Timing-Poping paper out of plug 1?

jpumpkinn · 12-07-2002, 12:52 PM

I have been researching different ways to check to see if my timing chain broke. Several sites post a method that involves puting a paper towel in to the spark plug hole of plug number1 and cranking the engine. The paper should then pop out.

My question is simple. If the paper does not pop out, that would mean the chain is broken and is not turning the pistons. Right?

Will this method of checking dependably tell me if my chain is broken?

thanks

Agent_4573 · 12-07-2002, 02:30 PM

no it doesn't mean the pistons aren't turning. The timing chain is what turns the camshaft which in turns opens and closes the valves. If you timing chain is broke the valves won't open and the paper towel/shop rag won't popout because you will have no compression. This method of the rag is basically a very low tech way to do a compression check and I would recomend you borrow a kit and actually do a compression check.

On the other hand, why don't u just pop off a valve cover and see if the vavles are opening and closing?

WADS56 · 12-07-2002, 02:42 PM

If you think that your chain is broke that means something is very wrong with your motor. You should start taking it apart now because you will have to anyway. Like Agent said take off a valve cover and that will let you know real quick. I hope this is not true because you will be needing allot more then a chain if one cut loose when you were driving. Thats why I love gear drives.

jpumpkinn · 12-07-2002, 02:50 PM

If the chain is broken then what other things will I have to fix on my engine?

WADS56 · 12-07-2002, 02:54 PM

You could be looking at bent valves, bent pushrods, and damaged pistons for starters.

HotRoddin · 12-07-2002, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jpumpkinn
I have been researching different ways to check to see if my timing chain broke. Several sites post a method that involves puting a paper towel in to the spark plug hole of plug number1 and cranking the engine. The paper should then pop out.

Maybe i missed something but you didn't say if your car would start or run ?? If the timing chain is broken it won't run, it won't even begin to start ... and if you suspect your timing chain is broken i wouldn't crank the engine either or you could cause yourself untold heartaches ! With the chain broken you have no valve timing ... you have valves wide open while the pistons are going up and down ... you could bend valves, gouge pistons ... if you suspect its broken i'd take the timing chain cover off and look at it !

HotRoddin · 12-07-2002, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by WADS56
You could be looking at bent valves, bent pushrods, and damaged pistons for starters.

You beat me to the post ....
YEAH ...WHAT HE SAID !! LOL

Murdock · 12-07-2002, 05:22 PM

How about this? Take off your distributor cap and turn the motor over by hand. If the rotor in the distributor does not turn then yes the timing chain is not doing its job.

Hope this helps
Murdock

jpumpkinn · 12-07-2002, 07:59 PM

I lifted off the valve cover and the valves are still moving when I crank it. I all so did the paper towel test and it poped out when I cranked it. When I hooked a pressure guage to spark plug 1 the psi read about 125 max and 115 min pressure.

I don't think its the chain after all, unless the chain jumped. Is this a safe assumption?

jpumpkinn · 12-07-2002, 08:02 PM

Is the plug I tested pressure reading ok for a stock 5.0?

lx5091 · 12-07-2002, 08:09 PM

what are the symtoms you're having? What is wrong with your car that made you suspect the timing chain was broken in the first place?

Agent_4573 · 12-07-2002, 09:33 PM

My compression is about the same as that. You should go back and do that to every cylinder. Make sure they are all about the same. i think mine are about 125-130 psi. I don't think it has anything to do with your timing chain now. If you still have those kinda compression results, the valves are opening exactly when there supposed to. I say we start from the top again. What exactly happened and what does it do now? or not do, like run, turnover, funny sounds? But definately go back and get the results on every cylinder, and make sure there all about the same. I did mine with 3 turns of the engine but people on here say do it with 5. I don't think it matters just as long as you do them all the same.

jpumpkinn · 12-07-2002, 11:31 PM

I thought it was the timing chain because I heard a very loud metal sound when the car stopped running. I would compare it to driving over a loose manhole cover. The car just stopped running and now it will not start again. It turns over just fine. Perhaps the sound I heard was a backfire? Any Ideas?

Agent_4573 · 12-08-2002, 11:21 AM

I would start a thread with the the title being pkrwud:need help and see if he can figure something out. I'm at a loss....

12-07-2002, 12:52 PM	#1
jpumpkinn Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: san antonio Texas usa Posts: 127	Timing-Poping paper out of plug 1? I have been researching different ways to check to see if my timing chain broke. Several sites post a method that involves puting a paper towel in to the spark plug hole of plug number1 and cranking the engine. The paper should then pop out. My question is simple. If the paper does not pop out, that would mean the chain is broken and is not turning the pistons. Right? Will this method of checking dependably tell me if my chain is broken? thanks __________________ Keep On Truckin!!

12-07-2002, 02:30 PM	#2
Agent_4573 Registered Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: New Jersey Posts: 375	no it doesn't mean the pistons aren't turning. The timing chain is what turns the camshaft which in turns opens and closes the valves. If you timing chain is broke the valves won't open and the paper towel/shop rag won't popout because you will have no compression. This method of the rag is basically a very low tech way to do a compression check and I would recomend you borrow a kit and actually do a compression check. On the other hand, why don't u just pop off a valve cover and see if the vavles are opening and closing? __________________ '89 LX 5.0, off-road h pipe, flowmaster muffs, underdrive pulleys, rebuilt WC T-5, King Cobra Clutch, 65mm throttle body, Explorer Upper/GT40 lower, Lakewood Rear Lift Bars. 76mm C&L Mass air w/ inlet pipe, Twisted wedge heads w/ stage 2 port,polish, MAC equal length shorties, Billet AFPR, 255LPH fuel pump, fresh low end w/ 10.5:1 compression. If anyone ever wants to go to Raceway Park in Englishtown New Jersey, give me a shout. RICER HATERS CLUB MEMBER 87! www.ricehatersclub.com

12-07-2002, 02:42 PM	#3
WADS56 gear banger Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: CHICAGO Posts: 1,144	If you think that your chain is broke that means something is very wrong with your motor. You should start taking it apart now because you will have to anyway. Like Agent said take off a valve cover and that will let you know real quick. I hope this is not true because you will be needing allot more then a chain if one cut loose when you were driving. Thats why I love gear drives. __________________ 79 Hatch: NA 347, Stage 2 Canfield Heads, Victor JR. Intake, Blueprinted Holley 750 HP, Solid Roller Cam, Shooting for 10's on motor 93 LX: Tremec, dual friction clutch, fms flywheel, Hedman shorties, O/R H-pipe Ricer hater's club member #49

12-07-2002, 02:50 PM	#4
jpumpkinn Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: san antonio Texas usa Posts: 127	If the chain is broken then what other things will I have to fix on my engine? __________________ Keep On Truckin!!

12-07-2002, 02:54 PM	#5
WADS56 gear banger Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: CHICAGO Posts: 1,144	You could be looking at bent valves, bent pushrods, and damaged pistons for starters. __________________ 79 Hatch: NA 347, Stage 2 Canfield Heads, Victor JR. Intake, Blueprinted Holley 750 HP, Solid Roller Cam, Shooting for 10's on motor 93 LX: Tremec, dual friction clutch, fms flywheel, Hedman shorties, O/R H-pipe Ricer hater's club member #49

12-07-2002, 05:22 PM	#8
Murdock Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 100	How about this? Take off your distributor cap and turn the motor over by hand. If the rotor in the distributor does not turn then yes the timing chain is not doing its job. Hope this helps Murdock __________________ LARZRACECARS larzracecars.com

12-07-2002, 07:59 PM	#9
jpumpkinn Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: san antonio Texas usa Posts: 127	I lifted off the valve cover and the valves are still moving when I crank it. I all so did the paper towel test and it poped out when I cranked it. When I hooked a pressure guage to spark plug 1 the psi read about 125 max and 115 min pressure. I don't think its the chain after all, unless the chain jumped. Is this a safe assumption? __________________ Keep On Truckin!!

12-07-2002, 08:02 PM	#10
jpumpkinn Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: san antonio Texas usa Posts: 127	Is the plug I tested pressure reading ok for a stock 5.0? __________________ Keep On Truckin!!

12-07-2002, 08:09 PM	#11
lx5091 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Fall River, MA Posts: 467	what are the symtoms you're having? What is wrong with your car that made you suspect the timing chain was broken in the first place? __________________ '02 Explorer XLT 4.0L --Nice Vehicle '97 Saturn SL1--Soon to be ditched for a Ford!

12-07-2002, 09:33 PM	#12
Agent_4573 Registered Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: New Jersey Posts: 375	My compression is about the same as that. You should go back and do that to every cylinder. Make sure they are all about the same. i think mine are about 125-130 psi. I don't think it has anything to do with your timing chain now. If you still have those kinda compression results, the valves are opening exactly when there supposed to. I say we start from the top again. What exactly happened and what does it do now? or not do, like run, turnover, funny sounds? But definately go back and get the results on every cylinder, and make sure there all about the same. I did mine with 3 turns of the engine but people on here say do it with 5. I don't think it matters just as long as you do them all the same. __________________ '89 LX 5.0, off-road h pipe, flowmaster muffs, underdrive pulleys, rebuilt WC T-5, King Cobra Clutch, 65mm throttle body, Explorer Upper/GT40 lower, Lakewood Rear Lift Bars. 76mm C&L Mass air w/ inlet pipe, Twisted wedge heads w/ stage 2 port,polish, MAC equal length shorties, Billet AFPR, 255LPH fuel pump, fresh low end w/ 10.5:1 compression. If anyone ever wants to go to Raceway Park in Englishtown New Jersey, give me a shout. RICER HATERS CLUB MEMBER 87! www.ricehatersclub.com

12-07-2002, 11:31 PM	#13
jpumpkinn Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: san antonio Texas usa Posts: 127	I thought it was the timing chain because I heard a very loud metal sound when the car stopped running. I would compare it to driving over a loose manhole cover. The car just stopped running and now it will not start again. It turns over just fine. Perhaps the sound I heard was a backfire? Any Ideas? __________________ Keep On Truckin!!

12-08-2002, 11:21 AM	#14
Agent_4573 Registered Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: New Jersey Posts: 375	I would start a thread with the the title being pkrwud:need help and see if he can figure something out. I'm at a loss.... __________________ '89 LX 5.0, off-road h pipe, flowmaster muffs, underdrive pulleys, rebuilt WC T-5, King Cobra Clutch, 65mm throttle body, Explorer Upper/GT40 lower, Lakewood Rear Lift Bars. 76mm C&L Mass air w/ inlet pipe, Twisted wedge heads w/ stage 2 port,polish, MAC equal length shorties, Billet AFPR, 255LPH fuel pump, fresh low end w/ 10.5:1 compression. If anyone ever wants to go to Raceway Park in Englishtown New Jersey, give me a shout. RICER HATERS CLUB MEMBER 87! www.ricehatersclub.com

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