I learned my basic anatomy from preserved cats in comparative vertrebrate anatomy in college. They were already dead and preseved of course.

Later, in dental school, we had to do do live animal expirements using dogs in more advanced studies. I didn't like those experiments at all as we had to sacrifice the animals afterwards. These were animals from the pound that were already condemned to die.

As most of you can see, this still bothers me some, even after 30 yrs. as an animal lover.

Rev

WELL...
 

I would hit the cat. As a matter of fact I have already hit a rabbit and a cat this week. The rabbit was in the sticks so I felt really bad about that one because the rabbit was where it was supposed to be, however the cat was in the middle of a busy residential area.

BEGIN R ANT:
There should never be any domesticated animals hit by cars in an urban environment. That is completely the fault of an irresponsible owner and I don't feel bad at all when I run over ANYTHING. As a matter of fact, I hope the owners of the animal REALLY love that animal because they deserve to be unhappy. People need to take responsibility for their animals and take care of them like they deserve to be taken care of, which includes at the least not letting them run around in areas with traffic. When you keep an animal, it is entirely dependent on you for it's mental and physical well being. This includes: sustinance, sanitary and adequate living conditions, excercise, preserving their safety, etc... be responsible with your animals. END RANT :)

Anyway, I will go out of my way not to kill anything, even insects, so if it was possible avoid it, I would, but not if it means wrecking my car.

Rev,

I know what you mean. We did the cat disection in Anatomy I and II in undergrad. We had this GIANT alley tomcat we named Mr. Bigglesworth.

I don't have a problem working on things that are already dead. I've disected the cat along with countless other small creatures in comparative anatomy courses and such, but the thing that takes the cake was my Gross Anatomy class which I took about one year ago as my first graduate course. That class absolutely ROCKED! It was intense, but it was awesome. I learend more in that class than I did in four years of undergrad. There wasn't ever really a problem with working on a dead person. They donated their body to science, and we always treated the cadavers with respect. It was, afterall, someone's mother, father, sister, brother, daughter, or son.

I, too, have done live animal experiments. I took an advanced human physiology class the last semester of undergrad. We used turtles, frogs, and mice to do experiments in physiological systems and homeostasis mechanisms. Ever pip a frog? That has to be one of the worst. First knock the thing unconcious (this was one of the worst parts...take the frog in your hand and then bash the back of its head against the edge of a table....*shudder*). Then take a pair of scissors, cut off the top half of its head, and then use a needle to destroy the remainer of its brainstem....yeck. This leaves them paralyzed, braindead, and basically othewise dead except that their heart and lungs are still going.

With the rats, we anesthitized them and implanted transmitors for experiments. After we were done, we put them down with ether followed by pneumothorax. The turtle was pretty bad as well...but we won't go there.

It bothered me as well. I don't like the destruction of life, but you pick the lesser evil, I guess. Sacrifice animals for the sake of human life. Sometimes I wonder if the human portion isn't the greater evil.... But there's bad apples in every barrel, right?

Amazing what we do in the pursuit of knowledge, eh?

--nathan

Yeah, but thats only fun when there are small children and old ladies around to watch you do it!

ROFL!

Take care,
-Chris

Re: Morals??
 

Silver_pilate, It surprised me because I was thinking you were a religious person.. I may have you confused with another member(srv?)

MustangGT, hey bro.. if that's all you can find then, go for it.:)

TNT, I love vension as well.:)

I'm no cat lover, I don't hate them but I don't particularly like them although I had quite a few growing up. I think the neighbors' cat that liked to walk on my mustang(little cat prints.. GRR) really ticked me off. I'm not one to hurt anything while it doesn't surprise me that some people actually take enjoyment in hurting another living being. My brother liked to shoot lizards with a bb gun when we were kids. How about putting a crab in a microwave and watch it fighting for life to get out, he justified this by eating it afterward. Hey, people gotta eat, in which case killing is justified.. that's life.

I don't like the experiments on animals. Funny how a mean sob becomes just as pathetic (and begs for mercy) when he is the one being tortured.

Godslayer, I agree with you about people controlling thier animals. I deal with this on a daily basis and don't blame the vicious animal for doing what comes natural, its the owners responsiblity. I've knocked the hell out of a few dogs in my time.. Had a owner open his front door and let his barking dog out on me when I was halfway back to my truck(which tried to attack). I knocked the **** out of the dog and the dog ran back yelping, the owner got mad and cussed me out and threatened to kick my ***(but stayed on his porch while doing it, stupid owner). My dog stays in the back yard during the day and comes in at night, she has only gotten away from me a few times the 3-4yrs that I've had her, she's a mutt that a couldn't resist(she's my baby):). I'd hate to think that if she did get hit by a car the driver would get out beat her to death and come looking to me for answers(mistake). It's my responsibilty to protect her from the cold cruel world. Maybe I did over-react in my post but atleast I deleted some of it..

Animals don't always realize they are in a bad position and I don't think its thier fault but the guy tailgating me knows better. The looking in the rearview and making a decision has happened to me, if I can avoid hitting the animal I will but not if the outcome is disasterous. I make my decision and live with it. I wouldn't swerve if going too fast because I know better.

I guess the truck driver that wondered into the LA riots deserved what he got?? He shouldn't have been there, huh? He was in a bad position and didn't know it. He got pulled from his truck and was beaten half to death(in case you don't remember). Its not the same, but it is. We may be the top of the food chain but I don't think that gives up the right to abuse the other creatures..

As far as the state-insurance thing. The one who get the ticket is the one at fault. The insurance company doesn't make the laws though I'm sure they'd like to.

rbatson,

No, bud, you got me right. I'm a Christian, although I cringe at the label "religious." Christianity is not about religion. It's not about going to church, or saying your prayers, or even being a good person (although that all seems to come with the territory). It's about a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and, through Him, the Father. But unless you want a sermon, I won't go on any further than that :D.

However, not only am I a Christian, but I am also a scientifically minded person. Many people think that science and religion conflict with each other. In my experiences, I'd have to say that religion and science often go hand in hand. I enjoy the biological sciences mainly, but I also enjoy reading into quantum physics and new developments in those areas (although, admittedly, I fall way short of understanding all the mathematics involved...that's why I'm in Biology :)).

Science is not invalidated by religion any more than religion is invalidated by science. Sure, there are some religious beliefs out there that seem to fly in the face of science, and many non-believing people would say even fly in the face of logic. However, there are just as many wild scientific ideas out there that fly in the face of religion and that fly in the face logic.

Science is based in theory. Everything we know in science, even the most fundamental "laws" of science are theory. We have a faith in those theories. I have a faith that if I climbed to the top of the empire state building and jumped off that I would fall at a rate of acceleration of 9.8 m/s squared and would hit the pavement with a satisfying, if not nauseating, splat, and I would be dead. In science, something is proven (law) only so long as it's not disproven.

Religion, for those who believe, is based in faith as well. I have a faith in God and Jesus. To argue logically, if I am wrong about my faith, then what have I lost? A life filled with hope and direction? What if I am right? What have I lost? Nothing while gaining everything.

Anyway...this is a really SLOW day at work, so sorry if I rambled on.

This is WAY off topic, and probably should be discussed elsewhere, but my fingers got away from me. Sorry. :D

--nathan

Anyone that would kill an animal with there car on purpose is a moron. (If it cant be avoided, Oh well.)

I have found that most people that dont like animals are socialy disfunctional idiots.

Anyone that would power trip on an animal......by beating it with a tire iron is a loser I dont care who it is. "I hope he was kidding"

I think some of you must be disfunctional, lonely, deprived losers, that power trip on animals, women and little kids so that you can feel superior. "How pathetic"

Oh and always remember this

I'll agree with some of that, Dark_5.0. If I can avoid killing an animal, I will. However, like you said, it sometimes can't be avoided. At those times...I'll feel bad for about 10 seconds, and then I'm over it. Nothing that could have been done.

Everyone knows that split second of reaction where you want to yank the wheel to avoid smearing the kitty; I have trained myself to ignore it when it is dangerous.

Kinda like when you have a blow out at high speeds and the car pulls hard to that side. Many people, without knowing better, yank the wheel the other way. Unfortunately, many times the car has already veered into the margin and the hard yank serves only to cause the edge of the rim to bite into the dirt resulting in a Six Flags-like experience.

I, too, get really perturbed at people who take power trips on animals and beat them. I'm no PETA fan by any means, but cruel and pointless torture of helpless creatures is just sick.

BTW...everytime I see that Kitty/Monsters pic, I have to laugh. :D

--nathan

Okay, so you're saying power tripping on women is a bad thing???

Man, there goes my whole world.

Just when I thought I had things figured out.

:)

Take care,
-Chris

LMAO!! :D :D

--nathan

I think this is the first time I have seen humor from PKRWUD:D

Humor is relative
 

Dark_5.0:

PKRWUD has a well developed sense of humor but he's often subtle and uses irony and sarcasm rather than blunt jokes.

He also posts 'Joke' threads quite often, some of which are actually funny.

Re: Humor is relative
 

ok jim wait till he call's you a bonehead & see how funny it is, heheh, ;) im kidding pkrhea- i mean pkrwud know's he has hooked me up more than once , so i cut him a little slack, but not much, hey chris , about the red wing's --- uuuhhmm where are your flyer's ,bwahahaha, the stanley is our's. yes i have hit a cat , but i have also hit a dog,which bothered me the most= both, but i wasnt going to wreck:rolleyes: :p :p :D

hehehehe
 

LMAO!!!! I still feel bad for that poor kitty in the kitty/monsters pic....I think Pkrwuld explained what the monsters were, but i forgot???? hehhh ;) And actually, he does seem to be Quite humorous at times!!!! lol

But ya, The crap that some of ya'll have to do in science classes is WAAAYYYY too much for me. I LOVE ANIMALS!!!!!! I could never cut one up(although we had to disect a frog in High School....if I can remember that far back!)

BTW: I bought my turtles a new home!!!! They are now out of their too confining 20 gallon tank and have a pool inthe back yard. And you know I will take a pic of it and post it! ehhehh. They LOVE it! They look happy! :) And I carried the pool home in the back seat w/ the top down. I'm sure it looked funny going down the fwy. I had to hold the edge of it over my head so it wouldn't blow out. TNT

Interesting scenerio, but I beleive there's always another option.

Find it and use it.

In this case, that option would include saving both and sleeping well at night.

Re: Re: Humor is relative
 

LOL! Its all fun and games until someone loses an eye.:D

PKRWUD has humor:confused: :)

Re: Re: Re: Humor is relative
 

Yup. It stares back at me every morning from the bathroom mirror. After 35 years, though, you get used to it.

Take care,
-Chris

WHEW!!! that's a relief cuase after 22 years I still about give myself a heart attack when I walk into the bathroom!:eek: