North Korea and Iraq...

[302 LX Eric]

While preparing for a likely war with Iraq, Korea has stepped in just in time to muddy the waters for the United States... MSNBC N. Korea story

This N. Korean debacle has been brewing for the last couple of months and seems to be coming to a head at the worst time - most certainly a sly political move by the N. Koreans.

It will be interesting to see how this unfolds in terms of world support since China, Japan and Russia have a more vested interest in keeping their neighbor at bay. Plus, with the flagrant nature in which they rebuffed the nucular treaties and inspectors (i.e. throwing them out of the country and dismantling all oversight of their facilities) one would hope that the U.N. would more easily recognize the threat that N. Korea poses to the rest of the world. I'm sure France views it otherwise.

Comments?

E

[Hammer]

Either one of two things is happening:

1. With our attention diverted elsewhere, the DPRK sees this as a chance to get various political gains versus the US. They will say and do anything to get those concessions as they feel safer that we have less of a capability in that part of the world right now.
They have a starving nation teetering on collapse... these are the most dangerous nations to deal with as the regime figures it can't get any worse.... so they'll say and do whatever they feel like, no matter what the actual truth behind their motives may be.

2. With a destroyed Hussein regime virtually certain when we go in, the DPRK is scared we will find certain skeletons in their closet. Ones that they want no one to see. If they're hiding so-called "legal" weapons shipments below bags of foodstuffs, just what "illegal" weapons may they be shipping to other places?
Iraq? Al Quaeda? Who knows.... There's definately more to this than meets the eye.

Its funny that they keep saying we are going to launch a pre-emptive strike when we've publicly stated we have no intention of doing so. Its also funny that they seem willing to do ANYTHING and threaten anything to get a non-agression treaty from the US. Why would this be SUCH a priority at this point of time. After 50 years of two sides staring at each other over land mines... Why Now? That is the real question...

What would I do in GW's position?

Let them stew, let them squeal, let them sweat it out and pronounce war until they are blue in the face. Let's get the job done in Iraq and see where it leads.

The DPRK regime is desperate for something....
But a few things stand out:
We know darn well that Russia, China and Japan are not going to sit idle and let radioactive clouds disperse all over the region if the DPRK lose their minds. China is making a LOT of money with their cheap labor force and international trade... They will not back up their mad-dog pet this time.
The DPRK does not have a long range missile capable of hitting the continental US.... and I sincerely doubt Alaska or Hawaii are within range either. All they can do is destroy their immediate area, and if it comes down to it, their neighbors are not going to stand by and let that happen.

And what about South Korea?
Lots of good Americans died driving the communists back in the 50s. South Korea has enjoyed freedom and prosperity because a few US soldiers sit on a border protecting them. Around 18 months ago, North and South Korea were trading fire from warships and Noth Korea was making spy missions in a deisel sub against the south. Now all of a sudden they are best buds, and WE are the enemy. It seems South Korea has a shorter memory than France and Germany. Yes there were a couple of incidents where a couple of soldiers got into trouble within the civilian population. Are you going to ally yourself with a sworn enemy that would love to take everything you own and crush you just for the actions of a TINY percentage of those protecting you?

I'm getting sick of seeing demonstrations and violence against our men in South Korea. Keep it up South Korea... One day we just might take our toys and go home. And then you'll find out just how friendly the DPRK are....

[1969Mach1]

I think the US is causing more conflict then they should be. I don't believe that North Korea is doing anything that anyone wouldn't feel. The US has already mentioned that they will be next, so they obviously arn't going to sit and wait for the US to finish with Iraq. I think the US better start thinking of some better plans. This being a mostly american used board, I will stay quite with what I believe. Regardless free speech, it won't stop me from being flamed. To all there own, I just believe there is a better way to solve some of our issues other then war.

I can almost see a world war starting up if the US goes to war with Iraq. With technology so advanced, we'll distroy ourselves in seconds.

-§am.

[69fastback]

I say we take our toys and go home form south korea. I spent a year over there and they really don't like us at all. The Koreans that are around the military bases love us to death because all the soilders go down town and throw their money away on drinks and women. You go outside of toose areas and we are hated with a passion. After 50 years i don't know what the hell the problem is and they need to get over it. Still not sure why the US even cares about North Korea. We are going to go take care of Iraq then deal with North Korea later. I just really think there is more to this also. Why is all this going on now? Seems like it might be the start of a world war who knows I agree though i can't see china and russia sitting by and letting north korea launch nukes they dont' have anywhere to go but in that region.

oh hey i was kinda watching the news last night while making dinner and heard something about using tactcal nukes for some bunkers. i hope i was mistaken when i heard this.

[Hammer]

oh hey i was kinda watching the news last night while making dinner and heard something about using tactcal nukes for some bunkers. i hope i was mistaken when i heard this.

Actually you weren't...
They're called "bunker busters" and were designed to deal with some of the underground\cave problems we had in Afghanistan.

They are actually very low yield nuclear devices that can get to the bad guys hiding underground more by shock waves than anything else. Due to the low yield, the radiation disperses quickly and the area can be re-used again in a very short time.

Kind of a NUC-Light...

I think the US is causing more conflict then they should be. I don't believe that North Korea is doing anything that anyone wouldn't feel. The US has already mentioned that they will be next, so they obviously arn't going to sit and wait for the US to finish with Iraq. I think the US better start thinking of some better plans. This being a mostly american used board, I will stay quite with what I believe. Regardless free speech, it won't stop me from being flamed. To all there own, I just believe there is a better way to solve some of our issues other then war.

Thanks to free speech you can say whatever you feel, and I personally would never flame you. Although I might disagree with some of your points.

I don't see the US "causing conflict" I see conflict being brought to us because we are seen as an "empire" trying to take over the world. In my opinion, nothing could be more from the truth, but power sometimes breeds fear.... in many instances, this is what we're dealing with.

As far as the Iraq situation is concerned.... Its fairly straight forward. Certain requirements were made under the terms of surrender after the Gulf War due to the civilized world's fears of Saddam possesing WMD. We knew he had them, they were catalogued, and some were destroyed. The UN team was set up to finish the job. After the armed forces left the region, Saddam starts playing a shell game with the inspectors and eventually throws them out with tons of documented WMD left in the country. Saddam has defied the cease fire of the gulf war, tons of UN resolutions, starved his people and built palaces and continued development of WMD all during the current embargo. And has blamed it ALL on the United States....

The reason the Iraqi people are in dire straights is Saddam Hussein. The blame is his.... He is a tyrant that will hold onto power any way he can. It doesn't matter how he does it, how many of the opposition have to die, how many have to be tortured. (Much like his buddy in North Korea)
He has gassed his own people, he has tortured to gain concessions, he has attempted to overthrow another nation.
He has paid the families of suicide bombers. Set up training camps for known terrorists. Maybe this is someone who doesn't need WMD capability.....

As far as the statement from our administration that North Korea will be next, I'd like to see a quote on that, as I don't believe anyone in our government who has any power whatsoever would be stupid enough to say that. (Maybe some moronic senator...) Its been pretty much stated that we will continue to push for a diplomatic solution. The DPRK can play "give us what we want" all day. It doesn't change a thing.

As far as the course we are going on? I believe GWB is going about this the right way and I support him one hundred percent.

[frdgrl]

Missile defense

"GROUND WAS broken Saturday at Fort Greely for the start of construction of the nation's new missile defense system. And a good thing that is, despite the predictable opposition from groups that constantly rail against America taking steps to defend itself."

This was from 2002 archives of the Anch. newspaper. There was alot of hoopla about this and then absolutely NOTHING. The herd got panicy up here when they found out that North Korean can lock on to Alaska or so the rumor goes. It was a really strange thing nothing was said about Fort Greely or missile defense systems, then all of a sudden some strange activity. Bush was here and VOILA! a new missile defense system is being built. I've been associated with the military since I was born and I have to say that was the fastest thing I've ever seen done. I could be getting rusty being inside the box (Alaska). Anyone else hear about this?

Sorry, this is a little off subject.

[Hammer]

The herd got panicy up here when they found out that North Korean can lock on to Alaska or so the rumor goes.

I'm pretty sure that the DPRK's newest production missile is still a medium range missile.... with Alaska being out of its range. (Unless someone was REALLY industrious and made a large missile platform out of an oil tanker or something. The DPRK does not have missile capable subs)

The actual rumor that I have heard is the new DPRK missile in development, while not a true ICBM, may have a longer range, which may put certain areas of Alaska in jeapordy. Hence the sudden rush of a ABM system.

[302 LX Eric]

Originally posted by frdgrl
Missile defense

Sorry, this is a little off subject.

No, it's definitely relevant. The entire picture of our current situation with Korea and Iraq is quite large and this is an integral piece - especially in the long run.

The 'ponds' are getting smaller so to speak and don't offer the same protection they once did. The terrorist attacks of 9/11 bring home a very real threat that must be addressed. Although this is a entirely different arena than nucular warheads reaching US soil, it parallels in that it concerns us on our land.

Although GWB didn't get everything he wanted out of the missle defense system, it's a start that I feel is a step in the right direction. 'One up-ing' your enemy (or possible future enemy) is a game that we must play and will play forever.

When the US first developed nucular weapons that could deliver their payloads thousands of miles away, the Cold War really heated up (no pun). Now, other countries are developing/have the technology to develop nucular weapons that pose a clear threat. Therefore, if we can develop a reliable missle defense system, we've effectively eliminated N. Korea's (or others) missle programs - to some extent.



A good discussion.

E

thanks for the info Hammer, its good to know all the information before spouting off about things that i don't really know. but now i know.

[Crazy Horse GT]

they should have let us finish iraq in 91, when i was there, i knew this was going to happen.

[mustangII460]

All I have to say is:

"LET THE BODIES HIT THE FLOOR"

[bigbandjohn]

With Iraq:

On reflection, I understand why Bush stopped where he did, and in his way he was right. However, the failure occured when Clinton and the UN didn't follow through in finishing the job like they were supposed to in the first resoltion that Iraq broke back in 1993... as well as the 15 subsequent resolutions Iraq broke. Remember, we are technicly not at peace with Iraq - but the Kuwait/Iraq war is just in a temporary state of cease-fire while Iraq complies with the resolutions, which they haven't.

As for Korea:

I say we knock out the reactor quickly before they start it up. No reactor, no weapons grade radioactive material can be made. Major part of the problem solved for a little while at least.

[QHStang]

MY Daddy s Plan is the best i've herd yet and i do belive its the one we should go with he calls it "The Glass Parkinglot Plan"
and it involes 1 nuk and a lot of SAND!!
I dont know what will happen and to be honest i dont think i have a lot of say but i do have a lot of faith in our PRES. and our country so what every thay do i stand behind them 110%
UNLESS...........
thay bring the war to us
If we are going to fight lets get to them B4 thay get to us again!

[MissBlondie]

Originally posted by QHStang
MY Daddy s Plan is the best i've herd yet and i do belive its the one we should go with he calls it "The Glass Parkinglot Plan"
and it involes 1 nuk and a lot of SAND!!
I dont know what will happen and to be honest i dont think i have a lot of say but i do have a lot of faith in our PRES. and our country so what every thay do i stand behind them 110%
UNLESS...........
thay bring the war to us
If we are going to fight lets get to them B4 thay get to us again!

I'd have to say this is the best idea I've heard yet! lol Sorry but I had to laugh when Bush was giving his state of the union, and he said "I'm hoping we can still resolve this peacefully" (speaking about Iraq) We haven't resolved it peacefully in 20 years, what makes you think we can now?? I'm 110% behind our President, as I feel like being an American I should be, and I will always support the United States, but I'm with this guy on the parking lot plan. It's a tough situation that we're already in over our heads, so just finish the job already. I remember Persian Gulf when I was younger, and although I wasn't over there, people in my family were, and after September 11th I had many close friends overseas. It's not ever gonna end peacefully. IMO

-Jill

[bigbandjohn]

Originally posted by MissBlondie
I'd have to say this is the best idea I've heard yet! lol Sorry but I had to laugh when Bush was giving his state of the union, and he said "I'm hoping we can still resolve this peacefully" (speaking about Iraq) We haven't resolved it peacefully in 20 years, what makes you think we can now?? I'm 110% behind our President, as I feel like being an American I should be, and I will always support the United States, but I'm with this guy on the parking lot plan. It's a tough situation that we're already in over our heads, so just finish the job already. I remember Persian Gulf when I was younger, and although I wasn't over there, people in my family were, and after September 11th I had many close friends overseas. It's not ever gonna end peacefully. IMO

-Jill

Well, the only way to solve this peacefully is for Saddam to step down or for him to show his hand for real. But yeah, it seems highly doubtful.

But we can hope. We can pray. I don't want a war if it can be helped, but I too am behind our President as I feel he is really trying to avoid a war within all reason. In fact, I think he's even gone a step beyond what is reasonable to avoid war, but it seems that may be ending soon.

There goes my trip to England. :-(

John

P.S. I like the drawing, Jill. Did you do that?