Imports?
 

Everybody on this site talks about beating the imports, come on guys leave the import ass kicking to the focus and escort guys and lets build cars to take care of the bowties and mopars. Nothing bums me out more than putting American 5.0 power up aginst some suhi slingin' circus side show. There is no glory in taking down an import, the real prize is showing the chevy crowd whos boss. If thats all your car is capable of you better buy some tools and a summit catalog. 5 liter bowtie eater.. Speed kills, buy a chevy, live forever...

Hey, i see where your comming from. But there are also alot of import people, and they have saw to fast to furious and they think there little cars can out run the mean 5.0. and it gets to us at one point in time. pluse its funny. i have a hit list in my town, at the top is an green black import that keeps reving its motor, along with a camaro import... you heard me a bowtie hiding behind a over sized gay fin, along with a new hemi and any thing else.

1) Sometimes you just gotta put them in their place. They get all mad when they lose

2) Some DSM's, Supra's, etc aren't anything to laugh at.


I've seen it a million times, a DSM with the boost turnd up a little, or a B16 CRX with some spray takes down the cocky guy with the stock GT.

:eek:

I am going to the track tomorrow and there will be 3 or 4 imports there that are way faster than me.

HP is HP and a car is a car IMO,

I respect both imports and domestics. As long as they are tastefully done anyway. I have a 67 Dodge and an 84 5.0 Tbird and Julia has a 93 Integra GS and it isn't anything to laugh at. In a 1/8th mile run the Teg would prolly beat both cars right now. The Teg runs 16 something (I'll have to find the slip) in the quarter with just a stage 2 clutch and a 207,000 mile original motor. 15's would be entirely possible with better tires (I couldn't get any traction in 1st at all and half of second went to smoke.) So imagine what about 3 grand into the b18 non vtec motor would yeild. The car only weighs 2600 pounds and is putting out an honest 145 horsepower but it has amazing torque. Future plans for the car include a fresh rebuild with some porting, polishing and boring, a turbo and possibly an LS/V-Tech conversion. This set-up would easily make 300 horse more than enough to gun down a stock GT. By the way this car looks almost bone stock from the exterior down to the stock 14 inch alloys. No fart can, no body kit, no guady spoiler. Sorry this went farther than I planned.
-Ian

It seems to me that the traditional domestic vs domestic rivalry has been very diminished, and maybe turned into a sort of an unspoken/uneasy alliance in the face of the "Import Craze". I would have to say that the main reason for this would be that dom/dom rivalry was more of a " flavor" matter, whereas the dom/import rivalry is more of a complete difference of worldviews. Domestic folks tend to like the same things, just different flavors of it, kinda like a sibling rivalry. Domestics and true tuners only have the "speed" common ground, but that can be enough. I've noticed that the true import fans (as opposed to ricers) seem to get along fine with domestic folks, or at least better than you'd expect.
Ricers however are on a completly different planet. My definition of a "ricer" , rice boy, or the scientific name "obnoxicus importicus/domesticus" is someone who is more concerned with making their car look fast, than they are with actually making it fast.
Thants what makes embarassing them so much fun. They as a rule have no clue how pitiful they are.
Sorry, end rant:D
I've seen nice domestics, I've seen nice imports, but I ain't never seen a nice ricer;)

Jorge

There is no doubt there are quick imports. But the majority are just fart can punks: however, the MAJORITY of cameros can take down a mustang in a heart beat.. In our car club of 30 members 6 are ford guys, and make no mistake the chevy crowd would rather take down and talk smack about stangs than the imports. This in my opinion is the reason mustang guys go for the ricer crowd for smack talk...Easier target. Build your car to handle an LS1 and the shit boxes will fall.

Chevy is for guys with out balls
 

Chevy, Camaro... ha I hate chevy as much as imports, even thow i have a little more respect for the camaro than a ricer. But chevy is for the person who wants a hot rod for cheap. Ford you have to pay more. But it atleast mine... out runs camaros and what have you. So the Moral of this comment is **** the ls1

The times, they are a-changin'
 

Good points from all, especially KiltedBanshees93GT (Jorge) who recognizes the very distinct difference between the Chevy-Ford rivalry and the domestic-import rivalry. Let's face it: a stock Chevy Camaro V-8 and a stock Ford Mustang V-8 are really two styles of the same basic car. Same size, weight, engine configuaration and technology - with a host of modifications available that can make either one a 10, 11 or 12 second car with the right parts. Even faster if you want it.

The imports, mostly Japanese, (hence the slang label of 'ricer') are basically the same (in stock form) 4 cylinder econocars that have been heavily modified and almost always turbocharged and/or nitroused to the max to perform at the same level as an American V-8. That's fine and in the tradition of 'hotrodding' that began when California tinkerers started playing around with primitive Ford flathead V-8's in the 1930's and '40's and transplanting early Caddy and Oldsmobile OHV V-8's into old Chevys and Fords in the early 1950's.

The big difference is that we are seeing a revolution in 'hot-rodding' that has the folks that want speed now going into (mostly) foreign econocars to modify while the good old American 'muscle car' is often looked at by the young guys coming into driving age as a 'relic' and a 'throw-back' to their father's era. Not that the Mustang isn't a performer anymore and can't be modified to run with any foreign 'ricer', (nitrous is available to Mustang V-8's, too) but it's no longer the automatic choice of the young guy or gal that wants to run 12's all day.

I agree that the 'Fast and Furious' movies probably have fueled the craze for imports running ridiculous wings, wheels and paint jobs with little to back up the 'racer' look but a fartcan exhaust. Apparently, 'Gone in 60 Seconds' didn't do as much for the Mustang. Of course, there are more than a few Mustang 5.0's on the street with little more than Flowmasters, a wing, 18" wheels and a huge tach on the dash, too and many of the late-model 'Stangs we see around are basically stock, so the game is played by both sides but the big difference is that the near-stock Honda Civic (equipped with a fartcan, a big wing and oversized wheels and tires) is running 17's in the quarter-mile and the near-stock Mustang V-8 is running 14's - and sometimes better if it's got a few mods (or is a late-model Cobra).

I can't quite agree with those that say: "a car is a car" and think that 'it doesn't matter as long as it's fast'. We all choose our cars carefully and those who pick the Mustang (or Camaro) are making a statement of sorts: American car, V-8 power, muscle-car history, etc. Those that choose a foreign car as their performance vehicle are making a different statement and much of it is simply following-the-herd mentality, in my view. Yes, I know that American cars are partially built in Canada and elsewhere and Japanese cars are built mostly in America but it's the perception that counts - and no one thinks of a Honda or Toyota as 'American' - but a Mustang is nothing but 'American' to most folks. I can agree that in a drag race it's the lowest et that counts and foreign four-bangers can run fast, as we all know. I respect that, even if it's not my choice of vehicle. I also respect that a Mustang V-8 is still the Gold Standard that a majority of 'ricers' want to beat, which is telling. For my money, I still prefer the heavier and sometimes less technically sophisticated but very 'American' Mustang V-8, 5.0 or 4.6 (well, mostly 5.0 - to be honest about it) but I understand that in a revolution, even a revolution where no one gets hurt, things change and the 'Stang (and/or Camaro) is no longer the automatically dominant car on the streets these days and that punk kid with a silly-looking Corolla or Civic making farting sounds as he revs it at the light may actually be driving a 12-second machine that can take any near-stock Mustang V-8. That's reality - sometimes.

I hate that - but I also accept that the field has changed and turboed, nitroused foreign four-bangers are probably here to stay on the street racing scene while the Mustangs, Camaros and other American V-8 cars are diminishing somewhat, but will never go away entirely, I'm certain. I still personally prefer a Mustang V-8 any day and probably always will but the days of Chevy vs Ford and other domestic rivalry battles are a less-dominant part of the fast car scene in 2004 and a new day is here. The Mustang V-8 can deal with the imports and will prevail into the future, I'm sure, but while many of us won't ever look at a four-cylinder import as a 'real' performance car - a lot of folks can - and will - and that, whether we like it or not, is the reality, today.

A set of headers for an Ls1 costs more than I paid for my whole car.
Ls1 TAs and Camaros cost quite a bit more than mustangs when comparing year to year.

Why is it I always get these guys in Ls1 that want to run my 90 GT but never guys in a third gen.

the import are nothing to worry about im from maine and there are alot of import drivers here which pull up to me and want to race me with my stock 5.0 and i won't so when i park to talk to friends there come up and try to taunt me and i tell them that 1.5 liter is the size of my soft drink get lost i save it for the v8's

Guys, it all about HERITAGE!!! Mustangs and Camaros have it...Ricers do not.

Anything can be fast...speed is not everything, right?

Let it be known, that there are some SERIOUSLY fast imports out there that would give a new Cobra cause for pause. Subarus and Mitsus come to mind with 300 hp stock on a very light weight car. Cheap too, relatively.

I just read a review of a new $130k Lambo. 0-60 in 4.0 seconds and the quarter in 12.3 at 118. Fast, sure! But, a lot of you guys have cars that are just as quick or quicker at a fraction the cost. Would you try to race the Lambo? What would it prove? If you could find one, I bet the owner would not bother with you.

We need to treat the Ricers with the same type of indignation...blow them off, not away.

I would rather be past by a Ricer than own one.

Blake has a point. But in oklahoma a lambo is just a dream, so we have hondas with body kits, and as much hp as my lawn mower. I dont know what its like in other states but in oklhoma a supra is as close as there is to a import hot rod

yeah blake is right on the money the imports haven't been around racing very long, but there is a solution to this problem the imports usually run together in a group with the fastest one in front, get him at the light and smoke him in front of all his buddies and the rest will leave you alone they bug me all the time so when my 408 is done this summer there is a big decal going on my back window that says: if its not jucied, blown or a v8 your wasting my time :D

The thing I notice is that rice burnners stick more to racing each other than they bother a mustang or camero. I hardly ever even see very many ricers around here anyway. I have never had a ricer even look my way when I drive the 69 around. I think it is funny when I went to the street races the ricers would get all happy when they got into the 15s and all I could do is laugh. Rice just isn't the cool thing to do around here. It is all about trucks with 8 inch lifts around here.

On a side note I don't know why people think ricer is some new term. I remeber my dad saying it when I was really young.

Chris75:

So, if I smoke the lead Ricer at a light, then does that mean that the others will follwe me around like a bunch of orphans?

69fastback:

Just to make a point, I would never try to race a nice '69 Stang with my '00 GT. I don't deserve it...I have too much respect for the old classics.

You know, I used to knock Ricers quite a bit, and some I still do. But as far as racing and modding goes, a lot of them have more heart in their car than the agerage classic enthusiast.

Many Amrican muscle cars became the hots rods and classics of the world because they were cheap, and heavily customizable to a generation who whad fun with them, and put their heart and soul into them. Ricers do the same thing, just the cars have changed.

Most imports are more reliable than American-built economy cars today, so kids buy them, and then spend their after-school time suping them up, and making them their very own modern day hot rods. Just like the past, some are still just flash and fancy, but some are real troopers, and can whoop most classic muscle in a race, be it staightaway or curved track. It's not often the car I look at, but how much love and heart the owner has put into it. If I had the '76 Aussie Falcon XC Cobra GT that appeared in Mad Max, and a new Subaru WRX Impreza RT pulled up next to my engine, I'd race him. I don't care about car class or heritage. It's all about the people inside the car that matter.

And on the topic of heritage. that's a rather flimsy ground to be standing on. I think we all know that the first Mustangs were nothing more than Falcons with a bit more power, and a better skin. You want heritage, you have to look back to the scrawny little '60 Falcons to see your Mustang roots. Imports have heritage, too. It might not be as long, but it's there. You go out to a rally track, you'll see a lot of Subarus and Audis. Why? They're good cars, can have a lot of power, and have earned professional respect.

Go ahead and disagree if you want, I'm jsut stating what I've observed from years and years of going to car shows, both classic and modern, and talking to owners and modders. Though you might not want to admit it, that next three-year-old WRX that pulls up next to you with the racing mods is some kid's own "Mustang" or "Camaro" of sorts. It's a car he could afford, and has spent his time and energy turning into the ride he wanted, just like you all have done with your various cars.

To be brutally honest, I actually agree with most of your post...you hit the target and I too have had those thoughts on more than one acassion. The ricer drivers of today are the stang and camaro drivers of yesterday...no doubt at all.

I do disagree with your "heritage" comments. Give it 20 more years, and lets see if 1978 Corola sells for $150k at auction (using todays dollars). THEN, "ricers" will have the kind of classic heritage that I am referring too.

What hurts my eyes to see though, and sure its personal, is all the BAD taste that some ricers have. The things that they do to these cars are trully sinful.

Of course a Corolla won't sell for that much, but you might see a classic suped-up Celica or something of that ilk go for so much. My main point is that Mustangs did not originate from glory, but worked their way up mainly due to the kids who bought them as cheap pransportation, and beefed them up for fun.

And I wholeheartedly agree that some ricers take thigns way too far, with way too little taste. Hence my love for www.riceboypage.com . Though I have seen a few drop-dead-gordrous mods done to some imports. I believe a custom Skyline was among one of the best looking cars I've ever seen at a show.

Afford, don't those wrx's and eveloutions cost around 30k?

I

Rather flimsy?? Really?? I agree with alot of what you are saying but those imports don't have the backbone the american muscle does. Calling the mustang a falcon won't hurt our feeling. The thing is.. its Made in America by American owners. Will a Celica ever be worth anything of any value, no. A 95 Supra may, but it was a $40k+ car to start with. A ricer to us is not an import but a stickered up import that is trying to portray itself as being fast. An import with a huge wing and ground effects and/or a huge exhaust tip that pulls up to the light and runs 16sec 1/4 times and sounds like a sick chainsaw. Its not so much the car as it is the attitude the youngsters display. Sure there are some nice imports, no doubt about it. Some have good 1320 times and many handle very well. Will it replace my love for american iron, the torque of a V8.. the sound?? No. Before you think I'm prejudice, I also own a Honda VFR800. The good old USA don't make anything to compare with it but when they do..

You see... well.. to go alittle deeper... I know alot of imports are actually made here and it puts Americans to work, which is good as alot of people are buying the imports anyhow but.. I'd rather the good ol' US of A be owned by Americans as opposed by a Jap company. I'm crazy like that..

Also, I'm not bustin' on your european cars either. They have some fine cars, the 500sl probably being one of my favorite cars but.. we buys what we likes because.. well.. we likes it:)

Heck, my first two cars were rusted out old imports. That was before I could afford one made in the USA. So they do have thier niche.

blake usually if you smoke the leader the rest will leave you alone thats all im saying, they taught us just to get a rise and to see if there fast enough yet to brag to there friends that they smoked a 5.0. but if you dont want to race them then dont, but you can almost bet that they go back to there friendsand say that this guy in the 5.0 is a chickensh*t, and that ricer probably couldnt beat my kids powerwheels with the battery half charged.

Automotive heritage and it's value
 

Originally posted by Sketch :

Quote:

You know, I used to knock Ricers quite a bit, and some I still do. But as far as racing and modding goes, a lot of them have more heart in their car than the agerage classic enthusiast.

I tend to disagree but how much 'heart' any particular modifier has for his car is impossible to quantify so I can find compromise here by simply adding that I believe most car modifiers are fairly equal in their enthusiasm for their respective machines - and all modifiers bow at the altar of speed.

Quote:

Many Amrican muscle cars became the hots rods and classics of the world because they were cheap, and heavily customizable to a generation who whad fun with them, and put their heart and soul into them. Ricers do the same thing, just the cars have changed.

I agree completely.

Quote:

Most imports are more reliable than American-built economy cars today, so kids buy them, and then spend their after-school time suping them up, and making them their very own modern day hot rods. Just like the past, some are still just flash and fancy, but some are real troopers, and can whoop most classic muscle in a race, be it staightaway or curved track.

Reliability is a debatable issue when you compare an American V-8 to a Japanese 4 and talk about performance. While the Mustang V-8 was made for performance, most standard four-cylinder engines used by 'ricers' were not and adding turbos and nitrous oxide to the four-cylinder engine can often weaken and eventually destroy them while a V-8 has a lot more room for modification and power-adders without destroying itself.

As for the curved track issue: yes, American musclecars were never really designed to be road racers and have always lacked in that area of performance, but few Mustang or Camaro buyers give a rats patoot about circle track racing, anyway. This is a european sport that has never caught on with American street racers, although it is growing as the 'ricers' try to emulate the drifting craze of Japanese racers. In any case, with the right parts, a new-generation Mustang or Camaro can road race all day if necessary but a lighter Japanese car will always have a structural advantage here. I don't see that as critical but simply one of those built-in things that occur when you compare apples (American muscle cars) to oranges (modified Japanese econocars).

Quote:

It's not often the car I look at, but how much love and heart the owner has put into it. If I had the '76 Aussie Falcon XC Cobra GT that appeared in Mad Max, and a new Subaru WRX Impreza RT pulled up next to my engine, I'd race him. I don't care about car class or heritage. It's all about the people inside the car that matter.

I agree to a point - a race is a race - but to ignore the obvious rivalary between domestic and foreign muscle on the street would be naive.

Quote:

And on the topic of heritage. that's a rather flimsy ground to be standing on. I think we all know that the first Mustangs were nothing more than Falcons with a bit more power, and a better skin. You want heritage, you have to look back to the scrawny little '60 Falcons to see your Mustang roots. Imports have heritage, too. It might not be as long, but it's there. You go out to a rally track, you'll see a lot of Subarus and Audis. Why? They're good cars, can have a lot of power, and have earned professional respect.

Here's where I do disagree, and strongly. Heritage: Americans were modifying and racing (street, salt flats) those old '30's and 40's Fords and Chevys back in the days before World War Two, long before europeans had a clue as to anything other than open-wheel racing by rich dilettantes sponsoring daredevil drivers in expensive automobiles for the amusement of the wealthy. The concept of the 'drag race' is as American as apple pie and the hobby of modifying a stock Chevy or Ford is also a very American pasttime. Both street racing and drag track racing as well as NASCAR all go back to the 1940's and '50's. Europeans had road racing for a long time, back to the teens, but 'the drags' and racing for the quarter-mile are a pure American hobby.

The Mustang was based on the lowly Falcon, as we all know, but that misses the point. All American Muscle cars of the 1960's were simply stock sedans with huge engines, either transplanted in a smaller chassis (GTO) or built for racing (the Ford 427) and then plunked into a Galaxie and modified (at the factory) to run on the street. The original 1964 1/2 Mustang was a genius of design, using available parts and a simplistic mechanical layout over a brilliantly designed new body that offered sports car cachet at a very affordable price. From the lowly Falcon six cylinder to the then-impressive 271 HP V-8, the original Mustang had it all - and everyone could own a Mustang, unlike european sport cars that were either a joke (the hapless MG) or overpriced and unreliable (Jaguar). We could ohh and ahhh at a Ferrari or even a Jaguar XKE but most Americans wanted a Corvette 327 (or later, a 427) or if they couldn't afford one, a Mustang V-8. Many a hit pop song was recorded about American muscle, from 'Rocket 88' in the late 1940's to 'Hot Rod Lincoln' to GTO and 409 back in the early to mid 1960's, an indication of Americas love affair with fast 'street' cars.

America has long had a love affair with cars that europe and Japan never had, partly due to the war devastation and then, high gas prices Americans never had to face. From early on, we've also had a smaller but more intense love affair with fast cars, especially ones that were fast from 0 to 60 and in a quarter-mile run. Japanese and european cars simply do not have that kind of 'heritage'. No lines of muscle cars like America produced in the cheap-gas 1960's era and certainly no love for acceleration as we Americans do. Road racing is great but not the same as a quarter mile race and you need a very well balanced car to do it successfully. American muscle - represented by the Mustang these days - offers great straight-line speed, high end power and a very respectable degree of handling, too, and all for under 30 large at your local Ford dealer. That's 'heritage' and the Mustang V-8 embodies it in a way no 'ricer', no matter how fast it is - can duplicate for the average American.

Quote:

Go ahead and disagree if you want, I'm jsut stating what I've observed from years and years of going to car shows, both classic and modern, and talking to owners and modders. Though you might not want to admit it, that next three-year-old WRX that pulls up next to you with the racing mods is some kid's own "Mustang" or "Camaro" of sorts. It's a car he could afford, and has spent his time and energy turning into the ride he wanted, just like you all have done with your various cars.

I've gone to many car shows and spoken to modders too, and I've taken you up on your offer to 'disagree if you want' only to emphasize the thingss that separate American muscle cars from the modified Japanese econocars and 'new' musclecars coming off the Japnese and european assembly lines. I've already stipulated that a lot of young guys are totally into the Japanese cars and have abandoned the American muscle cars, probably for good. I regret that but I've admitted the reality of it, for better or worse. America is a big country and with our once-cheap gas, we built an automobile heritage based on relatively big cars with big engines that run fast. This is why I don't buy the: 'a car is a car' rationale. Times have changed but we're still proud of our long history of modifying cars and racing that some kid's Honda Civic, no matter how lovingly modified or how fast, cannot match in the minds and hearts of many Americans. We can respect them for their performance and the work that went into them, as you ask, but they just can't match the history and the attachment we have with a Ford Mustang. I have little interest in a four-cylinder car as a street racer but lots of interest in a modified Mustang. Maybe I'm a dying breed - but I doubt it. The Mustang is still popular and draws much interest and comments and will be around for years. So will modified Civics and Jettas and Corollas, I'm sure, but the Mustang is still the Gold Standard for many street racers and the car to beat - if you're a ricer. That says it all.

American muscle cars where already hot rods from the factory. With engines like 428s, 427s and even 454s for the chevy guys. Hell ford put out an 11 sec car from the factory back in 64 from the factory. If that is not a hot rod or a muslce car nothing is When a japanesse car maker makes an 11 sec NA car from the factory I will be impressed. Until then they will just be the slow 4 clyc they always are. I just can never see a japanese car ever going for 100k 20 years from now

As far as road racing the boss 302 and the gt 40 did pretty good at road racing as I recall.

rice attitude
 

I will agree with the fact that a lot if import guys have the same pride and work invested in their cars, and to them its the same dedication that a lot of the domestic rodders have. I think a lot of the old hardcore tuners started as domestic folks who got bored and wanted to try modding something else, something different (in the same general spirit as the racers in the 40's previously mentioned) Just a personal theory.
I think that the thing that has held them (Import drivers) back from general acceptance/respect the most has not been the technological side, tho lacking those other 4 cylinders is a bit of a handicap:D, but the taste and attitude of a smaller but obnoxious subculture (i.e. ricers).
These guys have no respect for anything that is not from across the water, and dont seem to grasp basic physics. They are loud in their pronouncements of asian superiority, and have managed to alienate the rest of the car community with their boorish behavior, lack of general taste (How many fog lights do you really need?) and refusal to give respect even in the face of just having their butt whipped. (I dont know about you, but if I get into a race and get my hindquarters handed to me, I'm much more likely to give you a thumbs up when I catch up, than the finger. I've been known to pick races with much faster cars just to see them run. )
Its this attitude that has driven a wedge between the crowds, IMHO. Otherwise, we would just smile and pat them on the head
:rolleyes:
Just my .02,
J

I`m sorry, but I cant feel proud of running a 4cyl honda no matter how much crap he has. Imports are for beaters and trips to the grocery store in my opinion. The thing I hate is seeing fewer and fewer American V 8 cars out there worth running.

4 banger challenge
 

I once apollogized for smoking a 4 banger (was a Toyota Celica with a wing and pipes, thought it was a surpra).

Now, I'll race most anything in a safe situatiion. I do look for cops though. Many cars that I don't immediately recognize can be fast.

I do hope they will give a good rev to get my attention as I'm about half deaf now, LOL.

Rev