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Just wanted to know what you guys thought of this
I posted this over at my home board. Just wanna get opinions from both sides of the fence. You have to admit it's at least intreaguing.
http://web.camaross.com/bb/Forum16/HTML/038892.html ------------------ 1999 Z28 M6 Arctic White, MTI-Clear Lid w/K&N, B&B Triflo, BMR STB, Pro 5.0 Power Tower, 160 Powerstat, HPP3, TB Coolant bypass, Ported MAF, Taylor 409 wires(10.4 mm), NGK TR-55s, Redline Synthetic Lubricants, K&N oil filter, AIM Screen name:POWRD BY LS1 |
YOUR SMOKING HERB! I would never put brand x in my stang. I would spend the money that a ls1 costs to put a kick *ss FORD small block in there. Nothing against GM, I just hate half breeds.
------------------ 347 W/ A-trim 6#'s, Canfield heads, out of the box Systemax II intake, solid roller cam. 11.1 @123mph 1.46 60FT 93lx 5.0 daily driver |
I say DO IT!! Just to piss people off. well maybe not all people, but i like the idea. Most get mad, and i dont know why, when the word "Chevy" gets brought up. Besides, it is one of the best small blocks GM has ever made to date! I love those motors same as the 5.0 HO Mustang motors. they last long(mostly if left to stock form), hae plenty of power, and kick a**! So GT-HUNTER, GO GOR IT!!
-------------------- 90 LX Black on Black Motorsports springs, Hurst, Subframes, MSD Coil, K&N and Flowbabies!!!! http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/smile.gif http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/smile.gif |
I have thought about that idea too..My father has a brand new police interceptor motor(5.7) that he said he would put in my car if I wanted. All I would do i carbeurate it and go..He even said we could stroke it to a 383...After the problems I am having now w/this car I am thinking about it..
------------------ 347 Stroker Motor: Balanced, A9P Computer, Cobra Transmission, Extrude Ported and Polished Upper and ported Lower, GT40 Milled Ported and Polished Heads, B303 Cam, BBK 1 5/8 Headers, 30lb Bosch Injectors, Holley Fuel Regulator, March Underdrive Pulleys, Perma-Cool Fan, 3-Core Radiator, Accel Performance Coil, Accel 300+ Racing Wires, Ram Air, K&N Filter, 79mm Mass Air Unit, FlowMaster Exhaust w/BBK Offroad H-Pipe, Hurst Short Throw Shifter, 3:55 Gears, Ram Clutch, Cross Drilled Rotors, AC del |
Interesting. Hmmmmmmmm. I usually believe that Ford engines need to stay in Fords, and a Ford should only have Ford stuff in it, especially the drivetrain.
Though, I must admit, It would be interesting to see that swap. If thats what it takes to convert Chevy people over to the Ford Side. Hmmmmmmm...I say go for GT hunter. ------------------ 64 1/2 "D" code Red Mustang Coupe. 289, C4, 3:1 rear gear. Mallory duel point. Ported & Polished 65 heads shaved .01 with 351 windsor valves, 11:1 comp, 1.7:1 sled rockers, blue wolverine lumpy cam, modified autolite 4100 Hipo 4 barrel. And to many others to list 2000 Perf Red Mustang GT. 5spd. BBK Underdrive pulleys, Flotech off-road H pipe. Hurst T-Handle 64 1/2 red 6cyl coupe. Auto. project car. |
I have seen a 393 Chevrolet in a 69 coupe. It is very cool!!!
A ------------------ 00 GT |
If you do it you won’t be able to compete at fun ford weekend because I believe you have to have a ford power plant.
------------------ James Cox nochevy@hotmail.com 1991 Mustang LX 12.565 @109.38mph 1.764 60ft |
I once lined up against a '70 Mustang with 454 Rat engine and a "glide" tranny. It was purely a bracket car, trailered, 12" slicks, ran on race gas, and had wheelie bars. This was test & tune night, so it didn't count for anything. I nailed him on the tree and actually beat him to about the 330' mark. The rest of course was history. I talked to him afterwards. He said he just got the car and was only trying it out. He said he was building a Ford 502 that was in progress and would run it as a bracket racer with a C-6. He didn't like the idea of crossbreeds either.
Rev ------------------ '66 Coupe, 306, 300 HP, C-4, 13.97 e.t., 100.3 mph 1/4 mi. |
Hmm...seems my boys over there like the idea better than you guys here....I just figured since most of the hardcore 5.0 guys are always bitching about how crappy the 4.6 modular performs they might like the idea.
It's just that the idea came when I was cruising and saw a new GT but it looked very stock. I figured (unless it was a sleeper) I would be an A$$hole if I revved at him so I just went on my way. After that I was thinking that when mine is paid off I could probabbly buy a stang and do the swap. Imagine the surprise for some SS that gets trounced by a "stock looking" GT...hehe... Only thing I have against Ford is the anemic engines they decide to put in their flagship sports coupes (excluding the Cobra R since it's a limited production model) but other than that I think the GT looks cool...We screw around with each other but when it comes down to it...It's really "US" (V8s) against "them" (ricers)...so I wouldn't mind having a stang and doing crazy $#!t like that to it...hehe Mike ------------------ 1999 Z28 M6 Arctic White, MTI-Clear Lid w/K&N, B&B Triflo, BMR STB, Pro 5.0 Power Tower, 160 Powerstat, HPP3, TB Coolant bypass, Ported MAF, Taylor 409 wires(10.4 mm), NGK TR-55s, Redline Synthetic Lubricants, K&N oil filter, AIM Screen name:POWRD BY LS1 |
My NA 351W puts out more power than an LS1. Why work so hard for less power? A 351W will actually fit correctly.
------------------ 351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible |
There is a guy here in Fritch who has been building Mustangs for some years and I've seen 5 of them and they do run. He's currently installing a 383 Chevy in an '82 LX coupe. He told my youngest son he's done this before and supposedly it ain't that hard to do. Seems like a big waste of a good Mustang to me but hey. . .different strokes!
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I'm not very familiar with Ford engines(which is one of the reasons I'm on this board) so I wanna ask a couple of things.
What is a 351W (Assuming that it stands for 351 Windsor, and the 351 is the cubic inches)? Second question: Was it ever stock on any Mustang? Number 3: How much power does it make in stock form? And finally (if the answer to the previous question is greater than 350hp): Why in God's name would you NOT put that in a newer model GT or Cobra? Addendum to last question: If it had been [in newer model stangs] I would have had a hell of a hard time deciding which to buy (Cobra/Z28) even with the price difference. Mike ------------------ 1999 Z28 M6 Arctic White, MTI-Clear Lid w/K&N, B&B Triflo, BMR STB, Pro 5.0 Power Tower, 160 Powerstat, HPP3, TB Coolant bypass, Ported MAF, Taylor 409 wires(10.4 mm), NGK TR-55s, Redline Synthetic Lubricants, K&N oil filter, AIM Screen name:POWRD BY LS1 |
gt, The sensible thing to do is to get a Ford crate engine 392 CI for about $6000. That's a stroked 351W. Carbureted and with headers they make 430 hp. This will fit in Fox bodied (5.0) Mustangs or older classic ones with few major alterations. Probably wont pass smog tests though. That would be a kick-a$$ combo for probably less than the LS1 swap. That's my $.02 anyway.
Rev ------------------ '66 Coupe, 306, 300 HP, C-4, 13.97 e.t., 100.3 mph 1/4 mi. |
Yep, 351 is the cubic inches same as the chevy 350 (like the ford 302/chevy 305), windsor for the plant, as there are also clevland and modified motors, which are different.
The ford crate 351 makes 385hp/385tq, whereas the gm equivelant 350 (i don't know the designation) makes 350/350. I don't really understand your last question....but i guess cause it'd cost a lot, and ford likes to make a profit on their products so that they don't go out of business or have to drop divisions. |
The answer to that last question is because these crate engines don't have to meet emissions standards. They are off the road only. Ford is committed to modular engines for production cars as Federsl law requires for emissions.
Rev ------------------ '66 Coupe, 306, 300 HP, C-4, 13.97 e.t., 100.3 mph 1/4 mi. [This message has been edited by Rev (edited 05-22-2001).] |
Ford didn't go with 351W because of CAFE standards, not emissions standards. My 351W puts out less emissions than my wife's 91 v6 Probe. It's the same one that went into the 93 Lightning. The gas mileage isn't much worse than stock either, so I really can't understand why Ford was so whimpy.
If you put one in, it should be an EFI setup. It will run better, give you more power and gas mileage, and is easier to tune. Go with TFS heads, TFS 351 intake, 77mm MAF and 70mm TB. I have an Crane Compucam 2040 (E303), but you might want something with more lift. I went with E303 since I wanted to pass emissions. I eat SS Camaros for snacks. I'd like to say that about Corvettes, but you know who drives them. http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/smile.gif |
I thought the 351 Windsor actually equated out to 352 cubic inches. I'm pretty sure it does, just like the 428 is actually 425 cubic inches.
Anemic engines...Yes...Can they be made to Haul A$$ cheaply...Definetly....Made faster than an LS-1 for cheaper than the cost of a new Camaro...Damn right. http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/biggrin.gif [This message has been edited by Mercury (edited 05-23-2001).] |
Approximately 351.85ci so I guess you're right. http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/biggrin.gif
It can be installed and make more power than an LS1 for less money than it would be to try to adapt an LS1 to go into a Mustang. ------------------ 351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible [This message has been edited by jimberg (edited 05-23-2001).] |
Something I noticed while flipping thourgh the newest Jegs and other assorted performance catalogs. They dont have crap when it comes to aftermarket LS-1 parts. A page or two for the LS-1 and LT-1s but you have 4-5 pages for the 4.6.
[This message has been edited by Mercury (edited 05-23-2001).] |
Quote:
------------------ 95GT B303 cam, 1.7 rockers, 65mm TB, 73mm MAF, milled heads, 355's K&N, BBK Longtubes, Flowmaster cat back, pulleys, msd coil, 9mm wires, Tremec 3550, Pro5.0 shifter,10.5 Motorsport clutch, FMS aluminum driveshaft, weld in subframe connectors |
You won't hear me complaining about the 4.6L anymore. They make a solid 260hp now. Some of the guys are running high 13's bone *** stock. They have since 99.
#1 351W does stand for 351 Windsor. The engine was made at the Windsor, Ontario plant. The 351 does actually come out to 352ci, but Ford named it the 351 to avoid confusion with the 352 Y block, which was a complete turd a few years before. I believe it came out in the 50's? #2 Yes, the 351W came stock on several Mustang's. It could be paired up in a 1969-1973 Mustang. After that, it briefly reappeared in the 1995 Cobra R. Other than that, you had to have a Saleen modified Mustang, from 1994-1999 to get the 351. #3 The 351W made a underrated 280hp, 340lb/ft in the 1995 Cobra R. That was with a Cobra intake, GT-40 heads, and a mild cam. The Saleen 351's made signifcantly more. The S351's (s for supercharged) made up to 520hp in the Saleen cars. Most production 351's were pretty weak, it was more or less used as a truck engine. The block is significantly stronger than the block used for the 302, and that is one reason the engine is so popular with the Ford people. There are two more versions of the 351. The 351C, and the 351M. C for Cleveland, OH, and M for Modified. The Cleveland featured a semi hemi design for the heads, which allowed much larger valves, and a completely different block. It ended production in the 1970's. The 351M was availible till the early 80's I believe. The M was a 351W block, with 351C heads. IMHO, the stock 351W is by no means a gift from the engine gods. They have weak heads, and a weak cam, along with a weak intake. The 1995 Lightning and the 1995 Cobra R's are a little better in the intake area, but the cams and heads are still pretty sorry for the engine size. As far as not putting that engine into a GT or a Cobra, the 4.6L as proven in the 99+GT's is a good performer that is much smoother than the 351 and 302's. The DOHC Cobra has no reason to swap to a 351. That engine is detuned all to hell by Ford, and it's still makeing 340hp with the fix in 99+ cars, and over 300 in the 1996-1998 Cobra's. The lack of performance with these cars is Ford's decision to slap a 7k redline and crappy 3.27 gears with an engine that likes to stay above 5500rpm. With stock heads, cams, and intake, jmeiers on this board is running very low 12's@112mph with his Cobra. There is a ton of potential performance in those cars to be unlocked by the right mods. I'm also not a fan of cross breeds. |
There's really no substitute for cubic inches. 4-valve heads with DOHC helps build power in the upper rpms in the 4.6. You have to be geared correctly to use that though. 350-400 CI OHV roller cam engines with good heads and valve train (GT-40X, TW, or AFR's) and decent headers will always win and cost less too.
I'm speaking genericly here. Not really thinking of late model GT's or Cobras for engine swaps. More like classics and Fox bodies for this. I know that this was not the original thought in this topic. Still, it pertains. Rev ------------------ '66 Coupe, 306, 300 HP, C-4, 13.97 e.t., 100.3 mph 1/4 mi. [This message has been edited by Rev (edited 05-24-2001).] [This message has been edited by Rev (edited 05-24-2001).] |
Originally posted by Smokedawg:
I have thought about that idea too..My father has a brand new police interceptor motor(5.7) that he said he would put in my car if I wanted. All I would do i carbeurate it and go..He even said we could stroke it to a 383...After the problems I am having now w/this car I am thinking about it.. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ What kind of probs are you having? Fastang: Here are a few of my problems. This car can handle no stop and go driving situations..It gets to damn hot..like 240ish and higher sometimes to 250ish..I have put in a 3core radiator..Permacool fan..I took out the ac stuff and in front of the radiator even put a electric fan to push air into the radiator during stop and go driving..I put a 160degree thermostat and enginkool in it..I have no head gasket blown..I have fixed this prob a little with the electric fan but in long stop and go driving such as in the city, it still gets hot. Another problem is that once i drive it somewhere over about 10 miles and go into a store or somewhere and come back out..when i start it, it acts like its flooded..and sometimes it will just turn over and never fire..so after about 5 minutes of never firing finally for some reason it will just start right up then act flooded..Now once i get on the road i have no problem w/it acting flooded..so i have turned the fuel pressure down but when i do this my car wont rev pass like 5500 and it acts like its starving for fuel. So this car just now drives around my local town and right back home because i am afraid to drive it in fear of getting stranded somewhere or the motor detnating... Any suggestions that will help is much appreciated..Thanks ------------------ 347 Stroker Motor: Balanced, A9P Computer, Cobra Transmission, Extrude Ported and Polished Upper and ported Lower, GT40 Milled Ported and Polished Heads, B303 Cam, BBK 1 5/8 Headers, 30lb Bosch Injectors, Holley Fuel Regulator, March Underdrive Pulleys, Perma-Cool Fan, 3-Core Radiator, Accel Performance Coil, Accel 300+ Racing Wires, Ram Air, K&N Filter, 79mm Mass Air Unit, FlowMaster Exhaust w/BBK Offroad H-Pipe, Hurst Short Throw Shifter, 3:55 Gears, Ram Clutch, Cross Drilled Rotors, AC del [This message has been edited by Smokedawg (edited 05-25-2001).] |
I started a new topic in the Windsor forum to help Smokedawg. I thought it would be easier than sifting through the rest of this topic.
It's called "Smokedawg's Overheating and Driveability Issues" |
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