I will buy a Mustang

LT1 Z28 · 03-11-2002, 07:54 AM

So, the hardcore GM Camaro guy is buying a 5.0 this summer.

Why? GM Dealers suck!!!

My budy Chris has a 95 Formula and bought the best clutch GM sold for it, a Z06 clutch. Dealer installed. After 5000 km, the clutch fails, the friction material separates itself from the disc. Dealer claims abuse on the part and will not replace it. Not only that but the parts manager was insulting and rude as well as the mechanics.

When you take a Z28 to the dealer and there is mods on it, however insignificant they are, they will not honour any warranties and fight with you. It is common on the camaroz28.com board. They refuse to work on the car sometimes.

Morale of the story? I don't want to buy a product and be left on my own to take care of it. My same friend Chris works at Campbell's Ford in Ottawa, the only SVT dealer in town. The sales guys push the Ford Racing parts to NEW customers buying NEW GT's!!!! They have dedicated staff for performance upgrades.

Why can't GM be like that?

So being new to Ford, I have a couple of questions for the vets:

1. How hard is it to do a Borg Warner T-56 conversion in a 91 5.0?

2. What is the biggest Fuel injected crate motor I can buy from ford? I like the 460 but it is carburated. I am sorry but 302 won't cut it. I want at least a 396 to go in there but I want fuel injection for driveability and tunability.

Thank you.

Marc

302 LX Eric · 03-11-2002, 09:33 AM

LT1Z28:

Welcome to the Mustang family. You'll probably want to change your user name at some point.

The T-56 conversion can be done. Check out www.ddperformance.com They can help you out with that.

As for the biggest motor, if you've got the cash, well, you can put about anything into a Fox body Mustang and have it fuel injected. And, for the record, a 302 can be made to produce some good power with or without a power adder. Personally, I would like to have a stroked 302 (to 331) ProCharged terror of a motor - but that will be down the road.

Good luck and again, welcome!

E

LT1 Z28 · 03-11-2002, 09:48 AM

Thank you Eric,

Actually, I will keep my username because I want people to know that I switched.

As far as I am concerned, the whole Ford vs Chevy thing is dead, now it is, muscle cars vs imports.

But on the fordracing site, all the crate motors over 351's come with Carb setup.

95mustanggt · 03-11-2002, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by LT1 Z28
As far as I am concerned, the whole Ford vs Chevy thing is dead, now it is, muscle cars vs imports.

I agree.

If you want displacement get either a stroked 302 or 351. That ought to keep you happy

LT1 Z28 · 03-11-2002, 10:47 AM

So, a 351 Cleveland is a Fuel injected motor? Then I could stroke it to a 396 right? And then supercharge the sucker! Superchargers for Mustangs are so freakin cheap!!!!

mustang17 · 03-11-2002, 01:08 PM

If you plan on a blower and major power, don't get a motor from Ford! I wonder how realiable a 396, supercharged, is going to be? Things start to break when you have that much power, no matter how you plan. You need strong internals and a perfect tune to keep the block in one peice. Does Ford offer forged steel Crank, pistions, ect? How about a main support for the block? I'd want a motor with lower compresstion for the blower.

You might want to get some advice from engine builders or peolpe who run something like that . A 351 with aftermarket heads, intake, cam and bolt ons can get you to around 450hp without much trouble. That might be a good start. Than you can decide if you need to get the blower too.

Sounds like a good project, enjoy the Mustang.

LT1 Z28 · 03-11-2002, 01:42 PM

Good points!

Which brings me to my next question... is there reputed engine builders in Canada dedicated to Ford? We have Agostino in Toronto for GM products but their service sucks.

That's why I want big displacement, I still intend to use forged components but not necessarely overtax them to put out the power I want.

302 LX Eric · 03-11-2002, 01:43 PM

My suggestion would be to contact any of the major engine builders for advice. For starters, you could try any of the following:

- Bennett Racing
- Keith Craft Racing Engines
- Coast High Performance
- D&D Motorsports (different than D&D performance)
- Livernois
- Kuntz & Co.

There are several others out there, but calling these guys would give you a good idea of what setups work well together, how much HP/TQ you would be looking at, what type of engine control systems you would use (Speed Brain, DFI, etc.) and probably the most important: total cost.

E

Unit 5302 · 03-11-2002, 02:25 PM

As far as the engine choice: How much power do you want to make. With a 302 you can eclipse 350hp N/A and remain streetable. With any of the stroker kits for the 302 you can close in on 400+hp N/A. If you want to use forced induction, you can press over 500hp, although I don't recommend it if you want the block to survive.

I was completely unaware of a 351C being offered as a fuelie? I thought the 351W was the only one out there as a fuel injected engine?

The standard 351W varient is stable to about 650hp, I believe. You could always get a sportsman block if you wanted more.

Friedchicken · 03-11-2002, 09:18 PM

I bought my 98 cobra from that dealership. They were pretty good. Had my tranny replaced in the 1st month, but they put in an pro shift kit for me no charge. If you are ever going for a new pony, go to Kanata Ford. They are great people to deal with.

LT1 Z28 · 03-11-2002, 10:53 PM

Thanks Fried chicken,

Maybe we'll hook up this summer. I want to buy a used 5.0. I want to pay between 3 and 5 G's. I went to Cambell's and talked to the performance guy in the garage and they are more than happy to help me build my car. I was refered to Steve who is in the parts dept. He has a supercharged blue 5.0. Very nice car, seen it at shows all the time. He will hook me up with the proper setup when I get my car.

Thanks for the help guys.

Friedchicken · 03-11-2002, 11:00 PM

I doubt we can hook up this summer- I moved to Vancouver last year

Glad to hear you got in touch with Steve at Campbells. Both of the dealerships are owned by Mr. Campbell, and either has been pretty good to me.

Good luck on the 5.0 in the future. They are falling out of the trees here in BC so they are a bit cheaper, but you should be able to get a good deal if you are patient.

LT1 Z28 · 03-12-2002, 09:48 AM

Haha! Ok! So much for that! But I looked on canadatrader.com and the cars in Vancouver were quite expensive.

There is lots of them in the Toronto area too. I'll find something.

jonnyk · 03-12-2002, 11:55 AM

Toronto has one of the best Mustang shops around, J&P Performance:
http://www.jandpperformance.com/

PonyGirl2000 · 03-12-2002, 07:38 PM

Mustangs are fun cars to have. People always knock fords. One you drive one you never go back. I have a '95 Camaro, piece of sh*t. This is my second mustang and wouldn't have it any other way. You'll enjoy it.

LT1 Z28 · 03-13-2002, 08:43 AM

You had a 95 too? I had a 95 Z28 6spd and it was a love and hate relationship. I loved the car's performance (13.68 @ 103mph on 245 street tires) but working on it was a pain in the ***. Was yours a Z28 also?

6 hours for plugs and wires!?!?! Geez!!!

PonyGirl2000 · 03-13-2002, 01:43 PM

No, it was a measly 6cyl

1965GTO · 03-15-2002, 12:51 AM

What's up? You say you don't want to buy a vehicle and be left to work on it yourself. So your answer is to buy a Mustang and do a bunch of work on it. And if your buddy smoked two clutches maybe he better learn to drive!

LT1 Z28 · 03-15-2002, 07:19 AM

Thanks for that wonderfull personal interpretation of what I actually said.

"I don't want to buy a product and be left on my own to take care of it."

In the context of the e-mail, I was refering to lack of dealer support to performance enthousiast.

Ford; sels me performance parts over the counter.

GM; refuses to work on a modified car.

As far as my friend's driving abilities, you don't know him and I do. Can you point to me where I mention he "blew" his previous clutch? He wore it down from normal wear. There is no issue with his driving abilities. The fact is that if he had spent his money on an aftermaket clutch and it failed the way the GM did, they would've stood behind their product and replace it. GM doesn't seem to care about that and choose to ignore common sense and didn't replace the clutch on false assumptions.

Since when do we have to prove we are innocent in north america? They had to prove he is guilty and their excuse was ****.

Thank you.

1965GTO · 03-15-2002, 01:32 PM

Well your friend can take them to court if he wants. They won't have to prove he is guilty. He would have to convince the judge that they adjusted the clutch wrong or show that they have a policy to replace replacement clutches if they go bad. If I had to judge I would say that to waste a clutch in 5000km the driver was at fault. GM sells performance parts over the counter also and I doubt if thier policies differ much on modified cars. Car manufacturers build cars to be driven as they are delivered. They have been tested for reliability in that state, not after someone modifies them. Anyway you did the right thing, because if they don't please you go somewhere else. My cousin bought a new suburban every year then he got one that kept dying on him and they couldn't fix it. Told them he wanted the vehicle replaced and they would not do it ,so he sold it and got a durango. He just bought another suburban last year though.

03-11-2002, 07:54 AM	#1
LT1 Z28 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Ottawa, ON, CA Posts: 142	I will buy a Mustang So, the hardcore GM Camaro guy is buying a 5.0 this summer. Why? GM Dealers suck!!! My budy Chris has a 95 Formula and bought the best clutch GM sold for it, a Z06 clutch. Dealer installed. After 5000 km, the clutch fails, the friction material separates itself from the disc. Dealer claims abuse on the part and will not replace it. Not only that but the parts manager was insulting and rude as well as the mechanics. When you take a Z28 to the dealer and there is mods on it, however insignificant they are, they will not honour any warranties and fight with you. It is common on the camaroz28.com board. They refuse to work on the car sometimes. Morale of the story? I don't want to buy a product and be left on my own to take care of it. My same friend Chris works at Campbell's Ford in Ottawa, the only SVT dealer in town. The sales guys push the Ford Racing parts to NEW customers buying NEW GT's!!!! They have dedicated staff for performance upgrades. Why can't GM be like that? So being new to Ford, I have a couple of questions for the vets: 1. How hard is it to do a Borg Warner T-56 conversion in a 91 5.0? 2. What is the biggest Fuel injected crate motor I can buy from ford? I like the 460 but it is carburated. I am sorry but 302 won't cut it. I want at least a 396 to go in there but I want fuel injection for driveability and tunability. Thank you. Marc

03-11-2002, 09:33 AM	#2
302 LX Eric or '331 LX Eric' Join Date: Jan 1999 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 2,142	LT1Z28: Welcome to the Mustang family. You'll probably want to change your user name at some point. The T-56 conversion can be done. Check out www.ddperformance.com They can help you out with that. As for the biggest motor, if you've got the cash, well, you can put about anything into a Fox body Mustang and have it fuel injected. And, for the record, a 302 can be made to produce some good power with or without a power adder. Personally, I would like to have a stroked 302 (to 331) ProCharged terror of a motor - but that will be down the road. Good luck and again, welcome! E __________________ 1991 5.0 LX Coupe - 40,750 miles 331 cu. in. / Tremec 3550 / BFG Drag Radials 12.22 @ 114.31 mph - w/1.89 60'

03-11-2002, 01:08 PM	#6
mustang17 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Concord, MA, USA Posts: 264	If you plan on a blower and major power, don't get a motor from Ford! I wonder how realiable a 396, supercharged, is going to be? Things start to break when you have that much power, no matter how you plan. You need strong internals and a perfect tune to keep the block in one peice. Does Ford offer forged steel Crank, pistions, ect? How about a main support for the block? I'd want a motor with lower compresstion for the blower. You might want to get some advice from engine builders or peolpe who run something like that . A 351 with aftermarket heads, intake, cam and bolt ons can get you to around 450hp without much trouble. That might be a good start. Than you can decide if you need to get the blower too. Sounds like a good project, enjoy the Mustang. __________________ 1995 GT Black- Edelbrock- 6037's,Intake, cam,70mm TB,75mm pro-m,Equal length headers,3.73's and all the bolt on's. SOLD 12/5/01 NEW! Mercedes-Benz SLK 230 Red/Black. Kleemann boost increase on the way!

03-11-2002, 01:43 PM	#8
302 LX Eric or '331 LX Eric' Join Date: Jan 1999 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 2,142	My suggestion would be to contact any of the major engine builders for advice. For starters, you could try any of the following: - Bennett Racing - Keith Craft Racing Engines - Coast High Performance - D&D Motorsports (different than D&D performance) - Livernois - Kuntz & Co. There are several others out there, but calling these guys would give you a good idea of what setups work well together, how much HP/TQ you would be looking at, what type of engine control systems you would use (Speed Brain, DFI, etc.) and probably the most important: total cost. E __________________ 1991 5.0 LX Coupe - 40,750 miles 331 cu. in. / Tremec 3550 / BFG Drag Radials 12.22 @ 114.31 mph - w/1.89 60'

03-11-2002, 09:18 PM	#10
Friedchicken Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Buranby, BC Posts: 25	I bought my 98 cobra from that dealership. They were pretty good. Had my tranny replaced in the 1st month, but they put in an pro shift kit for me no charge. If you are ever going for a new pony, go to Kanata Ford. They are great people to deal with. __________________ 2001 Mustang GT Convertable

03-11-2002, 09:48 AM	#3
LT1 Z28 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Ottawa, ON, CA Posts: 142	Thank you Eric, Actually, I will keep my username because I want people to know that I switched. As far as I am concerned, the whole Ford vs Chevy thing is dead, now it is, muscle cars vs imports. But on the fordracing site, all the crate motors over 351's come with Carb setup.

03-11-2002, 10:47 AM	#5
LT1 Z28 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Ottawa, ON, CA Posts: 142	So, a 351 Cleveland is a Fuel injected motor? Then I could stroke it to a 396 right? And then supercharge the sucker! Superchargers for Mustangs are so freakin cheap!!!!

03-11-2002, 01:42 PM	#7
LT1 Z28 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Ottawa, ON, CA Posts: 142	Good points! Which brings me to my next question... is there reputed engine builders in Canada dedicated to Ford? We have Agostino in Toronto for GM products but their service sucks. That's why I want big displacement, I still intend to use forged components but not necessarely overtax them to put out the power I want.

03-11-2002, 02:25 PM	#9
Unit 5302 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 5,246	As far as the engine choice: How much power do you want to make. With a 302 you can eclipse 350hp N/A and remain streetable. With any of the stroker kits for the 302 you can close in on 400+hp N/A. If you want to use forced induction, you can press over 500hp, although I don't recommend it if you want the block to survive. I was completely unaware of a 351C being offered as a fuelie? I thought the 351W was the only one out there as a fuel injected engine? The standard 351W varient is stable to about 650hp, I believe. You could always get a sportsman block if you wanted more.

03-11-2002, 10:53 PM	#11
LT1 Z28 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Ottawa, ON, CA Posts: 142	Thanks Fried chicken, Maybe we'll hook up this summer. I want to buy a used 5.0. I want to pay between 3 and 5 G's. I went to Cambell's and talked to the performance guy in the garage and they are more than happy to help me build my car. I was refered to Steve who is in the parts dept. He has a supercharged blue 5.0. Very nice car, seen it at shows all the time. He will hook me up with the proper setup when I get my car. Thanks for the help guys.

03-11-2002, 11:00 PM	#12
Friedchicken Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Buranby, BC Posts: 25	I doubt we can hook up this summer- I moved to Vancouver last year Glad to hear you got in touch with Steve at Campbells. Both of the dealerships are owned by Mr. Campbell, and either has been pretty good to me. Good luck on the 5.0 in the future. They are falling out of the trees here in BC so they are a bit cheaper, but you should be able to get a good deal if you are patient. __________________ 2001 Mustang GT Convertable

03-12-2002, 09:48 AM	#13
LT1 Z28 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Ottawa, ON, CA Posts: 142	Haha! Ok! So much for that! But I looked on canadatrader.com and the cars in Vancouver were quite expensive. There is lots of them in the Toronto area too. I'll find something.

03-12-2002, 11:55 AM	#14
jonnyk Being stroked is great Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 772	Toronto has one of the best Mustang shops around, J&P Performance: http://www.jandpperformance.com/ __________________ Novi 2000 now spinning off the snout of the 331... Mods Pics

03-12-2002, 07:38 PM	#15
PonyGirl2000 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 16	Mustangs are fun cars to have. People always knock fords. One you drive one you never go back. I have a '95 Camaro, piece of sh*t. This is my second mustang and wouldn't have it any other way. You'll enjoy it.

03-13-2002, 08:43 AM	#16
LT1 Z28 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Ottawa, ON, CA Posts: 142	You had a 95 too? I had a 95 Z28 6spd and it was a love and hate relationship. I loved the car's performance (13.68 @ 103mph on 245 street tires) but working on it was a pain in the ***. Was yours a Z28 also? 6 hours for plugs and wires!?!?! Geez!!!

03-13-2002, 01:43 PM	#17
PonyGirl2000 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 16	No, it was a measly 6cyl

03-15-2002, 12:51 AM	#18
1965GTO Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Dupo,ill Posts: 219	What's up? You say you don't want to buy a vehicle and be left to work on it yourself. So your answer is to buy a Mustang and do a bunch of work on it. And if your buddy smoked two clutches maybe he better learn to drive!

03-15-2002, 07:19 AM	#19
LT1 Z28 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Ottawa, ON, CA Posts: 142	Thanks for that wonderfull personal interpretation of what I actually said. "I don't want to buy a product and be left on my own to take care of it." In the context of the e-mail, I was refering to lack of dealer support to performance enthousiast. Ford; sels me performance parts over the counter. GM; refuses to work on a modified car. As far as my friend's driving abilities, you don't know him and I do. Can you point to me where I mention he "blew" his previous clutch? He wore it down from normal wear. There is no issue with his driving abilities. The fact is that if he had spent his money on an aftermaket clutch and it failed the way the GM did, they would've stood behind their product and replace it. GM doesn't seem to care about that and choose to ignore common sense and didn't replace the clutch on false assumptions. Since when do we have to prove we are innocent in north america? They had to prove he is guilty and their excuse was ****. Thank you.

03-15-2002, 01:32 PM	#20
1965GTO Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Dupo,ill Posts: 219	Well your friend can take them to court if he wants. They won't have to prove he is guilty. He would have to convince the judge that they adjusted the clutch wrong or show that they have a policy to replace replacement clutches if they go bad. If I had to judge I would say that to waste a clutch in 5000km the driver was at fault. GM sells performance parts over the counter also and I doubt if thier policies differ much on modified cars. Car manufacturers build cars to be driven as they are delivered. They have been tested for reliability in that state, not after someone modifies them. Anyway you did the right thing, because if they don't please you go somewhere else. My cousin bought a new suburban every year then he got one that kept dying on him and they couldn't fix it. Told them he wanted the vehicle replaced and they would not do it ,so he sold it and got a durango. He just bought another suburban last year though.

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