Court TV Drag Racing Trial

05-09-2003, 02:13 PM

Right now on Court TV they're showing live coverage from San Diego, CA on two guys who were drag racing and killed 2 innocent bystander/drivers. Very interesting....and sad.

http://www.courttv.com/trials/dragrace/

srv1 · 05-09-2003, 09:52 PM

i say charge them with murder! they had complete awareness and control of themselves. hope they get life!

James

Skyman · 05-10-2003, 02:29 PM

I wouldnt give them life. They didnt set out to murder anyone, that is clearly Manslaughter and not murder 1 or 2. Im sure 80% of us have made a bad mistake and raced on the street plenty of times. 87mph is fast, but the freeways reguarly move at that speed around here. Too bad those people died, but it shows how much safer you are in a big car.

Skyler

05-10-2003, 07:21 PM

Michigan has a specific statute that deals with this scenario exactly. It states:

750.324 Negligent homicide; penalty. [M.S.A. 28.556 ]
Sec. 324. Any person who, by the operation of any vehicle upon any highway or upon any other property, public or private, at an immoderate rate of speed or in a careless, reckless or negligent manner, but not wilfully or wantonly, shall cause the death of another, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment in the state prison not more than 2 years or by a fine of not more than $2,000.00, or by both such fine and imprisonment.

History: 1931, Act 328, Eff. Sept. 18, 1931 ;--CL 1948, 750.325 ;--Am. 1965, Act 38, Eff. Mar. 31, 1966 .

Former Law: See section 2 of Act 98 of 1921, being CL 1929, § 16744.

The penalty may be a little too light but the law's 40 years old.

Skyman · 05-10-2003, 07:34 PM

What would be interesting to know is if the people who were killd were following all the rules and traffic laws at the time too.

Skyler

05-10-2003, 08:08 PM

There was a witness who saw the crash in his rear-view mirror. He took the same corner as the car that was hit and watched the whole thing in his mirror after realizing how fast the 2 coming at him were going. He testified they didn't do anything wrong/illegal.

Rev · 05-10-2003, 08:55 PM

Not too sure I understand the scenerio. Did the Geo turn in front of the drag racers? Turning in front of speeding cars is suicidal IMHO. Not to rag on srv1, but these fatalities did bring some of this on. I know my comments won't be popular.

Rev

05-10-2003, 09:12 PM

Yes. The Geo turned in front of 2 cars racing 87+mph in a 45mph zone.

Skyman · 05-11-2003, 02:05 PM

GOTTA PAY ATTENTION! Turning in front of any car puts some responsiblity on yourself. I was thinking they came around a corner and one of the cars was racing on the wrong side of the street.

Skyler

Fox Body · 05-11-2003, 04:14 PM

Sad story. (That's all I'm really gonna say).

20LbsBoost, if you keep up with the story, if possible, can you post the verdict to the case in the future. Thanks.

05-11-2003, 06:19 PM

Yup, sure will. I'll post the verdict here which will put this thread back up top.

srv1 · 05-11-2003, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skyman
GOTTA PAY ATTENTION! Turning in front of any car puts some responsiblity on yourself. I was thinking they came around a corner and one of the cars was racing on the wrong side of the street.

Skyler

Speeding is one thing, reckless driving is another. They were going WAY over the speed limit. They KNEW they were breaking laws, so with that in mind, they knew the consequences. Next time i will go 42 miles over the speed limit and hit someone by accident, even though i know it was at a dangerous speed, knowingly breaking the law and also putting my life and others at risk. I should get a hefty fine and a light sentence. PLEAASE!

They should get life. There is a difference between a highway 65-85 and a 30-45mph zone. They had no intent of killing or hurting anyone, but when you are speeding dangerously, your intent of innocents goes out the window.

I hope they like being someones b itch!

James

BilLster · 05-13-2003, 09:07 PM

same as drunk driving in my mind what if they had kids in the back seat and what if they were mine ??

they wouldnt have to wait for the jury

i street race but in a deserted area and there are no cross streets but ive shut down because of approching cars.

do the crime do the time.

it would also be like a armed bank robber who set out to rob the bank not to kill the gaurd.

Rev · 05-18-2003, 06:58 PM

Then if anyone is speeding, (by whatever amount) , if there is an accident involving a fatality, they should get life? Nope, not in my book. If you jump onto the tracks in the subway of NYC, if you slam on your brakes in front of an 18 wheeler, if you turn in front of speeding cars, then you will most likely die. At least, that's my take. BTW, anyone know what the final verdict was?

Rev

05-18-2003, 07:22 PM

The amount of negligence would determine the amount of criminal culpability.

As a point of law, when you violate traffic law you lose your "right of way". In this case, the drag racers have NO right of way due to their criminal actions, thus bear criminal responsibility for the tragic outcome.

This trial is actually a slam dunk. The only question is how much prison time to sentence the defendants.

Rev · 05-18-2003, 07:37 PM

As I understand it, no one ever actually "owns" the right of way. Some are required to "yield" the right of way according to law (varies between states). Failure to yield can void your rights in some instances. Not always a "slam dunk".

There's also the question of "failure to keep a proper look out", and oh yeah, "who had the last chance to avoid the accident".

So much for "slam dunks".

Rev

05-18-2003, 07:47 PM

It does here.

If someone's lawfully proceeding in a travel lane obeying all laws and someone hits them, you can bet your bottom line it'll be the other driver's fault (unless driver #1 is unlicensed).

Rev · 05-18-2003, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 20LbsBoost
Ilawfully proceeding in a travel lane

Lawfully proceding are "key words", I would think. Turning in front of someone is not lawful around my neck of the woods.

Rev

05-19-2003, 04:45 PM

It is unless they "failed to yield the right of way" and unlawfully hit someone. The driver of the Neon was conducting herself in a lawful manner whereas the other drivers were not. A reasonable and prudent person wouldn't expect oncoming vehicles to be traveling 80+mph, or be expected to judge the speed of such vehicles before making the lawful turn.

A comparison has been made regarding the same scenario and a drunk driver. If the Neon turned in front of a vehicle traveling 45mph but operated by a drunk it would still be the drunk's fault. Agree or not it's what happens in the real world.

Skyman · 05-19-2003, 06:42 PM

How different would it be if the person was plain speeding and not racing?

Skyler

05-09-2003, 09:52 PM	#2
srv1 Get down..... Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Room 103 Posts: 2,095	i say charge them with murder! they had complete awareness and control of themselves. hope they get life! James __________________ Cobra brakes are on! Finally..... ------------------------------------------------

05-10-2003, 02:29 PM	#3
Skyman I need 110mph Trap Speed! Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: So, CA Posts: 4,315	I wouldnt give them life. They didnt set out to murder anyone, that is clearly Manslaughter and not murder 1 or 2. Im sure 80% of us have made a bad mistake and raced on the street plenty of times. 87mph is fast, but the freeways reguarly move at that speed around here. Too bad those people died, but it shows how much safer you are in a big car. Skyler __________________ 2001 BMW M3 6spd 12.79@108 RIP ---- 1993 Notch w/ 98 4V 4.6 Fasttt... -1989 Saleen Mustang #406- 12.32@109 -1999 Black Cobra Coupe- JBA Shorties, Bassani Cat-X, Magnaflow 3", Pulleys, 85mm Pro-M, Ported Intake, Soild Rear w/ 4.30s, Tubular Front End, X2C arms, 13lb batt, few others.

05-10-2003, 07:34 PM	#5
Skyman I need 110mph Trap Speed! Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: So, CA Posts: 4,315	What would be interesting to know is if the people who were killd were following all the rules and traffic laws at the time too. Skyler __________________ 2001 BMW M3 6spd 12.79@108 RIP ---- 1993 Notch w/ 98 4V 4.6 Fasttt... -1989 Saleen Mustang #406- 12.32@109 -1999 Black Cobra Coupe- JBA Shorties, Bassani Cat-X, Magnaflow 3", Pulleys, 85mm Pro-M, Ported Intake, Soild Rear w/ 4.30s, Tubular Front End, X2C arms, 13lb batt, few others.

05-10-2003, 08:55 PM	#7
Rev Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1998 Location: Houston, Tx. Posts: 3,887	So who turned in front opf whom? Not too sure I understand the scenerio. Did the Geo turn in front of the drag racers? Turning in front of speeding cars is suicidal IMHO. Not to rag on srv1, but these fatalities did bring some of this on. I know my comments won't be popular. Rev __________________ '66 Coupe, 306, 350-375 HP, C-4, 13.07 e.t., 104.8 mph, 1/4 mi. O.B.C. #2 '66 coupe

05-11-2003, 02:05 PM	#9
Skyman I need 110mph Trap Speed! Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: So, CA Posts: 4,315	GOTTA PAY ATTENTION! Turning in front of any car puts some responsiblity on yourself. I was thinking they came around a corner and one of the cars was racing on the wrong side of the street. Skyler __________________ 2001 BMW M3 6spd 12.79@108 RIP ---- 1993 Notch w/ 98 4V 4.6 Fasttt... -1989 Saleen Mustang #406- 12.32@109 -1999 Black Cobra Coupe- JBA Shorties, Bassani Cat-X, Magnaflow 3", Pulleys, 85mm Pro-M, Ported Intake, Soild Rear w/ 4.30s, Tubular Front End, X2C arms, 13lb batt, few others.

05-09-2003, 02:13 PM	#1
20LbsBoost Guest Posts: n/a	Court TV Drag Racing Trial Right now on Court TV they're showing live coverage from San Diego, CA on two guys who were drag racing and killed 2 innocent bystander/drivers. Very interesting....and sad. http://www.courttv.com/trials/dragrace/

05-10-2003, 07:21 PM	#4
20LbsBoost Guest Posts: n/a	Michigan has a specific statute that deals with this scenario exactly. It states: 750.324 Negligent homicide; penalty. [M.S.A. 28.556 ] Sec. 324. Any person who, by the operation of any vehicle upon any highway or upon any other property, public or private, at an immoderate rate of speed or in a careless, reckless or negligent manner, but not wilfully or wantonly, shall cause the death of another, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment in the state prison not more than 2 years or by a fine of not more than $2,000.00, or by both such fine and imprisonment. History: 1931, Act 328, Eff. Sept. 18, 1931 ;--CL 1948, 750.325 ;--Am. 1965, Act 38, Eff. Mar. 31, 1966 . Former Law: See section 2 of Act 98 of 1921, being CL 1929, § 16744. The penalty may be a little too light but the law's 40 years old.

05-10-2003, 08:08 PM	#6
20LbsBoost Guest Posts: n/a	There was a witness who saw the crash in his rear-view mirror. He took the same corner as the car that was hit and watched the whole thing in his mirror after realizing how fast the 2 coming at him were going. He testified they didn't do anything wrong/illegal.

05-10-2003, 09:12 PM	#8
20LbsBoost Guest Posts: n/a	Yes. The Geo turned in front of 2 cars racing 87+mph in a 45mph zone.

05-11-2003, 04:14 PM	#10
Fox Body Mustang Maniac Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: GA, U.S.A Posts: 2,266	Sad story. (That's all I'm really gonna say). 20LbsBoost, if you keep up with the story, if possible, can you post the verdict to the case in the future. Thanks. __________________ 351W-powered 1979 Ford Mustang Ghia notchback '79 Video @ Idle Stock 5.8L under 4" cowl 'glass hood, C4 w/ Transgo shift kit, Holley 750 cfm, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake; Fluidyne Al radiator, Flexalite 175 electric fan, 1 5/8" MAC shorty headers, FRPP Al driveshaft; S&W 6-point cage; 2.5" Off road H-pipe, 2-chamber Flowmasters, 8.8" Rear w/ 3.55s; Weld wheels (15x6;15x8), Front: 225/60/15, Rear: 275/50/15 Nitto NT 555R Drag Radials; 14 x 4” K&N X-stream air filter. '92 GT (5-speed) Small In Car Video Stock 5.0L, 2-chamber Flowmasters, MAC CAI, Tri-Ax, Al pedals... "Red, thou art my companion. Hasten now your quickened metamorphosis to Green that I may conquer all who dare abide there beside me. May they be left thither behind burnt black." ---Fox Body

05-11-2003, 06:19 PM	#11
20LbsBoost Guest Posts: n/a	Yup, sure will. I'll post the verdict here which will put this thread back up top.

05-13-2003, 09:07 PM	#13
BilLster Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Ontario canada Posts: 446	same as drunk driving in my mind what if they had kids in the back seat and what if they were mine ?? they wouldnt have to wait for the jury i street race but in a deserted area and there are no cross streets but ive shut down because of approching cars. do the crime do the time. it would also be like a armed bank robber who set out to rob the bank not to kill the gaurd. __________________ 89 with 331 t3'/t4 hybrids. upr Suspention worked out finnaly . 9.89 144 mph .

05-18-2003, 06:58 PM	#14
Rev Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1998 Location: Houston, Tx. Posts: 3,887	So? Then if anyone is speeding, (by whatever amount) , if there is an accident involving a fatality, they should get life? Nope, not in my book. If you jump onto the tracks in the subway of NYC, if you slam on your brakes in front of an 18 wheeler, if you turn in front of speeding cars, then you will most likely die. At least, that's my take. BTW, anyone know what the final verdict was? Rev __________________ '66 Coupe, 306, 350-375 HP, C-4, 13.07 e.t., 104.8 mph, 1/4 mi. O.B.C. #2 '66 coupe Last edited by Rev; 05-18-2003 at 07:19 PM..

05-18-2003, 07:22 PM	#15
20LbsBoost Guest Posts: n/a	The amount of negligence would determine the amount of criminal culpability. As a point of law, when you violate traffic law you lose your "right of way". In this case, the drag racers have NO right of way due to their criminal actions, thus bear criminal responsibility for the tragic outcome. This trial is actually a slam dunk. The only question is how much prison time to sentence the defendants.

05-18-2003, 07:37 PM	#16
Rev Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1998 Location: Houston, Tx. Posts: 3,887	No one has it, some lose it As I understand it, no one ever actually "owns" the right of way. Some are required to "yield" the right of way according to law (varies between states). Failure to yield can void your rights in some instances. Not always a "slam dunk". There's also the question of "failure to keep a proper look out", and oh yeah, "who had the last chance to avoid the accident". So much for "slam dunks". Rev __________________ '66 Coupe, 306, 350-375 HP, C-4, 13.07 e.t., 104.8 mph, 1/4 mi. O.B.C. #2 '66 coupe Last edited by Rev; 05-18-2003 at 07:49 PM..

05-18-2003, 07:47 PM	#17
20LbsBoost Guest Posts: n/a	It does here. If someone's lawfully proceeding in a travel lane obeying all laws and someone hits them, you can bet your bottom line it'll be the other driver's fault (unless driver #1 is unlicensed). Last edited by 20LbsBoost; 05-18-2003 at 07:58 PM..

05-19-2003, 04:45 PM	#19
20LbsBoost Guest Posts: n/a	It is unless they "failed to yield the right of way" and unlawfully hit someone. The driver of the Neon was conducting herself in a lawful manner whereas the other drivers were not. A reasonable and prudent person wouldn't expect oncoming vehicles to be traveling 80+mph, or be expected to judge the speed of such vehicles before making the lawful turn. A comparison has been made regarding the same scenario and a drunk driver. If the Neon turned in front of a vehicle traveling 45mph but operated by a drunk it would still be the drunk's fault. Agree or not it's what happens in the real world.

05-19-2003, 06:42 PM	#20
Skyman I need 110mph Trap Speed! Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: So, CA Posts: 4,315	How different would it be if the person was plain speeding and not racing? Skyler __________________ 2001 BMW M3 6spd 12.79@108 RIP ---- 1993 Notch w/ 98 4V 4.6 Fasttt... -1989 Saleen Mustang #406- 12.32@109 -1999 Black Cobra Coupe- JBA Shorties, Bassani Cat-X, Magnaflow 3", Pulleys, 85mm Pro-M, Ported Intake, Soild Rear w/ 4.30s, Tubular Front End, X2C arms, 13lb batt, few others.

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