331 Dyno results

[302 LX Eric]

Well after chasing an idle issue that no one could figure out, Greg at Livernois Motorsports in Dearborn Heights, MI got it to idle like a champ! He also gave me a very safe tune (a/f 12.4 - 12.6) through the power band and I'm a very happy customer. Here
were the results on Livernois' Mustang Dynamometer:

330 RWHP @ 5250 RPM
355 RWTQ @ 4000 RPM

Considering this is a Mustang Dyno (Load Bearing) and not a Dyno-Jet, the numbers are 20-30 lower than what I would see on a Dyno-Jet. But, numbers are just numbers...I can't wait for my next race on May 7. I'm hoping for 115 mph trap speed on DRs.

So, I'm putting out about 400 FWHP and 425 FWTQ on my 331 combo. BTW, the combo is essentially this:

DSS 331 - all forged combo w/H-beams
10:1 compression
TW TFS heads with mild porting
TFS Track Heat Intake
Anderson N-41 cam
75 mm Pro-M MAF
75 mm TB
24 lbs injectors
Tremec 3550
Aurburn Pro w/31 spline axles w/3.73 gear

I was very impressed with Livernois' setup. I got a complete tour of the facility upon arrival from Greg and met alot of the guys (I even got a compliment from Dan Millen on my Bogarts!). The engine clean rooms, flow benchs, engine dyno, chassis dyno, retail area, offices, garage area, etc. all were VERY clean and VERY organized. That is one heck of an operation they have up there. Definitely worth the 200 mile drive from Columbus.

I'll try to get the dyno graph up today (still trying to figure it out).

E

[302 LX Eric]

Well, I can't seem to get the graph to show up clearly. I'm scanning it in and then saving the image as a JPEG file, but it's really faint on the website. I dunno. Sorry.

E

[Hozer 88GTConv]

How did you get 10:1?

I've got TRW flat tops with my TW heads and the math I've got with that cc and deck height is closer to 9.7...

I doubt your pistons are domed with TW heads.

Great numbers though, what are the specs on that N-41?
Are you limited to .512" lift with your heads?

Like I said though, great numbers...

[302 LX Eric]

The 10:1 was achieved through milling of the heads. The heads now yield 58 cc combustion chambers and coupled with the following specs produces 10.02:1 compression.

4.030 Bore
3.250 Stroke
5.315 Rod Length
4.100 Gasket Bore Diameter
0.041 Gasket Thickness
1.250 Compression Height
8.206 Deck Height
4.025 Piston Diameter at Top Ring Land
0.175 Distance from Top of Piston to Ring Land
5.000 Total Valve Relief Volume (cc)
58.00 Combustion Chamber Volume (cc)

I took these amounts and plugged them into Jeff Chambers' website where he has a compression calculator and I got 10.02:1. I also did this calculation on another automotive website and got the same thing.

Plus, the pistons are Probe Sportsman Race Series Pistons with HUGE valve reliefs so I can run lots of life and duration without clearance issues. total lift with my 1.72 rr is .550 and I'm using Anderson's high rev valve springs.

E

[Dark_5.0]

That is a killer set-up Eric, and great numbers for a safe tune.

You dont happen to know all the numbers I could plug into the ananyzer you used for a stock block.

I have a stock short block with 54cc chambered heads. I am thinking my compression is around 9.5 to 1

[Ackbar00]

Very nice their cheif!! I am going to wait to dyno mine, untill I get my new engine.

BTW: What did the dyno and tunning run you?

[302 LX Eric]

Originally posted by Dark_5.0
That is a killer set-up Eric, and great numbers for a safe tune.

You dont happen to know all the numbers I could plug into the ananyzer you used for a stock block.

I have a stock short block with 54cc chambered heads. I am thinking my compression is around 9.5 to 1

Thanks, Dark.

I think the stock numbers are as follows (someone please confirm):

4.000 - Bore
3.000 - Stroke
5.090 - Rod Length
4.100 - Gasket Bore Diameter
0.041 - Gasket Thickness
1.605 - Compression Height
8.206 - Deck Height
3.995 - Piston Diameter at Top Ring Land
0.175 - Distance from Top of Piston to Ring Land
4.600 - Total Valve Relief Volume (cc)
54.00 - Combustion Chamber Volume (cc)

If you put these numbers in, you get 9.85:1 compression, which sounds about right.

Jeff might be able to chime in and let us know if these numbers are accurate for a stock 5.0 (except for the 54 cc chambers on your heads).

Hope this helps,
E

[Dark_5.0]

Thanks man, 9.85 to 1 isnt bad if that is correct.

I am still debating between a 331 and a 351. 331 would be cheaper though so that may be the deciding factor.

I am surprised that your HP peaked that soon.

[fiveohpatrol]

where exactly are they located, and do you mind asking what they charge to dyno or tune?

I'd love to check their place out sometime, and try to steal Dan Millen's car

[302 LX Eric]

Originally posted by Dark_5.0
Thanks man, 9.85 to 1 isnt bad if that is correct.

I am still debating between a 331 and a 351. 331 would be cheaper though so that may be the deciding factor.

I am surprised that your HP peaked that soon.

I've been kicking around a long-term idea of building up a 408 or 427 stroker to drop in and keep it N/A. Something with like 10.5:1 compression so that I can still run pump gas and have a really killer street car, I dunno. Or another 331 w/R block, low compression and BIG a$$ turbo or ProCharger. We can all dream can't we?

I was surprised the HP peaked that soon too! However with the track heat intake and 1/2" spacer I've essentially created a longer intake path thus producing more low-end and sacrificing a little HP on the top end. With the peak at 5250, it still makes over 300 RWHP from 4600 - 6200 so I'll probably try shifting around 5800 or so and see what that nets. Plus, the TQ curve on this 331 is insane! I'm around 340ish+ RWTQ from 3800 to 5000. I love it.

One other thing is that I went a little overboard on my stroker package in so much as I used H-beam rods instead of I-beams (or even the lightened I-beams), standard Flat-tops instead of the Pro-Lite Piston and a 4340 forged crank. The block will split six ways to Sunday before that crank or rods even think about giving up the ghost. So, I'm probably a bit heavy on the rotating assembly as compared to what I could have done. This may partially explain the 5250 max HP and higher TQ numbers.

E

[302 LX Eric]

Originally posted by fiveohpatrol
where exactly are they located, and do you mind asking what they charge to dyno or tune?

I'd love to check their place out sometime, and try to steal Dan Millen's car

They are located in Dearborn Hts. MI, which is just outside of Detroit. They're about 5 mins from Detroit's Airport. Very easy to get to off of I-94 and Ecorse road.

The dyno rate is supposed to be like $125 an hour, but depending upon what you're doing (full chip tune is $600) and scheduling an appointment through Greg it all depends. I actually already had an Autologic Chip from JMS so we ended up using my existing chip and to do the reburns on. Greg knocked off $100 for that.

I also had to have one of their techs weld in another bung for the wide-band 02 sensor which was $65.

I arrived at 10:00 am for my appointment and left Livernois close to 3:00pm. Out the door $514.

Greg took me back to the shop to check out Dan's car. A couple of guys were thrashing into it trying to get it ready for this weekends NMRA race in Columbus. They're calling for rain this weekend so we'll just have to wait and see. I plan on going if the weather holds.

E

[sedanman]

Nice numbers, I cant wait to do a 331. They work so well I just have to decide on what block to run.

[7K331]

If you add teh difference to the Dyno jet they are real close to what I dyno'd when I was running a similar set up. (mine was 347hp/380tq). Car ran 11.90's at 114-115 all day. The sick part was the power was all bottom & It came & went by about 5800.