Gay Marriage
 

No one has said anything about this, that I've noticed. I for one don't really care if there are same sex marriages, they don't effect me. The only thing I could think of was the insurance companies. If same sex marriages are recognized then the insurance companies will have to cover the same sex spouse.. that may effect me. When the insurance companies start having to pay for the AIDS treatment these folks tend to get, will that make my rates go up?? I'm certain it will. I'm all for people being happy as long as it doesn't effect me. I think all people should be happy, live your own life.. as long as it doesn't effect the rest of the population.

I don't agree... God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. :p

While I agree with what you are saying... what do I care what Adam and Steve are doing? I don't. If it makes them happy and doesn't effect me, I couldn't care less.


LOL! You're cute.:D

Exactly!

I agree partly with RBatson, if they want to get married, so be it. Its none of my, or anyone elses, business what they do with their lives. The other part about the "AIDS treatment these folks tend to get", I dont buy into the whole "AIDS is a gay disease". It rationally just doesnt make any sense.

I couldn't care less either. To me, there are just way too many other, more important, things to worry about.
Live and let live, they don't bother me.


Me either. AIDS is a worldwide epidemic that EVERYONE has to worry about. Scary thing. :(

Which is exactly why they should be able to. Marriage is a legal act, and as such the bible, and your, or any other God, aren't permitted to affect the laws of the land. Something about the separation of church and state.

Not allowing two consenting adults to marry because of their sexual preference, race, or religious background is nothing more than discrimination. Athiests can get married, why not a couple of queers that truly love each other? 50% of straight marriages end in divorce, so if you want to tackle the issue religiously, go after the "bad" 50% first.

Mostly about recognition and acceptance. But also about social security, taxes and other legal things that come to married couples like pension survivor benefits and good IRA treatment on death of a partner. All of the latter affect us in a monetary way.

I'm not attacking anything, RBatson asked how we felt, and that's how I feel. I believe homosexuality is wrong, and I also believe that taking the covenant of marriage between a man, a woman, and God and bringing homosexuality into it is a joke. Fine if you and your same sex partner want equal rights as a married couple, but then call it something else, don't squander the word marriage.

See below the definition of marriage...

Main Entry: mar·riage
Pronunciation: 'mer-ij, 'ma-rij
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English mariage, from Anglo-French, from marier to marry
1 a (1) : the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law

Gay marriage is a fraud
 

Originally posted by MissBlondie :

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I'm not attacking anything, RBatson asked how we felt, and that's how I feel. I believe homosexuality is wrong, and I also believe that taking the covenant of marriage between a man, a woman, and God and bringing homosexuality into it is a joke. Fine if you and your same sex partner want equal rights as a married couple, but then call it something else, don't squander the word marriage.

I agree. In my opinion, homosexuals are seeking forced societial approval for their choice of sexual expression via the courts, stealing the mantle of 'civil rights' (from African-Americans, who's race truly is immutable, with the exception of Michael Jackson, apparently) to gain supporters who hear: 'civil rights' and leap to defend 'gay marriage'. Homosexuality is not genetic and not innate. Therefore, homosexuals not being included in the legal definition of 'marriage' is not 'discrimination' or in any way a 'civil rights' issue. Homosexuals do not have a 'civil right' to be legally married and this tactic, while successful with many, is a bogus claim. That they (and their many supporters) instantly charge anyone not buying into their demands for the re-definition of marriage to include homosexuals as: 'bigots', 'homophobes' and 'haters' is pretty cheesy but sadly common with the so-called 'gay lobby'. This tactic effectively shuts down any rational debate and simply 'demonizes' the opposition with no basis in fact. As I said, an all-too-common ploy, today.

Homosexuals don't like it but the serious scientific studies on 'What makes a homosexual' came to the conclusion that while there are many factors involved, almost all are enviromental and none are demonstrably genetic in nature. I happen to believe there is a proclivity in a tiny minority of people, male and female, for an attraction to the same sex, but that it is usually outweighed by other factors and can be reversed via therapy. This happens more than the homosexual advocates want you to know. In most cases, any ex-homosexual who goes public with his story is generally declared by the homosexual advocy groups as a 'fake' and either ignored or demeaned as being 'in denial' or simply as someone who was never really homosexual to begin with. Few ex-homosexuals need or want that kind of rejection and vilification so they keep quiet and just get on with their lives, often marrying and fathering children, leaving the 'gay' lifestyle far behind them. They are mostly invisible.

Meanwhile, the homosexual advocates trumpet the lie that homosexuality is immutable and as such, 'normal', as they push for more and more recognition by the law, now including the legal right to 'marry'. In my opinion, homosexual activists care little about actually being 'married' but a lot about forcing social acceptance of homosexuality on the public. It appears that this time, after decades of unbroken successes, the homosexual activists may have gone a bridge too far.

Like most reasonable people, I don't wish to stop those who wish to express their sexuality by engaging in same-sex relationships from doing so. I have no interest in being part of the Sexual Police Force. Let them do as they please with other consenting adults in the privacy of their homes, as the cliché goes. I do wish they would pay for their own AIDS treatments more often instead of pushing the expense (sometimes inevitable) unto taxpayers for what amounts to a preventable disease, same as drug addiction, alcholism and the many other non-fatal sexually transmitted diseases. However, that's a separate issue.

Like you, 'Miss Blondie', I hold no animus for any homosexual, although in all candor, I also disapprove of homosexuality on moral and religious grounds. That's my personal point of view and I have as much right to it as any homosexual activist (or anyone else on this board) does to his or her view. I believe the homosexual activists have little real grounds to make their insistence that we change the long-established law to appease their demands, which are emotional, not legal or sometimes even logical. So, I stand opposed to this latest attempt to re-define marriage in America. It has always been reserved for the (logical and rational) legal uniting of a man and a woman. This makes sense and always has. Now, after thousands of years, w're being asked to abandoned the traditional and logical definition of marriage to suit a tiny minority of people who go against the sexual norms and then demand to be called 'normal' by virtue of having their sexual relationships called a legal marriage. I think not.

That's what I think about it. :)

guys and girls it is about money. Sure there is the accepatance thing but these folks are smart as everybodyelse and there are financial benefits that acrue to married people as stated in my last post. Don't get all emotional over this. Consider the benefits of pension suviorship, IRA treatment, Social Security benefits, etc.etc. There are tangable things at stake here. Groups rarely cause disturbances over purely moral issues, abortion being the exception to this generality. There have been gays since the begining of time.

Hey lets get a thread going on abortion now that's one you can take sides on without financial benefit getting in the way.

Here's some food for thought.... I just got back from night service at my church, and it was ironic that this topic of being gay or lesbian came up. We were informed that a local school district this Wednesday will have a day of silence for gay and lesbians. :mad: This is what happens when we stand aside and say it doesn't affect me so I won't worry about it. So these kids are being FORCED to have gay and lesbian "silence day" shoved down their throats when they probably don't understand it at all. It's very sad and disturbing that this school board is going through with it.

I can't imagine living life saying that something is ok if it does not affect me. That is ridiculous. That is how animals think, not sentient human beings. Besides, your life position will change over time and your "personal" situation changes.

Wake up folks! Gay marriage today and tomorrow it will be OK for a 55 year old man to be married to an 11 year old boy on the grounds that curremt laws dicreminate. Don't laugh, this defense has already been tried.

agreed.


Now to throw a little tireburner on the subject. Homosexual's are gay!!!



-Josh, aka the tireburner

i am not hating, but i just want to throw this out there, when a gay couple can -- naturally produce a baby?? fine- bwahahaha, but in the meantime, i really could care less what they do!!, it's thier own prison, lol. :D :D :D :D :D

Jill, I read your article on RHC, and didn't read anywhere in it that young, impressionable kids were being forced to do anything against their wishes. I did read where students of all ages, through college, were choosing to support the issue. I guess it just goes to show how the same words can be interpreted so differently.

Hi Jim, long time, no see! :)

Personally, I find this whole topic rather scary. Marriage, while a religious union to some, is a legal union to everyone else. As long as it involves legal ramifications, religious opinions should remain just that; opinions.

I used to feel the same way as most people do these days. In fact, I was even worse. I actually hated gay people, or at least I thought I did. It took me actually meeting a few, and becoming excellent friends with one, to realize how stupid I had been.

I have never met a gay person that "chose" to be gay. I've met several that wish they weren't, but there's nothing they can do about it, including therapy. The funny thing is they each came from different backgrounds and environments, too. I learned a lot by becoming good friends with a gay guy. I learned that the world is a very insecure place. I learned that if you're not gay, being around someone who is isn't going to change you. In fact, if you are secure in your sexuality, nothing is going to change you. It's not going to change your kids, either. I also learned that it wasn't "gay" people that I hated, it was the stereotypical flamboyant behavior that so many seemed to embrace. The idea that just makes me laugh, however, is that being gay is a choice. If you really believe that, then you've obviously never been good friends with someone that happens to be gay. But, for the sake of argument, lets say that particular opinion is 100% correct. Every single one of us woke up one day, and said 'hmmm, I guess I better decide if I'm gonna be gay or straight'. Well, I never had to make any choice because I've been straight as far back as I can remember. Do you remember making that decision? Still, let's say that's correct. So what? If they are over 18, it's their right. We don't have to like it, but just because we don't like it doesn't give us the right to make it illegal for them to be married. It is discrimination. Discrimination against someone that's gay is no different than discrimination against someone that's black. Or anything else, for that matter. Besides, how is it going to affect your life? What in your world will be different as a result? The AIDS argument is pretty weak, because married couples rarely cheat, and if they don't cheat, they won't be able to contract or spread AIDS, do of simply being gay. In that case, the whole AIDS argument should actually be in favor of gay marriages.

Now, the idea of a couple of guys physically getting together still makes me sick, and I haven't hung around my gay friend when his boyfriend is around. That would make me uncomfortable simply because it's repulsive to me. But regardless of my feelings about it, I do believe they have as much right as anyone else to marriage. If the idea offends you for religious reasons, then gather with your congregation and have a group hate, but don't try to justify religious beliefs getting any further into the law books then they already are.

BTW, my understanding of the legal issue at hand is that they are constitutionally guaranteed the same rights. It's those opposed that want to "change the laws", and pass amendments, not the other way around.

All I can say is I truly wish that the same thing will happen to you that happened to me, and you become good friends with someone that's gay. You'll be shocked that you were ever able to feel the way you do now. Really.

Differing opinions aside, it was good to see you again, Jim. I hope your wife is well, and life is treating you fantastic!

Take care,
~Chris

Chris the school by me that this is affecting is Plainfield school district. This Wednesday in that district those students will go to school, and not be taught a single thing. These aren't college students, and the majority of them won't be high schoolers, they'll be grade school/middle school. They will sit in the classrooms the entire day in silence. That is forcing them, they are not choosing. The article I posted was a general one for the state on the issue. These students are 10 years old?!? They have no idea what homosexuality really is! We can't teach the bible in schools, but we can teach why Adam is screwing Steve!

Yea yea, that's right. The school board is forcing kids not to talk for 7 hours.:rolleyes: Yea sure. 5-10 mintues yea..........but no way the whole ******* day. There did you hear this at? The beauty parlor?



-Josh, aka the tireburner

Yeah the lady almost messed up one of my nails when she told me this. WOOOO close call! :rolleyes:

Gay Marriage
 

Originally posted by PKRWUD :

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Hi Jim, long time, no see! :)

Indeed.

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Personally, I find this whole topic rather scary. Marriage, while a religious union to some, is a legal union to everyone else. As long as it involves legal ramifications, religious opinions should remain just that; opinions.

I can argue against 'gay marriage' all day without ever mentioning religion, I only added that aspect of my position to my previous post as a form of 'full disclosure'. I find it rather 'scary' that 'marriage' - in all cultures all around the world - has been understood and defined (legally and culturally) as a union between a man and a woman throughout human history and suddenly, in 2004, in America, that simple and totally logical definition is now called 'discrimination' - by homosexuals. Sorry Chris, I don't buy it for a moment. That's simply a self-serving ploy to call marriage what it is not and never has been. Marriage is the cornerstone of any civilization and simply recognizes human biology and behavior. Homosexuals do not fit the definition of marriage in any way. The very fact that male homosexuals (the vast majority of the homosexual population) cannot reproduce should be reason enough to preclude their sexual relationships from being included in the definition of marriage. Saying that you 'love' someone isn't good enough, either. If that were the sole critera for marriage, pedophiles could marry children, sisters could marry brothers and some folks would marry their dog or cat. Yes, I'm exaggerating, but only to make a point as how shallow some of the arguments for so-called 'gay marriage' really are. Marriage is about families (97% of hetrosexual married couples have children at some point) and homosexual couples cannot naturally have children, although they may adopt in some states. Homosexualty is far from 'gay' and to socially and legally endorse it by re-defining marriage to include same-sex couples is a huge mistake and one a majority of Americans are not ready to make. That's why the homosexuals seeking to re-define marriage to include their couplings have to use the activist courts to obtain what they cannot obtain by votes. I believe that using the courts to impose a legal redefinition of marriage on the population (state or nation) is wrong and very un-democratic. It also shows the fallacy of the contention that homosexuals not being included in the definition of 'marriage' are somehow being 'discriminated' against. BS on a stick, in my opinion and that of many Americans who resent being forced-fed a re-definition of a major social construct that has stood for millenniums.

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I used to feel the same way as most people do these days. In fact, I was even worse. I actually hated gay people, or at least I thought I did. It took me actually meeting a few, and becoming excellent friends with one, to realize how stupid I had been.

Chris, we are not dicussing the personalities and relative niceness of homosexuals here and your sideways attempt to portray moral opposition to homosexuality as 'stupid' is unwelcome and unnecessary.

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I have never met a gay person that "chose" to be gay. I've met several that wish they weren't, but there's nothing they can do about it, including therapy. The funny thing is they each came from different backgrounds and environments, too. I learned a lot by becoming good friends with a gay guy. I learned that the world is a very insecure place. I learned that if you're not gay, being around someone who is isn't going to change you. In fact, if you are secure in your sexuality, nothing is going to change you. It's not going to change your kids, either. I also learned that it wasn't "gay" people that I hated, it was the stereotypical flamboyant behavior that so many seemed to embrace. The idea that just makes me laugh, however, is that being gay is a choice. If you really believe that, then you've obviously never been good friends with someone that happens to be gay.

Nice try at the 'gays are just like us' routine Chris but guess what? I HAVE worked with and been social friends with homosexuals and I also know an EX-homosexual (he lived the 'gay' life, 24/7 for over ten years). The "If you only knew some gay people..." ploy isn't going to work with me, although I'm sure it may be convincing to the more naive and inexperienced among us. I will stipulate right here and now that homosexuals are 'nice' people. Fair enough? That still doesn't give them the right to be legally 'married' to each other.

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But, for the sake of argument, lets say that particular opinion is 100% correct. Every single one of us woke up one day, and said 'hmmm, I guess I better decide if I'm gonna be gay or straight'. Well, I never had to make any choice because I've been straight as far back as I can remember. Do you remember making that decision? Still, let's say that's correct. So what? If they are over 18, it's their right. We don't have to like it, but just because we don't like it doesn't give us the right to make it illegal for them to be married. It is discrimination

I totally disagree with the 'discrimination' argument you and the gay activists put forth, as I've already pointed out. Homosexuals can do as they please but calling their sexual couplings a 'marriage' and giving it equal legal ststus with hetrosexual marriage is wrong. They do not fit the logical and biological definition for marriage. That is common sense, not discrimination.

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Discrimination against someone that's gay is no different than discrimination against someone that's black. Or anything else, for that matter. Besides, how is it going to affect your life? What in your world will be different as a result? The AIDS argument is pretty weak, because married couples rarely cheat, and if they don't cheat, they won't be able to contract or spread AIDS, do of simply being gay. In that case, the whole AIDS argument should actually be in favor of gay marriages.

AIDS has nothing to do with it. What you're claiming is that any minority group that says it wants something changed to suit them (like the definition of marriage) and doesn't get it are being 'discriminated' against. That's ridiculous. NAMBLA has been promoting the lowering of the legal age of (sexual) consent for years. That's a fact. Are pedophiles being discriminated against because legislators haven't complied with NAMBLA's demands? I think not. The 'discrimination' argument is lame, in my opinion and that of many other Americans who wish homosexuals no ill will but do not believe that re-defining marriage is inecessary. Homosexual couples can obtain all the legal benefits they need or want without the country redefining the legal meaning of marriage to suit their demands.

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Now, the idea of a couple of guys physically getting together still makes me sick, and I haven't hung around my gay friend when his boyfriend is around. That would make me uncomfortable simply because it's repulsive to me. But regardless of my feelings about it, I do believe they have as much right as anyone else to marriage. If the idea offends you for religious reasons, then gather with your congregation and have a group hate, but don't try to justify religious beliefs getting any further into the law books then they already are.

Once again, the canard that tries to equate logical opposition to homosexual marriage as some sort of religious-driven' hate'. That's a bogus argument and I, for one, am sick of it and resent it. We know you're a macho straight guy Chris and you don't have to tell us how repulsed by homosexual behavior you are to prove it but the lame attempt to connect religious rejection of homosexuality (not in all churches, by the way) with 'hatred' of gays is bull.

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BTW, my understanding of the legal issue at hand is that they are constitutionally guaranteed the same rights. It's those opposed that want to "change the laws", and pass amendments, not the other way around.

Homosexual activists for 'gay marriage' are attemting to use the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th amendment of the Constitution. It prohibits states from denying any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. In other words, the laws of a state must treat an individual in the same manner as others in similar conditions and circumstances and this is where the homosexual argument falls down, in my opinion. Homosexuals are not 'equal' to a man and a women entering into marriage for obvious, biological reasons. The Equal Protection Clause is not intended to provide "equality" among individuals but only "equal application" of the laws. Naturally, homosexual activists are trying to use the Equal Protection Clause to implement gay marriage by claiming that a state not allowing them to marry is 'discrimination' It's a circular argument.

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All I can say is I truly wish that the same thing will happen to you that happened to me, and you become good friends with someone that's gay. You'll be shocked that you were ever able to feel the way you do now. Really.

No, I won't Chris as I have had homosexual friends in the past, as I pointed out to you. They were all nice guys but that doesn't change my opinion that they do not fall under any logical definition of what constitutes marriage.

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Differing opinions aside, it was good to see you again, Jim. I hope your wife is well, and life is treating you fantastic!

Thanks for the good thoughts, Chris and differing opinions aside, as you said: I appreciate it. My wife is O.K. and life is treating me well enough but not quite to the fantastic level, yet. Thanks for the concern. :) Take care, yourself.

I am against gay marriage soley for religious reasons. I am against gay couples raising kids. The thought of gay people adopting really disturbs me. That is about as far as I want to go into it. Chris and Jim covered everything else.

To answer the theme question: I do NOT agree with gay marriage, and not primarily for the economical implications discussed here.

And, yeah, yeah, yeah, I've had gay friends and even met an ex-gay guy (really). I truly love and like the individual, but hate the practice, yes, it's possible and I abhor any type of hate-related crimes. (Good, glad we got passed that, now maybe some people on here won't label me as an ignorant homophobic homosexual hater) The practice of homosexuality is wrong (and anyone has the right to call that my worthless opinion if they want, that's your right). I will never ACCEPT the practice of homosexuality including gay marriage-- I don't care what is popular or becoming more acceptable. My feelings will never change about that. There are just some things that are absolute in life. Some things we cannot sit back and just tolerate any and all. Even when the majority (or minority) puts forth pressure, I cannot reason away, yield to, and make excuses in favor of what is wrong. Sorry, that's not the way I live my life. Seems like everyone's trying to be everyone else's best bud. Remember, just in case you've forgotten (and you can believe this or not, your choice) it is not the people I dislike, it is the practice.

Ooooh, look at the 2, a man and a woman. Look at the sexual organs, one goes into the other. Long story short, fertilization takes place, an offspring is born. Not hard to figure out, guys, whatever you believe about God (religion) or the lack thereof.

Now look at the animals.

Now look at the flowers.

They know the answers. They aren't confused about the issue. But humans the highest lifeforms are still so blind, so driven by lust.... so rebellious.... :( Professing to be wise, they become foolish.

Also, it is very sad to see the argument being used regarding something such as the progression of equal rights for religion, race, and sex, then applying it to the current issue, gay marriage. For every good thing, there is a counterfeit.

I'm not really here to try and convince anyone why the practice of homosexuality is wrong. That would require more than a dissertation (which I am not prepared nor eager to write here) in which certain truths would just probably be systematically ridiculed and reasoned away. What it really comes down to is what one believes about truth whether it is absolute or whether it is relative and how serious and willing one is to find out what truth is and where to find it (whether you are a pluralist, atheist, relativist, privatist, secularist or what have you).

BTW, not trying at all to put anyone down here (I hope you know I respect all of you, regardless of your opinions), but to say that it doesn't affect you is to be indifferent and plainly ignorant (the word's denotation, not connotation, is intended). Tons of ignorant people, when asked about the war in Iraq, drug wars, toxic chemical dumps, pesticides used on U.S. farms, mad cow disease in England (yeah, England....:rolleyes: ), government corruption, U.S. security policy, etc, etc, say, "I don't care, it doesn't affect me." Well, hey, it affects me personally. It affects me because it will affect my kids. It affects me because it affects my friends and family. It affects me because it affects this nation and the way it's operated and the laws which govern it. It affects me b/c it affects others and I care about the well being of others.

...and it's funny how people will bring up the AIDS issue when talking about gays, yet at the same time run around having flagrant premarital sex and never bring it up when it comes to heterosexuals... :rolleyes: Yeah......the gays aren't the only ones skewing the sanctity of sex and marriage.

But I can surely tell you one thing, though. I don't want any laying a FINGER on the constitution concerning this issue. If (when) they do, that will only be a beginning of the ruin of this nation (if it hasn't already begun).

.....put an atheist, a buddhist, a new ager, a politician, a teacher, a chimpanzee, and a pastor around a table in front of a public university audience and ask them what they think about gay marriage and the b4 anyone ever utters a word, the pastor is labeled as a biased religious fanatic. :rolleyes:

I hate everyone equally. Especially this neighbor woman that calls my house every day to report something, GET A LIFE. Not sure what her deal is.

What was this thread about again?

Do not confuse BEHAVIOR with something that seems natural. Just because someone can not help something, does not make that behavior RIGHT. Imagine a child malester who defends his actions by saying "I am born that way!".

We are HUMANS not animals and our bahavior is chosen by us. Homosexuals and Hetrosexuals CHOOSE their bahavior even if they can not help what are their desires.

I have two daughters. If they turned out to be gay, I would still love them just as much, but I would NOT support their bahavior.

As for people getting married for "obvious biological reasons", thats weak. Who was the last couple that you met (aside from those who did it for religious reasons because remember, this isnt a religious crusade) that got married just to have kids? I know many people who got married BECAUSE of biological reasons (she was pregnant which by the way is the worst reason to ever get married) but never some who got married FOR biological reasons. Many people get married as a show of their love and affection for one another. Others for financial reasons. Why are those reasons not good enough for everyone, just the ones who are doing the "morally right/politically correct" thing?

I agree with may opinions already posted, there are mutilple valid sides to this subject, however, this may have already been mentioned but I would like to throw this opion out....

There currently is a divorce rate of about 60% (last I heard) too many people are taking the word marriage for less than it is worth. What ever happened to the days were you only got married once! I have seen too many people get married as a mariage of convienince not one of true love for eachother.

As far as the gay marriage issue goes, I can understand why they would want to get Married... however I don't have to agree with it. As far as there sexual practices go, they can do what ever they want in the bedroom as long as I don't have to hear or see it. In my opinion marriage is between a man and a woman who would like to spend their life together not a man an a man or woman and woman... they can be life partners for all I care but don't desicrate the sanctity of the word marriage... let them call it homoiage or something....

just my 2 cents

Blocker:

Great post! I agree.

Also to add, those of us who are married heterosexuals need to be careful pointing the finger to much at "alternative" marriages with such a crappy sucess rate. What, 50 - 60% of all marriages fail? How many more are plagued with aldultry?

This whole "Gay Marriage" issue is a logical sequence of the failures of our society that have already begun.

One note prompted by the discussion about the high divorce rate: It's obvious that over the past 30 years or so, Americans have taken marriage far too lightly, thanks to a much more sexually permissive society, 'no-fault' divorce laws and what seems to be an ever-expanding aversion to taking personal responsibility for your actions. That needs to change. However, I fail to see why expanding the ancient and time-tested legal definition of marriage to now include same-sex couples is going to do one thing to strengthen the institution of marriage. On the contrary, it will weaken it by opening the definition of 'marriage' to include almost any sexual coupling that anyone wants to make. Renegade Mormons have already petitioned courts to allow them to marry multiple 'wives'. How can they be denied a marriage license once same-sex couples have been allowed to be called 'married' in the eyes of the law? They will claim to seek permission to 'love' whom they please and demand the right to be married legally - over and over again. How can you deny a marriage license to step-parents wanting to marry conscenting adult step-children? You can't and we won't.

You see, once you smash the barrier that reserves marriage for the obvious and natural mating of a man and a woman, anything goes - and it will. Gays poo-poo this and their advocates sneer at the idea but the fact remains that throwing out the natural and traditional definition of what marriage is and calling what amounts to a sexual perversion: 'marriage' will bring social consequences many will find repugnant. Too late, then.

I wasn't referring to the worldwide epidemic, I was talking about the Aids problem in this country. In this country it is Gay men and IV drug users that primarily get the disease. I've actually heard the statement "Statistically, a straight none drug using white male has more of a chance of getting breast cancer than HIV.". Not saying we don't have to worry about it, its still a threat, but its mostly the Gays and people sharing needles that tend to get it, in this country. Aids in this country

All the opinions are interesting. I personally don't care as long as its not forced on the general public. I really wish they would quit showing it on tv, it repulses alot of people. Gay pride?? WTH is there to be proud about?! Heeh, who cares?!

What does bother me is the fact that it is forced on the general public. There was a big fuss about a book a little 7yr old(or there abouts) girl that brought a book home from school. Her parents looked at the book the girl was reading and it was about 2 'Kings' that fell in love. The parents freaked out and refused to give the book back to the school, it made the national news. I think the book was called 'Two Kings' or something. I don't think elementary school students should be subjected to this. If I had a child in school and there were having a "Gay day", my child would not be in school that day. I'd probably take the day off and take the kid to the movies or something.

As far as it not being natural or seen in nature. Hmm.. No it really doesn't seem natural at all. Nuclear energy and electricity doesn't seem natural either. I'm not, by any means, condoning it but the arguement just doesn't hold up. You don't see black birds and blue birds mating yet this country is full of folks with mixed heritage. Its getting to the point where we can trace the family tree of our dogs better than our own.

I once would get irrate if I saw mixed couples or gays but I realized one day that it wasn't doing anything except to stess me out. I realized there was nothing I could do about it. Later I came to the realization that it made absolutely no sense what so ever to get upset about someone elses happiness.. something that didn't effect me.

I guess Joe said it best, live and let live.

Wow! You actually gave me a reason to reconsider my thoughts about it. I'd much rather see someone actually debate an issue than just get mad and toss around insults.. guess it only helps if someone is receptive to debate.

Umm... Mormons you say... I'm there!:D

Not Sure?
 

Umm... Mormons you say... I'm there!:D [/B][/QUOTE]

Dude, I just find out that you were married. Does your wife agree with this? If she did, you would be the "The Daddy". Gay marriage, not sure what to say on the subject. It is out there along with everything else. This world is turning into a very different world than what our parents had.

As cute as you are
 

If you look anything like you cartoon picture I am sure your nails are fine too.

MR 50 & xxxblakexxx:

- both have alot of insight and I agree with the whole down fall of society problems you have brought up.

MR 50:
- further to that society in general does not accept responsibly for it actions as a whole, working as a police officer I see this every day I go to work... frankly it sickens me.

Rbatson
- I totaly agree with the forcing it down our throats issue, If these same sex couple (again in my opinion) want to spend their lives together, there is nothing stopping them... They can co-sign for a morgage, sleep in the same bed, snuggle at night.... whatever. But lets face it, the reason this is an issue is because these same sex couples want the benifit of being married, they want to claim spousal discounts on their taxes, receive medical benifts through health care/work.. etc...

-as far as the nature comment, your right nuclear energy ect.. is not natural however things like electricity, nuclear power, the wheel, sliced bread... are all products of intelecual development... when it comes to issues surrounding sex there are more than just intelectual development at work, there is cultural taboos, values, instinct, chemicals in the brain... there are so many outside influences that affect us from the minute we are born that is extremely difficult to decipher what caused this person to do something so "un natural"

-with peoples reactions on this subject there is allways the people who will make a joke or insult... because of the subject and the senitive nature thereof one should expect the odd jab here and there....

again my 2 cents...

Exactly, I don't have a problem with it as long as it doesn't cost us anything. If somebody would come out with the figures on what it would cost the rest of us, then I think you would see the revolt on this. It would go kinda like this, "Not in this country pal!"

Wow dude, you hit it right on the head! You can't compare what people do with what happens in nature, that was my point. If marriage between two people of the same sex is immoral, hell they already are immoral. Do I care? I don't.

Actually, my comment on having a debate on a subject, instead of insults, was stemmed from another thread.

Re: Not Sure?
 

Why, what have you heard?:D

Re: Re: Not Sure?
 

I just heard you were married. I was talking on the chat line with a couple of members about this gay marriage thing. Of course, then we got on the subject of having more than one wife at a time. That would be cool to have a variety every night or so. One of the members said that you were married.

I really dont care who marries who. As long as everyone pays their dues and it doesnt affect society as a whole, then anyone should get married to whomever they please. It really doesnt affect people besides the hate for people who believe in something different which brings it to personal bias rather what is right or wrong. I dont think being gay is right but who is has the right to differ? Everyone does. Lets keep it that way and be American about it if you want to be equal since we are Americans and that is one of our stong beliefs, right?

James:cool:

Well, seeing as visiting a strip club is cheating, in her mind.. I would think not.:D

The mormon comment was a joke:p

Right on!

re
 

Well in my experience most women don't like their man going to a strip club. You can get by with it when you are just a boyfriend. When they are your wife, that is another story all together. You know thou, if I was married, I would not want my wife going to a strip club. It is alot of temps going on in those placing if you know what I mean. Anyway, I liked the mormon comment. I also heard that you lucked out with the wife. I heard she is a fox.:D

I'm not surprised
 

I see a couple of people from RHC here in this thread, and I have to say my opinion of them has gone up even higher than it was. I also think that some of the other posts in this thread offer some compelling ideas, but I'm surprised by the religious over tones, especially in a society thats all blow and no show.

If christian values actually meant anything to people our society would be a lot different than it is. For instance lets look at the morality and religious values that govern abortion in the US and the rest of the world. Here, just like the gay issue, we say one thing and do something entirely different. Murder is always wrong, and yet we do absolutely nothing to stop it. It's a woman's right to choose by law, right? But is it right? Do we not all turn a deaf ear to this issue? What the hell, it doesn't affect us, right?

How does that relate to the gay marriage issue? The same sex marriage issue is another example of something that we have extremely strong views on, and will likely do NOTHING about. We talk a good game, but ultimately only about 25% of the populace will vote on anything, dooming any Constitutional amendment, and the gays will get some form of union rights out of it.

This bothers me not at all, because it is entirely irrelevant. It does not affect me at all, just like abortion doesn't affect me at all. My relationship will not change, my taxes will not change, and my opinion will not change, but millions of people will have yet another reason to hate someone else in the name of some God that has been retranslated so many times that the original message is nearly gone now.

My little brother is gay. He's been told to his face time and again that he's going to hell for his sins. I firmly believe he'll have a LOT of company. We all talk a good game, but there are damned few people anywhere on this infected mud ball that live up to their professed beliefs.

Beliefs like love thy neighbors as thy self, judge ye not lest ye be judged, and my favorite, all shall stand before God and know him. There are going to be some very suyrprised people I think when they finally meet God, and it won't just be the gays and lesbians getting called on the carpet for sinning. Religion and religious intolerance have caused more wars and bloodshed than any other reason in history.

From all this reading, I conclude that Jim (Mr.5.0) is homophobic. You sir attacked the subject with the upmost discust its not even funny. It proves your hatred for certain "types" of people makes you very biased and closed minded. You would fit in perfectly with the KKK. Your bible belt preaching, republican god fearing asz makes Jim Baker jealous in everyway. I try to understand your personal views and opinions but can't quite grasp the fact that you are closed-minded and can't see any other way except yours. Are you ever wrong? Wait don't answer that, I already know.

James:rolleyes:

******* hell (oh yea, cant write that here, lol).

People need to stop complaining like the world will fall over and we'll all be banaished to the depths of hades for not stopping the homosexuals.

Bottom line, aren't they people? It disgusts me when people debate the topic as if they aren't.

What we need to do is give them the option of a civil union that comes with as many rights as a marriage does. If they can find a church that will "marry" them, then let them have their ceremony in that church, but still call it a civil union.

Wouldn't that make everyone (except those who in their hearts want gays to all spontaneously combust) happy?

-Jonathon

Name-calling isn't debate
 

Originally posted by srv1 :

Quote:

From all this reading, I conclude that Jim (Mr.5.0) is homophobic

And I conclude that you are clearly unable to discuss serious issues honestly so you resort to juvenile name-calling in lieu of rational thought. Nothing new here, James.

Quote:

You sir attacked the subject with the upmost discust its not even funny. It proves your hatred for certain "types" of people makes you very biased and closed minded. You would fit in perfectly with the KKK. Your bible belt preaching, republican god fearing asz makes Jim Baker jealous in everyway.

Your asinine name-calling rant is as lame as it is pointless and simply demonstrates your lack of ability to even begin to discuss 'gay marriage' like an adult. Spare me the 'hate' and 'homophobic' crapola, James. Please. It's knee-jerk name-calling that gets you nowhere when dealing with grown-ups. My opinions on this issue are as valid as yours my friend. Your attempt to drag out all the negative (and irrational) accusations and associations you can think of in some desperate attempt to invalidate my opinion is borderline pathetic but sadly typical of what those who want others to consider them 'tolerant' and 'open-minded' usually do, demonstrating their hypocrisy for all to see. You simply attack my motives with no basis in fact, whatsoever. You call me names and think that's a cogent rebuttal? Maybe on the playground when you were five years old but not in the grown-up world we live in, James. Time to grow up, don't you think?

Quote:

I try to understand your personal views and opinions but can't quite grasp the fact that you are closed-minded and can't see any other way except yours. Are you ever wrong? Wait don't answer that, I already know.

Yeah, I see how hard you try to 'understand my personal views and opinions' by the stream of invective you aimed at me in response to my posts on the issue at hand ('gay marriage'). Real thoughtful analysis there, fella. Tell you what: give us all a break and drop the pretense of being 'open-minded'. You have an opinion on the issue that obviously is in direct opposition to mine. So be it, but don't try to feed anyone here the line that you are in any way 'open-minded'. Your mind is clearly made up up the issue - as mine is - and we disagree. Fair enough. Learn to accept that fact without unleashing a string of pejoratives at people you disagree with in the process of disagreeing with them. It's how serious grown-ups communicate, James. I suggest you consider Trying it sometime. You'll get farther.

Whoa Jim! Didn't you and mustangjohn just get done calling me a communist in another thread?

Don't get pissed and go anywhere either! I'm still trying to learn from you.

Jim, you're becoming a conspiracy theorist, and you sound scared. For the life of me, though, I can't understand why. You have nothing to fear, you know perfectly well that you can't turn gay because your neighbor is. You surely also know that no matter who else gets married, anywhere on the face of this earth, it couldn't possibly affect the marriage you share with your wife. So what are you afraid of? Why are you so bent on denying others what you, and many other folks have? You've built this up into an 'us versus them' situation, where they're plotting against you, trying to twart your happiness with their hidden agenda. That's so ridiculous, I have trouble believing you'd imply it. No one is trying to take anything away from you. No one is trying to infringe upon your rights. And the only reason the polls and opinions are the way they are is because no one started including homosexuals in their teaching of tolerance until very recently.

The only thing shallow there was the point you were trying to make. The odds are exactly the same that someone would do away with any age requirement for marriage whether gays can get married or not. Don't be ridiculous.

Your arguments are your personal opinions, and just don't make any sense, Jim, which is not like you. You chose instead to ad-lib my post, which was written in plain and simple English. There were no hidden meanings, no ulterior motives, it was just exactly what it was. I tried no "routines", and had no "ploys". Calling your friend an "EX-homosexual" is too funny for words. It's not a light switch under your hair that you can flip at any time. I can't even imagine any circumstances that would make me want to be gay, but with your logic, anyone could, overnight. Sorry, I don't buy that.

Have you read any of the other replies to this post? Don't even blame me for someone else's church telling them that homosexuality is a sin. The author of this thread was alerted to the situation at a meeting at her church. And I'm sorry again, Jim, but that was no "attempt" at anything. I'd prefer you read what I wrote, rather than turning it into some twisted interpretation of it. There was nothing inbetween the lines. This conspiracy thing goes deep with you, it would seem.

You said yourself that religion has nothing to do with this, which is refreshing to hear. Most of the arguments I've seen and heard against gay marriage revolves around someone's interpretation of their God, and what they felt was right and proper. I'm glad to see that you are past that, although that does shoot down most of the other peoples arguments in this thread. You also acknowledged that gay people are 'nice'. lol. I'm guessing that's your way of saying it's not their personalities, or their flamboyant behavior that keeps you objecting to them being allowed to marry. We both know that that would be blatant discrimination, though, so I'm not surprised. They have loud and obnoxious parades because they no longer feel they have to lie about their sexuality. They're proud of what they are. So are the Irish, every March 17th. So what? If you don't like it, don't go to see it. I do my best to avoid both.

I'm heterosexual, and I call it discrimination. And I'm not the only one.

You talk of a long history of marriages being between women and men, but you should also know that in many civilizations, older than ours, homosexuality was not only accepted, it was encouraged. The primary purpose for the union between men and women was for procreation, which brings us to another of your points. I don't recall ever reading where the ability to procreate was a requirement for a marriage license. If that's the case, there's a whole bunch of married couples out there who's license is null and void. And as far as the point of being natural, and of being anatomically compatible, I hate to say it, for many reasons, but gay couples have worked that out, too. There are many heterosexual couples that are no longer "naturally compatible", are they to be denied as well?

Once again, no, that's not what I'm saying at all. I don't know how to make it any more clear; EVERYONE should be entitled to the same rights and restrictions.

Any two legal adults, of sound mind, should have the same rights as any other adults of sound mind. And according to the US Supreme Court, in 1964, declared that the freedom to marry was a basic right of all Americans. The constitution protects everyone, not just the majority. When it comes to defining criminal offenses, the majority rules, but under no circumstances can the majority maintain a right while taking it away from the minority. If it's a right for you, it's a right for every other legal adult. At least that's the way it's supposed to be. That's what makes this country as great as it is; EVERYONE of equal status is entitled to the same rights.

IMO, the bottom line here Jim is you personally object to it, for whatever personal reasons you have, but your personal feelings don't justify denying the right of marriage to a gay couple. Everything you may or may not hate and detest about a gay couple being together is going to continue to happen, even in your neighborhood, whether we like it or not. All that is being accomplished by trying to deny the right of marriage to those couples, is denying them equal (not special) rights.

LMFAO!!! I have a weak stomach.. I have a problem with the smell of crap.. I can't even clean dog crap off the floor without gagging.. I guess I'm crapaphobic

I can live with that.. :D

Re: re
 

I couldn't care less, as long as she came home to me.


She is alot more attractive than she gives herself credit for..

Are you implying that this should be taught at a grade school level?

Re: I'm not surprised
 

If it means that much to you, stand up and take a stand.

I live up to mine, why don't you live up to yours? I think the problem you are overlooking is that this country is made up of many people of many different beliefs. Christianity may have been the basis but that doesn't mean that is the norm. Alot of people still do believe it and many believe something else.

You don't have to be religious to believe that...