|
Life
Is there life on other planets?
Seems like a simple question, right? Looks are very decieving. What constitutes life? How would you know it even if you saw it? If there is life on another planet, did God create it? If a living thing on another planet dies, does it go to heaven? If God didn't create life on any other planet, yet it exists, and someone visits that planet an dies, do they go to heaven/hell? Do single celled organisms go to heaven? If they do, then by default, won't some go to hell? My head hurts. |
Re: Life
This is my kinda discussion!!:)
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I'll share with you my theory, I broke down and shared it here a few years ago.. guess I'll do it again. Atoms! Notice an atom. It has a nucleus, protons and electrons. The protons and electrons rotate the nucleus.. hmm.. sound familiar? The earth rotates the sun, the moons rotate the planets. It is my contention that we are just a small part on an atom. We can't see what's on the electrons and protons at this point, unless I missed something. I believe that we are just a part of something much much greater. We could be, and probably are, something about the size of a grain of sand(or even less) in the greater scheme of things. Where does that leave us? Insignificant as hell and some of us just can't have that, can we? At this point, how do we know that another whole universe/atom doesn't exist on an electron? We don't. I'm gonna reach out there now... how do we know that we aren't being watched.. kinda like a kid with an ant farm?? Hmm.. yes, these thoughts have crossed my mind.. |
Life!
Well, you can look at it in many different ways! I have a science background and have two college degrees. I question most everything. I wonder if everything is created by God as I was taught as a child growing up. I do believe in a higher power, b/c there are too many miracles out there to not believe in something. Who is to say that God didn't created the first human being and scientist have trace that orgin. Nobody knows what Adam and Eve looked like. Who knows they may have been ape like. No one knows! Of course, my science background understands the creation of life. Cells are formed from chemicals, who is to say that the chemicals form Adam. In the bible, it saids that God create Adam by molding dirt and sand together. Dirt and sand could be these very chemicals. Scientists are watching Mt. St. Helen area after it erupted to see life forming as a new beginning. Maybe in time, probably not in our life time, scientist will know. Of course, the bible was translated by man, who is to say he didn't created false theories. As I have said, I question everything. No one knows, way life is the way it is. To be honest, I do believe in believing in God. When life is really bad, by wrong choices, people doing you wrong, and just bad luck, it is nice to have faith that life will be better. It is bad to not have any faith and want to give up on life. Just my views. Science is based on questioning everything and trying to find the truth. |
I have been developing my own theory about life and God. Basically, I believe in God and the He/she created everything there is in the universe. I also believe that God doens't care as much about what we do as the Church would have us believe. We are a failed experiment. A rough draft.
I think we still go to heaven, but not hell. Church has the entire world fooled about hell. The punishment for sin is not eternal damnation. The punishment is death. I had better stop. If I get too deep into it, I'll be here all night. |
Damn dude, you need to think this through alittle more. The punishment for sin, as far as Adam and Eve was concerned, is death. Supposedly we all die because Eve convinced Adam to partake of the apple. If she hadn't done that, according to scriptor, we all would life forever.
Think about this alittle more..I'll tell you something else. If you aren't happy with what one church is telling you, research a diffent domination... they are all different. When you are ready to free yourself from all that BS give me a call.:) |
I don't attend a church. I don't think I will ever attend one again. I just listen to things I overhear, read, so on and so on. Certain people I include in my circle, via CD or book, help me to realize that I have to make up my own mind.
I don't give into the whole BS church spews out. And believe me it's mainly BS. Take the whole Santity(sp?) of Life arguement. What makes life so sacred? Why is it that only certain life forms are considered sacred while the rest are systematically destroyed? Mosquitos, flys, rats, spiders, snakes, etc. All of those are generally killed by these "Life is Sacred" bible thumpers, the very second they see one. Or they set traps for them and let the animal suffer an agonizing death. "If everything that ever lived is dead, and Everything alive is going to die, where does the sacred part come in?"(I quoted this from George Carlin) Cancer. What should be done about Cancer? It is a living organism, yet it kills more people that Hitler. Personally I say find a way to wipe it out. I'm sure that the Church doesn't think that Cancer is somehow sacred. Not to get into the Gay Marrage thing, but who are we to tell to grown adults what they can or can not do? If two sausage smokers want to tie the knot, have at it. It doesn't affect me one way or the other. People need to stop forcing their ideas onto the masses of this country, and the country as a whole needs to stop listening to them. Tell Jerry Fallwell to Eat Shit, and shut the **** up!! I wonder how many people are going to be or already are upset about this post? (Who got me on this soap box anyway? :rolleyes: ) |
Quote:
I believe that when we die, we just continue to go about our daily lives , not realizing we are dead. Why do you think people see ghosts doing ordinary, everyday activities, as though they are still alive. As far as they know, they are. |
1) Is there life on other planets?
Seems like a simple question, right? Looks are very decieving. 2) What constitutes life? How would you know it even if you saw it? 3) If there is life on another planet, did God create it? If a living thing on another planet dies, does it go to heaven? 4) If God didn't create life on any other planet, yet it exists, and someone visits that planet an dies, do they go to heaven/hell? 5) Do single celled organisms go to heaven? If they do, then by default, won't some go to hell? 6) My head hurts. 7) I have been developing my own theory about life and God. Basically, I believe in God and the He/she created everything there is in the universe. I also believe that God doens't care as much about what we do as the Church would have us believe. We are a failed experiment. A rough draft. I think we still go to heaven, but not hell. Church has the entire world fooled about hell. The punishment for sin is not eternal damnation. The punishment is death. ========================================= Now, this may surprise some of you, but I'm not the wisest person in the world (nor do I claim to be).... yes I know, shocking, huh, but truth nonetheless.... :D Moreover, even the wisest person on this earth doesn't know everything and cannot answer every and all questions of the universe. 1a) Yes. It'd almost be unthinkable that we are the only life in this entire universe.... But do those beings come down and visit us? Have we seen them? No. 2a) Life. There are different forms of life. Going to the extreme, cancer is a different (lower) form of life-- not created by God, but a result of man's own doings. The life of man. Man is a living soul which consists of the dust of the ground and the breath of life (from God, the creator). When we die, the process is reversed. The breath of life returns to God and the body returns to dust (as you can see what happens to our bodies when we die....). 3a) If there is life on other planets, which there is (but I believe FAR outside our galaxy or even solar system), then God created them. They cannot be there if God had not created them. They do not die b/c they are not sinful, they are perfect. The only reason we die is b/c we are sinful. God did not create us sinful, he created us perfect. We messed up (and still do), not him (nor has he ever). 4a) God is the God of the universe. He is not bound by space, so if someone (from Earth) goes to another planet and dies there, they are still bound by the principles of God, wherever they are. 5a) Single cell organisms or things do not go to heaven or hell. Once they're done, they're done, like animals. Heaven or hell is only an issue for Satan, his angels (the plan of hell was originally for him and his angels, or "demons"), and humans who reject Christ as their saviour, or more specifically, reject the death that Christ died in place of theirs. 6a) I can tell mine is gonna hurt.... 7a) I believe in God as well and that He created everything in the universe and that He has always been. Hard to fathom. I also believe that people have created their own "gods". For every true thing, there is a counterfeit. However, those gods are only figments of imaginations and meaningless idols. I believe God cares about us infinitely more than any church could try to have me believe. Although most things that seem too good to be true are either bad or untrue, this is not. God created us perfectly and perfect. We messed up (sinned). We messed ourselves up. We had and have the freedom of choice to do so. True love is reciprocated through free choice, not forced or coerced. We are not a failed experiment or a rough draft. But even though true love is by choice, the results of messing up had/s consequences. The universal law is that the wages of sin (transgression of the law-- God's law) is death (eternal death, not eternal punishing). Note: ***God loves us more than any human has the capacity to love another, but similar to how parents love their children and doesn't want us to die that final death (the death we die now is only a pause, a "sleep" in life, not really death). In the death we die now, the spirit (or breath of life-- power of life) goes back to God temporarily and the body decays back to dust from which it was formed in the beginning with Adam. We cease to exist (temporarily) because we are no longer a "living soul" (see 2a). The final death is the ultimate death (true death) and those beings will be eternally nonexistent (not changed in form, or evolved to something else), more acurately eternally separated from God after they die that eternal death. They will experience that eternal separation right b4 they die and from then on will be eternally separated from God. Once that breath of life is taken away and returned back to God, it will never be returned to that person. That person will never again think, touch, smell, laugh, cry, have a CHANCE to be, or BE united with God. That is the eternal punishment for those who refuse Christ. Not eternal punishing, but eternal punishment, or eternal damnation.*** So..... God loved us so he had to make a way around us receiving the punishment for sin. So what did he do? He sent his "son" (God puts things in terms that we as humans can relate to) who came in human flesh to to this planet to die that death in OUR place, which he died in 31 AD (another human could not have done that b/c he would have to die for his own sins, only Christ was perfect, so he had no sins for which to die so our sins--all that were ever or ever will be committed-- were placed on him, and he volunteered himself for this). All that is now asked of us regarding salvation is that we accept that death in place of ours and God as our God, and worship him alone as creator, provider, and sustainer of all things (which is all for our benefit-- he doesn't NEED us, but he loves us and when we worship him and do what he tells us, life on earth will be better and the ultimate reward will be well worth any trouble on this earth-- but many of us are too prideful to submit to God's authority and don't understand the quintessence of the matter). This is not fantasy, it is absolute reality. Quote:
Hell is less of an issue of where and more of an issue of WHEN. There is no hell now (when we speak of the hell in which evildoers will burn). Remember, when man dies (good or bad) the breath of life returns to God, and the body decays away back to dust. Hell Where: Earth. Hell When: a little over 1000 years after Christ returns to Earth, sometime in the "relatively" near future. Hell is simply the final phase of annhilating sin and death from this earth/galaxy and all who reject Christ and choose a life of sin, will be destroyed with those sins, their god (Satan and his evil angels will also be destroyed at that time). God doesn't want to do this or enjoy this, but if left unnattended, sin will corrupt the entire universe. He wants to save us and pull us out of this mess. He provided and provides a means of escape. It has essentially nothing to do with "religion". Simply put, it is reality and life, just like breathing. One does not have to believe or disbelieve it for it to be. It is what it is-- quiddity. So yes, the punishment for sin is death-- eternal death/separation from God. Man, I know some of you are thinking I'm crazy, naive or stupid, just another "religious" fanatic, or living in a world of fantasy. What can I say, I'm just a plain guy who loves Mustangs who desires to know what absolute truth is. I obviously don't know it all, but I take time to study things out and live life. I'm not some mental case who is looking for a fantasy that I can retreat to to make my stay in this world a better place. This is not from brainwashing or what "my pastor told me". Everything cannot be explained with mathematical formulas. Man once thought the world was flat. If you really desire to know what truth is, you will find it. If you really want to know, you will search. Whether you act accordingly to that knowledge is up to you. If you just don't care, well, I really don't know what to say, but it is sad. One last thing, if you think all that I've typed is a bunch of foolishness and it makes you angry, that was not my purpose in typing it. I really hope you will care enough to search this stuff out one day for yourself. Don't let hypocritical "christians" or whatever group of people make you just say "screw it all, you really can't know what truth is." And, just b/c you may not understand something doesn't mean it is untrue. There is a saying I really believe in: "The single biggest cause of atheism in the world today, is christians, who profess Jesus with their lips, and walk out the door and deny him by their lifestyles. This is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable." Later guys. |
Re: Life
I'm not quite sure if this is a gag or not but I'll be a sport and attempt to respond.
Originally posted by bigwhitecobra: Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
Quote:
I do believe in other life than just ours. I dont believe in any heaven or hell. What would constitude life? I really dont know for sure but maybe something with some kind of response or action I guess. James:cool: |
If "god" created the universe and everything in it, and there is no life on other planets, only earth, why are there other planets? I personally think that there are many forms of life on many other planets. Do I think that our government needs to spend billions of dollars sending unmanned lunar explorers to Mars to see if there was ever any type of bacterial life? No, that is obsurd. There are many more important issues to spend the money on, that require our immediate attention.
|
dont take life to seriously................... you'll never get out alive
|
Looking for intelligent life in the universe
Originally posted by bigred90gt :
Quote:
Quote:
|
I really dodn't want to give off the wrong impression. I do believe in God and that he sent His son to die for our sins. I just believe there is another way to worship Him. I have a hard time believing anything that a human hand has written. The Bible is a good book, a fabulous way to live your life, but is it the word of God? I have a hard time believing that. Considering the fact that there are books of the Bible that the Catholic church decided to omit because it took away from what they wanted the masses to know. I wish I could remember the names of the books. I'll go look for them.
My statement was meant to just open a discussion about the topic in a civil manor. No more, no less. If anyone took offense, sorry, and in the same breath, grow up. How can you learn if you won't talk about it? People are free to believe whatever they want to believe. They are free to think what they want to think. But with that should come a sense of responsibility by the church to educate the people so that they can be better informed. You'd be surprised at what the Bible will teach you, even if you don't trust it, like me. I just believe what my heart tells me. Right or wrong. As long as you follow your heart you can never go wrong. Later. |
The Bible
Originally posted by bigwhitecobra :
Quote:
You ask: is it the Word of God? My reply is: Yes. Inspired by God and written by men. The Gospels are a first-hand account of the life of Christ and the rest of the New Testament contains reams of valuable instruction as to how a Christian should live. Even the allegorical Book of Revelation is instructive and gives us a hint of things to come. To claim a solid belief in God and Christ and then just assume that the bible is a lie, as the non-believers do, is absurd, in my opinion. Where do you think your knowledge of God and Christ came from? Parents, church teaching? Fine. Where did that originate from? The Bible. The question of the Catholic Church adding and subtracting Books in the bible is well known and one reason why there was a split between the 'Protestant' and Catholic church centuries ago. As a fundamentalist Christian, I cannot speak to Catholic doctrine or history except that I reject most of what I know of it, including the manipulation of scripture in centuries past. Still, I maintain that an omnipotent God would not allow eveil men to change or subtract from His Word. He is the power, not some church 'leader' no matter how big his hat is. On that basis, I accept the bible as the inerrent Word of God. Others are free to differ, as they do and will. Apparently you are one. So be it. Your choice. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
To get a better explaination of what I am talking about, explain EXACTLY what you did today. To the letter. I know I can't. I don't think anyone can. So how can someone else wring EXACTLY what you did, with out leaving something out or embelishing something to compensate for what you forgot.
Thats all I was trying to get across. Nothing more. I love my God. I try to do the best I can to live right y Him. Everyone has thier own relationship with Him and thier own ideas of what kind of relationship that should be. I hope that made sense. If not I'll try to do better. Anyway, I see where you are coming from and I agree to a certain extent. But I don't feel like typing anymore. I am one tired puppy. I'll post tomorrow. Later. |
The Bible
Originally posted by bigwhitecobra :
Quote:
Secondly (and most important): God inspired and directed the complication of the bible. He is infallible (or he wouldn't be God). He did not depend on the feeble memories and recording abilities of mortal men - He inspired them, guided them, whether they realized it or not at the time. That understood, I have never believed that He would allow any mortal man to change, distort or otherwise lie to mankind for 2,000 years in God's name. That would be ridiculous. As Christianity is based wholly on the bible, to claim it's wrong, a lie, distorted or even, simply 'inaccurate' would render it useless as a basis for what you and I believe and make our faith totally pointless and empty. It is clearly not. While the bible has been attacked and picked apart by many men for centuries it stands as God intended: His Word. God's 'instruction book' for how to know Him, find salvation and live a life that God approves of while looking forward to eternal life with Him. Quote:
|
Ok, that sounds good in theory. The problem with that is if I wrote the Bible and didn't want anyone to dispute it, I'd just say it was the word of God. How can you argue with God? How can we prove or disprove what someone wrote thousands of years ago?
We can't. All we can do is look at human nature and guess. I hate to use that word, but that's what it is. Guessing. Some call it faith, whatever the word, the end is the same........you'll find out when you die. Live your life as best you can, enjoy your life, and do the best you can. So what to think? Is the Bible the word of God, or is it ebellished to fit what the church want you to think is the word of God? Either way, what's the difference, right? I mean, does the church endorce slavery? If not, then why is it that slavery was so common a few hundred years ago? During that time the church had such a huge influence on people's lives, it's hard to think that the church just sat idlely by and let thier congregation buy and sell slaves. Homosexuality is another issue that has been around since the beginning of time. All throughout history there has been homosexual activity. It probably started out as being a asertation of social stature. This is guess as of the mind set, seeing as how I am not gay, I have no idea as to what makes one man want to have sex with another. I think it's best to forget this part and move on, as long as we realize that even in the church there is MAJOR homosexual activity, involving the Priests. If they feared hell as the Bible states it, you'd think that would be enough to deter them, again just guessing here. I don't know the answer, nor do I claim to know. I just like to ask questions and be asked questions. I like to learn as much as I can. If I end up teaching someone something, it is merely by accident, and not intended. Probably as much as you don't intend on teaching. Either way, I need a beer. Can I pour anyone else one? |
I thought I would throw in a couple:
http://www.cds.caltech.edu/~shane/im...es-walmart.jpg http://www.allfunpix.com/humor/pics3/eatfetus.jpg :D James:cool: |
Quote:
|
Well, normally I stay out of debates, but its been a while so what the heck:D
*Please understand that I take none of this personally, nor is it ment personally, but in the spirit of debate and learning only* As to the question of life on other planets in the universe: Absolutly. Statistically, its inevitable. Also, you have to apply the correct definition of "life" which as was noted earlier was the ability to grow, reproduce, (and some might add have a survival instinct). That leaves the field open for anything from single cell organisims to sentients. Now as to why it hasent flown in and landed on the white house lawn: If you were advanced enough to travel the stars, would you really want to come to the home planet of "The Jerry Springer show"? As to the other theological questions, I AM the agnostic that your mother warned you about<g> My framework of "spiritual" belief is based in science, with a little intuition mixed in, a bit of practicality,and a dash of gut feeling. I believe in the spirit/soul, its energy we have not been able to quantify. So is all matter. (Matter is just energy slowed down to a measurable state) Energy cannot be destroyed, just transformed. Therefor, that part of us, the thing that makes us sentient doesent "end" or dissolve or go away at death. it is merely "disbersed" or transformed to a higher frequency. As to what this is like to the recently dead soul, I have no firm idea, but it may depend on what that person believed. (Making heaven and hell a self fulfilling prophecy) As to God: I dont believe that there is a humaniod figure watching over the universe, like Zeus on olympus, waiting for folks to slip up, etc. Personally, I think that if there is any type of sentient force in the universe that meets the requirements of "godhood" it wouldnt care less what were doing. It would be like us worrying about what a single atom composing a single molicule in a single blood cell was doing. As to Holy books across the board, I think its a case of blind men and elephants. The big drawback to them, especially monotheistic ones, are that they tend to promote an "us vs them/I'm right, your wrong" mentality amongst the followers, and by nature are perfectly suited for gaining and maintaining control over large groups of people. Even the best of intentions can be, over time perverted, and the true nature lost. A classic example of this would be the KJV. Lets think about that for a sec, this is the King James Version of the bible. It is a fact that when James comissioned a "retranslation" of the bible from (I believe latin) some of the scripture was changed. The line "Suffer not a witch to live" is famous ,but wrong. The original word ment "poisioner" or corruptor. Meaning someone who used power to do evil. It was changed to cover any type of "Pagan", since James was having a bit of trouble at the time with the Heathens who werent keen on his being their king. The Catholic church co-opted Mithrinism [sp?] and most of their symbology and holidays whole to gain more control of conquered lands. Anyway, \rant, enough for right now;) Some quotes I'd like to refer to before I go. Mr 5.0: [The Christian belief is that God orchestrated the creation of the universe. We cannot know the exact process involved as the bible only tells us that God 'declared' the 'heavens' into being. That may have been accomplished instantly but it could have taken 10 billion years.] Its refreshing to see a christion that recognizes that point. bo55: dont take life to seriously................... you'll never get out alive AMEN, and remember, "On a long enough timeline everyones survival rate drops to zero". bigredgt: I believe that when we die, we just continue to go about our daily lives , not realizing we are dead. Why do you think people see ghosts doing ordinary, everyday activities, as though they are still alive. As far as they know, they are. Personally I think that most ghosts are just "echos" of the energy they had when they were alive, hence why they keep doing to same thing over and over. A true ghost (as opposed to apprition) are those rare ones that are seen to react to the current world/ do different things. Rbatson: To think there isn't life on another planet just goes to show how humans are natured to feel self important. Its rediculous! We are. I guess it started as a survival trait. Then it became a security blanket. Mr 5.0 As a fundamentalist Christian, I cannot speak to Catholic doctrine or history except that I reject most of what I know of it, including the manipulation of scripture in centuries past. The books Bigwhitecobra was referring to are called the Gnostic gospels. An interesting read. They cover the rest of Jesus' life. Fox body: I believe in God as well and that He created everything in the universe and that He has always been. Hard to fathom. I also believe that people have created their own "gods". For every true thing, there is a counterfeit. However, those gods are only figments of imaginations and meaningless idols. See us vs them mentality bigwhitecobra I have no idea as to what makes one man want to have sex with another. I think it's best to forget this part and move on, as long as we realize that even in the church there is MAJOR homosexual activity, involving the Priests. If they feared hell as the Bible states it, you'd think that would be enough to deter them, again just guessing here. That would be assuming that the believed what they professed, instead of using it as a control device. Fox Body: This is not fantasy, it is absolute reality. According to a 2000+ year old book, whos various authors are not concretely identified, that has gone through several alterations. There are several other 2+k year old books out there that claim the same thing. Whos right? Reality is a very subjective thing. Mr 5.0: I find it interesting that while we take history about the great names and deeds of the ancient past almost without question, so many find the bible, one of the greatest books ever written that has survived many attempts to ban it, destroy it and condemn it for two thousand years, 'questionable' because it was written by human beings. The difference is that most of us are not willing to stake ours and/or others lives on historical fact. "relegious fact" tends to get those that dont believe it killed by those who do. Hence why relegious doctrine should be scrutinized a bit more. And a quote about humanity in general: "Nobodys perfect. (Well there was this one guy, but we killed him. )" Anyway folks, thats it for me right now, J "Boy, you're just pissin' everybody off today!"---MIB :D |
The Bible
Originally posted by bigwhitecobra :
Quote:
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. - 1 Cor 1:18 How true. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Not every one who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father Who is in heaven. On that day many will say to Me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your Name, and cast out demons in Your Name, and do many mighty works in Your Name?' And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you evildoers.' - Matthew 7:21-23 RSV The point in that scripture is that simply acting 'religious' and saying the 'right' words or doing the 'correct' rituals means nothing to God, who see's what's in our hearts and judges us by that, not our superficial acts or our pious words. Those who claim to 'represent' God and sin against His commands, such as pedophile priests, have much to answer for on Judgement Day. I would not wish to be them on that 'Great and Mournful Day' as the old hymn calls it. Quote:
This is why I try to avoid debates, in person or on the web, with atheists. They reject the bible as a lie and claim Jesus is/was a fraud. We have nothing to say to each other at that point. I receive what I know about God and Christ from scripture: His Word. If you reject it, then we are just going to debate small points and as I cannot produce God on demand and the atheist cannot prove He doesn't exist, we just frustrate each other and nothing is gained by the debate. I wish you well in your search for truth and I trust that you'll come back to the bible one day and realize it is what it has always been: the inerrant Word of God. |
Wow..Been a while since I've surfed the Blue Oval Lounge. Jut my kind of debate, having a strong science back ground, and just as strong on intrest in astronomy I feel I must chime in.
Mr 5.0 made the comment about Life and its proxomity to us (earth). The Hubble Telescope was not designed for searching for extra terrestrial life (Single Cell, civilazations, what ever). There are several places in our solar sytem alone that could possibly have life on them. One is Europa, an icy moon of Jupiter. Below its surface ice lays Briny oceans and slush. Europa has constant tidal forces stretching it. The jupiter and the sun constantly causing a tug of war which creates heat (Jupiters moon IO is very strong visual evidence of that process). They believe Europa has volcanic vents deep in its oceans that may spawn, and feed life such as our own oceans have and do. Some beleive, though fancifull thinking in my book, that it may be beyond simple celled organsims and have progressed to aquatic life similar to that that is in our seas. Titan, a moon of Saturn is the only moon in our system to have an atmoshpere (Mostly methane..dont light a match =) )..and its in between the pressure of earths and venus (Quite a range there). It has mysetrious reflective spots on its surface that can be attributed to lakes of natural gas. The gasses, and presence of storms also lead to the possibility of life..simple life. There are missions on the slate to go to titan..infact one is on its way there now. I am personally excited by such things. As for the hubble being used to detect life as mentioned earlier...has anyone here seen a picture of Pluto taken by the Hubble??? You'd be surprised. No details are resolved, for the Hubble does not have the optic ability to resolve details of such a small object at such a distance. It is not going to see a planet directly thats around another star..no matter how close it is. It can detect the tug that a planet does on the star, because the star will woble, it can also detect when a planet gets between the star, and us by a change in light emitions, and spectroscope readings (Thats how they can get an idea of what the planets atmosphere is)...other than that..thats it. I believe that there is life out there..and intelligent life at that. I am willing to bet money on it...now if we ever contact it in my life time..thats another thing. We dont know as much as we could, or as much as most people think. We can blame funding and budgeting for that. Well, I would love to type more, but I have to get back to work now. |
I love these kinds of discussions. There is no way of proving any of these arguements. Proof. Concrete evIdence. At least as of now. None of us can die and tell the rest what happens and whether or not there is a heaven, hell, God, etc.
Who knows, we may be really far off with this whole God thing. Chances are we aren't. Someone, or some thing had to "spark" this whole thing into motion. Why are we so dead set on believing that we are the only life in this universe? Let me refrase that.....Intelligent life. Evolved life. If another planet has life on it at the same level of sophistiation as us, wouldn't that add to God's spender? And where does it say in the Bible that God didn't create life on other planets? Uh, I'm gettng off subject yet again. I gotta stop writing when I'm tired.....really. Maybe we were meant to look for other life, and teach it about God. New question.......if and whe we find another civilization on another planet, and we begin teaching them about God, are we supposed to teach them about Christ? Did he come to Earth to die for thier sins too? Or do you think God sent His son to that planet to die for thier sins? Or does he have more than one Son? The Sons of God. Kinda creepy. Yeah, too many beers today. |
God and Aliens
Originally posted by bigwhitecobra :
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
While it's fun to speculate a bit, wasting too much time on the 'what if's' of possible other worlds and beings and God's interaction with them and not enough on what we already know about God, Christ and the plan of salvation is not productive. God is in charge and He takes care of all the details of running the universe and our world. Our job is to love and serve Him and not be concerned with what we cannot know, much less have any effect on, such as other beings on other planets 'out there'. Quote:
|
As a general response to your post, I was merely getting some questions off my mind. It helps me concentrate. As funny as that sounds, it's true. In all the confusion and noise in my mind, the truth tends to stand out. Kinda like a multiple choice question. You get a certain numbers answers, two are usually just plain bizarre. One is close, but you can still the fecal matter drying. And then there was one. That's gotta be it, right?
Ok so this isn't a good example, but you get the point. As far as the rest goes, I still feel like there is someother way to God other than the Bible. Now before everyone gets that little vein in thier forhead thumping, hear me out, and this time, listen. The Bible is, to a certain extend, The Word of God. I don't believe that it is word for word, exact truth. It's the word of God, just not in the literal since. The basics are there, and in that, it is the truth. As God meant it to be. People take it too far and put thier two cents worth in. By that I mean in the Bible itself. Not anyone here, ok? We cool? Sweet! Take for instance, Did Jesus walk on water, calm a storm, and calm his disciples? No. I get the message though. Without Jesus in your life you're like a ship in a storm. Tossed about the waves of life, about to drown. But Jesus can calm the seas of your life and bring you safely to your destination.....Heaven and everlasting peace. If Jesus had actually walked on the water, calmed the storm, and so forth, wouldn't that be the same as when he was tempted by the devil? I mean certainly, He could have, being the Son of God, but would He? Would that not be against all of His teachings?(the use of His power, or whatever) Now, I can't think of anything as an arguement about the people He healed or Lazerus, but hey there is one somewhere....lol(just kidding there). Anyway, I gotta go study for school before my girlfriend kicks my arse. Later. |
Heres an interesting Tid Bit of info. Relatively new.
Okay.. They found Methane in the atmosphere of mars. Its source due to parts per atmosphere is thought to be still active. Now, there are a few things that can count for Sulphur in the martian atmosphere. 1. Volcanism. Which is intersting because mars has thought to have cooled off. To find that its still somewhat volcanically active would be facsinating to me. 2. Bioligical activity. Methane is the biproduct of every bioligical creature (No Fart Jokes) Even bacteria. Hmmmm...either way..be it we find Microbial life, or if Olympus Mons blows its top (Wont happen, there are no signs..but.) Its fascinating in my book. |
Bibical confusion
Originally posted by bigwhitecobra :
Quote:
Quote:
I've been listening to all the various and sundry versions of 'The Bible isn't literally true' for most of my life. You have nothing new to offer to that proposition here. I hope you don't think your questioning is something original. The bible has been called 100 different versions of a lie and a 'fairy tale' for 2,000 years. Usually by those who don't wish to follow it's commands and instructions. Sound familiar? The atheists generally claim that Jesus was a nice man with good ideas about loving others, yada yada, yada but of course, He was not God in the flesh. That denies both God and Christ - which is why they are atheists. When you claim to believe the bible is the Word of God, then say it's full of fake stories disguised to fool people to believe things that are 'good for them', you mock the Word you claim you believe is from God. Trying to have it both ways: saying you 'believe' in God, Jesus Christ as Savior and the Bible, then deny a lot of what the bible says is in any way literally true. This is not uncommon with the conflicted that want to believe in God and Jesus but don't want to really obey either one. It's disingenuous and renders your claims of 'belief' rather hollow when you deny the source those beliefs stem from. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
Wow, looks as though I hit one hell of a nerve there.
I'm not calling the stories from the Bible a fairy tale, or some other fantasy writing. I was merely stating that I don't personally believe that he walked on water. Unless you count mud puddles with a depth of less than 1/4". I am saying that I understand the story, and it's meaning. And for the meaning intended, it is truth. But not in the way it is written. You are confusing magic with physics. I'm not asking for Jesus to come back to Earth just to show me that he can walk on water. It would help, but I'm not asking. I think that in the story of the storm and the walking on water thing, it gives us the message that Christ can and will be there for us no matter where we are in the world, no matter the time, no matter the place. He will come to us if we ask Him to. For those that ask HIm to come, and then doubt that He is with you, you begin to sink, and yet He will still save you. I, at no time, said that the Bible was a great piece of fiction. Or some grand Fairy Tale. I believe the Bible is, in it's basic sense, the word of God. The truth is there, you just have to get around all the HUMAN errors. Look at it this way. When Jesus was asked about adultry, He only stated that for a woman to remarry while her husband was still alive, divorced or not, she was an adultress. Nothing was said of man. Could it be that men are meant to go aout and screw as many women as possible? No. I'm going off of memory, so this is not word for word. So if I am wrong, and I'll find out as soon as I get home from school, I will be the first to post it. In the mean time, feel free to pick me apart. You were going to anyway, but at least now you are invited. Have a good day. And don't forget to wash your brain....uh I mean hands. Heh heh, couldn't resist, I'm sorry for that, but I have ot leave it. It's just funny. Really, have a good day, and I mean no ill will. Later. |
Beware of 'personal interpretations' of the bible
Originally posted by bigwhitecobra :
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
‘If a man is found sleeping with another man’s wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die. You must purge this evil from Israel.’ - (Deuteronomy 22:22) Jesus described adultery in the Sermon on the Mount. Jesus said: "I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart." (Matthew 5:27-30). Notice that Jesus said anyone, not just married men. This is all men, married and unmarried. So if Jesus said that an unmarried man looking lustfully upon a woman has committed adultery in his heart, would it not be safe to say that a unmarried man who has sex with a woman has committed adultery? Sex is to be between husband and wife. That's all. Too bad many who take the name 'Christian' refuse to accept, much less honor this command, but that doesn't make it any less valid. Quote:
|
Quote:
I never said that the Bible was a lie. Nor did I say that it was Garbage. I said that I believe that it is exagerated. No more no less. I don't deny that Jesus performed miracles. But you have to take a look at the time period that these miracles took place and how desprated these people were to have something to believe in. Jesus promissed that when they died, they would assend into heaven, where the streets were paved with gold, and so on. Hell, I'd want to follow Him to the ends of the Earth and then some. I do now. But let's be a little more realistic. Jesus turned water into wine, cool. Magicians do that same trick today, and people believe that the guy on stage is really doing it. Hell, I can turn water into Kool-Aid in mere seconds, doesn't make it a miracle. I don't deny that Jesus turn water into wine in front of a bunch of people at a wedding. All I am saying is that there are plenty of ways to do the same thing, in front of a live audience. Doctors bring people back from the dead everyday, granted, they don't just touch them and bam they're healed. But they do heal people. Miracle or not, it happens. Not to take anything away from Jesus. He gave the blind sight, the crippled could walk, the lepors were healed, you know it better than me. All that I am saying is that from a certain point of veiw anything is a miracle. You just have to sort through the non sense to find true meaning. Does that mean that I am completely wrong in regards to the Bible? I don't know. Maybe. What I believe is based partly on faith, and partly on human history. People believe what they are told to believe. Who killed JFK? Was it Oswald? Was it the FBI? Personally, I say it was the guy that pulled the trigger, whom ever it was. So why should the Bible be any different? It's a way of controlling the masses, as it is written. The church wants you to concentrate on what they want you to concentrate on. The church doesn't like gay marrage, so you shouldn't either. The church doesn't like abortion, so you better not either. History is filled will religious fanatics forcing thier will on others. Some of the bloodiest, most brutal wars were fought based on religious hatred. All because someone gave the wrong answer to the God Question. "Do you believe in God?" "No" bang dead "Do you believe in God?" "Yeah" "Do you believe in MY God?" "No" bang dead Religion isn't so much about believing in what a book tells you to believe, but believing that God loves you, and created everything for you. He gave His Son for you. His Son loves you, and wants you to love Him for the grace He so freely gave to us. Get caught up in a book if you want to, but you might miss the whole point of being here. Books come and go, but God is here forever. Later. |
Bibical truth - and bibical ignorance
Originally posted by bigwhitecobra :
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I've attempted, as a Christian believer, to point out your unfortunate error in dismissing the validity of the bible, as atheists do (you sound just like them in many ways...you've obviously been influenced by them at some point) but you choose to blithly ignore whatever doesn't fit what you've chosen to believe and what you're obviously now comfortable with. You apparently think that Christianity is just God wanting everyone to 'be happy' all the time, as long as you acknowledge Him, which is naive and again, shows almost no understanding of what Jesus taught. I can't change what you've chosen to buy into but I can tell you that it's in very sharp conflict with fundamental Christianity, to put it mildly. You deny the supremacy of God's Word and try to compare Jesus' miracles to modern-day entertainers and doctor's operations. How sad - and how bibically ignorant that is. I don't wish to insult you but some of your statements here are simply bizarre and I cannot comment on them with anything less than incredulity and amazement at your shallowness in your understanding of scripture. I believe you are trying to combine what you claim to believe about God and Christ with the world's jaded and negative view of 'religion' and the bible. That never works. Jesus warned that you cannot serve Two Masters. You can't buy into the secular world's rejection of the bible as a book with no real power, much less being directly from God, and still try to claim Christ as your savior when you deny the one, original place He is always called Savior and where He claims the nature of God: the bible. Both Jesus and the bible are take-it-or-leave-it propositions. Jesus isn't 'sort of' our savior and the bible isn't half-true and really just a book written to 'control' us. How can a book you reject as written by mere men 'control' anyone? It cannot, unless you acknowledge that it's power is from God, not a bunch of long-dead men trying to 'control the masses' - classic atheist dogma - and you willingly repeat it here, just like any hardcore atheist would. It's sad but we all make our choices as people with Free Will. Your's denies the bible - the very source of Christianity - yet you continue to claim to be a 'Christian'. How, I don't know, as you deny the basis of what Christianity was founded on. You're kidding yourself here but I can see you will remain unswayed in your non-belief so I won't burn up any more of the site's bandwidth to keep telling you the same things while you reply with ridiculous comparisons and inane statements about scripture and Jesus' power. I have better things to do, as I'm sure you do. You've honestly made your beliefs known and I've attempted to show you the error of those beliefs and bibical denials. I can do no more. That being the case, you are free to have the 'last word' in this lengthy exchange as I have nothing more to add other than to hope (and pray) that someday before it's too late you'll awake to the folly of your denials and accept the bible for what it is and what it says. As always, that will be your choice and someday when you stand before God, as we all will, you will have the opportunity to answer for it - as we all will answer to Him for our acceptance or rejection of Him and His Word. I wish you well as you - one fervently hopes - grow in your faith. |
With all the talk of god (as he is represented in the bible) and Jesus, and how the bible is right in all accounts, where does that leave the other religions of the world? Islam, Budhism, so forth and so on? Are they all a bunch of bs, because they are not the word of your god? What about the gods of the Native Americans? Are they a bunch of crap too because they are not your god? If that is how you feel, I must say you are narrow minded and will hopefully one day see the truth for what it is. (Jim, thats not aimed directly at you, but, all those claiming that the bible is the only word to live by and that the god represented therein, is the one, the only almighty god).
|
All roads do not lead to God
Originally posted by bigred90gt :
Quote:
The Bible is God's Word and yes, you either accept it as such and thus, Christianity, or you do not. Jesus was either the Son of God and mankinds one and only savior - or a liar and a madman. He either died and was resurrected or it's all a big fat lie. You cannot half-heartedly 'accept' the bible, or God or Jesus Christ. It's all or nothing. God outlines this many times in scripture. As for the religions you mention: yes, they are false. They all conflict mightily with both each other and Christianity. They can in no way all 'lead to God' as they make vastly different claims about God and other spiritual issues. That conflict renders them false, no matter how big their membership may be. Christians do see 'the truth': the bible, the Word of God. Not the Koran or some other 'sacred' book. We all make a choice: you can't subscribe to all the world's religions at one time. That's ridiculous if you have even the slightest knowledge about 'religion' and what they claim to be 'the truth'. The habit of calling those who accept the bible as the Word of God and so, freely accept Jesus as the Son of God and, as He stated: "The way, the truth and the life" (the ONLY way to God) as 'narrow-minded' is lame. Are Muslim's 'narrow-minded'? How about those Native Americans you mentioned who worshiped nature? Are they 'narrow-minded', too? Get real. All religions claim to be exclusive. I stand on the bible and in a broader sense, Christianity, based on Jesus Christ as savior - the ONLY savior for mankind given by God. That is my right and my choice to make, as we all do. To mock it as somehow too 'exclusive' (not including other religions as equal) simply demonstrates a lack of understanding the very faith you dismiss as 'narrow-minded'. You can believe what you want, of coures, but if you think every major religion is somehow equal, you obviously know very little about any of them and are simply speaking from ignorance here. It happens a lot when 'religion' comes up. |
I was actually going to call it quits on this discussion until the last two posts. It brought up a good point, but with the wrong question. Christianity is obviously the one and only correct, if you will, religion. But which denomination is the right one? Catholic, Babtist, Morman, Chruch of Christ? Yada yada yada.
One of them has to be more right than the other ones. Am I the only one that thinks this is all just bunch of crap? This religion is right and the rest are crap, but inside that religion are other more complicated sectors of said religion, each believing the way they believe is the correct way and the others are crap. What is going on here? Someone figure it out and let me know which is the correct one, so I don't have to waste anymore time with it. I'd hate to get it wrong and suffer the punishment because I was Catholic, instead of Babtist. (For example) See my point here? I know......they are all the same. God says all that believe in Him and His Son dying for us shall be saved. Romans 10:9 and 10: That if thou shalt confess of they mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. Now since I am not an educated man, please explain this to me. I have my opinion of this verse, but I am batting 0 right now, and would like to hear someone else's idea. Later. |
"We are all atheists, some of us just believe in fewer gods than others. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
-- Stephen F. Roberts |
Looking for the 'right' Christian church
Originally posted by bigwhitecobra :
Quote:
No 'denomination' is the 'right one'. Basic Christianity - fundamental Christianity, if you will, is based totally on scripture and accepts the bible as the literal Word of God, as I've already explained here, in detail. Within Christianity are many factions, all with differing doctrines and those are all man-made. That is, they are man's interpretations of scripture. One will say that a certain bibical passage forbids using musical instruments in a worship service, another will say that this or that passage really means this or that about modern-day life, etc, or as you would say: yada, yada, yada. They are basically just human opinions on the meanings of scripture and how we should worship and follow Christ. Some churches offer the Lord's Supper every week, others once a month, others, only once a year. On and on it goes. Quote:
You are quite correct that to be saved (from eternal separation from God - hell) one only has to accept God as sovereign, renounce sin and acknowledge Jesus as Savior and Lord in your heart and mind as well as to other men, in public, be baptized and then live as Jesus taught, bringing your sins and burdens to Him from that point on. That's far too 'easy' for some folks. Sadly, for some folks, salvation seems to be to 'easy', so they add on to it and make rules for others to follow. This is generally unscriptual. Every 'rule' we need is in the bible and a majority of them come from Jesus. After the Gospels the remainer of the new Testament is a clarification of how we should live and addresses problems in the first-century Christian church, many of which can still be applied, today. The Christian churches are not 'all the same' by a long shot. For instance: the Espiscopal Church is very 'liberal' and hardly bother to use scripture as a guide anymore. The Methodists are also very 'liberal' and make a lot of 'allowences' for behavior that the bible condemns. The Catholic Church is very rules oriented and puts much stock in symbolism and rituals, which I think just get in the way. Baptists believe in a 'once-saved always saved' doctrine which is very controversial in some quarters. My point is that they all have flaws and questionable practices, in some cases. Like any human institution, they all have 'hypocrites' in their body, too. Every church does so get used to it because you are going to be one of those, sooner or later. All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. (Romans 3: 23) My advice to any new Christian or one seeking guidance is to seek out and attend a fundamentalist Christian church that makes a point of basing their worship and studies on scripture, not some man's doctrine. They are often called 'bible-based' churches. That let's out the bigger, so-called 'mainline' churches which have become basically moribund and mired in trying to conform to secular values to attract members instead of trusting in God's Word to add to their number. Numbers are not the point, of course, preaching the truth of God is. Many Christian, Protestant churches seem to have forgotten that. While some doctrine (such as not using musical instruments in a worship service) are basically harmless, others are less benign. A so-called Christian church that puts more stock in it's man-made doctrines and allows things that the bible calls sin are not worthy of the name: Christian. Unfortunately, they're in abundance. Stick with a non-denominational bible-believing, fundamentalist Christian church that relies on scripture and not some man's doctrine and you'll be fine. |
Atheists and the 'gods' they don't believe in
Originally posted by bigred90gt :
Quote:
"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." It's a good line - if you're an atheist. Unfortunately, that's all it is: a snappy comeback with little substance. The evidence for a Creator is all around us and most of the 'gods' atheists like to compare to the God of the Bible are simply human inventions. No founder of any religion ever claimed to be God incarnate, as Jesus did and no founder of any religion that matters anymore (I'm discounting Greek myths which most sentient people understand are myths) ever rose from the dead, was seen by hundreds and offered Himself as a living sacrifice for man's sin, then ascended into heaven to prepare a place for us. Most 'gods' some people worship - or used to - are either just a part of creation ('nature') or a fabrication. While the bible was written by man and contains much that a hardened non-believer can mock and dismiss (as they do, regularly) the true atheist never believed in any 'god' and their attempts to pretend that they do and that all 'gods' are somehow equal is simply foolish, but all too common in those never-ending debates, which are usually a big waste of time. |
I actually took that quote from someones signature on another site. If it was incorrect, I appologize.
I realize that the bible and religion is for those who have faith in it. I cant make myself live my life by a book, that has no concrete evidence that anything in it is true. The only reason you say: "The evidence for a Creator is all around us and most of the 'gods' atheists like to compare to the God of the Bible are simply human inventions. No founder of any religion ever claimed to be God incarnate, as Jesus did and no founder of any religion that matters anymore (I'm discounting Greek myths which most sentient people understand are myths) ever rose from the dead, was seen by hundreds and offered Himself as a living sacrifice for man's sin, then ascended into heaven to prepare a place for us." is because that is what you were told, and what you have read. There is no proof that any of the events in the bible ever took place. I cant see how any competent person can live there lives based on a book and blind faith. There are too many important, life altering decisions that are made on a daily basis for me to make them based on something that was written in a book, that has no backgroung. And as has already been said, this debate will never end, and usually leaves those involved with a bad taste in their mouths. I have had many debates on the subject, and when the time comes for evidence, and proof of events, the answer is always "because the bible says". And that answer gets no one anywhere. |
Atheists and Christians
Originally posted by bigred90gt :
Quote:
The proof of God's creation is right in front of us - in so-called 'nature' - which screams 'intelligent design' - yet most atheists ignore it as it upsets their well-nutured 'non-belief'. Of course, the atheist cannot for one second prove that God does not exist, so the old 'evidence' and 'prove it' argument is moot, in my view. "Nature' proves an intelligent design and that begs a designer. The rest is easy to figure out. I believe that most non-believers simply do not wish to bow to anything or anyone other than themself. It's common. They make up their own moral rules and by dismissing even the existence of God, much less Jesus, they consider themselves unaccountable to anything but human laws and their own personal decisions on what is fair, right and moral. Sort of the adult version of the standard, rebellious teen-age attitude of: "Nobody tells ME what to do!" I can actually understand that attitude on some levels, but it denies the very real spiritual nature of man and ignores many realities, while dismissing God and Christ as unnecessary and even a lie and a fraud because they won't dance on the table for them at the atheists command. How sad I find that willful ignorance. Most atheists I've known that weren't raised as atheists (rare) were brought up in either a strict religious environment that they rebelled from when they discovered the carnal pleasures of the opposite sex, booze and drugs or a wishy-washy, Easter-and-Christmas type of 'religious' family that never really seemed to believe much of anything about the religion they professed. In both cases, around the teen years the rebellion occured and they were told by atheists how 'narrow-minded' and 'exclusive' their parent's religion was and how it was all a big sham, anyway, yada, yada, yada. They ate this up and looooved feeling grown-up and sophisticated by renouncing 'religion'. In the case of the person raised by devout parents, the thrill of throwing their parents faith back in their face was an added bonus for the really angry rebel. So, today, we have about 5% of the population claiming to be atheist and a few diehard activists who feel slighted trying to drive Christianity out of public life altogether, even though America was born of Christian principles that endure today, although tattered and torn for the constant assaults on them since the 1960's. I believe we'll survive this period of anti-Christian attitudes and the pseudo-sophistication of the young atheists mocking and denouncing 'religion', smugly full of distorted history and non-facts, pretending to fear an imminent theocracy in America if George W. Bush is re-elected and screaming that the religious folks 'prove it' or STFU. Times have certainly changed, when atheists were well enough respected but the religious were equally so, to now, when the religious are openly mocked and ridiculed in some quarters while the atheist is celebrated and considered the epitome of intelligence and wisdom on the face of the earth. They have no equal. They are 'enlightened', you see. God need not apply. |
Check out this site. www.doesgodexist.org
It may help some. I'm still reading it, so I have no comment as of yet.......but one is brewing. Heh heh. Later. |
Here's one....
What came first, the chicken or the egg? Science can break that down but religion really can't. If you look at the two, what would make more sense, science or religion? If religion, how so? If "god" created them, then why need both? Why not just one?
James:cool: |
| All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:05 AM. |