Interesting, And they make a good point, however, GM and the rest of the american car companies are already working on hybrid vehicles, as far as I know, and its not suprising they are behind the japs once again in technology.

And finally, I have no interest in saving GM. They could go out of business tomorrow, and I wouldnt care. Im a Ford guy, as most people on this web site are.

GM deserves to go under for the garbage they have been making for the last 25 years.

Eco-nuts
 

Ultraflow:

Read the screed. Bunch of BS, in my opinion.

This is just of bunch of eco-whackos and global warming true believers that hate cars, pimping for something that they want us to believe is the salvation of the U.S. It isn't. These people hate corporations and this is just another stupid attack on U.S. business by highly educated idiots who think we should all eat twigs and leaves and bicycle to work. Not my crowd.

Conservation won't do the job, we need to shove the tree-huggers out of the way, stop wringing our hands over the spotted owl or whatever and start drilling for available oil right here in the U.S.

Incidentally, Japan is big on gas-saving vehicles because they not only have a poor economy now but they import 100% of their gasoline, making it hideously expensive there. We don't need to do that; there are oil reserves in the U.S. and under the ocean we can tap if the eco-nuts get out of the way and stop blocking oil exploration while touting for tiny, electric/gas cars that no one wants but that fit their vision of a pristine America.

Screw them.

Ahhhh....yes I was about to go off on a rant but, Mr.5.0 took care of it for me.

Thank you:) ,

I thought you two would get a kick out of this! A guy that I get my benchmade knives from sent me this... he lives in California with all of those other tree huggers (before anyone reminds me that my line of thinking is disgusting, not all Californians are tree huggers, just those in govt. that represent them):rolleyes:

Mr. 5.0 (ROTFLMAO) I truly appreciate your line of thinking... I couldn't agree with you more. I'm no tree hugger, and I believe that we (Americans) should tell OPEC to stick it up their bung-holes and, indeed, start drilling for our own oil. Educated idiots, ah yes.... IMO, when someone tells me how great a japanese, chinese, or saudi (waiting for bin Laden or Saddam to make a car so everyone will go out and buy it, and say how great it is) my stomach turns. A fact is a fact, and I have trouble digesting that one!

On a side note:
I guess we should have sent thousands of men over to Japan and have them slaughtered rather than drop two bombs on them and call it a day. How many Marines died at Iwo Jima? And I'm supposed to feel bad for our obliviating Japan and the treatment of Japanese Americans, LOL. What a joke! No remorse here... I suppose we'll be hearing more about how bad the towelbandits are being treated at Guantanamo Bay... the world is a scary place! Kill or be killed...

Anyhow, enough ranting:
I have been told that GM has the technology to produce such a car... I would much rather see them come back with a decent Camaro to compete with the Mustang. I wouldn't wish that GM go out of business, I like Chevy trucks. I don't care for the fact that they sell foreign crap at their dealerships either, but so does Ford. They want a piece of the market share... greedy Americans! LOL

In honor of Earth Week, give me a break! Already got a GM, a 2000 Z71 ext. cab 1500 Silverado, and love it! Nothing will ever come close to my love for the fox-body Mustang though, never! (well, maybe some hot blonde:D )

Thank you for your thoughts, appreciated!

So nobody wants a Honda Civic Hybrid? It gets 48 mpg, and puts out an astonishing 87 hp! I'm seriously considering one:D

Real solid vehicle with technologically advanced engineering! Everyone should have one!:p

Try to save GM and win a Honda? WOW:rolleyes:

Maybe this guy can help us out... MENSA voted this guy the best president of all time (astonishing) - speaking of educated idiots!
http://web.mit.edu/dlane/www/leno/020998clinton.gif

No you cant! :D

You must root for the White Sox!......... Wait, theyre a northern team too....... doh.... :)

andy

What foreign car is Ford selling at their dealerships? Wont find no "Geos" over at the Ford dealer.

The Ford Ranger and Ford Probe are glorified Mazdas... what about the Jaguar, and whatever anyone has traded in on a new Ford, be it a Geo (yuck) or anything else you could come up with.

Don't forget about the Daewoo, a local GM dealer sells those POS's also...

I think you misunderstand what Im talking about. The Ford Ranger is built by Ford and sold with a Mazda name on it. It has a Ford engine, and is a Ford. Anyway, im getting sidetracked. All the manufactures have "cross breeds" if you will, but GM is taking an entirely Jap car and selling it under the GEO name. The Geo prism is a toyota. The geo tracker is a suzuki. The geo metro is a Suzuki. And I mean 100% suzuki and toyota. Theres no mix and match of parts. Its a foreign car with the name GEO on it. Do you see the difference? Ford doesnt do this as far as I can tell.

Doesnt the Probe have a Ford engine?

Selling a Daewoo at a "combined" Chevy/Daewoo dealer is not the same as selling a Jap car under the name GEO from a Chevy dealer. There is no GEO. Its just a name on a different cars. GEO never made a car in thier life. GE0 doesnt even exist. A GEO is a name on another car. This is not the case with the brands you mentioned.

The Ford Probe was discontinued in 1996, the Mazda B series is a glorified Ranger.

Ford/Mercury/Lincoln's Current Lineup.

-Focus
-Mustang
-Taurus
-Ranger
-F Series
-Escape
-Explorer
-Expedition
-Excursion
-Cougar
-Sable
-Mountaineer
-Continental
-Town Car
-LS
-Navigator
-Blackwood

I'm not seeing a whole lot of imports there. I may have left some out. Sure there are parts on the cars that came from overseas, but the cars themselves are based here, primarily. Global Marketplace. Get used to it.

On the China subject, I feel it keeps inching closer to a civil war there. I don't like the idea they have nuclear weapons, or that their military seems to have a great deal of power over the supposed leadership. I certainly don't believe that it's a stable country, or that it's govenment is to be trusted even one bit. I think all the trade that we've been doing with them has served the US interest within that country. I believe China has become quite dependant on money from the United States, and the government knows it. Unfortunately, I also believe the military doesn't care, and it will attempt to perform a coup de dat if it sees an opportunity.

On the Japan subject, I don't like the fact we still support them with our military. It's high time that Japan was given the obligation to create it's own military. Their economy has been very poor in the last few years, probably due largely to the NAFTA agreement, technology manufacturing in Singapore, China, and Korea. Japan has very little in regards to natural resources, or land area. It is a country very much dependant on the global economy to prosper. Now that it is seeing increased competition from it's Asian neighbors, and a growing relationship with Mexican and Canadian workers from US industries, I think it is much more obvious how dependant the Japanese are on the American market. Japanses businesses have protected themselves by diversification, betting that demand for a great deal of different products will not collapse all at once. Honda and Yamaha are great examples of this. Obviously, if a business can diversify a great deal, it can save a tremendous amount of money by cooperation between different divisions. The added communication probably better serves technology and implementation of new ideas across a variety of sectors as well. That being said, I truely believe the US does not lag behind anybody in the world as far as technology is concerned. I don't believe Ford, anyway, lags behind the Japanese in automotive technology, either. I do believe Ford has chosen to focus it's attention partially on overseas markets, and that they've chosen to implement only technology which is marketable within their products.

What could be our greatest ally, could be our once greatest foe. I think Russia has tremendous potential as an American ally. It's unfortunate, but understandable given historical information how Russia is a bit xenophobic, and reluctant to trust outside countries. Their current leader Putin, is nothing more than a soldier. Neither do I believe he is capable of helping his people, nor is he likely to allow the US to bail Russia out in an attempt to gain on the long term investment. Maybe I'm just biased in favor of Russian women accents? LOL

The Probe was nothing more than a Mazda MX-6 with a little different body treatment. LOL, one of my co-workers had a Probe with a Mazda factory badge inside the door.

The only Probe engine that was designed by Ford was used from 1989-1992. The 3.0L OHV V-6 in the Probe LX.

Hmm... may just be me, but Geo was discontinued as a brand altogether a couple years ago. Chevy Tracker, and Chevy Prism, and Chevy Metro are what they go by now if I'm correct. Oh, and Honda builds Saturn engines.

Excellent points Unit...

My sister had a '90 Ranger that had a Mazda motor and tranny

My mother has a '01 Ranger with a Ford 4.0L

Kinda confusing, I realize, but the old ranger is where I came up with the ranger being a glorified mazda... :D

My sister's '01 Chevy Trailblazer is an awesome SUV or whatever you wish to call it, 270hp in-line 6 pot! Damn, it's smooth!

As far as the hybrid technology goes, the Ford Escape hybrid due out in 2003 is claimed to get up to 40 mpg with its gas/electric engine.

"For all their benefits, however, hybrids do cost a few thousand dollars more than their gas-only counterparts. While you may be able to recoup that money in fuel savings within 10 years, it's still a big initial investment. And the batteries are guaranteed under warranty for only eight years, at which point customers may have to shell out as much as $2,000 for a replacement.

'People are not willing to pay extra money for fuel economy in the U.S.,' says Rich Marsh, who heads GM's hybrid-truck program. That's why GM plans to market its hybrid Sierra and Siverado pickups, due out in 2004, not on their tiny 2 mpg improvment in fuel consumption but on the benefits of their onboard electric generators and standard outlets for plugging in power tools."

...I just read this in TIME magazine. I would rather see cheaper prices at the pump than electric vehicles with no power. In the article, the author stated that Ford would not let him drive the Escape up the steepest of hills during a test drive.

Geopolitics
 

Unit:

I read your last post with interest and found agreement with your analysis of China and Japan but I see Russia (and Putin) a bit differently.

Vladimir Putin, the Prime Minister of Russia, is more than simply 'a soldier'. Yes, he was in the KGB for 16 years but he's also an attorney, was a university rector and held many administrative positions before becoming acting PM and then the elected PM in 1999. He's no peasant.

Putin has established a working relationship with President Bush, has reformed the tax code in Russia (they have a 13% flat tax which is wildly successful in bringing in revenue) and his economic policies have seen Russia's economic growth to rise over 8% last year, the biggest rise in decades. Oil sales have a lot to do with this, of course, but not all.

Communism is dead in Russia and Putin is a new breed of Russian leader. In short, this is not your father's Russia.

I believe Russia - and Putin - can be an excellent ally of the United States, especially if war breaks out in the mid-east. as I expect it will by the end of this year.

Of course Russians are xenophobic; they've lived in a closed society for 70 years and were told that Russia invented everything and the U.S. is an enemy. This will take time to recede, but it will.

Vladimir Putin is no JFK, but he's no fool either and he can and will bring Russia into the 21st century. I like him, as much as I've ever liked a Russian leader and as I mentioned before, things have changed in Russia.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Unit 5302
[B]The Ford Probe was discontinued in 1996, the Mazda B series is a glorified Ranger.

Ford/Mercury/Lincoln's Current Lineup.

-Focus
-Mustang
-Taurus
-Ranger
-F Series
-Escape
-Explorer
-Expedition
-Excursion
-Cougar
-Sable
-Mountaineer
-Continental
-Town Car
-LS
-Navigator
-Blackwood

I'm not seeing a whole lot of imports there.


Thanks for clearing that up for me Unit. I didnt take the time to do the reserach as you did, but the results were what I expected. The most Jap influenced car in that lineup would probably be the Escape, as its brother is the Mazda Tribute.

I think your right about the GEO name, as the last tracker I saw was a Chevy tracker, not a Geo tracker, but its still the Suzuki. Where the Ford Escape/MAzda Tribute was a joint effort between Ford and mazda, the Chevy Tracker is 100% Suzuki, So GM is selling Jap cars with the thier name on them. Not uncommon, but I dont see Ford doing it currently.

As far as Americans not paying more for a Hybrid vehicle, I agree with that, and the reason is simply the low prices for gasoline in this country. A lot of the world pays a lot more for gasoline (Europe is a good example) and they sell a lot more small, economy cars in those countries for that reason.

The low gas prices are a luxery we shouldnt count on forever and could go bye, bye at any time, which could make the Hybrid vehicles a success in this country some day.

I have no idea what engine went into the Ranger in 1990 that would have been a Mazda engine. I think there was a 2.3L I-4 (Ford), 2.9L V-6 (Ford), and a 4.0L (Ford)

I wasn't really talking about recent history, Mr 5 0. I was talking within the last few hundred years. Russia has been invaded, and threatened so many times I believe it's been built right into their society not to trust outsiders. I think it's even moreso with the US since the US is known to now be more powerful than they are.

My critisism of Putin may be unjust. I know one of the major things he dealt with right off the bat was the banking system over there making tremendous amounts of profit by playing the monetary system, and that took definate guts and commitment.

It just seems as though he hasn't been public enough to the rest of the world. I feel as though he could do a better job marketing his country, but maybe I'm wrong. I wish Japan would have pulled their head out of their you know what to help Russia build some oil drilling equipment instead of squabbling over a meaningless island that is Russia's fair and square.

Ok I have to share something with you
 

Finally something I know about,

I sat and read many of your positions about how "American" Ford Motor Company is. I love Ford products, however, let's not be naive about our cars.

If you are driving a Ford, parts from your car were assembled or made overseas. I don't want to get to deep on you but I can say with 100% certainty that Fords are not entirely American.

Ever heard of NAFTA.

Many companies, American companies, divert products to Mexico through the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA). The companies, for instance, send parts to Mexico for them to be assembled. Mexican labor is cheaper, thereby making the end product cheaper. The product is re-imported into the United States as "American Goods Returned." This is totally legal and above board. This allows the company to import the goods without paying United States Customs Duties.

Some companies send parts to Mexico, say for instance parts for a carburator. When the parts return they are fully assembled engines. The company lists them as "American Goods Returned." Therefore, avoiding high duty (TAX) rates from the U.S. Customs Service.

So don't be so smug about "Ford" being all American, because they may not be.

Elliot Ness

Ford sold a pickup known as the Courier, which was a Mazda with a few styling changes made by Ford...

And I apologize for the incorrect info on the '90 Ranger
(my foot stinks, but I'm getting used to the taste)

Is the Fiesta an "all-American" ...what about the Festiva?

I'm getting a lesson on foreign affairs... what in the world have you guys been reading?

The Ford Fiesta is a POS German engineered box on wheels.

However...

The Ford Festiva was brought to the US based upon an original concept (mid 80's) by Ford Motor Company to provide an economical passenger vehicle for the first time car buyer, the primary target market being North America (US and Canada) Later, the nameplate would be applied to secondary overseas markets consisting of Japan, Taiwan, Dominican Republic, Phillipines, and Venezuela (South America).

Mechanical and primary styling aspects of the Festiva were based on an existing (then pending) design from Mazda (to be known as Mark 1 121) of Japan. Several styling cues from Ford (Dearborn, MI USA) were applied to the Festiva such as the aero headlamps and floating Ford emblem to ensure identification within the Ford product line in the late Eighties.

Actual production of the Festiva destined for the North American market was begun in 1987 by Kia Motors of Seoul, South Korea (the Festiva was final assembled in Sohari, South Korea). Kia was already manufacturing the Kia Pride (began in mid-86) for the South Korean market. Mid-86 also marked the beginning of Ford's collaboration with Kia. At the same time, Mazda began their own production of the Mazda 121 and Ford Festiva for the Japanese (apparently no Mazda 121's were sold in Japan), Australian, New Zealand and European markets.

Production of the Mazda 121/Japanese spec Ford Festiva ran from 1987 to 1992 and among the lineup was the only true high-performance model of the Ford Festiva from the factory that was ever offered (Festiva GT-X). Australia received the Mazda 121 (Japanese built 2-door) during the late 1980's. In 1992 Ford began importing the Kia-built 4 door hatchback, then later a 2-door hatchback. In 1994, they were replaced by the Aspire/Avella type bodystyle (still kept the name Festiva though).

Huh?:D

It is worth noting that the Ford Festiva sold in Australia and New Zealand to this day is actually based on the Kia Avella (same platform as the former Ford Aspire). In Japan, the current Ford Festiva (wagon) is manufactured by Mazda (based on pre-99 121 "bubble car", again related to Kia Avella).