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Israel..........
It's my belief that Israel has gotten enough
help from us. They are one of the reasons why we're in this situation. Let's face it, we are dealing with a place the size of NJ, why bother? Is it really that important to us? I realize that 3 major religions came from there, but why all the fuss? Let them fight for themselves! We (USA) have enough problems of our own! |
isreal is probably our only ally, in that part of the world , i have been there 4 time' & most irealis are on our side if a certain ex- pres had kepy his nose out of their issue's well nough said they, can handle their own problem's i know i spent a whole day with teir military , awsome.
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Why do you even care about Israel? Do you think your support of them is costing you so much you won't be able to effectively fight the terrorism? Please! I think you are just looking for more people to screw over, to make feel guilty for what has happened. You seem to forget history. The US helped set up Israel as a soveriegn nation to make sure the attrocities commited during ww2 would never happen to Jews again. And now you would abandon them? You would abandon them while everyone is coming to help you! Please. I'm glad your government isn't run with the same yeeehaaaw nukem' all kind of attitude I see from some Americans.
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Hell yea, I agree with what Marty said, plus being that my mom is from Israel, and the fact that I have family there, I take it a little personal, and that may be wrong, but they are our strongest ally, and the fact that we both help eachother in more ways that we probably know about, I wouldn't want to stop helping them, or them to stop helping us.
Just my .02 cents. ------------------ 14.44 best et with street tires, spinning first and second hard. Mods:BBK 2 1/2 inch h-pipe with 1 chamber American thunder flowmasters 3.73's Steeda lowering springs 245/50/16 Nittos |
Heck,
I guess if I were to pick any nation to be an ally, it would be Israel. Sure, they're about the size of NJ, but they've been able to handle (with a vengance) any conflict that has come against them. I have no doubt that they can fight their own battles. They have one of the, if not THE most battle ready militaries in the world, not to mention their intelligence gathering capabilities. I don't know if you're a God fearing man or not, but the Bible makes it clear that Israel has a special deal going with God. Check out some of the prophecies in Revalations. Reguardless, I don't think Israel needs our help...in fact, if anything, we've probably been holding them back from wiping out most of the Middle East with all the diplomatic talks that have been going on. I don't understand why everybody rags on Israel. "Oh....big bad Israel is beating up on those poor Palestinian citizens!" Hell, take a look at it...Israel has only retaliated for acts done to its citzens and or military. Maybe if all those extremely bright people in the Middle East would stop throwing rocks at armed soldiers and tanks amd stop dropping bombs off at places crowded with Israeli citizens, they wouldn't get so messed up. Reguardless...the United States has always backed Israel and always should, in my opinion. Besides, our relationship with Israel was only one more excuse for what happened in NY. If we had nothing to do with Israel...there are always other excuses. Anway...my $.02 is finished.... --nathan ------------------ --silver_pilate '91 GT, Built 306, Wolverine 1087 cam, ported Windsor Jr. Irons, and all the goodies...click the link to the left to see a full list of my mods... Tried and True 302 Being Built to Outrun You! heh heh heh... --Texas Panhandle-- Check out my site |
Simplistic solutions won't work.
We have a special bond with the nation of Israel and have since they were founded as a nation in 1948. I won't bore everyone with all the historical facts, but we will never desert this staunch friend in the middle-east. Israel does not ask for our soldiers to fight for them, they can do that quite well for themselves, but we do supply them with the arms needed to fend off attacks from a dozen other hostile nations. That is only reasonable. The Arab nations that claim Irsael is the point of their discontent with America are lying. Yes, they hate Israel, but if Israel disappeared tomorrow and every Jew left that part of the world, the Arabs, especially the radical Islamic nations, would still hate the U.S., so abandoning Israel is no panacea for peace in the mid-east. |
The reason I have brought up this subject
is to partially explain why hardcore muslims are displeased with us Americans: Everytime muslim nations get bombed they pick up a remnant of a destroyed weapon and read off the words "made in USA", which points all fingers at the USA. We supply all these weapons to allies in the middleeast (especially Israel). I am not condemning Israel for being in the middle of all these countries, neither do I think that anybody deserves to be dropped from US support. It seams to me that the UN caters prodominant- ly to Israel's interests when dealing with the middleeastern issues. I do really think that Clinton really screwed up when he sent those cruise missils into Afghanistan. He really made a great name for the US with that one! I don't support Palestinians, I think that they are brainwashed at birth into thinking the way they do. I'm certainly not going to make friends with someone that hates my guts. My point is that religion is many times used as an excuse to kill. Thats not what ANY religion teaches (or is supposed to teach), and as a godfearing citizen, I am appauled at the behavior of the Taliban. I got sick to my stomach when I saw the pictures and undercover reports from Afghan- istan on CNN, this is barbaric behavior, lower than animal behavior. Osama Binladen reminds me of Hitler! Sick! Americans should really sit back and think what we are getting into here. It's not gonna be pretty! God Bless us all! |
vector , bandit esp. , silever pilate & mr 50 you all said it, i alway's thought i was just a wasp, found out from , christian jew FRIEND of mine i am descended from one of the tribe's of isreal , when i was in beirut in the early 80's i lost some good marine freind's when we docked i haifa they were backing us all the way,patting us on the back ,etc so i am behind them 1,000 % it's the feak camel jockey's that are our enemy. if i have to go to ,isreal & take up weapon's myself , send me a ticket.
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History shows that it is the UN holding Israel back. If the UN wouldn't keep messing with them and telling them to give their country up for peace Israel would have blown Lebanon to bits again. Egypt learned first hand how powerful that little nation is. Israel has given up it's land in a vain attempt for peace, yet the UN and President Clinton were still telling them to give up more.
What do you think our reaction would be if Mexico was causing **** and the UN and Israel told us to give up Texas for peace? As far as I'm concerned we should back Israel 100% and let them deal with the arabs as they see fit. |
OY!!!!
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I'd be willing to give up Texas.
I spent two weeks in Israel in the early 1980's. Nicest people on earth. Had to spend an afternoon in a bomb shelter while overnighting it on a Kibbutz on the Lebanon border due to shelling a few miles away. I know for a fact that if they weren't so restrained by the UN and the US, we'd be buying oil from them now. The dickweeds over there who hate us use Israel as an excuse. They hate our freedoms and our lack of respect for their religious beliefs. They can't understand how a nation can govern itself separately from religion, and think of such as truly evil. They fear our ways, and that their youth will adopt them. And yes, just how many people do have to die in the name of God before everyone realizes that God is nothing more than a subconscious set of morals (IMHO). nevermind. J/K about Texas. Take care ~Chris ------------------ Retired Moderator MustangNet My site: JimPorterRacing RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN. The best tool you'll ever have, and it's free !!! |
PKRWUD:
I agree with your comments on the mid-east situation but I disagree that God is 'just a subconscious set of morals'. However, I'm not up for a long and drawn-out religious discussion so I think we should just agree to disagree and then let it go on this one. |
Jim,
Something was lost in the translation. I really do try to avoid conversations about politics and religion, since there are rarely ever two identical opinions. I seem to have slipped this time, and shared a wee bit more than I meant to. No offense or disrespect intended, but you knew that. Take care ~Chris ------------------ Retired Moderator MustangNet My site: JimPorterRacing RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN. The best tool you'll ever have, and it's free !!! |
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Other than that... (No comment) |
It says in the bible, well in lame-man terms it says not to break with Israel
------------------ THE SLO PONY 1992 Ford Mustand LX. 2.3 liter four-banger, auto. Future mods: V-8 swap. http://www.anyflag.com/flagpoles/animated.gif Fly it loud, Fly it proud!!! If it ain't broke, you ain't tryin hard enough |
Rick, both of my parents are ordained ministers. I grew up very religious. As I age, and science becomes more reliable, I start to think that religion is just like alcohol or drugs: it's just a crutch for people who can't handle reality. I would much rather people get involved with religion than alcohol, until it reaches obscene limits like this whole taliban thing.
Anyway, I avoid these topics. Sorry again. Take care ~Chris ------------------ Retired Moderator MustangNet My site: JimPorterRacing RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN. The best tool you'll ever have, and it's free !!! |
Chris,
I agree with what you are saying but from a different angle. I believe man created god to comfort his insecurities. It has been done though the ages and who is to say what god is real and whose isn't? You have to die to find that and I think that dying ends any believe what so ever. I'd like to believe we all have one god and are recreated until we get it right but... who knows? I'm not willing to die for 'god' of any sort. God is man made. I am however willing to die for my believes.. I would give my life for my country, to maintain the way of life here.. I would fly a plane into a building. I would die if it meant that thousands could live. |
come on guy's i do believe in jesus christ, but as a twice combat vet i also believe that it is everyone's choice to believe what they want to it is their right as an american , if you do believe , fine if you don't that's fine too , this isn't the time too argue reilgion , or politic's it alway's end's up just that an arguement everyone has their own opinion's leave it be .am i , right or wrong? if i'm wrong i am ducking right now.
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You are right Marty. I avoid politics and religion because people are so emotionally attached to thier beliefs.
That is one of the great things about this country! You can believe whatever you want and voice your opinion. You are safe here among the Americans!! You can say what you believe and not be shot down because of it!! You sir, have rights here!! You can believe what you like, say what you like(hmm.. within reason.. this needs work), and worship whatever or whoever you wish.. as long as it doesn't infringe on anothers freedom. Welcome to America!! Born American and PROUD of IT!!! |
Posted by Rick:
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Rick, that is perhaps the best written example of how I feel that I have ever seen. How'd you do that??? I rarely let myself into my head, let alone someone 3000 miles away. Very, very impressive! Hey, do you have a single sister? Take care ~Chris ------------------ Retired Moderator MustangNet My site: JimPorterRacing RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN. The best tool you'll ever have, and it's free !!! |
Our backing of Israel is the real reason behind all this. I would not say they are our strongest ally or that they are the nicest people in the world. I would say that we been interferring over there for too long trying to get them to have peace talks and it will not work. Let them take care of it themselves. Now we need to take care of our own business we were attacked and need to kick some *** . Are we going to have peace talks with bin laden? Hell no! So why do we keep telling Israel to have peace with the f***** PlO?
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Honestly? To keep the price of crude oil down.
Take care ~Chris ------------------ Retired Moderator MustangNet My site: JimPorterRacing RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN. The best tool you'll ever have, and it's free !!! |
They hate us because we are free to be sinners if we want. They hate us because we allow women to be educated and show their faces. They hate us because we are wealthy despite our sinfulness (in their eyes). They hate us because our culture is spreading. They're just evil people full of hate for freedom. These morons are completely intolerant of anything that isn't part of their twisted view of Islam. That's why they kill people for teaching Christianity. That's why they destroyed priceless Buddhist monuments.
To say that we should change the way we are and who we support to avoid such attacks is like saying that we should stop earning money so we can't be robbed. Our support of Israel is the right thing to do and we should continue to do it. I do agree that we should stop trying to force Israel into peace since the person they are trying to negotiate with isn't even in control of the people causing the problems. Arafat clearly isn't their leader. If we let just a few thousand people dictate how we should behave in the world for fear that they may try to terrorize us, we should just as well surrender to them and live under the same laws that the Taliban enforces. |
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------------------ 1984 1/2 GT350 (#842 Hatchback w/ T-tops), 302HO, Comp cams Xtreme Energy cam, Carter 625cfm carb, Weiand Stealth intake, MSD distributor, MSD coil, FMS 9mm wires, 1 5/8" MAC unequal shorties, 2 1/2" MAC Prochamber H-pipe, Flowmaster 2 chambers, KYBs, 16"x8" 4 lug Cobra Rs, Falken 245/45ZR16s So I pushed it up to 110, That flathead motor was about to give in, I crossed my fingers and prayed to the lord, Don't let me down you fuct up ford!" "5-Oh Ford" by The Reverend Horton Heat |
isreal does not need our help, iv'e seen their military first hand ,they are in a lot of way's better equipped than we are, no dis to our military -12 year member. but they can handle their own ,they don't need us at allthe un & the usa needs to let them alone & quit telling them to give up their land, send the plo to iran or somewhere they belong.
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Chris,
I thought about it and that was the conclusion I came to many years ago. Hmm.. we covered some of this in college as well, now that I think about it. I think I've once again shared too much, I gotta quit drinking and posting.. As far as the sister(LOL), 'fraid not http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/biggrin.gif You can have my ex-girlfriend tho.. [This message has been edited by rbatson (edited 09-29-2001).] |
The best way I can think to interpret this is:
Israel is the dog behind the fence, and the Taliban and their allies are the little kid that throws rocks at it. The UN and the USA (same thing, really) are the gate. All we need to do is open the gate and let the little sh*t get his *** chewed off, and he'll learn to stop throwing rocks. Either that or I'm and idiot. Either way, I liked the analogy, lol. Later ------------------ 95 GT, Pulleys, headers, off road, 3.55's, Tremec 3550, Cobra Clutch 14.4's @ 96mph before exhaust. Visit my homepage 95 Mustang GT: $13,000. Heads, Cam, Intake, etc:$3,000. Incon Twin Turbos: $3,500. Seeing the look on that Porsche owner's face at the next light: pricless. |
no you are not an idiot you pretty much said it the way it is ,it's just we are the second one behind the fence.the plo & the taliban need to move in together in afghanistan then , mushroom's all around for the brainwashed towelhead's . by the way did you go to the brickyard this year, grat race except the end. me & my wife enjoyed it , but it was hot that day, i had to keep throwing water on a drunk gordo fan, he kept falling out , offered him bottle's of water all day but no he kept swilling bud's. oh well see ya.
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Guys...I'm not going to try and convince you one way or the other. Just going to share my experience....
I have quite an extinsive background in the study of Biology and human physiology. I've studied the science of how life works, how the brain stores information, how a muscle contracts. I can tell you exactly how a nerve sends a signal. I've disected a human cadaver and seen, held, and cut everything that is contained withing the human form. And in all my years in studying the workings of human life...with all the science and theory that goes behind it...everything I have seen has only served to strengthen my belief in a higher power. It's my belief that science and religion complement each other and my experiences have seen that to be true. Like I said, I'm not preaching to anyone here, just sharing my thoughts as it is my right to do. Believe what you want, but ask yourself why many of the greatest objective and theoretical thinkers of science in all of history have never gone as far as to rule out a higher power. In fact, those that have made it their mission to disprove God have become believers. My statement: "I believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God who is the savior of this world." Anyway, my soapbox is now collapsed. I will make no more posts on this thread. --nathan ------------------ --silver_pilate '91 GT, Built 306, Wolverine 1087 cam, ported Windsor Jr. Irons, and all the goodies...click the link to the left to see a full list of my mods... Tried and True 302 Being Built to Outrun You! heh heh heh... --Texas Panhandle-- Check out my site |
I usually don't go into this except with someone that I really know, when we are questioning existance and the beginning.
Silver plate,I believe you are 100% right, there is not a doubt in my mind that there is a higher existance or "power". I just don't know if it has anything to do with humans. Ok, Im not gonna tip toe around this subject so.. I'll just say what I think about the whole situation and try to say it without sounding like a nut. http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/smile.gif Ever notice how things seem to work in a cycle? "All matter is composed of atoms." Hmm.. So we are all made of atoms. What are protons made up from?? More atoms?? Hmm.. The planets rotate the sun and the moon rotates the planets. (Sounds like an atom.) We know there are many more, uncountable, universes out there. Is it possible that we are living IN an atom?? Is it possible there are other lives in the small particles that all matter is consisted of? I think the answer to this is YES. I think we are composed of atoms, there are atoms within those atoms, that we in fact are part of an atom which makes up another atom and so on. Where does it end?? We are so insignificant, there is no way I think we will ever know. We could be part of a pebble, grain of salt, electricity, there is really no telling. Anyhow, this discussion could go on for 80 years. Which leads me to time, it really is relative. A life time to us may be a second in the bigger scheme of things, a second to us may be a life time for someone/something else. We know this is true, we can look under a microscope and watch other cells come to life and end in a matter of seconds. We know the 'half-life' of different substances, is there something watching us?? Good chance! Well, I meant to stop at anyhow but once I get going its hard to stop a thought.. one just leads to another.. I believe there is a high power, I just don't know if its how everyone preceives it.. I'm not an athiest, I'm a Marxist. I don't claim there is or isn't a god, I simply claim not to know. I think the best we can do is live and be happy, make the most of our time(this is our time whether it be a second or 80 years). Disclaimer; I could be completely wrong! I'm just stating some observations I've made, which led me to this conclusion. Sorry, 4 years trying of avoiding this subject here and I have to open my BIG MOUTH.. Peace http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/smile.gif [This message has been edited by rbatson (edited 09-30-2001).] |
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Oops!
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Rbatson...you drunk dood? That sounded way to philosophical and existential to be coming from a sober man. But how did this become a religious issue? I don't know who or what or even if god is...but I don't believe that he is the great creator we make him out to be. After all...by the rationale that we all had to come from somewhere, ok...that's true. But where did god come from? And the human body I have trouble with. If evolutionists are right...then millions of years don't seem like much time to get us where we are. But sometimes it seems like the human body is too perfect to be created by chance...the way one part compliments and sustains another. I also don't see us being molded out of clay and just *poof* turning out perfect. My major beef with religion rest in all of it's texts. Why doesn't the bible make mention of dinosaurs? You think you might want to include a chapter or two about enourmous fuking lizards. And we keep finding fossils that support more of an evolutionary basis than creationist basis. It's amazing what kinda sh!t you can find when ya dig stuff up, huh?
As far as Israel's concerned...who cares what kind of "bond" we have with them? It still doesn't justify the acceleration of violence and killing that will inevitably wipe them and the Palestinians out. Or will we jump into that too? We've become the mafia of the world...selling protection to anyone who can help us out (not necessarily financially). And look what it took for Americans to sit up and take notice of what's been going on. 6000+ people had to die to make us realize we had a problem. Nobody wih any comon sense or a brain cell in their head would say we asked for this or we had it coming...but the country as a whole needs to wake the hell up and realize we're not the innocents we think we are. People are just too busy with their cell phone, corner office, Jerry Springer lives to see what wrongs we commit in the name of peace. We did it in Vietnam. We did it in the Gulf War (by pretending we were there to help them instead of protecting our oil interests. You think anybody asked us to show up there?). And we're still doing it. ------------------ 1984 1/2 GT350 (#842 Hatchback w/ T-tops), 302HO, Comp cams Xtreme Energy cam, Carter 625cfm carb, Weiand Stealth intake, MSD distributor, MSD coil, FMS 9mm wires, 1 5/8" MAC unequal shorties, 2 1/2" MAC Prochamber H-pipe, Flowmaster 2 chambers, KYBs, 16"x8" 4 lug Cobra Rs, Falken 245/45ZR16s So I pushed it up to 110, That flathead motor was about to give in, I crossed my fingers and prayed to the lord, Don't let me down you fuct up ford!" "5-Oh Ford" by The Reverend Horton Heat |
you could be right 84-gt350 i went to the big desert storm after awhile i wondered what the hell am i doing here, it made no sense , i talked to a nam vet not long ago he told me he hated the gook's , sorry his own word's- then he told me , they were right they did not wany us there, i thought about it and , when iraq took kuiwat , why did'nt saudi arabia kick their a$$ out they had a larger army etc , no let's call in the usa but now it's different they have attacked us so ,let's rock.
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Texas would be the wrong state to Phuck with there are enough armed civilians in Texas to put up a damn good fight with a low tech country like Mexico |
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