Fuel Prices

[Capri306]

Just imagine if we could get everyone, or at least those to whom it would be practical, to ride a bicycle instead of driving to work. Instant price drop.

Oh, not to mention the drop in pants size, too!

[82 GT]

Originally Posted by Capri306

Just imagine if we could get everyone, or at least those to whom it would be practical, to ride a bicycle instead of driving to work. Instant price drop.

Oh, not to mention the drop in pants size, too!

Well...that will never happen because we Americans, are lazy!
Sad but tue

[Unit 5302]

MEDIK418, there are very few industries or major companies in this country which aren't very much like Dilbert of Office Space, IMHO.

Again, the points you raise are completely valid, but we see two completely different driving forces behind the final outcome. Let me further complicate and simplify things at the same time.

Step 1 - Oil companies bid on oil futures. They are buying oil to pick up at a future date at a set price today. Much like if you special order something from a store. You set a price now, it comes later.

Step 2 - Transportation of oil to refineries. This hasn't changed much.

Step 3 - Refining process. Again, very little changing here in the past few years, certainly no recession in technology or efficiency. It is worth noting that the amount of gasoline that can be refined from any particular type of crude or shipment of crude is different. Some types of crude yield far better supplies of gasoline than others. This is not really relevant to the ultimate price though, IMHO.

Step 4 - Jobbers bid on gasoline futures, much like the oil companies bid on oil futures.

Step 5 - Transportation of gasoline to stations. There is some additional expense here as the cost of diesel for the trucks increased along with the price of gasoline, but the additional cost is insignificant to the total price of gasoline.

Step 6 - State and Federal taxes are added to retail use gasoline. In Minnesota, this additional fee adds $0.40/gallon.

Step 7 - Station markup. Gas stations typically enjoy a small markup; however, they tend to raise and lower prices according to the largest retailer in the area. i.e. Super America largely controls market trends in Minneapolis. In Minnesota, the minimum markup is set to maintain competition. It's $0.06.

Hurricane Katrina resulted in the following issues:

1) Oil companies bid dramatically higher for crude.
2) Jobbers bid dramatically higher for gasoline.
3) People paid much higher prices at the pump.

Let's evaluate why 1 and 2 happened, since 3 is quite obvious.

1) The skyrocketing price in crude oil was created for what reason? Refinery capacity had been significantly reduced, and the oil companies have repeatedly stated that refineries in the US are already operating at max capacity, normally. This means that the actual supply of oil was suddenly much greater than demand. Except there is one other issue. The oil production in the Gulf of Mexico was significantly reduced. What impact did that have? Considering the Gulf of Mexico produces only a fraction of the approximately 30% of US oil used domestically, not enough to offset the production capacity lost. In other words, oil companies had less need for oil than they had before the storm because they couldn't refine it anyway. Yet they fought tooth and nail to dramatically raise prices of crude. Back to this in a moment...

2) Jobbers also bid much higher for gasoline, but for what reason? Since oil refineries typically store very little gasoline compared to total production capacity, it would make sense that a jobber might bid much higher to secure fuel to sell to stations. Oil companies and refineries would be rather dumb to turn away higher profits, much like a seller wouldn't cancel an e-bay auction because they were getting too much money. That being said, this is based on the assumption that jobbers felt future supplies of gasoline would be more difficult to find, especially since the US refineries were already at maximum capacity before the storm. This would imply taking 25% of the refining capacity out of the equation would create a fuel shortage, making it important to secure fuel, even at higher prices to ensure you had something to sell. This would also imply that somebody would have fuel shortages. Were 1 in 4 American's unable to get gasoline at a local station? Was gasoline rationing implemented to ensure everybody was able to procure the fuel they needed?

...This brings me back to the increasing crude prices, and why the jobbers bid so high. The oil companies used the increased crude prices as an excuse for rapidly increasing prices at the pump. Even though the oil they were purchasing would not be used in the immediate future, they passed this cost along to the consumer immediately. To be fair, the price of gasoline also immediately drops after oil prices fall, albeit not nearly as quickly. In the meantime, the oil companies painted a very dire situation regarding immediate gasoline refining capability forcing the jobbers into a high bid mode. Jobbers are also professionals, and extremely competitive, much more so than oil refineries and companies as there are many more people they're in competition with.

3) The end result was that people paid far more at the pump than they should have. The oil companies, who weren't actually refining and selling the oil they paid $70/bbl for reaped record profits as a result of the fear they intentionally created regarding fuel shortages. The reasoning they gave behind this to the US Senate? If they hadn't intentionally increased prices, there would have been shortages. How many of you decreased your fuel consumption by 25% or more? Anybody stop going to work 1-2 days a week? Maybe you didn't go to the grocery store? How many of you went to a filling station and found they were out of gasoline, not because the lines were wrapped 2 miles around the place with panicked people two hours prior or that the power was out, but seriously because they were unable to secure a reasonable supply of gasoline? There was no shortage, thus no realistic supply/demand model to apply here. Yes, supplies were somewhat reduced, but almost everybody that wanted to fill up did, and exactly when they wanted to.

This is what happens to capitalist markets when there is no or little competition. Small groups of companies can cooperate to control the price of goods and services in the market.

The truth that I see is that the oil companies knew exactly how to play the American people, while still having an alibi when it came to explaining why Americans were suddenly paying so much more to the US Government. Since the current leaders of our government have very little desire to actually attack big oil (lots and lots of soft money), they still need an explanation for their constituents, and this all worked out well for big oil.

[MEDIK418]

I agree we see things differently and I wish to point out a couple of things you mentioned that are simply not as it happened.
First was step three: Nothing has changed in the refining process in the past few years? This is ludicrous. I refer you to the last post I made. Consider the cost of refining gasoline. The utility cost, natural gas, electricity, water, has gone out of sight over the past few years.

As I said, the refiners pay the same price you do for all of these things. This winter harbors an approximate 50-60 percent hike in natural gas and the past two years have seen these prices skyrocket. To say this hasn't affected the cost of refining gasoline is simply wrong.
And yes, the refining processes themselves have changed in many states due to state and federal legislation for "beautique fuels" that California for one has seen fit to force on the refiners. The capital investments alone for our company number in the billions in the last few years just to lower the sulfur content in gasoline and diesel.
These are facts and you cannot ignore them. ConocoPhillips made 13 billion dollars last quarter. A good chunk of change indeed. They also invested more than 13 billion in capital projects that will go toward finding more crude outside the OPEC countries in hopes of not having to depend so much on them.

Transportation to refineries hasn't changed much? Did you know that the oil companies are building safer double hulled tankers soce the Exxon Valdeez decided to dump it's load on the Alaskan coastline? They are much less prone to leaks but they haul considerably less than the older tankers and last time I checked, the price of steel has pretty much gone the way of oil and gas since these tankers were started. You can't tell me that building a dozen of these monsters in as short a time as they have doesn't raise the cost of transporting oil.


Transportation to gas stations indeed has gone up some but as you mentioned not enough to cause a signifigant rise but the major oil companies generally don't deliver their own gasoline. Jobbers do this. Yes there are a few who do own their own trucks but for the most part, distributors haul it.

Taxes. During the whole Katrina thing, the price of gas at the refinery has risen 26 cents a gallon. The American Petroleum Institute bears this out. Of that price, you failed to mention that 9 cents of that hike was taxes. Yes, taxes. Three cents a gallon was added just because of the added profit. I never said the prices weren't set rediculously high for no apparent reason but lets' be honest about who was charging what here.
Again, don't let the facts get in the way.

You mentioned that 30 percent of the nation's refining capacity was llost and you are correct, on that we agree. The only places where gasoline prices should have been affected was the deep south. As a rule we don't truck gasoline all over the country. The prices we saw for the rest of the country were rediculous BUT, look at the refinery prices. They didn't reflect the gouging levels we saw in many places.
Remember the "Beautique fuels" I mentioned earlier? You can't shift gasoline from one state to another simply because one state's refiers who have been forced to meet that state's stringent fuel requirements can't just up and change the way they refine gasoline to satisfy a neighboring market. You run out of your state's fuel, there's a better than average chance, you can't borrow some from the folks next door.

I disagree with the assertion that the Jobber feared shortages in the fuel suplies bacause of the reduced refining capacity. Remember the big oil crisis in the early seventies? There was no shortage of gasoline. Our tanks were brimming full and most of the refineries were scrambling to find places to store the stuff. I'm not making this up. The public's panic buying caused spot shortages. PERIOD!
Jobbers know that people tend to go off the deep end when a perceived threat to the supply is valid enough in their minds to cause them peoblems in the not too distant future. Jobbers know this and they bid higher bacause they know the war for supplies will heat up when the trucks can no longer get their deliveries made fast enough to keep the spot shortages down. Stations wil begin to run dry from the block long lines of cars trying to get every drop they can squeeze out of the pump. This has happened over and over again and the jobbers know the drill. It has nothing to do with decreasing gasoline supplies. True, the deep suth would have suffered before too long but the rest of the country was never in any danger.

I'll never say that the big oil companies don't know their way around the business world or the buying public. Some of the shadiest deals of the century happened in oil company board rooms. What I am trying to convey is that if you look into the prices paid at the refinery for gasoline, you will see that they didn't reflect the rediculous increases we saw at the pumps this year.

One more thing and I'll shut up. Where were all of your concerns for the past 20 years when most of the refiners in this country were running in the red? Yes they made big money but have you thought about how the money was reinvested? This year alone, our company committed to 34 billion dollars in projects that will enhance our ability to produce cheaper fuels or increase the supply of crude and natural gas. You see, they havent been able to do that in about 20 years. '99 and 2001 were good years but after that, it's been a bust for two decades.
Before you go off about the millions the CEO's make, I agree they make way more money than I think they should but even if you took half of their salaries away to offset the price of gasoline for however long it would last, the affect wouldn't last a day or two.. . we use too much of the stuff for it to make a difference.

Stop listening to politicians who don't have a clue. If you ever want to find out how completely wrong the press and the government are on a particular subject, wait until they do a story on somethng you are intimately familiar with.

I remember back in the early seventies a Texas Congressman no less made the comment for all the world to hear that "if these refineries would run 24 hours a day instead of going home at 5 o'clock, there wouldn't be any gas shortage"
You know what? The public believed him. Hell, I believed him. I had no clue how much or how long it takes to start a refinery and most of the world still doesn't.
How stupid can one person be?

[MEDIK418]

I;d like to add one more point and then I'm through with this.
A case in point to illustrate how the public's perception and the panic buying that follows events in the oil industry.
In February of this year, we blew up a major part of our refinery. End result was we lost production for a little over 100 days. That's 150,000 barrels a day.
The price of gasoline never went up a penny anywhere in the country because of it. Wanna know why?

Nobody heard about it.

Outside of the 20,000 or so residents of this area, the news never got out. The press didn't blow it out of proportion, nobody felt the pinch and more importantly, the company didn't find it a benefit to "gouge" anyone.

[Unit 5302]

MEDIK, I'm talking about an immediate change in taxes, refining technology, and transportation costs. An immediate change that resulted in gas increasing 100% in cost over a two year period, and 50% over a few day period. Double-hulled tankers, ethanol blended fuels, less productive crude, and additional refining cost is all reasonable, and would lead to a general increase in cost for the jobber, and ultimately the consumer. These are changes over time, not a few days or even just the last two years where fuel costs have shot up. Reinvestment into the industry is really a weak excuse because any company that does not reinvest into itself is a dead company in short order.

As far as taxes on profits are concerned, you're barking up the wrong tree. I work for a life insurance company. The state of NJ actually has a retaliatory tax. If our product is sold in a state other than NJ, which has a 2.1% premium tax, and the state it's sold in has a lower tax, NJ actually taxes us for the remainder, LOL. Also, the federal government has concluded that there is profit being made by the insurance companies on the premiums paid to them. Even though the insurance company is already being taxed on actual profits, there is apparently a hidden profit in the premiums. Therefore, the federal government taxes the insurers directly on premiums you pay, and the insurance companies pass that tax along to you. It's called DAC Tax... I think in Oregon they refer to it as administrative tax or something of the sort. Anyway, it's pretty much industry wide at 1.25% that's passed along to the consumer.

You are also correct that many states mandate blended fuels because of EPA emissions laws and testing. Minnesota used to be one, but we no longer need ethanol blended fuels because our air quality has improved. That being said, we still have a state law that requires them, mostly as a subsidy to farmers.

You also make it seem as though I'm arguing over issues that are now 30 years old. I wasn't alive until the late 70s, and it wasn't really an issue of interest until I was at least 3yrs old. hahah. Oil companies were in the red because of competition. Now there is much less competition and prices are soaring. You're helping my point out here.

I was aware of the February incident. As was the rest of Minnesota because our gas prices shot up, thanks. Such was to be expected, just for the record. I can't see the oil company blowing up one of their refineries because they wanted to raise prices. I'm not sure that the economic loss involved from asset reduction would offset the gain from increased revenue and profits.

I don't need to talk about executive compensation. Other people are doing it for me, lol.

http://www.faireconomy.org/press/2005/EE2005_pr.html

Let me just say this. What executives make at a public company almost never has much to do with their salary.

In any case, I don't see as though any of your points are invalid, I just don't recognize them as concrete excuses for the dramatic increases in price at the pump over the past two years, and especially following Katrina. The oil companies also agree with me, as they stated when they spoke with the US Senate, and when they reported earnings for 1Q and 2Q 2005.

I suppose it's fair to ask what price gouging is. dictionary.com defines it as:

"pricing above the market when no alternative retailer is available"

The definition really doesn't make any sense to me. There wouldn't be a "market" to price above if there were no other retailers to buy from. Meh. I define it as really the same thing as price fixing. dictionary.com defines price fixing as:

"The result of an unlawful agreement between manufacturers or dealers to set and maintain specified prices on typically competing products."

This very much seems to be the case to me.

[Unit 5302]

Oh, and btw, I think gas prices right now are fine. Not that I like what the current price is, but I don't see any artificial increases due to price fixing/gouging right now.

[Phillyfanfrombirth]

Originally Posted by MEDIK418

I;d like to add one more point and then I'm through with this.
A case in point to illustrate how the public's perception and the panic buying that follows events in the oil industry.
In February of this year, we blew up a major part of our refinery. End result was we lost production for a little over 100 days. That's 150,000 barrels a day.
The price of gasoline never went up a penny anywhere in the country because of it. Wanna know why?

Nobody heard about it.

Outside of the 20,000 or so residents of this area, the news never got out. The press didn't blow it out of proportion, nobody felt the pinch and more importantly, the company didn't find it a benefit to "gouge" anyone.

Yes, they did go up... however, it was a big issue only in business news. The public generally doesn't react to a couple pennies at the pump.

[MEDIK418]

Originally Posted by Phillyfanfrombirth

Yes, they did go up... however, it was a big issue only in business news. The public generally doesn't react to a couple pennies at the pump.

I beg to differ. The official government watchdog information agency reports that for the month of February, 2005, gasoline prices held steady (actually dropped 2 cents a gallon) until the last few days of the month and rose 4 cents nationwide.

My point is that whenever the public perceives a threat, the whole market goes nuts for no reason. I can't remember the hurricane that tore up the gulf before Katrine. Anyway, there were some damaged resources in the gulf but the Western side of Florida took the brunt. One drilling platform in particular, owned by BP Amoco, was found listing about 30 degrees after the hurricane tore through it. There was fear that it would topple if hit by the next storm which was already brewing. Gas prices went nuts again. Interesting part is that the rig was being towed out to sea when it was hit. It had never been put into production but the media had us believing that we'd lose production for years to come if it sunk during the next storm.

[Phillyfanfrombirth]

I aways cringe when I see a thread like this...

LOL...

We're getting schooled on supply, demand, fear, speculation, regulation, taxation, globalization, conservation, and a showing of how impotent congress is...

In other words, markets.

[Phillyfanfrombirth]

Markets fluctuate daily, at the exchange and at the pump. Just as in stocks, rarely will you be able to peg daily fluctuations on one thing or another, merely supply and demand (and I would argue liquidity) are the culprits... a lesson in markets. Another lesson is lag times... there is a normal lag time between futures and retail. That lag time is minimized in times of hysteria, which we saw in the week following Katrina.

Thunderhorse is the rig that you are speaking of... and it was Hurricane Dennis. The monster rig was supposed to be online by early next year (expectations mean more to the market than anything), and that event seemed to throw doubt into future supply... something that was later realized with Katrina and Rita. Dare I say, once again, the market was right.

As far as the public perceiving a threat... here's some fundamental investment advice... when the public perceives it, your close to the end. Parabolic "no end in sight" mentality is a key indicator of market tops and bottoms...

We've seen it is baseball cards, beanie babies, Pokemon cards, stocks, bonds, oil, natural gas, and now real estate... Markets work, period.

[Phillyfanfrombirth]

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/fre..._stories.shtml


Here was the story that I was thinking of... it happened March... there were a string of such events.

[MEDIK418]

Amen to the market thread. As for the story about the BP blast, we're about 700 miles North of those poor folks. BP has had a terrible year or two.
I've been accused (as has most oil industry employees) of causing these high prices and the fact that we have about as much impact on gasoline prices as we do on the color of corn usually causes the old "you don't cry about bottled water and nike prices do you" response. Like I said, we know what it takes to make a gallon of gasoline and we know the market controls every aspect of the industry, from the simple act of starting a well to the the finished product.
What amazes me now is that congress is trying to pass legislation to steal a huge chunk of the profits that oil companies have realized recently. Gee, what a great way to finance the raise they voted themselves. Let's make the problem worse by limiting capital investment money that would go a long way toward finding new reserves on our side of the pond. And lets be sure to build that 20 million dollar bridge in alaska for the 200 people who live on that island.

Anyway, I made myself out a liar. . . .I said I was through with this and I think I've flogged myself enough on this one. I'll save myself for the natural gas crisis coming up in about a month. That ought to be a riot.

[Phillyfanfrombirth]

My bet is on coal gasification...

As far as Natural Gas... we really lucked out in the past month or so with the weather to allow for those inventories to build again... Unlike oil and refined products, we can't import our way out of a natural gas shortage... The high prices should do their part in forcing consumers to conserve, this year as well.

In my own household, which is heated with heating oil, we've made the switch to electric via a number of baseboards. In my area, the main producers of electricity are coal and nuclear... I know others who've given up on their natural gas and have opted for wood and pellet stoves.

Again, the market works... a shortage and/or high prices in one commodity changes the acceptance and usage of that product as consumers look for alternatives. I just wish congress can get it through their skulls... Oil companies don't need tax incentives and tax breaks, they need access. Access to the continental shelf and access to ANWR...

Why it is so difficult for people and congress to understand markets and history is beyond me... they screw it up damn near every chance they get.

[Unit 5302]

Originally Posted by Phillyfanfrombirth

...Again, the market works... a shortage and/or high prices in one commodity changes the acceptance and usage of that product as consumers look for alternatives. I just wish congress can get it through their skulls... Oil companies don't need tax incentives and tax breaks, they need access. Access to the continental shelf and access to ANWR...

Why it is so difficult for people and congress to understand markets and history is beyond me... they screw it up damn near every chance they get.

Again. The market is broken because high prices are being set to stave off "possible" shortages. There is currently no reasonable alternative for gasoline or diesel fuel for Americans. Damn straight oil companies don't need tax incentives or breaks, but they do like their political purchases to yield some positive results.

The idea that access to the Arctic North Wildlife Refuge or the continental shelf would somehow change the situation we're in is absurd. The minimal economic impact of access to those resources in comparison to the potential ecological impact makes the tradeoff unwarranted. Crude oil is in no immediate danger of shortages, and quite frankly, encouraging the continued expansion and use of the resource is irresponsible. Now, refineries are another issue altogether. Approval to build a few would help, albeit only in the future since it will take years to get a new one running.

Congress and legislators respond to the demands of the people that put them in office, like they're supposed to. Since the Exxon-Mobil merger, gasoline prices have gone as high as triple what they were. Regardless of why prices were what they were, Americans want answers to why it's suddenly costing them $2000 more per year to get around. Such a change in price with a drop in competition absolutely invites the discussion of price gouging, especially when the oil companies respond to the questions with defiant and inflammatory statements. Obviously, anybody with a brain or knowledge of the situation can say oil prices have skyrocketed, leading to the increase in price of gasoline. That was a legitimate argument for most people until Exxon-Mobil started setting worldwide profit records. Now congress is listening to some very angry Americans that decide whether or not the representatives keep their jobs, and the defiant special interest groups that pay them.

The bottom line is that Americans are annoyed, they're leary of more corporate scandals, and the oil companies are antagonizing them.

[Phillyfanfrombirth]

Prices ran higher... aggregate demand dropped by up to 4% (which is stunning without an accompaning recession)... People were FORCED to conserve, not by law... but by necessity.

THIS is how markets work.... and they did, again.

Now, if you are saying that the price rise in oil was/is unwarranted... then we could agree on that. Just as housing markets that doubled in the past year are unwarranted (Where's the congressional hearing on that one?)... but that is also a function of the markets, speculative bubbles based on assumptions of no risk and tremendous rewards, pop.

We do need tremendous amounts of additional refining capacity... without a decade worth of red tape to get it started... I'll agree there, but we also need access, period.

I also love the argument, "yeah but that will take years".... had ANWR drilling been passed in 2001 when it was introduced, we'd be seeing production within the next 24 months... The delay tactics are part of the reason we are in this situation.

As far as gasoline... don't think it is going anywhere anytime soon.

Between coal gasification, Oil sands, and oil shale... all of which are profitable below $90/barrel... we have enough DOMESTIC capacity to fill our energy needs for the next 500 years.

As far as Exxon Mobil... check out their profit margins, or any major oil producer... you'll be surprised as what you'll find.

Also on that point... where was the contempt when oil was $10 a barrel after Russia and other Asian finances collapsed in 1998? Time and time again, people wish the government to do the work of the markets... and time and time again, the government screws it up. Check out the 1970s fixes, many of which are being bantied about now, and see how well they worked.

Then check out what happened in the early 1980s that changed that...

Its pretty clear.

[Unit 5302]

I agree, the red tape is ridiculous. That being said, nobody really knows how much fuel reserves we have. I don't necessarily think our current energy sources and production are the best we have to offer right now. How unstable is nuclear waste? Why can't we just blast the stuff into space? LOL. Sounds a little goofy, but you would think it wouldn't be all that expensive, plus so long as we don't have meltdowns, it's easier on the environment.

Exxon-Mobil's profit margins are not out of line with many companies. That being said, the profit is not being dictated by the market, it's being dictated by the oil companies, and it was approximately 2-3 times greater than what it had been. As far as the impact increasing the price had on consumption... the entire economy took a hit with the hurricane, and hundreds of thousands of people were not driving. To link the consumption drop directly to the increase in price is impossible.

Why are you asking me questions that you know the answer to? Where was the contempt when crude was $10 a barrel? People don't complain about things being too cheap, unless you're trying to sell a Mustang in Autumn or Winter, lol. Oil was too cheap, in all fairness. The oil companies were still making about $0.20/gallon profit on gasoline at that time, though. It's right about what they're making at the moment, by my calculations. OPEC finally got their act together and started cutting back production in unison. Though they were originally targetting no higher than $30/bbl I think they're liking the profits on the $50+/bbl so I don't think we'll see a signfiicant drop in price until demand falls greatly.

I'm not saying that the US government can fix the economy with legislation. I'm just saying that congress is doing what they are supposed to when they listen to the taxpayers complain. It certainly would have gone a lot smoother had the oil companies not basically flipped the bird at congress and the American people even though they had the right to do so.

[Phillyfanfrombirth]

Demand doesn't fall in normal economic conditions... it only goes one way, up. Even @ $60, demand was up about 2% on a year over year basis... it wasn't until the Katrina straw, that the camel's back was broken and demand deteriorated to the negative side.

It has recently, as the price of oil has come in to the high 50s, come back to flat year over year...

I'm not one to blame the oil companies for doing business... I blame our government's policies, strong foreign demand, and our own surprisingly robust economy... The government limits our supply, and the economy provides greater demand. It is (was) a train wreck in the making, especially when you add in the speculative aspect.

As far as why I ask you a loaded question, the same market forces are at work today as they were 7 years ago... people tend to like markets when the stuff they want to buy is cheaper than it otherwise was, as was the case from 83-early2000 (with the exception of Gulf War I spikes in 1990-1991), then cry foul when the market goes against their best interests.

As any commodity trader will tell you, the best cure for low prices... is low prices. The best cure for high prices... is high prices.

[Unit 5302]

The biggest reason that oil prices had fallen so low in the late 90s was OPEC. The nations would collectively agree to limit production to a certain level, and inevitably, one nation would break the agreement and start pumping to beat hell.

The disagreements on production go quite a ways back, and it was one reason why Iraq invaded Kuwait. The two were sitting on an oil field that was under both countries, and on one side, Kuwait was pumping to beat all hell. It would be similar to Canada was cutting down trees for wood in Glacier National Park, and amazingly enough, it got Iraq a little poed.

With OPEC finally more unified, they have actually been controlling production a lot better, and it would have resulted in oil priced around the target of $30/bbl if it hadn't been for crazy people getting into a futures bid war, and the unexpected large increase in demand from Asian markets.

[Phillyfanfrombirth]

I can agree with that... It got to a point that countries couldn't survive with the limits and $10 oil, and needed to up their revenues... Surely, however, the Asian economies thwarted anticipated demand for those handful of years.

Though I find it extremely hard to believe that at these levels, they don't have peasants with siphons in those wells trying to extract every drop available.

LOL.