Project Death Machine??

[lx mike]

Hey Dan, what going on with your car?? how about an update??

------------------
93-LX: 5 Speed, Flow's with H-Pipe, 3.73's Sub's and K&N.

[xspeed02]

I saw in his profile that he already has the new 377 stroker in it and its blown... Also saw a video of it, dunno if its with the new combo or what, but its pretty damn bad.

[StangFlyer]

Hey now xspeed02, don't tell on me! Yes, in fact, I've been running the new combination since the middle of last summer. I finished it just before the Cyberbrawl event last year in Bowling Green, which was its first outing.

Although I only ran the car in Street Trim (10 lbs of boost, pump gas, and street EEC calibrations) I was able to go a best for the day of 10.9 at 128 MPH. However, this was also with a slipping clutch (at the time I thought I just wasn't hooking up well). I made eight passes that day. Just before winter I went to the local track to see if I could do better hooking up (still not realizing it wasn't a traction, but clutch problem). I launched at 5000 RPM and my clutch totally gave way, and destroyed itself. Nothing bad with the clutch, a RAM long style HP900, but I simply over powered it as the motor, even in street trim, makes in the 600 HP range. It's obvious with an adequate clutch and traction the cars got enough to go mid-10's at around 130 MPH, even at its heavy 3600 lbs (with me) weigh in.

I sent the clutch back to Mike Norcia at RAM Clutches, who simply said, "WHAT A MESS! Yeah, you definitely just over powered this thing".

Over the winter, actually only about a month ago, I changed the whole clutch set-up over to an 11" sintered iron RAM racing clutch set-up. This is a new 1000 HP rated set-up RAM has come up with since I originally got the long style HP900. It uses a billet aluminum flywheel, which is about half the weight of the billet steel Ford Racing flywheel I was using, and has a billet steel ring where the clutch disc sits. The sintered iron disc is solid meat, not small pads like the diaphragm clutches use, and looks like a semi metallic brake pad in a way. The 11" pressure plate has adjustable springs and can be adjusted with an allen wrench. Each turn adds 15 lbs to each spring (80 lbs total per turn for them all), which allows you to take the base pressure of only 360 lbs up to about 960 lbs.

OK, now your saying, 960 lbs?! A diaphragm clutch has 2500 lbs! But yep, and that's maxed out too. But, in fact, Mike says they usually only run 400 lbs on the strip. The sintered iron disc simply doesn't require much press plate force because it grip so much more. I've adjusted mine to 720 lbs, as a compromise between street and strip. The clutch is also designed to slip, and once it heats up and glazes, it grabs like crazy and you can throw anything at it supposedly. This makes it easier to hook up with a high horsepower car, and makes it easier on your drivetrain parts I would imagine too.

I am still playing with it to be honest. It was 79 degrees here in the Detroit Metro area in Michigan Sunday. We had record breaking weather for April. So I finally had the opportunity to take the car out, and I was able to cruise it around on the street for a while. I still have a clutch fork clearance problem to work out, and I need to readjust the clutch cable. However, I can tell you that the thing does slip as Mike described (quite a bit actually, but I think some of it is due to clutch adjustment). However, I'll know more later.

Regardless, I'll be setting the car up with my race pulley's some time this summer and doing some testing in that regard. That'll mean around 18 lbs of boost, C16 race fuel, and totally different EEC tuning. In this trim the car should make about 800 HP and go mid-9's. To tell you the truth, this is really a near 8-second engine in a 3000 lbs strip only Mustang probably.

I do plan to start the project section for the car this spring and I'll detail the whole car the best I can there, including track and dyno testing results. Furthermore, I'm about to do work with the Lightning and that'll be presented in the Project section also as "Project: Lightning Hauler". Look for it soon too. It's first upgrade is a complete Bassani exhaust system with before and after dyno results!

------------------
Dan McClain, Editor
The Mustang Works Magazine
1991 Mustang GT - NOVI Supercharged 377 Stroker
1999 Ford Lightning SVT - 2000 Prototype updated by Roush

[This message has been edited by Dan McClain (edited 04-09-2001).]

[88COBRA]

Bassani is big $$$$ but sounds awesome.

I check the project section every week to see what is happening. Maybe you should copy this post in their so people know? Just a suggestion.

I can only image what dring around town in that car would be like, knowing you have 600 hp at your right foot

Ian

------------------
Ian Sim
webmaster@stangpower.com
STORED: 1988 Mustang GT "Canadian Cobra", stock, AOD, loaded
LOTS OF PRODUCTS, AWESOME PRICES! Visit my site:
http://www.stangpower.com

[StangFlyer]

That's a good idea 88Cobra, I just did that.

------------------
Dan McClain, Editor
The Mustang Works Magazine
1991 Mustang GT - NOVI Supercharged 377 Stroker
1999 Ford Lightning SVT - 2000 Prototype updated by Roush

[xspeed02]

Doh! Dan just busted me. Pretty wicked if I say so myself... I can't imagine driving a car like that on the streets. Make sure to keep a neck brace handy bro, I'm sure you're gonna need it.

[StangFlyer]

Naaawww guys. You'd be surprised. It's actually a joke driving it on street tires (radials). It literally just annihilates the tires in 1st through 3rd going under 60 MPH. At 60 MPH, in just street trim, when you drop to third and nail it, the car pulls so hard through 3rd and 4th on the top end that it literally feels like its going to bust loose at any time. It's right on the edge.

So, with that said, any stop light race would be very difficult, as you'd just be burning rubber and the other guy would be gone. However, almost no one ever messes with me. You just know when you see and hear the thing that you just better forget it.

OMG - now on the drag strip when you've got the drag tires all on is when you need the fricking neck brace!


------------------
Dan McClain, Editor
The Mustang Works Magazine
1991 Mustang GT - NOVI Supercharged 377 Stroker
1999 Ford Lightning SVT - 2000 Prototype updated by Roush

[xspeed02]

With that being said, whats the fastest you think a car should be for street racing? Without totally just roasting the tires off. I'm building my engine with that in mind. Thats why I opted to just have a stout rebuild with heads and cam and such and then put a procharger ontop of that. So I can take the belt off for the winter. IMO I think thats the best way to go for a daily driver. Especially one that sees a little winter duty. *cringe* Of course I'm totally up for suggestions, since you've been there done that, I'm sure.

[StangFlyer]

My gut feeling, and I could be wrong, is that with a *drag radial* (like a Nitto Extreme) it would go high elevens. With a plain old Dunlop D40 I have on the car right now it would probably only go in the 12's because I'd have to basically launch the car at idle, go 1/3 throttle through 1st, run 1/4 to 1/2 throttle in 2nd, and 1/2 throttle at first in 3rd, floor it in the top of third, and go full throttle through 4th. Otherwise, you'd just be burning the tires all the way down the track and be going no where fast.

It's mainly stop light type races that are a problem. Anything starting off from 45 MPH or up and you could do well with it in street trim.

You're somewhat right. You can't make something like this a real daily driver. To needs a lot of care, attention, tweaking, and such. And, there's no flipping way you'd be driving it in the winter!

------------------
Dan McClain, Editor
The Mustang Works Magazine
1991 Mustang GT - NOVI Supercharged 377 Stroker
1999 Ford Lightning SVT - 2000 Prototype updated by Roush

[xspeed02]

Lol, thats the exact reason I'm not going to go with the stroker kit I was looking at. I'd rather have a good strong engine, say... 300ish rwhp and then bolt a blower on it for the good weather. And then just take the belt off for the winter. That does work right? Taking the belt off the blower, the car would still run right, just without the extra air flow? My theory anyways, never owned a supercharged car... but thats gonna change here in just a few months. Kinda wondering what I would run with a GT-40 intake, trickflow heads, cam, throttle body, 3.73 gear etc, and other bolt ons with a 14lb ATI Procharger.. Intercooled of course. Any ideas Dan? Hoping I can get into the low 12's or maybe 11's with traction... Guess we'll see.

[FivepointOH]

This brings up something i've been thinking about for a while... just how fast is too fast for a street car? I mean like Dan was saying you get to a point where you can't stoplight race becasue the tires just go up in smoke and could even get beat by a car that had a lot less hp just because he could hook up better.. What do you guys think... what's the magic number(max hp) for a street car(on drag radials, best "street tires" you can get)?

------------------
92 AOD GT, K&N, ram air, pulleys, 2 ch. flowmasters, 4:10's, shift kit, 1 5/8 mac longtubes and offroad hpipe 14.249 @ 97.34 mph before the headers and hpipe

[FivepointOH]

Oh and the Lingfelter(sp?) twin turbo vette(650hp) is another good example of this, I read somewhere it only runs somewhere in the mid to high 11's because it's on street tires but with a huge mph(135+ I think), spinning all the way down the track.

------------------
92 AOD GT, K&N, ram air, pulleys, 2 ch. flowmasters, 4:10's, shift kit, 1 5/8 mac longtubes and offroad hpipe 14.249 @ 97.34 mph before the headers and hpipe

[StangFlyer]

xspeed02, yes you can remove the blower belt and the car with run just fine. However, it will make less power naturally aspirated with a dead blower restricting air flow than it would without a blower and using a standard tube / meter.

FivepointOH, I don't think horsepower is as much of the determining factor concerning what is too much for a street tire than low end torque is. You could have an engine that only makes say 300 horsepower, but make 450 lb/fts of torque from 3000 to 5500 RPM and it would destroy the tires at low speed and in low gears. But, at the same token, you could have another Stang with an engine that makes 500 HP, but makes it's torque from 4000 to 7000 (not making nearly as much torque down low) and it might not have any problem at all. It's all on your combination.

The blown 377 in my car makes its BIG power and torque from 4000 to 6500. However, it still makes enough from 2500 to 4000 that its still to much for street tires to hold. With a motor like this, you just got a lot everywhere.


------------------
Dan McClain, Editor
The Mustang Works Magazine
1991 Mustang GT - NOVI Supercharged 377 Stroker
1999 Ford Lightning SVT - 2000 Prototype updated by Roush

[xspeed02]

Yah I figured the dead blower would restrict airflow coming into the car.. Would cause me to run super rich though I imagine... May just keep the blower on during the winter. Thanks Dan.

[FivepointOH]

Intresting... I guess that would mean a higher revving vorteched car would be better for the street than a torque monster like yours.... people usually say the opposite, i.e. on the street it's all about torque...

------------------
92 AOD GT, K&N, ram air, pulleys, 2 ch. flowmasters, 4:10's, shift kit, 1 5/8 mac longtubes and offroad hpipe 14.249 @ 97.34 mph before the headers and hpipe

[StangFlyer]

FivepointOH, it is about torque... But, only to a point on a radial. Then it hurts you due to traction.


------------------
Dan McClain, Editor
The Mustang Works Magazine
1991 Mustang GT - NOVI Supercharged 377 Stroker
1999 Ford Lightning SVT - 2000 Prototype updated by Roush

[dirtyGT]

Hopefully i'll be getting almost as crazy and fast as you Dan my 306 is making 450hp and it's built for juice so i'm gonna spray 250 and the car looks all stock down to stock wheels and body except i'm gonna have to get a 4inch cowl because the stock hood doesn't quite clear a air cleaner a 750 holley and a victor intake.Hey maybe we can run when i get every thing done but i have a good feeling you'll smoke me but what the hay let's do it anyways

------------------
P.M.D. PERFORMANCE
project BLACK DEATH 88GT

[novi408]

Dan, if you don't mind, could you post some info about the cam you are running? I am having my shortblock rebuilt (410ci W351 block) and am looking into a solid roller and have had all kinds of recommendations, so I'm not quite sure which way to head. Thanks.

------------------
1988 LX Coupe, 6 pt roll bar, 408 Stroker w/ Sportsman block, TFS-R heads, GT-40 lower, sheet metal upper, Tremec TKO, Paxton Novi 2000, Paxton fuel system, EPEC, Front Coil-Overs, Tubular K-Member

[StangFlyer]

NWell, I am not running a solid roller, I am running a hydraulic roller. It's a custom grind Kam Motion stick, that Ron Robart at Fox Lake Power Products scienced out to match my heads and what I wanted to do. I'll never find the true potential of the engine I have probably, as I can only spin it to 6500 RPM... But, I wanted a low maintenance, sturdy, not going to break it engine. I had enough of that in my push it to the limits 302 days...

Regardless, the cam I have is backwards from what you might think. It is around .600" lift on the intake side with a 1.7 rocker and around .575" lift on the exhaust side. Yes, it has more on the intake than the exhaust. The duration is as expected, however, being around 228 on the intake and 236 on the exhaust. All this is on a 114 lobe. Actually a conservative cam for this big of an engine.

When you're making over 550 HP or so, you will actually make more power by having the intake have more lift than the exhaust. It's backwards from a lower HP engine.

------------------
Dan McClain, Editor
The Mustang Works Magazine
ICQ: 2937586 - AIM: DMcClain91GT
1991 Mustang GT - NOVI Supercharged 377 Stroker
1999 Ford Lightning SVT - 2000 Prototype updated by Roush

[This message has been edited by Dan McClain (edited 05-16-2001).]

[inferno]

Originally posted by Dan McClain:
When you're making over 550 HP or so, you will actually make more power by having the intake have more lift than the exhaust. It's backwards from a lower HP engine.

From my experience, this is true of forced induction cars in general regardless of hp output...

------------------
90 Honda CRX aka Project Mongoose
Estimated Completion: 7/1/01
453 horses with a stock head...built head and LSD on the way

84 Toyota Supra
High flow cat, two chamber flowmaster, custom 2.5" piping, msd 8.5mm wires. Will have boost before 2002.
Have HKS turbo manifold for it.....purchasing T88 on 5/19