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Moral Decision Poll
After having seen Spider-Man and the "Save the Cable car of children or the Girlfiend" scene....
I thought of a good dilemma. Let me set it up for you: You're in Rush hour traffic in a big city. The guy behind you is just about right on your bumper (as usual), and there are vehicles in the lane on either side of you. You are all cruising around at about 50 mph when a small kitten runs out into the street in front of you. Do you: A. Slam on the brakes to give the kitten a chance to get away with its life while knowing full well the sound of crunching metal will be coming from the rear of your beloved Mustang B. Give the kitty it's last rights and continue on with your Mustang intact I know what MY decision would be.... What's yours? |
Hummm, if it were your car i would say bye bye kitty. But then again my mom got rear ended, had her car fixed by the other insurance company and is getting $30,000 back from the lawsuit. So if it were me, I think I could find a much better car for that kinda money. :rolleyes:
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It is illegal to cause an accident to avoid a collision with an animal. It's also illegal to tailgate. Bye bye kitty. To me, taking the chance that I'll get blamed for causing an accident, having it on my record and destroying my capability to afford my car is too much.
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I HATE CATS, i'd hit the gas pedal and try to run the sob over.
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Cata and collisions
Easy one. The kitty gets it.
I had this happen - in a way. Driving on a rainy night on a side street, about 30 mph, a cat runs into the road right in front of me - no room. I hit the brakes, car slides to the right - toward a tree! I say "Forget this" and let off the brake. Car straigntens out, I feel a 'thump' and that's all she wrote. No, I didn't go back. Cats never have I.D.tags (could have been a stray), it was raining hard and there was nothing I could do, anyway. Sorry it happened but when the decision is between a cat and a car wreck, the cat loses. Make it a dog and the decision gets much, much harder. |
I don't know what I would really do until I was put in that situation but I think I would hit the brakes. If I felt it was him or human life, it would be human life everytime. In the rain, like the situation Jim was in.. I wouldn't hit the brakes, too much risk.
In this state, if someone rearends you it is automatically thier fault for following too close unless, you pull out in front of them or cut them off(hard for the police to determine sometimes) or are intoxicated. Almost any accident in which someone is intoxicated, its automatically there fault(from what I've seen). People generally don't tailgate in this state:D. |
I'm a big cat person anyway (have 4 of them running around here somewhere) so that would be an easy decision. This state is the same way..if you rearend someone it is your fault no questions asked.
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Bye bye kitty cat.
Out here things run in front of you all the time. Could be a rabbit. Could be a pheasant. Could be a deer (although VERY rare to happen in the South Plains). If I have a chance to break for an animal safely, sure, I'll do it. Most of the times that split second is all that's needed. However, if I'm cruising at 70 and a rabbit runs out at the last second, I don't even flinch. Keep the wheel straight as there is nothing you could do. I see it as a sort of Darwinistic approach. You know, survival of the fittest. If the darn thing is stupid enough to run out in front of you, it likely swam in from the shallow end of the gene pool, if you know what I mean. I'm doing the kitty/rabbit/pheasant population a favor by eliminating those animals which don't deserve to live to reproduce. BTW...ever hit a pheasant at 70? Their head is just about even with your headlights. Makes for a nice spray of grey matter up the hood, up the windshield, and over the roof. Then you gotta get the feathers out of the windshield wipers. --nathan |
I find that interesting coming from you silver_pilate.
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bye bye kitty, hello 100 points. If it was a dog, I would still hit it, but I'd feel bad afterward. If it was a deer, I'd slam on the brakes(my insurance doesn't cover damage caused by hittin animals;))
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Hmm i wonder what PKRWUD would do? :)
If it were me, then most likely my g/f would be with me and she would do more damage to me if i hit the cat than the cars could ever do to me. But i really dont like cats either, so its bye bye kitty, and most likely bye bye girlfriend. oh well:rolleyes: |
It's an insurance company deal, not a state deal. If somebody rear ends you in ANY state is almost always the other persons fault. Almost is the key word there. Call your insurance agent and ask him if you can intentionally cause an accident in an attempt to not hit an animal. His answer will be "no." There is a legitimate reason for it, too. People were intentionally causing accidents only to claim they had to hit the brakes for the animal.
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Oh, and if it was a dog that I hit. I would get out of the car to inspect for damages, then go back to the dog, beat it for 1/2 an hour with a tire iron, then go and find the owner and beat them too.
I HATE dogs. Worthless animals. Jump onto people, bark, generally pester the crap out of you, smell like *** (literally), get in your way, harrass guests, and they put a burden on you. If I could choose to eliminate all dogs from the Earth, or mosquito's it would be a tough choice. |
Let me tell you something Unit, I don't know who the hell you think you are but if you were to hit my dog and come to my house to beat me... They'd be picking your *** out of the trees. You don't know everything and your arrogance is beginning to get on my nerves!!
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rbatson,
Why's that? If it seems insensitive, it's not that I don't love animals and avoid killing them when I can, but if it can't be done safely, there's nothing else that can be done. Kinda like if a meteorite decides to fall on my head...not much I can do. :) If it's the Darwinistic approach that seems out of place, I'll say this. Darwin's ideas have a lot of credence to them. Many people called Darwin a heretic when he proposed his evolutionary ideals. The truth is that Darwis wasn't a heretic. He was a bright man who observed things and thought about what he saw. Hey, evolution happens. The strongest of the species survives and is able to reproduce and pass on its beneficial qualities (unless it's human...then we try and let everyone survive to reproduce...an many do who shouldn't :D). I don't have a problem with evolution as a rule. I have a problem with radical, grand-scale evolution. Hope that helps clear anything up. :) --nathan |
I'd have to say guys I'd hit the brakes. I love cats. I love animals more than I like people (No....Dont get the wrong idea now.). I'd probably be less inclined to hit the brakes for a person. Unless it was a Fine Asian girl, then I'd hit the brakes, and ask her if she needs a ride.:D
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Foolish, yes... but I'd slam on the brakes too. No matter what kind of animal.
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My damn self...
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. I am an animal lover...I'd have to sacrifice the Stang if it came down to it...I only have the 2 Poms a few days a week, and no cats. But I could never hit animal if I can avoid it, that includes squirreles and ARMADILLOS.... but if anyone WOULD happen to hit a deer, call me when the processing is COMPLETE....I love a good mix of venisson! But , I dont wanna see it gutted. Been there done that bout 20 years ago when I went on a hunting trip in Mississippi. Watched the whole process... Before I was into animals.. and i couldnt watch it again.. I dont even want to throw the crabs and crawfish in the boiler! but I'll still eat them. :) |
Been there, done that.
No brainer. Stop for the cat, and if the F***head behind me hits me, kick his stupid ***. I'm all for brutally hurting people, but I would never harm a cat. Per capita, cats are smarter than most people anyway. Kell, I don't want to get into another pissing contest with you, but I have to agree that you've been particularly PMS-like lately. Everything okay? Take care, -Chris |
if it came down to a wreck, or a cat, bye cat i try to avoid hitting animal's, unlike some people around here, who hit them on purpose, but i hate cat's anyway, plus i dont want to be without my car for 2FREAKIN MONTHS AGAIN, oh sorry:rolleyes: lee hit a dog one time & started crying, i laughed and said, would your rather be in the hospital, it was unavoidable,life goes on :D
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I would take out the cat.
Quick Story About 7 or so years ago my brother was doing about 60 mph down a country road when a cat jumped out onto the road. For whatever reason (probably just natural reaction), he attempted to swerve and miss the cat. This put his car into an uncontrollable spin. He missed a very large tree by a couple yards and ended up in the ditch with bumps, bruses and was quite shaken up. When I arrived on the scene, all I could think about was how lucky my brother was not to hit that tree and to consciously remind myself that if this ever happens to me: Keep the car straight and apply the brakes in a controlled fashion. If you speed bump the cat - oh well. In this case and in others, it's a rather simple decision - Human life over the cat's life. E |
Moral Dilemmas
In our emotional responses to cats, dogs and people we're losing sight of the original moral dilemma Hammer proposed and a factor that should be considered, that is, while getting rear-ended to avoid hitting a cat may or may not be illegal or a loss that insurance will cover, there are very real physical dangers involved in being rear ended.
Some years back, my lovely wife was rear-ended by a guy in a van, on a highway exit ramp, in the rain. He mis-judged his ability to stop and hit a guardrail trying to avoid her but slammed into my wife's Plymouth Horizon at about 20 mph. Her car was repairable but she was never quite the same and has had various back problems ever since. She received an insurance settlement but we both would rather the accident never happened. Money doesn't buy health. I recount this story to make the point that getting rear-ended can cause you real physical problems not to mention the physical damage that may occur to the other person who slams into your rear. Is that morally acceptable? To possibly injure another human being to avoid hitting an animal? Maybe so. That's part of the dilemma. So, as an intellectual exercise, we should consider the possible physical damage that could occur from a rear-end collision. I believe this factor, alone, trumps the life of a cat or even a dog but if the decision is based on sheer emotion ('I love cats') than, of course, brace forself for the very hard shot you're about to take in this hypothetical scenario. |
Morals??
rbatson, I love cats... THEY TASTE LIKE CHICKEN!!! :D
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I'm sure you have seen the commercial on the TV for insurance with the two squirrels... One runs out in front of a car, you hear the car crash, and the squirrels give 'high fives', etc. If I were driving, no more squirrel. |
I'm pretty much with Chris on this one. I hate dogs and I would avoid hitting a dog too, or a possum, or a squirrel, or armadillo, or a... well you get the point. I have hit animals but normally because I didn't see them or didn't have time to react and miss them.
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well I am not going to say one way or the other But this happend to me before.....
I let my dad Take my stang for a Drive I rode in a car that was behind him about 5min behind well Just as we get to where we are going the Traffic is at a dead Stop we get to the top of the hill and My stang was in a Acident I Ran on foot all the way there a good 1/4 mile to see how bad it was... I talked to my dad frist to see How it happend and if he was all right he was fine But the guy that hit him.....well he was in the Dich Groning in Pain as he was messed up. he was riding a Bike and did not see My dad Stoped taking a left hand trun EVEY one there said that the bike did not even Slow down at all.... it was not my dad's Fault at all about that Time the cops got there. Well there was a doctor at the seen a friend of the Famly was tending the Guy in the dich well I started looking over my stang to figure out what I need to do to fix it..... I was Working on getting it driveable.....well I had 3 people say Why are you upset about your car that Guy is really messed Up I told then to there Face that Tuff Crap he Hit my stang got what he should!!! As I was well tick off that he hit MY CAR!! The poeple looked at me and they were like what did you say I said there is Not any thing I can do..... for him..... |
Not Saying that I would Run in to some one.... But animal what every does the lest damage..
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Unless a 100lb. Doberman took a bite out of your rear end when you were 7 years old, HOW CAN ANYONE HATE DOGS!, they are more obedient and loyal than humans!
Sorry, I'm just a DOG LOVER! |
Rick, after all these years, you know that you can't always take Unit 100% literally, don't you? Sometimes he's just trying to make things interesting on this board.
Mr 5 0., just how many rice cars have you owned? Be honest now, hee,hee. Rev |
Mr. 5.0 brings up a very important point here.
2 Years ago I was in a car accident, and although it was not a rear end collision, it was still a colision. Sure I'm sueing the person (blatantly ran a red light), and sure I'm going to use some of that money on my car :), but I'd give it all up if could get rid of the back problems I have. Trust me getting hurt in an accident is the LAST thing you ever want to do, it affects you the rest of your life! I know animal life is valuble, but as far as I'm concerned it's me or the cat, and incase no ones noticed it's eat or get eaton out there. Bye bye Kitty, I will remember you fondly. |
Rice confessions
Mr 5 0., just how many rice cars have you owned? Be honest now, hee,hee.
One. My wife's Mazda 626. Great utilitarian vehicle for the money. The Plymouth Horizon my wife used to drive was American-made by the Chrysler Corporation, long before they were taken over by Daimler-Benz. Good car. It went 140,000 miles before the head cracked and it wasn't worth repairing at that point as body rot had set in. We got $350. for it as a trade in on the Mazda. |
Two things...
First I would say that it is a natural reaction of mine to grab the brakes when anything runs in front of me. It's usually coupled with a check of the rearview to see if I'm going to get hit. Which I did once in highschool. Was driving my 944 (hydrolic bumpers) got rearended, totalled the front of a new C-class and only bent my plate. Hehe, I won that one.
Second, there is a whole lot of room between the tires on a car. I have "run over" a number of animals and never made contact. Maybe I'm just lucky, but I'd hit the brakes and nail the gas to get the heck out of the way. Who loses? Depends on how fast the cat and car are. |
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Oh yeah, and Bye Bye Kitty. Yeah, I have to disagree with Unit on the Dog thing too. He has some points, but the positives outweigh the negatives in my view. By a lot. |
My mistake. I thought that the Horizon was actually made by Mitsubishi, and imported by Chrysler with their name on it.
Rev |
Considering the serious injury that a human being could suffer, I would definitely nail the kitty. It's pretty foolish to concern yourself with who's at fault if you wind up crippled or worse.
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Squirrels are the problem around my neighborhood. I slow or stop for them when I can (who wouldn't), but not to cause a danger to anyone else.
Mr 5 0, I can't throw any stones here as I've owned (for me or family) several ricers for the same reasons. 1.) '87 Maxima, bought used and was a good buy. Served well for several years. 2.) '94 4-Runner, bought new and my personal daily driver (almost worn out now with 139,000+ miles, but still serviceable). 3.) 2000 Lexus ES300 for my wife (her choice). Bought new and still like new with 8500 miles. Boreing, but she likes it. Rev |
So far the only foreign made cars I've owned are a 73 VW bus (made in Germany), a 94 Mercury Capri (made in Australia), and a Merkur XR4Ti (also made in Germany).
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For those who may not know the Merkur is a German Ford. In fact in Europe the same car (with a different motor) was called the Ford Sierra. The Merkur was a blast of a car (till I blew up the turbo, $800 car $1500 new turbo ummm no!) If any of you have the chance look up a sierra cosworth rs500 I want one of those bad!
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Rice as a side dish is O.K.
Rev:
Common error to confuse the Plymouth Horizon/Dodge Omni and the Dodge Colt, which was a re-badged Mitsubishi Mirage. No crime in owning a Japanese or other foreign car, especially as a family hauler or even a daily driver in some cases but I prefer my Mustang V-8 for my personal transportation, although I wish I could make it a fair-weather-only car but then again, I get to enjoy it every day. |
The cat would be toast..
Even if you slammed on the brakes you are not guranteed that the stupid cat will make it to the shoulder without injury. The cat may be startled into running back into traffic. |
I learned my basic anatomy from preserved cats in comparative vertrebrate anatomy in college. They were already dead and preseved of course.
Later, in dental school, we had to do do live animal expirements using dogs in more advanced studies. I didn't like those experiments at all as we had to sacrifice the animals afterwards. These were animals from the pound that were already condemned to die. As most of you can see, this still bothers me some, even after 30 yrs. as an animal lover. Rev |
WELL...
I would hit the cat. As a matter of fact I have already hit a rabbit and a cat this week. The rabbit was in the sticks so I felt really bad about that one because the rabbit was where it was supposed to be, however the cat was in the middle of a busy residential area.
BEGIN R ANT: There should never be any domesticated animals hit by cars in an urban environment. That is completely the fault of an irresponsible owner and I don't feel bad at all when I run over ANYTHING. As a matter of fact, I hope the owners of the animal REALLY love that animal because they deserve to be unhappy. People need to take responsibility for their animals and take care of them like they deserve to be taken care of, which includes at the least not letting them run around in areas with traffic. When you keep an animal, it is entirely dependent on you for it's mental and physical well being. This includes: sustinance, sanitary and adequate living conditions, excercise, preserving their safety, etc... be responsible with your animals. END RANT :) Anyway, I will go out of my way not to kill anything, even insects, so if it was possible avoid it, I would, but not if it means wrecking my car. |
Rev,
I know what you mean. We did the cat disection in Anatomy I and II in undergrad. We had this GIANT alley tomcat we named Mr. Bigglesworth. I don't have a problem working on things that are already dead. I've disected the cat along with countless other small creatures in comparative anatomy courses and such, but the thing that takes the cake was my Gross Anatomy class which I took about one year ago as my first graduate course. That class absolutely ROCKED! It was intense, but it was awesome. I learend more in that class than I did in four years of undergrad. There wasn't ever really a problem with working on a dead person. They donated their body to science, and we always treated the cadavers with respect. It was, afterall, someone's mother, father, sister, brother, daughter, or son. I, too, have done live animal experiments. I took an advanced human physiology class the last semester of undergrad. We used turtles, frogs, and mice to do experiments in physiological systems and homeostasis mechanisms. Ever pip a frog? That has to be one of the worst. First knock the thing unconcious (this was one of the worst parts...take the frog in your hand and then bash the back of its head against the edge of a table....*shudder*). Then take a pair of scissors, cut off the top half of its head, and then use a needle to destroy the remainer of its brainstem....yeck. This leaves them paralyzed, braindead, and basically othewise dead except that their heart and lungs are still going. With the rats, we anesthitized them and implanted transmitors for experiments. After we were done, we put them down with ether followed by pneumothorax. The turtle was pretty bad as well...but we won't go there. It bothered me as well. I don't like the destruction of life, but you pick the lesser evil, I guess. Sacrifice animals for the sake of human life. Sometimes I wonder if the human portion isn't the greater evil.... But there's bad apples in every barrel, right? Amazing what we do in the pursuit of knowledge, eh? --nathan |
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Yeah, but thats only fun when there are small children and old ladies around to watch you do it! |
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Take care, -Chris |
Re: Morals??
Silver_pilate, It surprised me because I was thinking you were a religious person.. I may have you confused with another member(srv?)
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TNT, I love vension as well.:) I'm no cat lover, I don't hate them but I don't particularly like them although I had quite a few growing up. I think the neighbors' cat that liked to walk on my mustang(little cat prints.. GRR) really ticked me off. I'm not one to hurt anything while it doesn't surprise me that some people actually take enjoyment in hurting another living being. My brother liked to shoot lizards with a bb gun when we were kids. How about putting a crab in a microwave and watch it fighting for life to get out, he justified this by eating it afterward. Hey, people gotta eat, in which case killing is justified.. that's life. I don't like the experiments on animals. Funny how a mean sob becomes just as pathetic (and begs for mercy) when he is the one being tortured. Godslayer, I agree with you about people controlling thier animals. I deal with this on a daily basis and don't blame the vicious animal for doing what comes natural, its the owners responsiblity. I've knocked the hell out of a few dogs in my time.. Had a owner open his front door and let his barking dog out on me when I was halfway back to my truck(which tried to attack). I knocked the **** out of the dog and the dog ran back yelping, the owner got mad and cussed me out and threatened to kick my ***(but stayed on his porch while doing it, stupid owner). My dog stays in the back yard during the day and comes in at night, she has only gotten away from me a few times the 3-4yrs that I've had her, she's a mutt that a couldn't resist(she's my baby):). I'd hate to think that if she did get hit by a car the driver would get out beat her to death and come looking to me for answers(mistake). It's my responsibilty to protect her from the cold cruel world. Maybe I did over-react in my post but atleast I deleted some of it.. Animals don't always realize they are in a bad position and I don't think its thier fault but the guy tailgating me knows better. The looking in the rearview and making a decision has happened to me, if I can avoid hitting the animal I will but not if the outcome is disasterous. I make my decision and live with it. I wouldn't swerve if going too fast because I know better. I guess the truck driver that wondered into the LA riots deserved what he got?? He shouldn't have been there, huh? He was in a bad position and didn't know it. He got pulled from his truck and was beaten half to death(in case you don't remember). Its not the same, but it is. We may be the top of the food chain but I don't think that gives up the right to abuse the other creatures.. |
As far as the state-insurance thing. The one who get the ticket is the one at fault. The insurance company doesn't make the laws though I'm sure they'd like to.
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rbatson,
No, bud, you got me right. I'm a Christian, although I cringe at the label "religious." Christianity is not about religion. It's not about going to church, or saying your prayers, or even being a good person (although that all seems to come with the territory). It's about a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and, through Him, the Father. But unless you want a sermon, I won't go on any further than that :D. However, not only am I a Christian, but I am also a scientifically minded person. Many people think that science and religion conflict with each other. In my experiences, I'd have to say that religion and science often go hand in hand. I enjoy the biological sciences mainly, but I also enjoy reading into quantum physics and new developments in those areas (although, admittedly, I fall way short of understanding all the mathematics involved...that's why I'm in Biology :)). Science is not invalidated by religion any more than religion is invalidated by science. Sure, there are some religious beliefs out there that seem to fly in the face of science, and many non-believing people would say even fly in the face of logic. However, there are just as many wild scientific ideas out there that fly in the face of religion and that fly in the face logic. Science is based in theory. Everything we know in science, even the most fundamental "laws" of science are theory. We have a faith in those theories. I have a faith that if I climbed to the top of the empire state building and jumped off that I would fall at a rate of acceleration of 9.8 m/s squared and would hit the pavement with a satisfying, if not nauseating, splat, and I would be dead. In science, something is proven (law) only so long as it's not disproven. Religion, for those who believe, is based in faith as well. I have a faith in God and Jesus. To argue logically, if I am wrong about my faith, then what have I lost? A life filled with hope and direction? What if I am right? What have I lost? Nothing while gaining everything. Anyway...this is a really SLOW day at work, so sorry if I rambled on. This is WAY off topic, and probably should be discussed elsewhere, but my fingers got away from me. Sorry. :D --nathan |
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Anyone that would kill an animal with there car on purpose is a moron. (If it cant be avoided, Oh well.)
I have found that most people that dont like animals are socialy disfunctional idiots. Anyone that would power trip on an animal......by beating it with a tire iron is a loser I dont care who it is. "I hope he was kidding" I think some of you must be disfunctional, lonely, deprived losers, that power trip on animals, women and little kids so that you can feel superior. "How pathetic" Oh and always remember this |
I'll agree with some of that, Dark_5.0. If I can avoid killing an animal, I will. However, like you said, it sometimes can't be avoided. At those times...I'll feel bad for about 10 seconds, and then I'm over it. Nothing that could have been done.
Everyone knows that split second of reaction where you want to yank the wheel to avoid smearing the kitty; I have trained myself to ignore it when it is dangerous. Kinda like when you have a blow out at high speeds and the car pulls hard to that side. Many people, without knowing better, yank the wheel the other way. Unfortunately, many times the car has already veered into the margin and the hard yank serves only to cause the edge of the rim to bite into the dirt resulting in a Six Flags-like experience. I, too, get really perturbed at people who take power trips on animals and beat them. I'm no PETA fan by any means, but cruel and pointless torture of helpless creatures is just sick. BTW...everytime I see that Kitty/Monsters pic, I have to laugh. :D --nathan |
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