got a 90 stang

[Herby]

ok i just got this 1990 Mustang with 5k miles on the rebuilt 5.0 and 18k on the rebuilt 5 speed and paint. I paid $5500 for it and i new it was a bad idea. Its not like i put alot more money into it but it took a long time to figure it all out.
i needed to replace:
Mass air flow sensor
idle air speed sontrol
EGR valve
put a new water pump in
replace the valve springs with the right ones to match the cam
fuel punp relay
Fuel pump regulater
and i now have the coolent temp sosore coming and i just tested my throttle posioning sensor and that is bad also. Well the guy did put a little cam in it and he has the intak and super 40s for muffler, but NO header yet so if any body has anyheaders for a 302 i would be glad to buy them.

[Mr 5 0]

I sold my 1990 Mustang 5.0 - that I had owned since new - last year. I got $2000. for it. It needed paint and a little bit of body work but nothing extensive.

It was all original with a few minor upgrades (3.55 rear, 'Pro 5 0' shifter, HD clutch, CAI, 3-row radiator, etc) and had 125,000 original miles on the odometer. I lovingly maintained it and had a record of everything I ever did to the car, including oil and filter changes every 2,000 miles. It ran great and had no real 'problems'.

However, as I told the happy buyer (a nice guy in his 30's who once had a Mustang 5.0 and always regretted selling it), he was buying a (then) 15-year-old car with 125k on it and as such, there was no way I could guarantee that nothing might go south a week or a month after he took it home. Many major components were factory original, including the 5.0 engine, the T-5 transmission, the alternator, starter, catalytic converters and many other expensive parts that had held up fine for the 15 years that I owned the car.

The buyer understood all that but the fact that I was the original (adult) owner, was selling the car relatively cheap and that I had maintained it so well and had records to prove it persuaded him to take the risk, whatever it might be. I never heard from him again. I take that as a good sign.

Point being that you have a 16 year-old Mustang and unless it had been throughly rebuilt, (and you had paid a lot more than 5500k for it) you will likely have to replace some parts. It's basically an old car. As long as the engine and body are sound, it's not a bad deal if you have the car you really want. Try to enjoy it.

[Herby]

I am very happy with the Mustang that i bought. i guess i am just to happy for myself that i could do that on my own Mustang and i just turnd 18. This car has the smoothes motor that i ever owned, and that fact it has t-tops put in and a 5 speed makes it my car i always wanted. The fact i am working two jobs just to pay for it makes it hard to work on it but it is deffently worth it for this car.

[Mr 5 0]

Originally Posted by Herby

I am very happy with the Mustang that i bought. i guess i am just to happy for myself that i could do that on my own Mustang and i just turnd 18. This car has the smoothes motor that i ever owned, and that fact it has t-tops put in and a 5 speed makes it my car i always wanted. The fact i am working two jobs just to pay for it makes it hard to work on it but it is deffently worth it for this car.

I'm glad you are enjoying your Mustang. However, your first post gave the impression that the needed repairs had soured you on the car. I was just trying to point out that any 1990 vehicle - Mustang, Honda or Rolls Royce - will naturally need some work at some point. Things wear out and I know how expensive replacement parts can be.

The fact that you are both pleased with your 'Stang and proud of the fact that you can work on it is to be commended, Herby. You seem like a responsible, mature 18-year-old who appreciates the great Fox Mustangs. That works for me!

[RBatson]

I can't believe you actually sold your car. Then again, I can't believe you actually voted for Bush either(actually I have a hard time believing anybody did).

[Mr 5 0]

Originally Posted by RBatson

I can't believe you actually sold your car. Then again, I can't believe you actually voted for Bush either(actually I have a hard time believing anybody did).

Over 62 million Americans also voted for President Bush so it was not exactly a rash act. Kerry was a total phony. I do not regret my choice but I don't really wish to debate it, either. Bush won. Let it go.


I owned my beloved Mustang LX for over 15 years and it gave me much pleasure but life goes on and things change. Although my Mustang ran great, it had fairly high (actual) miles, the dark red paint was faded out - as was the otherwise flawless red cloth interior - and it had a few (minor) rust spots. I had a choice of dumping quite a few thousand dollars into it (as my friends advised - talk is cheap when it's not your money) to bring it back up to near-original condition - or sell it before something big went that I would have to repair just to be able to sell the car. Like me, it wasn't getting any younger and I figured that a major component might go at any time.

Besides, my transportation needs had changed, big-time, and after owning a long series of 'muscle cars', including a '71 Camaro that I rebuilt from the ground up back in the '80's and turned into a very sharp, quick car, I was growing bored with stick-shift V-8's that were fun to drive but that I almost never got to 'let out' anymore and that also got poor gas mileage in an era of relatively expensive gas. I couldn't even use it in winter (5 months of the year where I live) and I was also weary of paying the insurance surcharge every year just for having a 'performance' car. In short, it was 'time', as the negatives of owning the Mustang had began to outweigh the positives for me.

I sold it relatively cheap, I know, but I didn't want to deal with the aggravations of people picking my 'baby' apart day after day just to get the price down, and frankly, I wanted a quick sale. I got just that...the third call was from the guy that actually bought the 'Stang'...and he was a Mustang lover that planned to dump some cash into the car. He looked it over very, very carefully but my 15-year detailed maintenance record and my unabashed enthusiasm for the car seemed to sell him. He took a very perfunctory test drive (never got on it at all) and came with his wife, their 10-year-old kid...and cash, all in hundred dollar bills. We made a deal in an hour and he drove it home that evening. I never heard from him again (he lives 40 miles away) but I trust that he is enjoying the Mustang.

I used the Mustang sale money as a down payment on a (then) brand new, 2005 Honda Civic EX SE sedan, which, compared to the 'Stang, is boring to drive, granted, but it fits my needs at this time, is of excellent quality, gets great gas mileage and holds it's value like almost no other car. I never bought into the animosity some Mustang owners have for Japanese cars. The Mustang I owned and my Civic are two totally different cars with two totally different purposes. I don't even try to compare them as it's pointless and they both have their respective virtues. However, I plan to leave the Civic stock...no 'rice'.

I may own another Mustang in the future, strictly as a 'toy', but probably not, unless my finances drastically improve. They are getting pricy. I only paid $13,600. for my '90 ($20,600. in today's dollars). It would be real hard to pay $25,000. or likely even more for a new Mustang, even if I could afford it. Meanwhile, the Civic does the job, looks quite decent and will return a good portion of it's original cost when I trade it in, probably in 4 or 5 years. I can deal with those realities just fine.

In any case, I'll always be a Mustang fan. I still hold fond memories of long drives, some exciting races and the many appreciative looks I got from driving my '90 LX 5.0 between 1990 and 2005. The drive home from the dealer and the first few days I owned the LX were like magic. So was my first race (I won). You don't forget that stuff. The fact that the 'Stang held up beautifully over a decade and a-half with almost zero defects was awesome and a testament to it's quality. I'm very glad that I owned it and also glad that I sold it to a Mustang-lover before it got tired and junky...which could have happened. It has a good home. I have good memories. All is right with the world.

[Unit 5302]

Sad to hear you sold it, to be honest.

Unit 5302
Skyman
Mr 5.0

None of us own a Mustang or are even looking for one anymore. I honestly didn't expect that I would ever see that day come. Well, I'm not sure I ever expected to not own a Mustang again when I bought my '87GT back in 2000. 4 years later, there were no Mustangs in the garage, and really no regrets that there weren't any. My Explorer had more versitility by far, which made it easy to haul motorcycles, snowmobiles and furniture. Skyler went for the ultimate driving experience that he couldn't shake off from his previous BMW experiences, and Jim, you chose the practical route.

Like you, I don't forsee the Mustang owning a spot in my garage again based on the economics of it all, but I hold a great fondness for the fox body in particular. What I find particularly interesting is how much they feel like an old friend when I'm riding in one. My 87GT was the last car that I really took out and drove for no reason other than to drive. I put 60k on the 87GT, and 40k more on the 88GT that came some years before it. Adding in the 4 banger LX's I had, I've spent just about as many miles inside the fox as you have with the 125k you racked up.

As the years have passed, I noticed that there were far fewer places where I could run the Mustang through the gears until it was almost never when I sold the 2002GT in the autumn of 2003. I'm not sure if I've lost the passion for cars or whether or not it's been replaced by a bunch of other interests, but I am certain that I haven't lost passion for the memories I have accumulated driving my Mustangs.

[RBatson]

Originally Posted by Mr 5 0

I do not regret my choice but I don't really wish to debate it, either. Bush won. Let it go.

Tell us the truth, you sold the mustang because you could get that darn W 04 sticker off it. J/K I don't see the point in a debating it again, neither one of us will change our minds. I doubt I'll ever be able to let it go though. It literally makes my stomach churn when I see him speaking on TV. $5 gas before 2008, wait and see.


Glad you're happy with the Honda, good luck with it. Alot of mustang/camaro guys don't like them because they make a nuisance of themselves on the street(trying to race). Personally, I'd just rather try and keep Americans working by buying American products.

[Mr 5 0]

Originally Posted by RBatson

Tell us the truth, you sold the mustang because you could get that darn W 04 sticker off it. J/K I don't see the point in a debating it again, neither one of us will change our minds. I doubt I'll ever be able to let it go though. It literally makes my stomach churn when I see him speaking on TV. $5 gas before 2008, wait and see.

No, minds won't be changed at this late date but I can almost sympathize with you on one level. Back in the '90's, I felt the same revulsion every time I had to see that phony Bill Clinton and hear his hick drawl lying to Americans about his latest scandal.

Look at it this way: time passes, things change. I support Bush but he'll be history in less than 3 years. Then you may get Hillary, the commie. Oh joy.

Glad you're happy with the Honda, good luck with it. Alot of mustang/camaro guys don't like them because they make a nuisance of themselves on the street(trying to race). Personally, I'd just rather try and keep Americans working by buying American products.

I have absolutely no intention of ever racing anyone in that Civic. It's reliable, economical transportation - and that's all.

I don't feel an obligation to throw away my hard-earned money to buy an unreliable, poorly-made U.S. car in order to allegedly 'keep Americans working'. I am not that wealthy. Besides, most of the Asian carmakers, like Honda, employ U.S. workers anyway, so Honda and Toyota are 'keeping Americans working'. Besides, my beater is a '93 Mercury Topaz, so I'm good.

[RBatson]

If you didn't like Clinton's southern accent then you probably really wouldn't like mine. I've been told its kinda thick. Bush's lack of vocabulary is almost comical to me(what are they teaching in Harvard anyhow?). As far as Hillary, I wouldn't vote for her either. You still see me as left wing, I'm neither left wing or right.. I agree with views on both sides. I would vote Republican if I thought the canidate was a better choice. Actually, I have voted Republican before. Bush simply is not presidential material, but we're not going there, right?

I never figured you would race the Honda, we both know that. Its just transportation, I understand that. I actually had to drive 2 foreign cars before I could afford an American made vehicle. You aren't the only one that feels that foreign cars are a better deal, there are alot of folks that feel that way. Personally, I don't. The way I look at it is that every American job depends on every other American job. Like spokes in a wheel, take one spoke out and it puts more stress on the others. I will literally spend hours shopping to find a product that is made in the good ole USA. I'll see a T-shirt I really like that is made in India and buy the one next to it that I don't like quite as much because its "Made in the USA" (It really pisses me off that Levis aren't made in America anymore). While its true that foreign products do employ Americans, they don't employ as many and the dollars go to strengthen the power of another country. The local Honda dealership does infact employ American salesmen. The new Ford you just bought may have parts made in Mexico or Canada or even been assembled there. The fact is that its an American company and when they buy more land and hire more construction workers.. they are owned by Americans. I really don't like the thought of Asians or anyone else) owning our land. I like the thought of Americans working but hate the thought of foreignors owning our land. I will not buy foreign products as long as comparable American made products are available(and yes I'll pay more for them). I'm not a wealthy man either, I'm working on it but.. not yet. Still, I will not sacrifice my ideals for wealth.

[Mr 5 0]

Originally Posted by RBatson

If you didn't like Clinton's southern accent then you probably really wouldn't like mine. I've been told its kinda thick.

Accents can be dropped. I once had a thick 'New Yawk' accent but learned to lose it and speak clearly. Anyone can.

Bush's lack of vocabulary is almost comical to me (what are they teaching in Harvard anyhow?).

President Bush graduated with two degrees from Yale. I don't think his lack of articulation is 'comical' but it is very unusual for a politician of his rank to be inarticulate. This is probably a result of the fact that Mr. Bush did not enter politics until he was almost 50 years old and never had the need to develop a good speaking style. Too late now, I guess. In any case, he mananged to beat two presidential challengers with better speaking skills and is the President of the United States. I think most folks understand President Bush and see his lack of verbal 'skills' as down-to-earth, not phony or contrived.

As far as Hillary, I wouldn't vote for her either. You still see me as left wing, I'm neither left wing or right.. I agree with views on both sides. I would vote Republican if I thought the canidate was a better choice. Actually, I have voted Republican before. Bush simply is not presidential material, but we're not going there, right?

What's the point? As I said, I loathed Bill Clinton but by 1997, following his easy re-election, I had accepted that he was president until 2001, whether I liked it or not. I simply decided to get past my revulsion with him. It made life much more pleasant. That's why arguing over President Bush's virtues or faults is a waste of time at this late date. He's the president (until January, 2009) and all the grumbling and mocking him you or anyone else can do won't alter that fact. Why bother? I see your views here as very leftwing, even if you do not, but I'm glad you are not so far gone as to consider voting for Hillary Clinton. There may be hope for you, yet.

I never figured you would race the Honda, we both know that. Its just transportation, I understand that. I actually had to drive 2 foreign cars before I could afford an American made vehicle. You aren't the only one that feels that foreign cars are a better deal, there are alot of folks that feel that way. Personally, I don't. The way I look at it is that every American job depends on every other American job. Like spokes in a wheel, take one spoke out and it puts more stress on the others. I will literally spend hours shopping to find a product that is made in the good ole USA. I'll see a T-shirt I really like that is made in India and buy the one next to it that I don't like quite as much because its "Made in the USA" (It really pisses me off that Levis aren't made in America anymore). While its true that foreign products do employ Americans, they don't employ as many and the dollars go to strengthen the power of another country. The local Honda dealership does infact employ American salesmen. The new Ford you just bought may have parts made in Mexico or Canada or even been assembled there. The fact is that its an American company and when they buy more land and hire more construction workers. they are owned by Americans. I really don't like the thought of Asians or anyone else) owning our land. I like the thought of Americans working but hate the thought of foreignors owning our land. I will not buy foreign products as long as comparable American made products are available(and yes I'll pay more for them). I'm not a wealthy man either, I'm working on it but.. not yet. Still, I will not sacrifice my ideals for wealth.

I think your inflexible attitude toward 'buying American' is a bit overdone but at least you have the integrity of trying to put your money where your mouth is. Most foreign car companies have large American workforces - both in the factories and in the executive suites - but ultimately, the profits do end up in Japan , Germany or wherever. Foreigners own a lot of U.S. land but this is a global economy and U.S. companies also own land in other countries.

I don't share your deep aversion to foreign-made products and I don't have the time, patience or money to seek out U.S.-made goods in every purchase I make. I don't really think it is a issue that I need to personally crusade over but as you do, then it's your right to spend your money as you see fit.

[RBatson]

Originally Posted by Mr 5 0

Accents can be dropped. I once had a thick 'New Yawk' accent but learned to lose it and speak clearly. Anyone can.

I really don't see the need to drop it Jim. I'm not ashamed of where I originate.

Originally Posted by Mr 5 0

What's the point? As I said, I loathed Bill Clinton but by 1997, following his easy re-election, I had accepted that he was president until 2001, whether I liked it or not. I simply decided to get past my revulsion with him. It made life much more pleasant. That's why arguing over President Bush's virtues or faults is a waste of time at this late date. He's the president (until January, 2009) and all the grumbling and mocking him you or anyone else can do won't alter that fact.

We'll see if he makes it to 2009, I'm beginning to think he won't.

Originally Posted by Mr 5 0

I see your views here as very leftwing, even if you do not, but I'm glad you are not so far gone as to consider voting for Hillary Clinton. There may be hope for you, yet.

I just realized that I really don't care how you view me... maybe we should just keep it to which air filter works best. Lord knows we've had this conversation a few time.

Originally Posted by Mr 5 0

I think your inflexible attitude toward 'buying American' is a bit overdone but at least you have the integrity of trying to put your money where your mouth is. Most foreign car companies have large American workforces - both in the factories and in the executive suites - but ultimately, the profits do end up in Japan , Germany or wherever. Foreigners own a lot of U.S. land but this is a global economy and U.S. companies also own land in other countries.

I think more people should try to buy American made products. What else would you expect from a dumb hick?

Originally Posted by Mr 5 0

I don't share your deep aversion to foreign-made products and I don't have the time, patience or money to seek out U.S.-made goods in every purchase I make. I don't really think it is a issue that I need to personally crusade over but as you do, then it's your right to spend your money as you see fit.

It is my choice and its a damn shame there aren't more out there that feel the same way.

[Mr 5 0]

Originally Posted by RBatson

I really don't see the need to drop it Jim. I'm not ashamed of where I originate.

I never said you had to be "ashamed of where you originate", just that it is possible to lose a regional accent, be it Noo Yawk, New England, Southern or whatever...if you care to do so. Some do, many don't. So what?

I was originally referring to former President Bill Clinton and his Arkansas drawl, which I thought sounded somewhat exaggerated, as he was a well-educated, much-traveled man who must have known exactly how he sounded but wanted to keep the 'Aw Shucks' mannerism in his voice for effect. I thought that was lame.

We'll see if he makes it to 2009, I'm beginning to think he won't.

Don't count on that. Impeachment is the leftwing's wet dream but they have no case for it. Their never-ending accusations and charges of wrongdoing on Bush's part always come down to nothing when actually investigated. Bush is not Clinton, but the Democrats haven't figured that out yet. They may not like him, but Bush is not evil, a liar or any of the otherr absurd things they constantly try to charge him with. It's mostly a combination of political grandstanding and wishful thinking on the Democrats' part. In addition, I do not see the Democrats gaining a majority in congress anytime soon and without that majority, they have zero chances of getting an impeachment bill anywhere. Don't take the fevered 'impeachment' talk too seriously.

I just realized that I really don't care how you view me...

Congratulations! You've just discovered the secret of successfully exchanging messages on the internet without going nuts. What some anonymous person living far away from you, who doesn't really know you at all, may think about 'you' (really, your politics, not you, personally) is basically meaningless and hardly worth worrying about. I have had hundreds of internet arguments over politics and have been called every name in the book and insulted more times than I can remember but it all comes down to nothing, as the person(s) doing the on-screen insulting are strangers to me and have absolutely no impact on my life in any way. That they can't handle any opposition to their political ideas and have to get nasty about it, as it's easy to be a bully when safe behind a keyboard, as we all know, is their problem.

maybe we should just keep it to which air filter works best. Lord knows we've had this conversation a few time.

Fine with me, Rick. However, if you choose to post what I may consider outrageous comments about political matters or anything else and I happen to read them, it's still very likely that I will respond in a way that you will not care for. As you have the freedom to post what you wish on these issues, I (and anyone else who cares to) has the same freedom to call them ridiculous and to say why.

I think more people should try to buy American made products. What else would you expect from a dumb hick?

Well, if you choose to call yourself a 'dumb hick', I can't stop you, but I never called you that. You are apparently reading far more into some of my comments than I ever meant. Lighten up.

It is my choice and its a damn shame there aren't more out there that feel the same way.

Perhaps, but as a majority of products we all use, especially smaller items...including clothes...are now manufactured overseas, it has become very difficult to find and buy 'Made in USA' products exclusively, which is why many of us have just about given up trying to do so. It's a global economy and today, buying American-made products exclusively has become near-impossible for the average consumer.

From computers to cars to clothes, it seems that everything is either manufactured or assembled abroad. Oh, that TV, shirt or appliance may have an old-line American name on it, but turn it over and you'll see 'assembled in China' or some other far-away land. I gave up trying to buy only American-made goods a long time ago. Too much hassle and often, no matter what the name brand, it was made outside the USA. That you can manage to live a modern lifestyle and buy American-made products exclusively is great. I envy you in some respects and, as I stated, I respect your integrity in this matter. I still try to 'buy American' when possible, but it isn't easy and it isn't often that I'm successful in doing so. If you are, more power to you.

[Mach 1]

I think it would be impossible to buy only products made in america. Everything is made overseas, well, almost everything. How exactly do u do it? Do u not own much?

[RBatson]

Originally Posted by Mach 1

I think it would be impossible to buy only products made in america. Everything is made overseas, well, almost everything. How exactly do u do it? Do u not own much?

You're right, that's absurd. I never said I buy American made products "exclusively", Jim did. What I did say was; "I will not buy foreign products as long as comparable American made products are available(and yes I'll pay more for them). " That's one of the reasons I just dropped the discussion, its just more of Jim's "hyperbole".

[RBatson]

Jim, I'm going to make this last post on this subject then I have nothing further to say. I don't know why you like defending the corporate crooks in America and want the hard working "Americans" to share the blame for a failing company. Toyota makes vehicles in the USA and rewards their workers comparable wages and benefits. Its corporate greed that is ruining American companies, by cutting back on quality in favor of better profit margins, that is to blame. All the while they reward themselves more and more. http://baltimorechronicle.com/2005/1...yStudies.shtml You want the American workers to share in the blame for a failing American company while praising the quality of Japan's product which is very possibly built by some of the very same people, that's not a logical argument. Neither is loathing Clinton's accent and finding GW's acceptable, even if it is littered with broken english. You can't have it both ways, it just shows how strong your conviction is to your political views. If Clinton couldn't form a complete sentence then I wouldn't have thought he was presidential material either. Back to the subject, Its been said that China is the #1 capitalist country in the world with the USA being second at this point. India and Japan are loving capitialism, as well. They are offering a good product for a fair price. I guess the recent admissions, from board members, to buying the foreign companies products is a testament to that. They are beating us at our own game. Meanwhile, the more Americans that buy foreign products the less Americans are employed and in turn the less that can afford to buy them. Make sense? It does, trust me.

Do you still feel the price of fuel is acceptable? I doubt you would find many that agree with you, if you do. http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/060416/exxon_pay.html?.v=6 Meanwhile you find alternative energy(enthanol, wind and solar power) "devoid of reality" even when presented with a link to a town that is powered by wind power or the fact that a country is practically energy independent by producing and using ethanol. "Devoid of reality" when presented with pictures(I took personally) of huge windmills on a farm in Minnesota. *Sigh* There is no argument, just trendy words like "hyperbole" and phrases like "looney left wing" that prove absolutely nothing but your dismay for anyone that opposes your political views. Here is another little link for you.. http://www.admworld.com/naen/mainstory.asp make that two.. http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/060417/inves...anol.html?.v=2 It's going to happen whether you choose to believe it or not, kinda like when I said(before the election) that if GW was re-elected the price of gas would hit $5 by the end of his tenure. It's on its way. We have two individuals with a strong history in the oil industry yet you can't make a connection between them being in office and the surge in petro. Oil companies contributed big to Bush's campaign but that has nothing to do with the price of fuel? Its no accident that Exxon's(XOM) market cap surpassed General Electric's(GE) making it the highest valued company in the world. http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...w_x.htm?csp=34 BTW, You say Bush is worth $26 million.. I'm going to assume you know what you're talking about.. $26 million isn't alot of money to people in his position. Heck, we had CEOs pulling down as much as $244 million last year.

Another thing, Bush did lie. I saw it myself. When trying to rally support for the Iraq war he said he had proof that Iraq had weapons, recently he admitted he didn't. I didn't realize it until after the war had started but he also broke the treaty his father signed with Iraq. We were not to invade Iraq unless the UN inspectors said they could confirm that Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, they never did say that but in-fact said they didn't. When I realized that I felt betrayed. Something that apparently a majority of the 62 million Americans that voted for him are beginning to feel, judging by his job approval ratings. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...n1350874.shtml

The ones that think things are going great just haven't been affected yet. I suspect this summer, with the rising price of gas, that many more will be affected. Maybe when those with decent jobs can't afford to fill their tanks it will begin to sink in. Maybe those tax cuts will help.. Those making over $26mil a year will save approx. $500,000 while those making less than $50k a year will save around $10. Hmm... maybe not.

[Mr 5 0]

Originally Posted by RBatson

Jim, I'm going to make this last post on this subject then I have nothing further to say. I don't know why you like defending the corporate crooks in America and want the hard working "Americans" to share the blame for a failing company. Toyota makes vehicles in the USA and rewards their workers comparable wages and benefits. Its corporate greed that is ruining American companies, by cutting back on quality in favor of better profit margins, that is to blame. All the while they reward themselves more and more.

Rick, I made it quite clear that I 'blame' both executives and workers for the U.S. auto industry's failures. Why do you insist on seeing only what you want to see in my comments?

General Motors is financially sinking and some of the debt is from the high retirement and benefit packages they are obligated to pay retired employees...people who no longer work at GM but, as retirees, draw money from the company, often at a fairly high rate, including ample benefits. I think that a relative handful of high executive salaries hardly makes a dent in a billion-dollar business but thousands of highly paid retirees who now contribute nothing to the company does.

You want the American workers to share in the blame for a failing American company while praising the quality of Japan's product which is very possibly built by some of the very same people, that's not a logical argument.

I disagree. Everyone is familiar with the often rueful jokes about a 'lemon' Ford or Chevy that was supposedly 'built on a Friday/Monday'. Who do you think was building those 'lemons'? The executives? Hardly. However, the same executives were approving the use of shoddy materials and stinting on quality control, for years, for which they deserve the blame you are so eager to cast at them. Japanese auto manufacturers make great efforts to find out what customers want and what they like or dislike about the cars they buy, then they respond to that feedback. There is not enough of that in the U.S. car companies who still seem to think that because it says 'Chevrolet' or 'Ford', people will buy whatever they sell. As I stated previously, there is enough blame all around and no one is 'pure'.

Neither is loathing Clinton's accent and finding GW's acceptable, even if it is littered with broken english. You can't have it both ways, it just shows how strong your conviction is to your political views. If Clinton couldn't form a complete sentence then I wouldn't have thought he was presidential material either.

Oh for goodness sake, Rick. Get over it, will you, please?

George W. Bush is admittedly inarticulate - as I previously stipulated - but what you see (and hear) is what you get, unlike Bill Clinton, who was all show, including the 'good 'ol boy' accent. Talk about hyperbole...President Bush is more than capable of forming complete sentences and your absurd, cartoonish depiction of the man is simply ridiculous and obviously based on YOUR political convictions, rather than reality. His ad-lib remarks as he stood on the rubble of the Twin Towers in Manhattan on September 12, 2001 were as moving and striking as anything Boy Clinton ever uttered.

Back to the subject, Its been said that China is the #1 capitalist country in the world with the USA being second at this point. India and Japan are loving capitialism, as well. They are offering a good product for a fair price. I guess the recent admissions, from board members, to buying the foreign companies products is a testament to that. They are beating us at our own game. Meanwhile, the more Americans that buy foreign products the less Americans are employed and in turn the less that can afford to buy them. Make sense? It does, trust me.

U.S. manufacturing is alive, and doing fairly well, considering the global competition. What you and others who bemoan 'disappearing' manufacturing jobs always overlook is the fact that as equipment and worker skills improve, productivity increases and so, hours worked and in some cases, jobs 'disappear'. Also, manufacturing is extremely cyclical. You can see it drop in one quarter and then rebound in the next, as it always has. In addition, America has moved away from it's former manufacturing base and now leans more toward service industries. In any case, our economy is booming. Don't believe everything John Kerry or the DNC tell you, Rick. They lie.

Do you still feel the price of fuel is acceptable? I doubt you would find many that agree with you, if you do. Meanwhile you find alternative energy (enthanol, wind and solar power) "devoid of reality" even when presented with a link to a town that is powered by wind power or the fact that a country is practically energy independent by producing and using ethanol. "Devoid of reality" when presented with pictures(I took personally) of huge windmills on a farm in Minnesota. There is no argument, just trendy words like "hyperbole" and phrases like "looney left wing" that prove absolutely nothing but your dismay for anyone that opposes your political views.

Rick, if you truly believe that these 'alternative sources' for power you so admire are fool-proof and basically a slam dunk, then why are they not gaining popularity? I don't see anyone taking wind and solar power seriously. Why not? How come only you seem to think they are the energy source of the future? Could it be that wind and solar power is not feasible over the long run? Did you even consider that wind and solar power are simply too fragile to depend on, year-round? These easy-answer panceas are always more apparent than real but the leftwing never stops trying to sell them. Apparently, you've bought into it all. How unfortunate.

It's going to happen whether you choose to believe it or not, kinda like when I said(before the election) that if GW was re-elected the price of gas would hit $5 by the end of his tenure. It's on its way. We have two individuals with a strong history in the oil industry yet you can't make a connection between them being in office and the surge in petro. Oil companies contributed big to Bush's campaign but that has nothing to do with the price of fuel? Its no accident that Exxon's(XOM) market cap surpassed General Electric's(GE) making it the highest valued company in the world.

Sorry buddy, but that really is just left-wing, anti-Bush hyperbole and hysteria with not a sincitilla of evidence to support the accusation. Show me evidence of some dark conspiracy by Bush and Cheney and the oil companies to fleece the U.S. population and we'll talk. Until then, please give it up....and stay off those left-wing websites that feed you false and misleading information while they demonize the president and his administration 24/7.

BTW, You say Bush is worth $26 million.. I'm going to assume you know what you're talking about.. $26 million isn't alot of money to people in his position. Heck, we had CEOs pulling down as much as $244 million last year.

Your point? Is it that George W. Bush isn't rich enough for you?

Get serious. President Bush's assets - all 26 mil - are in a blind trust, and with the many political enemies Bush has, even a hint of his doing anything improper (i.e. manipulating the price of oil, which is impossible for him to do, despite your ridiculous conspiracy theories) would be jumped on instantly. Do you really think that the vehemently anti-Bush media would not crucify Bush and demand his immediate resignation? Trust me Rick, they would.

Another thing, Bush did lie. I saw it myself. When trying to rally support for the Iraq war he said he had proof that Iraq had weapons, recently he admitted he didn't. I didn't realize it until after the war had started but he also broke the treaty his father signed with Iraq. We were not to invade Iraq unless the UN inspectors said they could confirm that Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, they never did say that but in-fact said they didn't. When I realized that I felt betrayed. Something that apparently a majority of the 62 million Americans that voted for him are beginning to feel, judging by his job approval ratings.

I think you are grasping at straws here, and it's sad. Iraq violated that 1991 treaty when they refused to allow weapons inspectors into Iraq, beginning in the late 1990's. Once that happened, the treaty was null and void, thanks to Saddam Hussein. Saddam certainly did have WMD's, he just didn't have 'tons' of them when we invaded in March, 2003. They have been found - but only in small numbers. Still, he had them, just as the president stated. Bush did not lie and saying he did, again and again and again, with no evidence, simply ruins the credibility of those making that false accusation.

Frankly, when I see all these hysterical rants on the internet about 'Bush lied' I have to wonder why the bitter congressional Democrats have not started impeachment proceedings. Could it be because they have absolutely no evidence of all these alleged 'lies' Bush told. Hmmmm?

The ones that think things are going great just haven't been affected yet. I suspect this summer, with the rising price of gas, that many more will be affected. Maybe when those with decent jobs can't afford to fill their tanks it will begin to sink in. Maybe those tax cuts will help.. Those making over $26mil a year will save approx. $500,000 while those making less than $50k a year will save around $10. Hmm... maybe not.

Rick, your negative attitude based on sheer class envy is unfortunate. However, I will not waste my time attempting to dissuade you from it, as you obviously feed off of it and enjoy playing the poor, blue-collar 'victim' of the 'evil' Bush administration. I think that attitude is uninformed as well as pathetic - and exactly what the Democrats want you to think - but it's yours to live with, if you choose.

Say hello to Al Franken for me.

[RBatson]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060506/...licans_ap_poll

I'm not the only one, Jim. I think anyone reading your post and then re-reading mine will find were the logic lies, not just "hyperbole". I'm glad you are doing so well in your retirement years while the working class are finding cuts in benefits that they EARNED as part of their compensation. Folks, like me, are finding they will have to work an extra 10 year to retire(I have to work 43 yrs to retire now instead of 33) and many are having to rejoin the work force(after retirement) just to afford health care. Exxon just awarded their ceo a $400mil retirement bonus(quite a dent in a Billion dollar enterprise) while their pension plan is underfunded. I find your comparison of the average American worker and the CEO receiving a $400 million bonus not only repulsive but disgusting.

As far as alternative energy, that you find pleasure in dismissing, you need to look no further than Bush(the man you support so much) to see that its not only viable but necessary. I find it quite interesting that his plans for alternative energy don't take effect until a year or 2 after he is no longer in power(I also find it very interesting that OPEC says there is no need for oil to cost as much as it does but.. it does).

In other words, anyone reading your posts that actually has a mind of their own can easily see right through it. Its more than just trendy words and "hyperbole". You will undoubtly continue to sway those that can't think for themselves but you won't sway me. I'm living in the trenches and hoping for the best. Apparently you have no idea what the middle class, working American, is going through.

Oh and Jim, stay away from those ridiculously extreme right wing websites... unless it benefits you, which apparently it does.


PS I think mustangworks needs a political forum. It would beat hijacking threads in the lounge, imo.

[Mr 5 0]

Originally Posted by RBatson

I'm not the only one, Jim. I think anyone reading your post and then re-reading mine will find were the logic lies, not just "hyperbole". I'm glad you are doing so well in your retirement years while the working class are finding cuts in benefits that they EARNED as part of their compensation. Folks, like me, are finding they will have to work an extra 10 year to retire (I have to work 43 yrs to retire now instead of 33) and many are having to rejoin the work force(after retirement) just to afford health care. Exxon just awarded their ceo a $400mil retirement bonus (quite a dent in a Billion dollar enterprise) while their pension plan is underfunded. I find your comparison of the average American worker and the CEO receiving a $400 million bonus not only repulsive but disgusting.

As far as alternative energy, that you find pleasure in dismissing, you need to look no further than Bush (the man you support so much) to see that its not only viable but necessary. I find it quite interesting that his plans for alternative energy don't take effect until a year or 2 after he is no longer in power (I also find it very interesting that OPEC says there is no need for oil to cost as much as it does but.. it does).

In other words, anyone reading your posts that actually has a mind of their own can easily see right through it. Its more than just trendy words and "hyperbole". You will undoubtly continue to sway those that can't think for themselves but you won't sway me. I'm living in the trenches and hoping for the best. Apparently you have no idea what the middle class, working American, is going through.

Rick, what happened to your 'last word' on this stuff? So much for your credibility. I suspect that the only 'last word' you will ever accept is your own, so I'll give that to you and promise not to respond to the next post you make on this thread in order to end this fruitless exchange. How's that?

I don't know where you got the idea that I'm 'in my retirement years'. Not from me. I'm no spring chicken but I'm not ready for the retirement home just yet. Gimme a break! I earn what I have and I don't appreciate silly little lectures based on incorrect premises from a guy with a chip on his shoulder against anyone who isn't employed as a manual laborer. You are clearly suffering from class envy and apparently like it that way, as it gives you something to whine about and blame 'business' (and President Bush) whenever things don't go right. Hardly a viable bais for a political philosophy but one many on the left seem to share.

Bush's alternative energy proposals are generalized and recognize the need to get away from our dependence on oil. However, that is far easier said than done, something you seem to ignore, as if we can just convert to wind power or whatever with no real problem. Hardly.

The cost of oil is partly determined by the oil futures market, which is volatile. It's a complex subject that has been covered here before. You must of missed those posts but I don't have the time or the patience to rehash the issue all over again just for your personal benefit.

Rick, you seem to pride yourself on being some kind of middle-class 'everymen' with all your resentments and finger-pointing intact. I don't see it that way. Life is tough - but it's far less tough in America. If you cannot make a decent living and sustain yourself in a manner you feel is appropriate, I'm sorry. However, your eagerness to, in effect, bash the capitalist system and your longing for a guaranteed future is both naive and totally unrealistic. That kind of mindset also makes you vulnerable to leftwing, socialist fantasies of a governement-ordered Utopia where no has more than anyone else. Don't count on that because it hasn't happened yet.

You do have lots of baseless class resentment against 'big businesss' and management, as well as anyone making more money than you do. You seem to expect an employer to take care of you when you retire and frankly, that is pretty lame. I never expect anyone (but myself) to take care of me, now or ever. That's why we have 410(k) plans and invest. You want it all done for you and get angry when, 30 or 40 years out, things can change and the retirement isn't as you planned it. Rick, stop looking to usually temporary employers and the fickle government to take care of you. They will very likely disappoint you, which is why conservatives disdain them as providers for our, or anyone's, old age.

Oh and Jim, stay away from those ridiculously extreme right wing websites... unless it benefits you, which apparently it does.

Actually, the few conservative ('right-wing') websites I visit simply mirror my own views, which is why I don't spend much time on them, as they don't add much to my knowledge. The leftwing sites I've seen, however, tend to be vicious and hysterical and can't do much for anyone's mental health. They really should be avoded.

PS I think mustangworks needs a political forum. It would beat hijacking threads in the lounge, imo.

I am pleased to end this post with my favorite statement: I agree (but I doubt there is enough interest to jutify a separate 'political' forum).

[Mach 1]

R batson - its not a perfect world, or a fair life, get used to it and move on. Mr. 5.0 is right. There are many alternative stlyes of government, but the one in this country, although not perfect, is one of the better, if not the best ones available.