearing a seatbelt, not me. And, I appologize for "assuming" you were speeding. I have been know to make a mistake from time to time. But anyone that would take another persons life into their own hands and risk it, should be spoken to in a bold tone.

[82 GT]

We all risk our lives and the lives of eveyone else on the roads the second we pull out of the driveway....seatbelts or not.
My original question was not if seatbelts are a good idea or not.
If you want to preach and then admonish those who don't wear a seatbelt, do yourself a favor and post a poll here and find out who doesn't wear seatbelts and then give those people your lecture about seatbelts.
Right now, this post is about Robic, a speed enforcement system used by the police. If you don't have valuable input on the subject(not seatbelts) then don't post here........please!!!

[bigred90gt]

Originally posted by 82 GT
We all risk our lives and the lives of eveyone else on the roads the second we pull out of the driveway....seatbelts or not.
My original question was not if seatbelts are a good idea or not.
If you want to preach and then admonish those who don't wear a seatbelt, do yourself a favor and post a poll here and find out who doesn't wear seatbelts and then give those people your lecture about seatbelts.
Right now, this post is about Robic, a speed enforcement system used by the police. If you don't have valuable input on the subject(not seatbelts) then don't post here........please!!!

Ay, Ay, Cap'n.

To the original post - I would fight it. I dont see how they can get away with guestimating, and yes that is all it is is a guestimation, of your speed. Thats like writing you a ticket because they were following you and their speedo says xx for speed. Usually it doesnt hold up in court. If you can afford a good enough lawyer, you could probably beat it. If not, you are probably better off taking the ticket and then taking defensive driving. I dont know where you live, but in Texas, you can take it (defensive driving), and not ony remove the ticket, but get a discount on your insurance. Gotta love Texas laws. I would fight it because I am stubborn and dont feel that it is a legit way to clock someones speed, not because I think there is any way I would win. If it is "reliable" enough to be employed by the state, then I wish you the best of luck in the battle.

[82 GT]

Thanks
See...that wasn't so hard was it?(LOL)

[BLOCKER]

bigred90gt:

"Thats like writing you a ticket because they were following you and their speedo says xx for speed."

The speedo on a police cruiser is checked and calibrated every 3 months, this is a very accurate way of checking speed, There is a calibration card which is entered into evidence with every police cruiser. ( I can only speek for Edmonton Alberta). That is hardly a guestimation. The officer is required to testify about how far, how long and at what distance he 'paced' you at. And yes it does hold up in court.

As far the police I have delt with, they will not testify to a fact if they do not know it as a fact. they are not willing to lie under oath, Their job is more important to them then a $150.00 speeding ticket, even thought the person who got it or got off of it probably deserved it anyways.

[95mustanggt]

You just have to hope that the police cruiser is not gaining on you. To be admissible I would assume you'd have to be going pretty fast (leaving no question to the fact your were speeding) and tail you for some time (Decreasing statistical error).

How are things in Edmonton these days? I kinda miss my home town some times, except in the winter

[Rev]

It's not so great to write a thread and then hammer those that respond. Even if you don't agree, you should be friendly. Actually, you can probably beat the ticket if you're willing to go to the expense of hiring a lawyer to contest it in court.

rev

[HotRoddin]

Originally posted by 82 GT
It's still prone to human error. The officer has to manually push a button to start the timer and also to stop it which means human error is introduced twice.

You're right, and the closer the 2 points he's measuring are together, the bigger the error if he's not right on pushing the button. lets say his measured distance is 600 feet (2 football field lengths), and lets say you actually took 6 seconds to go that distance ... that would be 68 MPH ... now lets say he pushes his stopwatch button a half a second early and times you at 5.5 seconds instead of the 6 it actually took you ... that means when you were actually going 68 MPH, his gizmo will say you're going 74 MPH. Now if hes timing you over a distance of say a mile like 95mustanggt was talking about then that same half second error in him pushing his button would only mean a difference of about 1 MPH ... so if you were actually going that same 68 MPH he'd clock you at 69 MPH. The error does increase as your speed increases too.
Keep in mind thats exactally how they get your speed at the drag strip... they have 2 timing lights a known distance apart and they time how long it took you to go that known distance, and convert it to MPH, but keep in mind these are electronic timers that time down to about a thousandth of a sec acurately, so they are very close to on the money.
Bottom line is you better hope they are timing you over a long distance or they are paying very close attention to when they push the button on that stopwatch (as opposed to picking the krispy Kreme glaze off their shirt)
To all you coppers on the board, the krispy kreme crack was just a joke !!! i swear it was !!

[BLOCKER]

Any ticket can be beat in court.... to be perfectly honest, a lot of police officers don't realy care if you get off the ticket or not, if you fight the ticket, it just give the officer a chance to possibly pick up on some Over Time (if the court date falls on a day off). At the end of the day it is all about taking home a pay check.. (and putting S*** rats in jail)

for the record... Tim Hortons is better

[Fox Body]

I think hotrodding illustrated your point well 82 GT. If I knew I wasn't speeding, I'd mostly likely have to fight it-- no lawyer (unless the size of the fine was astronomical). Hope it works out for you (take Blocker's advice well). Let us know how it works out.

[ac97gt]

HotRoddin did an excellent job describing the error involved. to be honest i would present that info to the judge. have some numbers jotted down and when the cop says the distance he used (he must have to) to clock you, give her the error for half a second (not unreasonable error for a bored sober man). regarding the clocking you with their cruiser... i dont know about you guys but i usually check my rearview constantly and i know whos behind me. if a cop was coming up on me while i was speeding, before he could get within a few hundred feet of me i would jam my breaks on so hard he would have trouble not crashing into me, let alone guesstimating a speed using his speedometer. if you let a cop ride your *** long enough to let him guess your speed with his speedo you deserve the ticket.

[82 GT]

I think some of you misunderstood me. He didn't clock me with his speedometer, he used some hi-teck stopwatch and timed me between 2 white lines.
He says the distance is 195 ft. but I was just over there today and I'm going to measure myself because that does not look like 195 ft. to me. It looks more like 100 ft.
I don't think cops plan on people actually measuring the distance
themselves but I am!!

[ac97gt]

i didnt misunderstand i was responding to what the other guys wrote. anyway 195ft is good for your argument. that means it took you 2.46sec to go across that 195ft distance to get 54mph (what he said). if you were to round that up to an even 3sec, meaning he had a quarter of a second delay (very reasonable) per click of the stopwatch, that would mean your real speed was 44mph. the time for 35mph (the speed limit) over that distance would have to be 3.8sec meaning he was off by more than a second overall (an unreasonable argument). him being off by half a second is about as much as you could arguably push it, making you at 44mph, which is still 10 less than he said. perhaps logical argument will appeal to the judge. even arguing that if he clicked 0.5sec slow you were going 10mph less might get him/her to waive it. good luck.