getting pulled over

[Titan]

wow...jj, you think your town is bad, you should see where I live. I'm not stereotyping cops, but I've NEVER met a cop in this county that I liked. The ONLY police personel (I guess you could call him that) was the one I worked with for a community service project with a school club (yes...I was a high school geek...). The day our school's valedictorian was almost arrested for defending one of our friends (who happens to be Turkish = looks muslim) two weeks after the 9-11 bs, I was convinced that all the cops were redneck @ssholes (along with the rest of my hometown). They made her stand in the rain while he went on and on about NOTHING (oh, did I mention he called for back-up?). In the end, our parents (there were 10 of us there...so we had witnesses, credible, seeing as how we were the top ten in our class) filed a formal complaint and that cop is no longer on the streets. However, this incident should have never happened in the first place.

To all cops who don't take the power and the fact that they can hide behind a badge/gun for granted--my hat is off to you. However, to all the b*stards out there with nothing else to do but incite innocent behavior--you're no worse than the scum you haul down to jail.

[jj_jonathon]

Originally posted by mustangII460
Campus cops, geez, now there is a topic.

I can not say what goes through anyones head at any time. Why he stopped you guys only he and God knows.

I can say this for the UT Knoxville Campus Police. They are under equiped and poorly trained. I do not, nor does City Officers hold much respect for them. Campus police is usually a place to step from, into another job. A place to get your basics then leave, effecting the quality of sevice from them. Almost any officers from a City department with one year of experience or more, are over qualified for Campus Police. Does that surprise anyone?

Yes, a Frat party a block away can give a officer resonable suspicion to effect a stop. This will have to be articulated if a arrest is made. Did he stop you beacuse of the party, Who knows.

**NOTE*** Do not group me with Campus Security or police, whatever their called

I am not taking any of this personally, if I did, Id just be waiting at the end of ya'lls street in the morning with my radar

lol, youd drive to florida for that? id almos feel special..

the UF cops aren't too bad, theyre actually the city cops too...probably since this town is the college..heh...most of them only flash their lights at you if youre going a touch too fast or if your stopped in the wrong place...i think theyre more strick with the bicyclists sometimes ...i kind of admire the ones on campus here, they do a good job...especially since we have 46,000 students attending here, UCF has about 39,000...but they probably are strickly campus police...and i found out that there isnt a krispy kreme donut place within 3 miles and the dunkin' donutrs place was closed down a few months ago..probably cranky cuz they have no donut place at 1am :\ hehe

[mustangII460]

I think this thread will boil down to, some cops are good and some are bad. That can not be argued, atleast by me.

Good service is sometimes hard to get, whether you dial 911 or Domino's Pizza.

Sometimes we expect more from people than we should. I think expecting nothing short of the best in a officer, is a givin. Do not blame the untrained officer, but blame his department for putting him out there.

I do not do this job for praise or recognition. I do it because I can help people that have exhausted their every means. Their last option being me, is a load on my back I look forward to. Being a father,brother,friend,preacher,roll model is something very serious. What I say,do or imply, can effect someones life permentally and we can not take that lightly.

[Titan]

Originally posted by mustangII460
I do not do this job for praise or recognition. I do it because I can help people that have exhausted their every means. Their last option being me, is a load on my back I look forward to. Being a father,brother,friend,preacher,roll model is something very serious. What I say,do or imply, can effect someones life permentally and we can not take that lightly.

I wish there were more people just like you--having the same ideals and morals--in this world.

Sorry if I offended you before, but my town is known for its ignorance and imbreeding (how else could they be so stupid). I know I may have gotten a prejudiced view from only one source, so sorry if anything I said offended you.

[jj_jonathon]

Originally posted by mustangII460
Good service is sometimes hard to get, whether you dial 911 or Domino's Pizza.

lol, great quote...sad but true...the problem is that 911 mainly deals with life/death situations and domino's is just my dinner...so i wish that wasn't as true as it is :\

[manders]

Originally posted by jj_jonathon
In Florida, if you ask, they need to show you.

in Texas.... they HAVE to show you.... :yes:

[mustangman65_79]

Most of the cops back in Oregon are real cool, every now and then u get that @sshole or stupid cop, most ended up in the State police side. Most of the County Cops are cool.


Now here's a car we woundn't mind being pulled over in.

[SVOCOP]

I'll have to agree about the notion that some cops are good and some are bad, it just depends on where you are. I have to say that at least everyone on this post isn't stereotyping cops as all being bad and are looking at individual incidents. I hate when someone learns I'm a cop and then looks at me like I've got the plague or something.
The main reason you have such a wide variation in quality of officers is that law enforcement is not considered a "profession" in society. Most agencies may require some kind of higher education, but most require a minimum of a police academy and nothing else. I love my job and I could do anything I wanted for a living. It would be very easy for me to go back to college and get my Masters degree, but I am satisfied with what I do. I work at an agency with close to 100 deputies and I am only 1 of 4 with a 4 year degree. When people start to pay officers what they are worth, they will have better candidates to choose from. BTW, I have a really cool tape of me chasing(and catching) an 86 Mustang GT at 130 mph for 11 miles. It was scary and I'll never do that again.

[mustangman65_79]

Originally posted by SVOCOP
I'll have to agree about the notion that some cops are good and some are bad, it just depends on where you are. I have to say that at least everyone on this post isn't stereotyping cops as all being bad and are looking at individual incidents. I hate when someone learns I'm a cop and then looks at me like I've got the plague or something.
The main reason you have such a wide variation in quality of officers is that law enforcement is not considered a "profession" in society. Most agencies may require some kind of higher education, but most require a minimum of a police academy and nothing else. I love my job and I could do anything I wanted for a living. It would be very easy for me to go back to college and get my Masters degree, but I am satisfied with what I do. I work at an agency with close to 100 deputies and I am only 1 of 4 with a 4 year degree. When people start to pay officers what they are worth, they will have better candidates to choose from. BTW, I have a really cool tape of me chasing(and catching) an 86 Mustang GT at 130 mph for 11 miles. It was scary and I'll never do that again.

I hate it too when ppl say that all cops suck. In the Af, we have Sp's. Some are really dumb(doesn't take much to be one, most of the dumbest ppl are sp's, when they flunk out of something else, they can choose to be sp's.) But when friends base all sp's on one or two, that makes me mad because I have a lot of good friends that are so.


So, where is this really cool tape of yours?

[SVOCOP]

The tape is at my house. Too bad the best chase I ever got into, my tape had run out and I was enroute to meet my LT who had a new tape for me. It lasted 17 miles and we drove through fields, around houses and ended when he couldn't make a turn and ended up in a deep puddle of muddy water. Too bad I ended up in the deepest part.

[silver_pilate]

I've been pulled over on "investigative stops" before. I was driving the Mustang home from work about 10:00 at night in the middle of nowhere. An DPS in a pick-up pulled a U and got right on my tail. When we passed, I didn't notice the markings, so I had no idea he was an officer. I hadn't done anything wrong up to that point. In fact, it was a rare occurance that I had actually followed the suggested speed for this long, slow curve. Anyway, the po-po stays on my tail...right on my tail...for about 3 miles.

He eventually backed off to about 2 cars back as I was coming to my turn. Now I'm not stupid. I'm not going to pull up to my house in the country late at night with some strange pick-up following me after obviously turning around and tail-gaiting me. So when I turn onto the road to my house, I mashed the pedal.

Nothing severe...no squeeling tires, no fish-tails, didn't even break the speed limit. I just left him in the dust. When he turned the corner he saw me long-gone and cranked his lights, thinking that I'm running from him. I pulled over directly in front of my house (only house for at least a mile) and he comes up and asks for the usual and tells me he pulled me over for crossing the center stripe when I turned the corner. Of course, that is complete nonsense as there is no way he could have seen it from his location. I just got a warning.

Anyway, my point is this. If you want to pull me over on an investigative stop, DO IT. DON'T fly up on me and tail-gate me for miles. DON'T pull me over and make up some lame excuse. Just freakin' pull me over and say something like, "We've been concerned about potential drunk drivers and drug activity in your area, and I just wanted to talk with you." Don't make up some bull story.

Anyway, that's my take on that aspect.

--nathan

[jj_jonathon]

i was profiled one night coming back from my gf's house back home (driving the old foxbody gt)...i was doing the speed limit, saw a bunch of cops sitting around at the bowling alley as i drove by, about a mile down the road i see light roarin up on me, then i saw two more sets of lights roaring up beside him, they slowed as they came to my rear, lined up like a caravan, stayed for a sec (running the plate prolly) and pulled me over with all 3 sets of sirens blaring...scared the SHlT outta me! lol...this was about quarter to 1...the officer asked for my license...i handed it to him shaking...i asked "i wasnt going that fast was i?" (sincerely)...he didnt reply....i said "you guys must be bored tonight to have this many cops pull me over"...still nothing...he asked where I was coing from ...i said my gf's house, he asked if we had had a fight (lol, riiiight...never have with her)...he said they were looking for a mustang like mine (black was all) because someone had supposedly thrown someone out of a mustang that night...i was like "wow, like mine? its a droptop with a saleen wing and cobra hood??...oh and by the way, the cars blue"...that was the end of it...they had nothing on me...so i was able to go...its just odd cuz i drove that stretch (small town) of about 10 miles at least 4 times a week at that exact time most of the summer...i guess they finally got tired of seeing me drive by...lol

[Unit 5302]

MustangII460, and any other cop who happens to be flying through this topic, there is a lot here that ticks me off.

First off, people using their lawful rights should not be treated with disrespect. Somebody asking to see your radar if they know you're lying about the speed is a good thing. It keeps cops and departments way more honest if they know they can't get away with pulling people over for garbage. If you give somebody no reason to ask, and they still ask, they're not calling you a liar, they're just making sure you're doing your job. So why are you upset about it? If you're doing your job, you don't have to worry about it, and it just gives police a BETTER reputation if they're all forced do do a better job. Wouldn't you like it better if more people gave your profession the respect it deserves? I know it makes me feel a lot better to know the officer knows that he's dotting his i's and crossing his t's. It makes for less people wrongfully charged, and for those who are rightfully charged, a swift kick in the nuts from the scales of justice.

Second, the judge should never, ever side with a cop because they are a cop. I'm sorry, but it's directly against this country was founded on. Innocent until proven guilty. If it comes down to an officers word against an accused, and nothing else, the accused should win every single time. That's what the law was designed to do. The burden of proof is supposed to be on the prosecution, and if you think otherwise, you should be ashamed of yourself. You should have no more pull in court than a janitor. Present the facts, not the profession.

I agree there are good cops, and bad cops. They are people, not machines, and you're gonna have those who are better naturally, and those who've made themselves better consciously. In my mind, a police officer showing a grudge towards a person who's just making sure his rights are protected is an officer who needs to look at the situation from the other person's shoes, and re-examine the principles this country was originally built on.

There are times you get busted for stuff you shouldn't, and there are times you don't get busted when you should. The idea behind our system of law is that nobody should be busted when they don't deserve to be, even at the cost of getting away with stuff you shouldn't sometimes. People who do break the law with regularity are bound to get nailed. Even if it's a minor deal like light speeding.

Rev, have you ever been to court, and seen how effective a lawyer is? LOL. Forget it. The lawyer is expensive as hell, and the chances of him getting you off from something like that is almost nil. I've seen probably 20 trials of that nature, and the ONLY thing the lawyer is good for is plea bargaining, for the exact reason MustangII460 is so confident in court. Illegal, and inexcusable bias. If the cop shows, you're screwed, unless you're really good, and the cop does very poorly (unlikely since they are schooled on how to present their case in court).

I'll also tell you prosecutors do really respect a person who does their homework and presents it to them professionally. You're likely to get the same deal a lawyer will get you if you're bargaining. I know from experience. There are instances where lawyers know each other well, in that case, you may get off a little lighter by using a lawyer.

Bottom line is a cop generally does what he's told to do by his commanding officer, who gets his agenda from the mayor/legislators and/or city council, who get their perogative from the people. The people don't want to be harrassed, and they don't want illegitimate tickets given out. They want convictions for violators, and the innocent not bothered. If the officer decides he knows best by going against what the community wants, he's likely to get the boot or at least a re-alignment of priorities from his superiors. Knowing, and exercising your rights is the most effective way to make sure the good guys get respect, and the bad ones get the boot.

Being a police officer is supposed to be a profession, not a power trip. Here's a toast to those who exercise that belief!

[jj_jonathon]

Unit: Very well put I must say. You're absolutely right that it's unjust, but it's unjust up the line, so the innocent sometimes get dragged in and there's no sense in fighting the government. Which sucks too...

[mustangII460]

UNIT 5302,

Thought id fly in again.

Para #1 Other than you flaming me, where did I disrespect anyone or treat them unjust? If you want to change Tennesse law, move here and vote. My deparment can adopt a right to see the radar unit, but they do not. The side of the road is not the courthouse, respect or not. When did I say I was upset?

Para#2 Judge not siding with officer? Did you realize what you just said? I am a (Professional Witness) Not only do I testify for the state but also in civil matters unrelated to persons I have traffic with. Not giving the tie to the officer would be deadly. I could see where a janitor might not be able to testify in a traffic violation, questioning radar. But that same janitor would be called as a proffessional in his field of service. I do not see a point there.

Para #3 I can not change the constitution.

Para #4 I just do not understand anything in it.

Para#5 What you call inexcusable bias, again goes back to Para#1 I am a professional witness, not only on radar but many other areas also. I do agree a lawyer in traffic court is probibly a waste of money. It is easier and cheaper to ask the any officer what might happen in court. Remember this is traffic court and not General Sessions or Circut Court. You can appeal your ticket to the higher court for a trial, but if you lose, you pay alot more court cost. I have yet to go to any trial on a citation.

Parar#6 I can go with that. May vary a little with different lawyers etc..

Para#7 Generally true. Although I have the last word on what I do. Nobody can change my decision except the court. People in the city can change what type of persons the department hires, but almost never do. I guess you mean ( Exercising your rights) you mean voting? and not asking about radar.

Last line: Thanks for the toast.

I entered this thread to shed light from "The other side." I do not think anyone on this site claims to know everything about anything. I simply stated what goes through MY head and others close in my job, for everyones benifit. I never post anything flaming anyone else for what they know to be truthful to them, somthing not wise for me to do. When anyone starts flaming they tend to lose any credibility in what their argument is about. Thats why I do not flame, I really do not care about getting flamed.

I do not get ticked off at anyones opinion or beliefs. I simply take it in to figure out people, kinda fun.

The best part about it, I can feel the love

[SVOCOP]

You tell him 460......... Of course the court takes the side of the officer when he performs his legal duties. If the court didn't, then anyone could say "no I wasn't speeding" and have it dismissed. Thats the way it works. If you don't like it, move somewhere else and see if you like it any better. The U.S.A. is not perfect, but it is the best DAMN country in the world period. People are so quick to condemn officers but think about this.....if you advertised on all of the major networks, newspapers and other media outlets that there was going to be a five day period without, let's say, lawyers or doctors or teachers. At the end of those 5 days the country would still be the same and for the most part, life would continue as normal. Now do that with the police and it would take years for society to recover from just a few days where everybody could do pretty much what they wanted to. We are overworked, underpaid and underappreciated, but we do it because someone has to. When you lie in bed at night sleeping without a care in the world, there are people like me who don't know you from Adam who are putting their lives on the line so you can enjoy your God given freedom.
As for the radar issue, that is pretty much standard everywhere you go. Officers are trained to estimate speeds and use the radar to confirm their opinions. If someone is certified to estimate speeds using radar, then they don't even have to have a radar in the car.....period. It is also a safety issue. When we pull cars over, we do not know what is going to happen. We have to rely on our training and gut instincts to make sure we go home to our familes at the end of our shift. It is up to the individual officer as to whether he asks the driver to step back to his car or remain in the drivers seat. If you allowed drivers to determine whether or not they can exit their vehicle and come back to a patrol car, then you are in effect taking away one of our safety tools. When you get pulled over the officer has the final word when it comes down to issues of safety. The roadside is not a courtroom and there is no reason to stand on the side of the road or make an officer stand there any longer than needed with traffic whizzing by because you don't agree with what he says. I hope I this will help you understand why some things are done the way they are.
Sorry for the rant, but I feel we are always the target of unjust criticism. If we act on something we are labeled "gung ho" and if we use caution and something happens because we didn't act fast enough then we are accused of not doing our job. The old damned if you do, damned if you don't syndrome. Sleep good tonight.

[Hammer]

Sorry, But I've got to do something rare here... Side with Unit...

I am a (Professional Witness) Not only do I testify for the state but also in civil matters unrelated to persons I have traffic with. Not giving the tie to the officer would be deadly.

Of course the court takes the side of the officer when he performs his legal duties. If the court didn't, then anyone could say "no I wasn't speeding" and have it dismissed.

I don't see how there can be a "tie" in a factual case. You either have definitive evidence that a law was broken or you don't... (hence the radar...)

If the court always sides with the officer, even though there is no evidence to support it besides an officer saying there was a violation, what keeps a "bad" cop in check? (Not saying that there are any here.. )
Are we saying that even a "good" cop cannot make a mistake or miscalculation because they are trained? I don't feel to comfortable with that assumption.

If you can't provide evidence in court, I'm sorry Unit is right.
Innocent until PROVEN guilty. Not just because Officer so and so said so....

No evidence, no case. As true in traffic court as it is in circuit court.

[Unit 5302]

As per standard overly defensive officers automatically assume I'm flaming you. If you're a good officer, there is no reason to be upset cause you know you've done your job. You don't know what the other jerk-off police officers may be doing, do you? You can't relate, just like I can't relate to somebody who does a crappy job. All I know is I'd rather those who are doing crappy jobs be let go or at least have pressure put on them to do a good job. If that means I have to perform, and prove I'm doing something occationally, then so be it.

Being a professional witness is an interesting assumption. You're not a professional witness. You're a professional police officer who's duties happen to cross over to testifying. Does that mean a running back on a pro football team who throws a pass is a professional quarterback? You are trained on how to present your side of the story while on the stand as a witness, but it's not what your main job duty is.

How about if you pull over a lawyer? He's a far more professional witness than you could ever hope to be. Does that mean his word is better than yours? How about a true professional witness who makes a living testifying (ie expert witness)?

A persons word is a persons word, and officers DO make mistakes. Obviously, you feel an officer cannot possibly make a mistake as though they are robots, and their word should therefore be law, but I have a tendency to believe an officer should have to back up his case in court with more than "he was speeding because I said so." What makes you think you're more honest or able to determine what I was doing at a given time than I am able to know my own actions? On just about anything more important than a traffic citation the prosecution needs more evidence than just an officer saying "he did this." They need some evidence of what was done, how it was done, and establishing a picture of how it all went down. It's called making a case. Your radar evidence, your speed measuring devices historical accuracy, your FCC license and training to use the equipment, conditions during the use of the equipment, and your testimony all serves as evidence. Along with the ticket, and your write up and/or notes on the event. Without this it would be nothing more than your word against his, and you should lose in that scenerio every single time, as our legal system is setup.

SVOCOP the LAWS have ruled what you are bound to do. Not your personal belief laws put you in harms way. If you feel your job is too dangerous, you can pick a different profession. I never stated I think this country is a bad place to live. I do think it's getting worse all the time because of government sticking it's nose into peoples lives where it doesn't belong, and partially because they've decided police should be used to enforce norms. I don't give police a single shred more credit than anybody else. It's your profession, and chances are, you are less skilled than a 4 year college graduate punching buttons on an office keyboard. Just because you chose your profession doesn't give you some sort of medal of honor in my opinion. You do your job, and I hope you do it well.

I also don't like the argument police officers are underpaid. If you're not paid enough, change departments. Officers here start at $50,000 per year, plus. In the Phoenix area they hire at up to $38,000 per year, which equates to about $50k a year here. There are good paying police jobs in a lot of areas if you care to look, and you qualify. Overworked, underpaid, and underappreciated? Please. Insert egotistical, arrogant, and on a power trip. If police were off for 5 days, the national guard could be used or the army. Regardless of what you think, most people are honest, and we have no need for police officers to keep an eye over our shoulder. If the investment brokers all quit work for 5 days the economy would crash. If the telecommunications industry went on strike for 5 days and service was shut off, the country would completely malfunction.

My personal opinion about police officers are they are more often than not, underqualified, poorly trained, and are self-righteous. People earn my respect with actions, not with a title. If you don't make any money, you've either decided to stay where you're at because you like your job, you haven't been looking, or you're in the above description and don't qualify for better pay/hours/benefits at another location.

[mustangII460]

SVOCOP... If ya come over the mountain I'll by ya a beer.

I also conceed in this thread Its just a waste of my time and those reading it.

[SVOCOP]

Amen brother..........it's not worth it.