I hate it when this happens... *UPDATE*

PKRWUD · 09-09-2001, 04:18 AM

Capri306-
I spoke with Kenny Brown tonight and asked him the specific cause of this destruction, and he said it happened during a wreck. He came up quickly on a spun out car, and trying to avoid it, his wheel rolled over that of another car trying to avoid the stopped car, which launched him into an airborne spin. As he landed, his right rear tire wedged into the corner where the wall and the track meet, and it seized. Since the wheels are directly connected to the engine via the rear end (no transmission), this also stopped the engine, which was spinning at close to 8000 rpm's, instantly. The sudden stopping caused the crankshaft to snap on either side of the rod journal for cylinders 5 & 6.

Take care
~Chris

------------------
Retired Moderator
MustangNet

My site: JimPorterRacing

RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR

HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN. The best tool you'll ever have, and it's free !!!

smokedchevy · 09-09-2001, 05:09 AM

Hey Chris,

Do you know Kenny Brown? Is he the guy on the avenue with the tranny shop? We bought a 65 Belvedere from a guy and he said it was owned by Kenny Brown before. Have you seen this car before?

------------------
92 GT, 4:10 gears, centerforce clutch, 6# powerdyne blower, bbk h-pipe, flowmasters

[This message has been edited by smokedchevy (edited 09-09-2001).]

PKRWUD · 09-09-2001, 06:15 AM

I have known Kenny Brown for about 2 years, but only from racing. We used to run in the same class, but the team I work for now runs in the Senior Sprints. I believe he lives in Oxnard, and I'm 90% sure he has no affiliation with Brown's Transmissions, although he is well known around here. I have no idea about a '65 Belvedere, but I can ask him. What's on your mind?

Take care
~Chris

------------------
Retired Moderator
MustangNet

My site: JimPorterRacing

RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR

HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN. The best tool you'll ever have, and it's free !!!

Mach 1 · 09-09-2001, 12:17 PM

No transmission? Whats that all about?

Can you explain how this set up works and the logic behind it?

PKRWUD · 09-09-2001, 01:46 PM

Sprint cars, for the most part, race on dirt ovals that are 1/2 mile or less. They are powered by either 360ci or 410ci Methanol burning engines that obtain their peak power (650hp - 950hp) between 7000 and 8000 rpm. They are designed to be driven at WOT, and don't have the time or the need to be shifted. Their success is largely due to their gearing. Their drivetrain consists of the engine, a U-joint that mounts to the end of the crank on one side, and has a yolk on the other, a splined driveshaft, and a quick change rear end. The rear end has a one piece axle that attaches to both rear wheels, and has a ring gear mounted to it which connects with a forward facing pinion gear (mounted behind the axle). The pinion shaft and the drive shaft ends are both splined, and sit on top of each other, at the of the back of the rear end. Two matched gears are slid onto their ends, which make the final gear ratio, and allow for gear changes in less than 3 minutes. For example, the Sprint car I crew for has a 4.86 ring and pinion. Last night, the track conditions called for a 6.76:1 final ratio at the wheels, so I installed a matching set of quick change gears in the end, with a 32 tooth gear on the pinion shaft, and a 23 tooth gear on the drive shaft. Our track is a 1/5 mile oval, and with a 6.76:1 final drive ratio, that keeps the engine between 6k and 8k rpms around the entire track.

Below you can see a Winters quick change rear end. The polished plate with the anodized nuts at the rear is the quick change cover. If you draw a line forward from the bottom of that cover, you can kinda see the torque tube that covers the driveshaft.

BTW, if you've ever wondered why Sprint cars always have to be push-started, it's because they don't have starters. With no transmission, there is no flywheel, and thus, no ring gear for the starter to engage.

There are a few Sprints that have 2-speed trannys, but they are only used on tracks that are larger than 1/2 mile and usually paved.

Take care
~Chris

------------------
Retired Moderator
MustangNet

My site: JimPorterRacing

RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR

HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN. The best tool you'll ever have, and it's free !!!

[This message has been edited by PKRWUD (edited 09-09-2001).]

Rev · 09-09-2001, 02:38 PM

PKRWUD, then is it correct to say that there's no flywheel or clutch either? That would make for some fast reving which I would imagine is what is saught after in a sprint race.

Rev

------------------
'66 Coupe, 306, 300 HP, C-4, 13.97 e.t., 100.3 mph
1/4 mi.

[This message has been edited by Rev (edited 09-09-2001).]

Motorhead302 · 09-09-2001, 04:59 PM

It seems as though it's also safe to say that you know a gentleman named Kenny Brown who races sprint cars, and not the Kenny Brown of Mustang tuning fame, correct? Just trying to clarify, since he lives in Indianapolis, IN, and spends most of his time with his business there and running his Track Time racing schools.

------------------
95 GT, Pulleys, headers, off road, 3.55's, Tremec 3550, Cobra Clutch 14.4's @ 96mph before exhaust. Visit my homepage
95 Mustang GT: $13,000. Heads, Cam, Intake, etc:$3,000. Incon Twin Turbos: $3,500. Seeing the look on that Porsche owner's face at the next light: pricless.

PKRWUD · 09-09-2001, 06:02 PM

Rev-
You are correct, and yes, they are very fast reving. Really quite amazing vehicles.

Motorhead302-
You also are correct. This is the KennyBrown I'm referring to. Just happens to be a pretty common name (look in your phonebook). Smokedchevy and I happen to live in the same town, and I think he was also referring to this Kenny Brown. Sorry if there was some confusion!

Take care
~Chris

------------------
Retired Moderator
MustangNet

My site: JimPorterRacing

RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR

HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN. The best tool you'll ever have, and it's free !!!

[This message has been edited by PKRWUD (edited 09-09-2001).]

AtaxicStanger · 09-09-2001, 09:46 PM

One of my good friends raced sprint cars in Wisconsin. He mainly raced a reginal club but got into some outlaw races here and in Indiana.

If you haven't seen a winged sprint car thundering out of turn three, kicking dirt into the stands, and roaring so ******* loud that it actually SCARES you, every lap, YOU HAVEN'T LIVED.

TRY IT You'll LIKE IT

Al

------------------
95 GT, GT40 Aluminum Heads, Intake u/l, 9# Powerdyne SC, 65 mm FMS TB, 70 mm FMS MAS, 30 lb injectors, E303 cam, Hooker Super Comp equal shorty headers, H pipe, Flows, Nitto DR, MSD BTM, Adjustable FP reg, 255 fuel pump, Autometer gauge pod with Electric FP guage and Boost guage, a few other odds and ends

TJR · 09-09-2001, 10:17 PM

410 sprint cars RULE!

------------------
1989 lx notch
89,000 miles
bolt-ons,stock heads/cam
60'- 2.07, 8.90@78, 13.93@99

PKRWUD · 09-10-2001, 02:21 AM

AtaxicStanger-
You hit it exactly right! Standing outside turn 4 and watching those mothers fly into turn 3, you are convinced there is no possible way for them to make it without crashing! UnGodly fast!

However, those of us who run wingless Sprints would like to remind you:

Wings are for Fairies.

)

Take care
~Chris

------------------
Retired Moderator
MustangNet

My site: JimPorterRacing

RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR

HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN. The best tool you'll ever have, and it's free !!!

[This message has been edited by PKRWUD (edited 09-10-2001).]

smokedchevy · 09-10-2001, 02:24 AM

Chris,

I don't think that's the same Kenny Brown. They don't call him "Racer Brown" do they? The reason I ask is, we bought a huge tubbed and gutted big block mopar from a guy that lied his a## off. He said it used to be owned by Kenny Brown and it ran in the 9's. 11's I could believe, but not 9's. I just wanted to find out some more info on this car. We haven't run it yet, due to a lack of insufficient funds. We took it to the fairgrounds once, when they used to have the car show/swap meets, and ran into one of the original owners who owned it when he lived in South Dakota!! Talk about a coincidence. It turns out he never ran it either. I know it was a serious race car at one point because one of the ladder bars were busted and welded back together. It has a full cage and is completely gutted. I drove it on the street once and that's the fastest car I've ever been in. It has a full spool and can roast 29" x 18.5" MT's easily. Just wanted a little info. Thanks.

------------------
92 GT, 4:10 gears, centerforce clutch, 6# powerdyne blower, bbk h-pipe, flowmasters

PKRWUD · 09-10-2001, 03:00 AM

I'll hit up my buddy Jim. He knows everybody. He used to own Speed Center on Callens Road, but has worked at Hawaii Racing for about 5 years now.

Take care
~Chris

------------------
Retired Moderator
MustangNet

My site: JimPorterRacing

RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR

HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN. The best tool you'll ever have, and it's free !!!

Capri306 · 09-10-2001, 09:21 AM

WOW! Damn, I couldn't imagine the torsional stresses of stopping a high-horse engine like that! Well, I guess now we know. I figured it was something like a locked/spun bearing or a bad crank! So basically the whole engine is trash. Ugh, that'd make me sick.

At least the guy is ok I'm assuming after a wreck like that. Thanks for the update, PKRWUD. Much appreciated.

------------------
Capri306, Moderator, The Mustang Works Online
1979 Mercury Capri, 5.0L -- C4 -- 2.73
1987 Mustang LX Notch

PKRWUD · 09-10-2001, 12:49 PM

No sweat Capri! I love any opportunity to turn new people on to one of the most addictive forms of racing there is. I guess I am a speed dealer! Don't tell my P.O. !

Smokedchevy-
It is the same Kenny Brown, and now I know who you bought the car from. That guy (Brian) is the biggest liar I have ever met. Anyway, this is the email I got from Jim this morning:

"Yes, Kenny Brown is Racer Brown. Big lying Brian from Ken's Automotive had the car for a while..... stories abound. Traded his way cool chassised, tubbed, funny car caged Nova for it. He got 5 cents worth of crap for the Nova in the trade. Don't think the Dodge is legal for any racing class.... rough, just not safe. 440 maybe. With enough power your can make a brick fly. I'll stop by later. - Jim"

------------------
Retired Moderator
MustangNet

My site: JimPorterRacing

RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR

HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN. The best tool you'll ever have, and it's free !!!

smokedchevy · 09-10-2001, 05:41 PM

Yeah, it's definately a home built rig. But, with a little TLC and a lot of money, it'll make a nice drag car. Check this out, Brian said he sold that Nova for $20,000 plus the Belvedere for a trade

, give me a break. Yeah, I'll check back later. Maybe I can cruise the car by Kenny's shop.

------------------
92 GT, 4:10 gears, centerforce clutch, 6# powerdyne blower, bbk h-pipe, flowmasters

PKRWUD · 09-10-2001, 06:11 PM

Quote:

with a little TLC and a lot of money, it'll make a nice drag car

You just gave parts salesmen all over the country a woody.

Take care
~Chris

------------------
Retired Moderator
MustangNet

My site: JimPorterRacing

RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR

HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN. The best tool you'll ever have, and it's free !!!

09-09-2001, 04:18 AM	#1
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	I hate it when this happens... UPDATE Capri306- I spoke with Kenny Brown tonight and asked him the specific cause of this destruction, and he said it happened during a wreck. He came up quickly on a spun out car, and trying to avoid it, his wheel rolled over that of another car trying to avoid the stopped car, which launched him into an airborne spin. As he landed, his right rear tire wedged into the corner where the wall and the track meet, and it seized. Since the wheels are directly connected to the engine via the rear end (no transmission), this also stopped the engine, which was spinning at close to 8000 rpm's, instantly. The sudden stopping caused the crankshaft to snap on either side of the rod journal for cylinders 5 & 6. Take care ~Chris ------------------ Retired Moderator MustangNet My site: JimPorterRacing RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN. The best tool you'll ever have, and it's free !!!

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09-09-2001, 05:09 AM	#2
smokedchevy Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: ventura,CA Posts: 438	Hey Chris, Do you know Kenny Brown? Is he the guy on the avenue with the tranny shop? We bought a 65 Belvedere from a guy and he said it was owned by Kenny Brown before. Have you seen this car before? ------------------ 92 GT, 4:10 gears, centerforce clutch, 6# powerdyne blower, bbk h-pipe, flowmasters [This message has been edited by smokedchevy (edited 09-09-2001).]

09-09-2001, 06:15 AM	#3
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	I have known Kenny Brown for about 2 years, but only from racing. We used to run in the same class, but the team I work for now runs in the Senior Sprints. I believe he lives in Oxnard, and I'm 90% sure he has no affiliation with Brown's Transmissions, although he is well known around here. I have no idea about a '65 Belvedere, but I can ask him. What's on your mind? Take care ~Chris ------------------ Retired Moderator MustangNet My site: JimPorterRacing RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN. The best tool you'll ever have, and it's free !!!

09-09-2001, 12:17 PM	#4
Mach 1 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Georgia Posts: 3,866	No transmission? Whats that all about? Can you explain how this set up works and the logic behind it?

09-09-2001, 01:46 PM	#5
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	Sprint cars, for the most part, race on dirt ovals that are 1/2 mile or less. They are powered by either 360ci or 410ci Methanol burning engines that obtain their peak power (650hp - 950hp) between 7000 and 8000 rpm. They are designed to be driven at WOT, and don't have the time or the need to be shifted. Their success is largely due to their gearing. Their drivetrain consists of the engine, a U-joint that mounts to the end of the crank on one side, and has a yolk on the other, a splined driveshaft, and a quick change rear end. The rear end has a one piece axle that attaches to both rear wheels, and has a ring gear mounted to it which connects with a forward facing pinion gear (mounted behind the axle). The pinion shaft and the drive shaft ends are both splined, and sit on top of each other, at the of the back of the rear end. Two matched gears are slid onto their ends, which make the final gear ratio, and allow for gear changes in less than 3 minutes. For example, the Sprint car I crew for has a 4.86 ring and pinion. Last night, the track conditions called for a 6.76:1 final ratio at the wheels, so I installed a matching set of quick change gears in the end, with a 32 tooth gear on the pinion shaft, and a 23 tooth gear on the drive shaft. Our track is a 1/5 mile oval, and with a 6.76:1 final drive ratio, that keeps the engine between 6k and 8k rpms around the entire track. Below you can see a Winters quick change rear end. The polished plate with the anodized nuts at the rear is the quick change cover. If you draw a line forward from the bottom of that cover, you can kinda see the torque tube that covers the driveshaft. BTW, if you've ever wondered why Sprint cars always have to be push-started, it's because they don't have starters. With no transmission, there is no flywheel, and thus, no ring gear for the starter to engage. There are a few Sprints that have 2-speed trannys, but they are only used on tracks that are larger than 1/2 mile and usually paved. Take care ~Chris ------------------ Retired Moderator MustangNet My site: JimPorterRacing RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN. The best tool you'll ever have, and it's free !!! [This message has been edited by PKRWUD (edited 09-09-2001).]

09-09-2001, 02:38 PM	#6
Rev Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1998 Location: Houston, Tx. Posts: 3,887	PKRWUD, then is it correct to say that there's no flywheel or clutch either? That would make for some fast reving which I would imagine is what is saught after in a sprint race. Rev ------------------ '66 Coupe, 306, 300 HP, C-4, 13.97 e.t., 100.3 mph 1/4 mi. [This message has been edited by Rev (edited 09-09-2001).]

09-09-2001, 04:59 PM	#7
Motorhead302 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: Fort Wayne, IN Posts: 264	It seems as though it's also safe to say that you know a gentleman named Kenny Brown who races sprint cars, and not the Kenny Brown of Mustang tuning fame, correct? Just trying to clarify, since he lives in Indianapolis, IN, and spends most of his time with his business there and running his Track Time racing schools. ------------------ 95 GT, Pulleys, headers, off road, 3.55's, Tremec 3550, Cobra Clutch 14.4's @ 96mph before exhaust. Visit my homepage 95 Mustang GT: $13,000. Heads, Cam, Intake, etc:$3,000. Incon Twin Turbos: $3,500. Seeing the look on that Porsche owner's face at the next light: pricless.

09-09-2001, 06:02 PM	#8
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	Rev- You are correct, and yes, they are very fast reving. Really quite amazing vehicles. Motorhead302- You also are correct. This is the KennyBrown I'm referring to. Just happens to be a pretty common name (look in your phonebook). Smokedchevy and I happen to live in the same town, and I think he was also referring to this Kenny Brown. Sorry if there was some confusion! Take care ~Chris ------------------ Retired Moderator MustangNet My site: JimPorterRacing RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN. The best tool you'll ever have, and it's free !!! [This message has been edited by PKRWUD (edited 09-09-2001).]

09-09-2001, 09:46 PM	#9
AtaxicStanger Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: Waukesha, WI Posts: 59	One of my good friends raced sprint cars in Wisconsin. He mainly raced a reginal club but got into some outlaw races here and in Indiana. If you haven't seen a winged sprint car thundering out of turn three, kicking dirt into the stands, and roaring so ******* loud that it actually SCARES you, every lap, YOU HAVEN'T LIVED. TRY IT You'll LIKE IT Al ------------------ 95 GT, GT40 Aluminum Heads, Intake u/l, 9# Powerdyne SC, 65 mm FMS TB, 70 mm FMS MAS, 30 lb injectors, E303 cam, Hooker Super Comp equal shorty headers, H pipe, Flows, Nitto DR, MSD BTM, Adjustable FP reg, 255 fuel pump, Autometer gauge pod with Electric FP guage and Boost guage, a few other odds and ends

09-09-2001, 10:17 PM	#10
TJR Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Bowling Green, OH Posts: 270	410 sprint cars RULE! ------------------ 1989 lx notch 89,000 miles bolt-ons,stock heads/cam 60'- 2.07, 8.90@78, 13.93@99

09-10-2001, 02:21 AM	#11
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	AtaxicStanger- You hit it exactly right! Standing outside turn 4 and watching those mothers fly into turn 3, you are convinced there is no possible way for them to make it without crashing! UnGodly fast! However, those of us who run wingless Sprints would like to remind you: Wings are for Fairies. ) Take care ~Chris ------------------ Retired Moderator MustangNet My site: JimPorterRacing RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN. The best tool you'll ever have, and it's free !!! [This message has been edited by PKRWUD (edited 09-10-2001).]

09-10-2001, 02:24 AM	#12
smokedchevy Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: ventura,CA Posts: 438	Chris, I don't think that's the same Kenny Brown. They don't call him "Racer Brown" do they? The reason I ask is, we bought a huge tubbed and gutted big block mopar from a guy that lied his a## off. He said it used to be owned by Kenny Brown and it ran in the 9's. 11's I could believe, but not 9's. I just wanted to find out some more info on this car. We haven't run it yet, due to a lack of insufficient funds. We took it to the fairgrounds once, when they used to have the car show/swap meets, and ran into one of the original owners who owned it when he lived in South Dakota!! Talk about a coincidence. It turns out he never ran it either. I know it was a serious race car at one point because one of the ladder bars were busted and welded back together. It has a full cage and is completely gutted. I drove it on the street once and that's the fastest car I've ever been in. It has a full spool and can roast 29" x 18.5" MT's easily. Just wanted a little info. Thanks. ------------------ 92 GT, 4:10 gears, centerforce clutch, 6# powerdyne blower, bbk h-pipe, flowmasters

09-10-2001, 03:00 AM	#13
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	I'll hit up my buddy Jim. He knows everybody. He used to own Speed Center on Callens Road, but has worked at Hawaii Racing for about 5 years now. Take care ~Chris ------------------ Retired Moderator MustangNet My site: JimPorterRacing RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN. The best tool you'll ever have, and it's free !!!

09-10-2001, 09:21 AM	#14
Capri306 Moderator Join Date: Sep 1998 Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA Posts: 1,001	WOW! Damn, I couldn't imagine the torsional stresses of stopping a high-horse engine like that! Well, I guess now we know. I figured it was something like a locked/spun bearing or a bad crank! So basically the whole engine is trash. Ugh, that'd make me sick. At least the guy is ok I'm assuming after a wreck like that. Thanks for the update, PKRWUD. Much appreciated. ------------------ Capri306, Moderator, The Mustang Works Online 1979 Mercury Capri, 5.0L -- C4 -- 2.73 1987 Mustang LX Notch

09-10-2001, 12:49 PM	#15
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	No sweat Capri! I love any opportunity to turn new people on to one of the most addictive forms of racing there is. I guess I am a speed dealer! Don't tell my P.O. ! Smokedchevy- It is the same Kenny Brown, and now I know who you bought the car from. That guy (Brian) is the biggest liar I have ever met. Anyway, this is the email I got from Jim this morning: "Yes, Kenny Brown is Racer Brown. Big lying Brian from Ken's Automotive had the car for a while..... stories abound. Traded his way cool chassised, tubbed, funny car caged Nova for it. He got 5 cents worth of crap for the Nova in the trade. Don't think the Dodge is legal for any racing class.... rough, just not safe. 440 maybe. With enough power your can make a brick fly. I'll stop by later. - Jim" ------------------ Retired Moderator MustangNet My site: JimPorterRacing RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN. The best tool you'll ever have, and it's free !!!

09-10-2001, 05:41 PM	#16
smokedchevy Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: ventura,CA Posts: 438	Yeah, it's definately a home built rig. But, with a little TLC and a lot of money, it'll make a nice drag car. Check this out, Brian said he sold that Nova for $20,000 plus the Belvedere for a trade , give me a break. Yeah, I'll check back later. Maybe I can cruise the car by Kenny's shop. ------------------ 92 GT, 4:10 gears, centerforce clutch, 6# powerdyne blower, bbk h-pipe, flowmasters