Moral Decision Poll - Page 2

302 LX Eric · 05-10-2002, 08:19 AM

I would take out the cat.

Quick Story

About 7 or so years ago my brother was doing about 60 mph down a country road when a cat jumped out onto the road. For whatever reason (probably just natural reaction), he attempted to swerve and miss the cat. This put his car into an uncontrollable spin. He missed a very large tree by a couple yards and ended up in the ditch with bumps, bruses and was quite shaken up.

When I arrived on the scene, all I could think about was how lucky my brother was not to hit that tree and to consciously remind myself that if this ever happens to me: Keep the car straight and apply the brakes in a controlled fashion. If you speed bump the cat - oh well.

In this case and in others, it's a rather simple decision - Human life over the cat's life.

E

Mr 5 0 · 05-10-2002, 09:09 AM

In our emotional responses to cats, dogs and people we're losing sight of the original moral dilemma Hammer proposed and a factor that should be considered, that is, while getting rear-ended to avoid hitting a cat may or may not be illegal or a loss that insurance will cover, there are very real physical dangers involved in being rear ended.

Some years back, my lovely wife was rear-ended by a guy in a van, on a highway exit ramp, in the rain. He mis-judged his ability to stop and hit a guardrail trying to avoid her but slammed into my wife's Plymouth Horizon at about 20 mph. Her car was repairable but she was never quite the same and has had various back problems ever since. She received an insurance settlement but we both would rather the accident never happened. Money doesn't buy health.

I recount this story to make the point that getting rear-ended can cause you real physical problems not to mention the physical damage that may occur to the other person who slams into your rear. Is that morally acceptable? To possibly injure another human being to avoid hitting an animal? Maybe so. That's part of the dilemma.

So, as an intellectual exercise, we should consider the possible physical damage that could occur from a rear-end collision.

I believe this factor, alone, trumps the life of a cat or even a dog but if the decision is based on sheer emotion ('I love cats') than, of course, brace forself for the very hard shot you're about to take in this hypothetical scenario.

MustangGT · 05-10-2002, 09:47 AM

rbatson, I love cats... THEY TASTE LIKE CHICKEN!!!

Ty'97Cobra · 05-10-2002, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 302 LX Eric
I would take out the cat.

.......how lucky my brother was not to hit that tree and to consciously remind myself that if this ever happens to me: Keep the car straight and apply the brakes in a controlled fashion. If you speed bump the cat - oh well.

In this case and in others, it's a rather simple decision - Human life over the cat's life.

E

My thoughts exactly. I would try a controlled stop, but if I'm in danger of being in an accident, the cat would get it. Even if it is the other persons fault, (ie: tailgating), I would hate to have a messed up back, neck, or whatever.

I'm sure you have seen the commercial on the TV for insurance with the two squirrels... One runs out in front of a car, you hear the car crash, and the squirrels give 'high fives', etc. If I were driving, no more squirrel.

polara7777 · 05-10-2002, 12:33 PM

I'm pretty much with Chris on this one. I hate dogs and I would avoid hitting a dog too, or a possum, or a squirrel, or armadillo, or a... well you get the point. I have hit animals but normally because I didn't see them or didn't have time to react and miss them.

Stang Runner · 05-10-2002, 12:49 PM

well I am not going to say one way or the other But this happend to me before.....
I let my dad Take my stang for a Drive I rode in a car that was behind him about 5min behind well Just as we get to where we are going the Traffic is at a dead Stop we get to the top of the hill and My stang was in a Acident I Ran on foot all the way there a good 1/4 mile to see how bad it was... I talked to my dad frist to see How it happend and if he was all right he was fine But the guy that hit him.....well he was in the Dich Groning in Pain as he was messed up. he was riding a Bike and did not see My dad Stoped taking a left hand trun EVEY one there said that the bike did not even Slow down at all.... it was not my dad's Fault at all about that Time the cops got there. Well there was a doctor at the seen a friend of the Famly was tending the Guy in the dich well I started looking over my stang to figure out what I need to do to fix it..... I was Working on getting it driveable.....well I had 3 people say Why are you upset about your car that Guy is really messed Up I told then to there Face that Tuff Crap he Hit my stang got what he should!!! As I was well tick off that he hit MY CAR!! The poeple looked at me and they were like what did you say I said there is Not any thing I can do..... for him.....

Stang Runner · 05-10-2002, 12:54 PM

Not Saying that I would Run in to some one.... But animal what every does the lest damage..

gtsr515 · 05-10-2002, 01:37 PM

Unless a 100lb. Doberman took a bite out of your rear end when you were 7 years old, HOW CAN ANYONE HATE DOGS!, they are more obedient and loyal than humans!

Sorry, I'm just a DOG LOVER!

Rev · 05-10-2002, 01:49 PM

Rick, after all these years, you know that you can't always take Unit 100% literally, don't you? Sometimes he's just trying to make things interesting on this board.

Mr 5 0., just how many rice cars have you owned? Be honest now, hee,hee.

Rev

95mustanggt · 05-10-2002, 02:15 PM

Mr. 5.0 brings up a very important point here.

2 Years ago I was in a car accident, and although it was not a rear end collision, it was still a colision. Sure I'm sueing the person (blatantly ran a red light), and sure I'm going to use some of that money on my car

, but I'd give it all up if could get rid of the back problems I have.

Trust me getting hurt in an accident is the LAST thing you ever want to do, it affects you the rest of your life! I know animal life is valuble, but as far as I'm concerned it's me or the cat, and incase no ones noticed it's eat or get eaton out there.

Bye bye Kitty, I will remember you fondly.

Mr 5 0 · 05-10-2002, 02:18 PM

Mr 5 0., just how many rice cars have you owned? Be honest now, hee,hee.

One. My wife's Mazda 626. Great utilitarian vehicle for the money.

The Plymouth Horizon my wife used to drive was American-made by the Chrysler Corporation, long before they were taken over by Daimler-Benz. Good car.

It went 140,000 miles before the head cracked and it wasn't worth repairing at that point as body rot had set in. We got $350. for it as a trade in on the Mazda.

The Deuce · 05-10-2002, 02:19 PM

First I would say that it is a natural reaction of mine to grab the brakes when anything runs in front of me. It's usually coupled with a check of the rearview to see if I'm going to get hit. Which I did once in highschool. Was driving my 944 (hydrolic bumpers) got rearended, totalled the front of a new C-class and only bent my plate. Hehe, I won that one.

Second, there is a whole lot of room between the tires on a car. I have "run over" a number of animals and never made contact. Maybe I'm just lucky, but I'd hit the brakes and nail the gas to get the heck out of the way. Who loses? Depends on how fast the cat and car are.

MTU 50 · 05-10-2002, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Stang Runner
well I am not going to say one way or the other But this happend to me before.....
I let my dad Take my stang for a Drive I rode in a car that was behind him about 5min behind well Just as we get to where we are going the Traffic is at a dead Stop we get to the top of the hill and My stang was in a Acident I Ran on foot all the way there a good 1/4 mile to see how bad it was... I talked to my dad frist to see How it happend and if he was all right he was fine But the guy that hit him.....well he was in the Dich Groning in Pain as he was messed up. he was riding a Bike and did not see My dad Stoped taking a left hand trun EVEY one there said that the bike did not even Slow down at all.... it was not my dad's Fault at all about that Time the cops got there. Well there was a doctor at the seen a friend of the Famly was tending the Guy in the dich well I started looking over my stang to figure out what I need to do to fix it..... I was Working on getting it driveable.....well I had 3 people say Why are you upset about your car that Guy is really messed Up I told then to there Face that Tuff Crap he Hit my stang got what he should!!! As I was well tick off that he hit MY CAR!! The poeple looked at me and they were like what did you say I said there is Not any thing I can do..... for him.....

You didn't do anything wrong. As long as there was people (a doctor in this case) tending to the injured man, go fix your car. I'd be glad that the guy wasn't killed, but agree that he got what he deserved if he was exceeding the speed limit or doing something stupid. I wouldn't necessarily say he go what he deserved if it was just a mistake, hey we're human, but I'd still be pissed about my car.

Oh yeah, and Bye Bye Kitty.

Yeah, I have to disagree with Unit on the Dog thing too. He has some points, but the positives outweigh the negatives in my view. By a lot.

Rev · 05-10-2002, 02:47 PM

My mistake. I thought that the Horizon was actually made by Mitsubishi, and imported by Chrysler with their name on it.

Rev

jimberg · 05-10-2002, 02:51 PM

Considering the serious injury that a human being could suffer, I would definitely nail the kitty. It's pretty foolish to concern yourself with who's at fault if you wind up crippled or worse.

Rev · 05-10-2002, 03:42 PM

Squirrels are the problem around my neighborhood. I slow or stop for them when I can (who wouldn't), but not to cause a danger to anyone else.

Mr 5 0, I can't throw any stones here as I've owned (for me or family) several ricers for the same reasons.

1.) '87 Maxima, bought used and was a good buy. Served well for several years.

2.) '94 4-Runner, bought new and my personal daily driver (almost worn out now with 139,000+ miles, but still serviceable).

3.) 2000 Lexus ES300 for my wife (her choice). Bought new and still like new with 8500 miles. Boreing, but she likes it.

Rev

polara7777 · 05-10-2002, 03:57 PM

So far the only foreign made cars I've owned are a 73 VW bus (made in Germany), a 94 Mercury Capri (made in Australia), and a Merkur XR4Ti (also made in Germany).

polara7777 · 05-10-2002, 04:04 PM

For those who may not know the Merkur is a German Ford. In fact in Europe the same car (with a different motor) was called the Ford Sierra. The Merkur was a blast of a car (till I blew up the turbo, $800 car $1500 new turbo ummm no!) If any of you have the chance look up a sierra cosworth rs500 I want one of those bad!

Mr 5 0 · 05-10-2002, 04:06 PM

Rev:

Common error to confuse the Plymouth Horizon/Dodge Omni and the Dodge Colt, which was a re-badged Mitsubishi Mirage.

No crime in owning a Japanese or other foreign car, especially as a family hauler or even a daily driver in some cases but I prefer my Mustang V-8 for my personal transportation, although I wish I could make it a fair-weather-only car but then again, I get to enjoy it every day.

elliotness · 05-10-2002, 05:01 PM

The cat would be toast..

Even if you slammed on the brakes you are not guranteed that the stupid cat will make it to the shoulder without injury. The cat may be startled into running back into traffic.

05-10-2002, 08:19 AM	#21
302 LX Eric or '331 LX Eric' Join Date: Jan 1999 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 2,142	I would take out the cat. Quick Story About 7 or so years ago my brother was doing about 60 mph down a country road when a cat jumped out onto the road. For whatever reason (probably just natural reaction), he attempted to swerve and miss the cat. This put his car into an uncontrollable spin. He missed a very large tree by a couple yards and ended up in the ditch with bumps, bruses and was quite shaken up. When I arrived on the scene, all I could think about was how lucky my brother was not to hit that tree and to consciously remind myself that if this ever happens to me: Keep the car straight and apply the brakes in a controlled fashion. If you speed bump the cat - oh well. In this case and in others, it's a rather simple decision - Human life over the cat's life. E __________________ 1991 5.0 LX Coupe - 40,750 miles 331 cu. in. / Tremec 3550 / BFG Drag Radials 12.22 @ 114.31 mph - w/1.89 60'

05-10-2002, 09:09 AM	#22
Mr 5 0 Conservative Individualist Join Date: May 1997 Location: Wherever I need to be Posts: 7,487	Moral Dilemmas In our emotional responses to cats, dogs and people we're losing sight of the original moral dilemma Hammer proposed and a factor that should be considered, that is, while getting rear-ended to avoid hitting a cat may or may not be illegal or a loss that insurance will cover, there are very real physical dangers involved in being rear ended. Some years back, my lovely wife was rear-ended by a guy in a van, on a highway exit ramp, in the rain. He mis-judged his ability to stop and hit a guardrail trying to avoid her but slammed into my wife's Plymouth Horizon at about 20 mph. Her car was repairable but she was never quite the same and has had various back problems ever since. She received an insurance settlement but we both would rather the accident never happened. Money doesn't buy health. I recount this story to make the point that getting rear-ended can cause you real physical problems not to mention the physical damage that may occur to the other person who slams into your rear. Is that morally acceptable? To possibly injure another human being to avoid hitting an animal? Maybe so. That's part of the dilemma. So, as an intellectual exercise, we should consider the possible physical damage that could occur from a rear-end collision. I believe this factor, alone, trumps the life of a cat or even a dog but if the decision is based on sheer emotion ('I love cats') than, of course, brace forself for the very hard shot you're about to take in this hypothetical scenario.

05-10-2002, 09:47 AM	#23
MustangGT Registered Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Northern California Posts: 9	Morals?? rbatson, I love cats... THEY TASTE LIKE CHICKEN!!!

05-10-2002, 12:33 PM	#25
polara7777 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Columbus, MS Posts: 324	I'm pretty much with Chris on this one. I hate dogs and I would avoid hitting a dog too, or a possum, or a squirrel, or armadillo, or a... well you get the point. I have hit animals but normally because I didn't see them or didn't have time to react and miss them. __________________ -Ian Christopher -84 VW Vanagon (Stock so far but it barks 3rd ) -67 Dodge Polara (383 punched 30, Heavy head work, Mopar Performance single plane intake, Holley 750, electric fuel pump, Holley regulator, .484 duration cam, FRIED bottom end!) DOH!!! Fried the #1 rod bearing. Stroker kit coming! -01 Kawasaki Ninja 250 (Clear lenses, shaved fender, rear signals in the rear housing, baffles removed, Deals Gap dragon on the tail.)

05-10-2002, 12:49 PM	#26
Stang Runner Registered Member Join Date: Jun 1999 Location: Walker, MI, USA Posts: 1,202	well I am not going to say one way or the other But this happend to me before..... I let my dad Take my stang for a Drive I rode in a car that was behind him about 5min behind well Just as we get to where we are going the Traffic is at a dead Stop we get to the top of the hill and My stang was in a Acident I Ran on foot all the way there a good 1/4 mile to see how bad it was... I talked to my dad frist to see How it happend and if he was all right he was fine But the guy that hit him.....well he was in the Dich Groning in Pain as he was messed up. he was riding a Bike and did not see My dad Stoped taking a left hand trun EVEY one there said that the bike did not even Slow down at all.... it was not my dad's Fault at all about that Time the cops got there. Well there was a doctor at the seen a friend of the Famly was tending the Guy in the dich well I started looking over my stang to figure out what I need to do to fix it..... I was Working on getting it driveable.....well I had 3 people say Why are you upset about your car that Guy is really messed Up I told then to there Face that Tuff Crap he Hit my stang got what he should!!! As I was well tick off that he hit MY CAR!! The poeple looked at me and they were like what did you say I said there is Not any thing I can do..... for him..... __________________ Engine: steel mounts, Under drive pulleys, K&N, GT-40 Intake ported Lower, No power steering, No A/C, Mac cold intake, 65MM TB, 255 Fuel pump, 24's, AFR 165 58cc, Rocker Arms 1.7with the stock Cam, 1 5/8 short headers, offRoad X-pipe Drive Train: 3.55, T-5 with a Pro 5.0 shifter 12.656@107.71MPH See It at www.T-racing.com/mustang.htm

05-10-2002, 12:54 PM	#27
Stang Runner Registered Member Join Date: Jun 1999 Location: Walker, MI, USA Posts: 1,202	Not Saying that I would Run in to some one.... But animal what every does the lest damage.. __________________ Engine: steel mounts, Under drive pulleys, K&N, GT-40 Intake ported Lower, No power steering, No A/C, Mac cold intake, 65MM TB, 255 Fuel pump, 24's, AFR 165 58cc, Rocker Arms 1.7with the stock Cam, 1 5/8 short headers, offRoad X-pipe Drive Train: 3.55, T-5 with a Pro 5.0 shifter 12.656@107.71MPH See It at www.T-racing.com/mustang.htm

05-10-2002, 01:37 PM	#28
gtsr515 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Sunny, Hot, Sebring, Florida Posts: 725	Unless a 100lb. Doberman took a bite out of your rear end when you were 7 years old, HOW CAN ANYONE HATE DOGS!, they are more obedient and loyal than humans! Sorry, I'm just a DOG LOVER! __________________ Remember...2nd place is 1st place for losers!

05-10-2002, 01:49 PM	#29
Rev Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1998 Location: Houston, Tx. Posts: 3,887	Rick, after all these years, you know that you can't always take Unit 100% literally, don't you? Sometimes he's just trying to make things interesting on this board. Mr 5 0., just how many rice cars have you owned? Be honest now, hee,hee. Rev __________________ '66 Coupe, 306, 350-375 HP, C-4, 13.07 e.t., 104.8 mph, 1/4 mi. O.B.C. #2 '66 coupe

05-10-2002, 02:15 PM	#30
95mustanggt Registered Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: Kamloops, BC Posts: 2,875	Mr. 5.0 brings up a very important point here. 2 Years ago I was in a car accident, and although it was not a rear end collision, it was still a colision. Sure I'm sueing the person (blatantly ran a red light), and sure I'm going to use some of that money on my car , but I'd give it all up if could get rid of the back problems I have. Trust me getting hurt in an accident is the LAST thing you ever want to do, it affects you the rest of your life! I know animal life is valuble, but as far as I'm concerned it's me or the cat, and incase no ones noticed it's eat or get eaton out there. Bye bye Kitty, I will remember you fondly. __________________ 1995 Mustang GT 20016 F150 Lariat Super Crew

05-10-2002, 02:18 PM	#31
Mr 5 0 Conservative Individualist Join Date: May 1997 Location: Wherever I need to be Posts: 7,487	Rice confessions Mr 5 0., just how many rice cars have you owned? Be honest now, hee,hee. One. My wife's Mazda 626. Great utilitarian vehicle for the money. The Plymouth Horizon my wife used to drive was American-made by the Chrysler Corporation, long before they were taken over by Daimler-Benz. Good car. It went 140,000 miles before the head cracked and it wasn't worth repairing at that point as body rot had set in. We got $350. for it as a trade in on the Mazda.

05-10-2002, 02:19 PM	#32
The Deuce Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 2,325	Two things... First I would say that it is a natural reaction of mine to grab the brakes when anything runs in front of me. It's usually coupled with a check of the rearview to see if I'm going to get hit. Which I did once in highschool. Was driving my 944 (hydrolic bumpers) got rearended, totalled the front of a new C-class and only bent my plate. Hehe, I won that one. Second, there is a whole lot of room between the tires on a car. I have "run over" a number of animals and never made contact. Maybe I'm just lucky, but I'd hit the brakes and nail the gas to get the heck out of the way. Who loses? Depends on how fast the cat and car are. __________________ 1997 Mustang GT "The Freak" - 13.80 @ 101.70, 2.07 60' 1995 Honda VFR750 - not much @ really fast (actual data pending.) 1964.5 Mustang 289 Rice Haters Club Member #13

05-10-2002, 02:47 PM	#34
Rev Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1998 Location: Houston, Tx. Posts: 3,887	My mistake. I thought that the Horizon was actually made by Mitsubishi, and imported by Chrysler with their name on it. Rev __________________ '66 Coupe, 306, 350-375 HP, C-4, 13.07 e.t., 104.8 mph, 1/4 mi. O.B.C. #2 '66 coupe

05-10-2002, 02:51 PM	#35
jimberg Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Rogers, MN Posts: 2,089	Considering the serious injury that a human being could suffer, I would definitely nail the kitty. It's pretty foolish to concern yourself with who's at fault if you wind up crippled or worse. __________________ 351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

05-10-2002, 03:42 PM	#36
Rev Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1998 Location: Houston, Tx. Posts: 3,887	Squirrels are the problem around my neighborhood. I slow or stop for them when I can (who wouldn't), but not to cause a danger to anyone else. Mr 5 0, I can't throw any stones here as I've owned (for me or family) several ricers for the same reasons. 1.) '87 Maxima, bought used and was a good buy. Served well for several years. 2.) '94 4-Runner, bought new and my personal daily driver (almost worn out now with 139,000+ miles, but still serviceable). 3.) 2000 Lexus ES300 for my wife (her choice). Bought new and still like new with 8500 miles. Boreing, but she likes it. Rev __________________ '66 Coupe, 306, 350-375 HP, C-4, 13.07 e.t., 104.8 mph, 1/4 mi. O.B.C. #2 '66 coupe Last edited by Rev; 05-10-2002 at 05:36 PM..

05-10-2002, 03:57 PM	#37
polara7777 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Columbus, MS Posts: 324	So far the only foreign made cars I've owned are a 73 VW bus (made in Germany), a 94 Mercury Capri (made in Australia), and a Merkur XR4Ti (also made in Germany). __________________ -Ian Christopher -84 VW Vanagon (Stock so far but it barks 3rd ) -67 Dodge Polara (383 punched 30, Heavy head work, Mopar Performance single plane intake, Holley 750, electric fuel pump, Holley regulator, .484 duration cam, FRIED bottom end!) DOH!!! Fried the #1 rod bearing. Stroker kit coming! -01 Kawasaki Ninja 250 (Clear lenses, shaved fender, rear signals in the rear housing, baffles removed, Deals Gap dragon on the tail.)

05-10-2002, 04:04 PM	#38
polara7777 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Columbus, MS Posts: 324	For those who may not know the Merkur is a German Ford. In fact in Europe the same car (with a different motor) was called the Ford Sierra. The Merkur was a blast of a car (till I blew up the turbo, $800 car $1500 new turbo ummm no!) If any of you have the chance look up a sierra cosworth rs500 I want one of those bad! __________________ -Ian Christopher -84 VW Vanagon (Stock so far but it barks 3rd ) -67 Dodge Polara (383 punched 30, Heavy head work, Mopar Performance single plane intake, Holley 750, electric fuel pump, Holley regulator, .484 duration cam, FRIED bottom end!) DOH!!! Fried the #1 rod bearing. Stroker kit coming! -01 Kawasaki Ninja 250 (Clear lenses, shaved fender, rear signals in the rear housing, baffles removed, Deals Gap dragon on the tail.)

05-10-2002, 04:06 PM	#39
Mr 5 0 Conservative Individualist Join Date: May 1997 Location: Wherever I need to be Posts: 7,487	Rice as a side dish is O.K. Rev: Common error to confuse the Plymouth Horizon/Dodge Omni and the Dodge Colt, which was a re-badged Mitsubishi Mirage. No crime in owning a Japanese or other foreign car, especially as a family hauler or even a daily driver in some cases but I prefer my Mustang V-8 for my personal transportation, although I wish I could make it a fair-weather-only car but then again, I get to enjoy it every day.

05-10-2002, 05:01 PM	#40
elliotness Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: TEXAS Posts: 82	The cat would be toast.. Even if you slammed on the brakes you are not guranteed that the stupid cat will make it to the shoulder without injury. The cat may be startled into running back into traffic. __________________ 2003 Cobra (very soon) 2002 Ford Explorer 97 Mounaineer 5.0 (sounds like a stang) wifes' car

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