The Pledge of Allegiance!! (God or No) (A little long...Sorry)
 

I have been watching to news about this man that wants the word God taken out of the Pledge of Allegiance. I am not a religous person!! But I do believe that this is a free country and the right of religion is a big part of the freedom. What are we supposed to say instead, "insert your creature here?" I grew up in a small town with very small town values, and we said the pledge of allegiance every morning, at every assembly, and played the anthem before every game. I don't think the pledge of allegiance should be changed so that someone can feel politically correct!! If you don't like it, don't say it or walk out of the room. After all it is a FREE COUNTRY!! Here is a little story a friend sent me.

From a speech made by Capt. John S. McCain, US, (Ret) who represents Arizona in the U.S. Senate:

As you may know, I spent five and one half years as a prisoner of war during the Vietnam War. In the early years of our imprisonment, the NVA kept us in solitary confinement or two or three to a cell. In 1971 the NVA moved us from these conditions of isolation into large rooms with as many as 30 to 40 men to a room. This was, as you can imagine, a wonderful change and was a direct result of the efforts of millions of Americans on behalf of a few hundred POWs 10,000 miles from home.

One of the men who moved into my room was a young man named Mike Christian. Mike came from a small town near Selma, Alabama. He didn't wear a pair of shoes until he was 13 years old. At 17, he enlisted in the US Navy. He later earned a commission by going to Officer Training School. Then he became a
Naval Flight Officer and was shot down and captured in 1967. Mike had a keen and deep appreciation of the opportunities this country and our military provide for people who want to work and want to succeed.

As part of the change in treatment, the Vietnamese allowed some prisoners to receive packages from home. In some of these packages were handkerchiefs, scarves and other items of clothing. Mike got himself a bamboo needle. Over a period of a couple of months, he created an American flag and sewed on the
inside of his shirt. Every afternoon, before we had a bowl of soup, we would hang Mike's shirt on the wall of the cell and say the Pledge of Allegiance. I know the Pledge of Allegiance may not seem the most important part of our day now, but I can assure you that in that stark cell it was indeed the most important and meaningful event.

One day the Vietnamese searched our cell, as they did periodically, and discovered Mike's shirt with the flag sewn inside, and removed it. That evening they returned, opened the door of the cell, and for the benefit of all of us, beat Mike Christian severely for the next couple of hours. Then, they opened the door of the cell and threw him in. We cleaned him up as well as we could.

The cell in which we lived had a concrete slab in the middle on which we slept. Four naked light bulbs hung in each corner of the room. As I said, we tried to clean up Mike as well as we could. After the excitement died down, I looked in the corner of the room, and sitting there beneath that dim light bulb with a piece of red cloth, another shirt and his bamboo needle, was my friend, Mike Christian. He was sitting there with his eyes almost
shut from the beating he had received, making another American flag.

He was not making the flag because it made Mike Christian feel better. He was making that flag because he knew how important it was to us to be able to Pledge our allegiance to our flag and country. So the next time you say the Pledge of Allegiance, you must never forget the sacrifice and courage that thousands of Americans have made to build our nation and promote freedom around the world. You must remember our duty, our honor, and our country.

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America
and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God,
indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

As tempting as it is, I'm not going to enter this debate.

Take care,
-Chris

One nation under God
 

It pains me to hear that people are fighting to remove 'under God' from our pledge of allegiance. I personally am a God fearing man, and while it is often forgotten, this country was founded by people seeking religious freedom. I know that religion is used (and misused) by people looking for power and answers, and that troubles me as well.

I applaud the man's commitment to his beliefs, as it takes a lot of faith to believe that we are all there is. However, part of his argument is that he wishes to not have others beliefs imposed on his children, and thereby impose his beiliefs on our country. This is an issue with which have trouble.

American government is majority rule with minority protection. There is no reason that anyone should be forced to say the phrase 'under God' if they chose to abstain, that is their right. It should be an option as the majority of people in our country aknowledge at least some higher power.

I will also close with a small antecdote:

The 1936 summer olympics were held in Berlin Germany. As the participating countries marched through the stadium for opening cermonies, they would dip their flags in reverence to Hitler as they passed his booth. The American team marched by, flag held high in defiance. When asked about the apparent act of defiance, the flag bearer responed, "This flag bows to no
earthly king."

Before the end of that decade, Europe was in full war with Germany, and inside 10 years the atrocities of the third reich were exposed. America was the only country whose flag flew high and proud during all the ceremonies and never honored one of the most infamous men in history.

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America
and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God , indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

I'm getting tired of politically correct people!!! GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Joe, four words: Take a bonghit, dude.

:)

Take care,
-Chris

The Pledge and God
 

First, a few facts:

The California ruling simply stated that the words 'Under God' cannot be included in the teacher-led Pledge of Allegiance recited by the children before class.

The man (an atheist) who brought the lawsuit already had his daughter opt out of saying the Pledge (her constitutional right) but the father objected that she was 'harmed' and her 'rights' were violated by simply having to hear the words 'Under God' spoken aloud in class by her classmates.

The looney left strike again, folks.

Unfortunately, past U.S. Supreme Court decisions have led to this one by the often-overturned Ninth District federal court, including the 1962 decision that outlawed public prayer in taxpayer supported schools. This new ruling was inevitable.

My opposition isn't so much to this specific ruling as it is to the absurd idea that we all must become atheists while standing on the grounds of a public school . This turns the 'Freedom of religion' clause of the constitution on it's head.

I thought the Supreme Court's ruling forbidding valedictorians from invoking God during commencement addresses, or football players saying prayers in the locker room before a game was wrong. These actions (the students exercising their First Amendment rights) did not breach the unholy firewall of Church and State that is always bandied about in these debates.

I don't buy the idea that this makes it a 'religious exercise' in any way, but as it refers to a Deity, albeit a generic one ('God' has many meanings for many people) the court stated that the words 'under God' (which endorse a religious belief in theism) can't be in the pledge as led by the teacher (an agent of 'the state'). Hmmmm. Why not?

Unfortunately, the Pledge of Allegiance is a teacher-led recitation and with the 'Under God' phrase included it becomes problematic because the leftists have used our constitution to thwart most Americans from an honest expression of patriotism and/or simple faith in the creator that our forefathers mentioned many times in the Bill of Rights - should they be standing in a classroom - and their very words possibly 'offend' one person.

It's PC gone crazy and at least it's now obvious to all.

It's a mess but at least it generated a nice display of public anger (and politician's grandstanding) over the left's steady push to make expression of faith near-illegal on the public square, as it were. Basically, this decision just goes too far for most Americans to swallow. About time.

The Pledge of Allegiance may be a 'state'-led exercise of patriotism in schools but who really objects to having their child honor their country? Not me.

The inclusion of the words "under God' simply reflect and acknowledge that this country was founded on Christian principles - and too bad if atheists don't like it, it's a fact.

Read the Federalist Papers or any bio of the founding Fathers like Hamilton, Jefferson or Franklin. Some were Deists and some were devout Christians but all were God fearing to some degree. They prayed during the debates over the constitution and most attended church. These are facts. America was a country founded on a religious base, although the founders were careful to not make religion any sort of legal necessity for citizenship and gave us freedom of religion - or no religion at all if we choose.

The Pledge is optional; no child has to recite it if they or a parent opt not to do so. For an atheist parent to object to their child simply hearing the words 'Under God' as a rights violation is absurd and shows how far out the looney leftists have brought us.

Unfortunately, when you have years of previous Supreme Court rulings that have banned 'God' from schools in one way or another, this kind of nit-picking outrage was bound to happen.

Now, I hope the Supreme Court will take the case, overturn the stupid ruling and clean up the mess it's made.

Meanwhile, we're all free to recite the Pledge of Allegiance, 'Under God' and all. I know that this Fourth of July, many will, proudly and loudly and I'll be one of them.

hmmmm......... maybe i should stay out of this one too. Chris, you get Joe and and we will get together and pull some tubes? :confused:

???

"pull some tubes" a.k.a. hitting the bong! maybe it is an east coast saying?!:confused:

I Pledge,

Two option for those who dont......

1st............ Dont pledge.

2nd........... Until you kick my azz, don't try to stop me.

Signed,

Disabled Veteran.

hehehehhe ahhhh much better now....

I changed the brakes on the olds today, so that was a good distraction to everyday mierta.
Pain in the *** that car is though. GM just has to use weird bolts on everything to make it tough on me.

Again Mr. 5.0 i agree with what you said. I dont see how the minority is now ruling over the majority just so everything can be "politically correct". I think it is a bunch of BS. As homer simpson would say... "you dont like it go to Russia" :D

Later,
Nick

sorry if you dont agree, it's your right & i paid the price for your free speech for 12 year's, that is such b.s. clintonism still live's today, now you know why i HATE, the u.s. govnmt, they rule over everything we do, or say, i'm sick of it. i will say i beleive in god if i want to, i earned that right, i say a prayer for everyone i know who is hurting, having problem's etc, so are they going to shoot me, so be it, the word's from mettallica mean a lot to me, -- dont tread on me, sorry for the vent, america- either land of the strong, or the land of crybaby's, i wish i were in spain, guess im booted of mw now, heheh.:rolleyes: :D

Ahhhhhhh. I see. That one is new to me, but it has been a few years since I did that anyway, so I'm sure there is a whole new vocabulary to be learned. Still, I'd much rather hang w/ you and Joe than add my two cents to this thread. Where you guys gonna be?

:)

Take care,
-Chris

No Marty, I totally understand what you are saying; I think it is the same thing we are all trying to say in our own way!!
We live in a Free Country and that is the way it should be Free. Stop wining about yourself and start helping people around you. We have gotten into a mindset in America that political correctness is OK. I personally believe that everyone has the right to say and do what he or she feel like as long as it does not mentally or physically hurt another living being. There is no perfect world out there and god knows the US is not perfect by any means. All I ever ask of my friends and family is be the best person that you can be, treat other as you would want to be treated, and don't judge, everyone has their reasons for being the way they are. I just opened another can of worms (Man I'm good at that!!), now I'm kicked out!! :rolleyes: :D

Shelby

shelby im not whining about my self, im just sick of these oh, im traumitized american's who think it's their right to take away everybody else's right, because they dont agree, that's it i dont care what anyone think's or has feeling's about but dont force it on me, that's all im saying, dont make it a law.:rolleyes: :)

Exactly!!! That is what I meant!! I didn't mean for you to take that I was calling you a winer!! No, No, No, I was talking about they politically correct people!! Not you, I agree with you whole heartedly!! 100% Right on Marty!!! :D :D

ok maybe i took it wrong, but your right, i mean everyone, well not everyone, think's this country owes them, no they owe this country, if daddy's little girl doesnt want to say god then she should just shut up, clintonism at it's best, sorry if i came off as a di-- but whining american's make me sick, if they dont like it here move to bosnia, hahahaha, cya :D :D

NO ONE I MEAN NO ONE WILL STOP ME FROM SAYING GOD. Whenever I so please, its time to stop all this S*** and live our lives the way we want to not the way some person wants us too. Everyone has there own opion, and thats the way it should be. :cool: Odie

As unpopular as this is gonna be I am gonna say it.

There is seperation of church and state for a reason. If you let church and state intermingle before you know it 10% will be garnished from your paycheck.

If you dont like government mandated laws. There are religious schools you can send your kids to. Religion and public schools isnt practical in america our country is to diverse.

There are plenty of private schools that offer religion as part of the package. Thats the beauty of america there is always a choice.

Later,

I agree with Dark_5.0. I was too much of a wuss to chime in before this for fear of being bashed. Taking out the under god isn't forcing athiest viewpoint on people, if they replced it with under no god it would be the athiest viewpoint. By taking out under god it is simply taking away any religous bias out schools.

I myself was raised without any religion, I wouldn't say I am an athiest, but I am not religious either. I was always curious why that phrase was in the pledge of alegiance when I was a kid. In many of my classed each student had to lead the pledge of allegiance each day and it would be very hard to say I can't say this because of what i believe. It's hard enough fitting in as a kid without having to go against almost all of your classmates beliefs and not say the pledge of allegiance because it says under god.

By not having under god in the pledge of allegiance, I don't see how it harms anyone. Everyone is free to recite it however they want outside of school. But I do see how having that phrase in the pledge of allegaince can harm some children who care who care not to recite the phrase under god.

Are you kidding? If this starts somekind of uprising, then I guess too bad. Take a look at your paycheck Dark! How much does the government take? Hmm, 7.65% for FICA, at least 15% for Federal income tax, add in whatever your state base tax rate is. Do you agree with the all the programs the governtment is running with your money? Shouldn't this be pointed out by your gripe?

I'm also wondering where the first amendment protection is in your opinion for people who wish to say God. I agree with seperation of church and state 100%. Goverment mandated religion has never been a good idea. Does this mean that we should force the removal of any implication of religion from school? I don't think so.

Let's move the discussion away from such a loaded subject. Assume the man was a vegitarian. Would an outcry against serving meat in school cause such a response? Or would people say that if you don't want to eat meat, don't. Too bad if you don't like the smell of hamburgers.:confused:

And yes, the American Cattle farmers do get some of the money already taken out of vegitarians paychecks. But I do not know of any vegan schools. Do vegitarians have a choice? Or are the beliefs of a meat eating majority forced upon them??

Just something to think about.

The Pledge, redux
 

That statement is ridiculous and I'll return to it in a moment but first I'll address the larger issue.

There is a 'separation 'of Church and State in order to allow religious freedom, not to make the mere mention of God's name illegal (unconstitutional).

Saying 'under God' during a recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance does no one any harm, even an atheist child who probably has little understanding of what 'God' really means, anyway.

Under the law, no child - atheist, Muslim or otherwise - is required to say the Pledge. conversely, they should have no right to force the rest of the class to refrain from saying it, as it's written, 'Under God' included.

This is simply PC gone insane, using 'separation of Church and State' as a cover when in fact, that vaunted 'Wall of Separation' atheists always shout about is firmly entrenched in American law and culture.

The reason for the huge outcry over this stupid ruling by a Federal Circuit Court was that average Americans have had enough of a tiny, vocal minority deciding what the vast majority may say and do in a school or public arena, including the mere mention of the name; 'God'. They are sick and tired of having the constitution used as a weapon to make simple, traditional, very American things such as the Pledge of Allegiance 'illegal' and mentioning the name 'God' as some sort of 'offense' that must be ceased.

Sorry, atheist or not, this is a religious country and our people, diverse as they may be, choose to have a God in our lives. We don't all believe the same and we don't all share the same God but to say that the mention of His name is now 'offensive' and 'unconstitutional' is going too far, even for normally ultra-tolerant Americans.

I predict that this ruling will be overturned by the Supreme Court, as it should be.

As for the comment 'If you let church and state intermingle before you know it 10% will be garnished from your paycheck...as I said, it's absurd on it's face.

Reminds me of the line used against John F. Kennedy when he ran for President in 1960; the 'religious right' claimed that if JFK were elected, the Pope would be 'running America''. Well, Kennedy was elected and we never saw a sign of the Pope in the Oval Office.

The charge was absurd as is the comment that if we let church and state intermingle we'll see 10% of of paychecks garnished.

This reflects a longstanding atheist canard that we're just a few steps away from an American theocracy. Please. That is palpable nonsense and those who spout this line are parroting what they've heard elsewhere, not really examining the empty charge.

Thats what the Establishment Clause in the constitution is all about. No establishment of state-sponsored religion. It's not about taking God out of the schoolroom Pledge of Allegiance or forbidding the mention of His name in public gatherings in Federal buildings. That's a crazy stretch of the clause and a very bad one.

Sensible, tolerant, reasonable people understand this simple fact. Some atheist activists apparently do not. Now, we have a court battle ahead and fortunately, the outcome is pretty apparent.

Using the name of God in a simple little Pledge recited in school is about a million miles away from setting up a state-sponsored 'religion'.

Your paycheck is still safe.

Well anyways I stand by what I said........Its just my opinion.....

First of all I am no aethiest!!!!!! I believe in god my friend.

My statement about 10% being garnished was SARCASM ..........

Government and church dont belong together period. The pilgrams fled England because of the church and government marriage. That is why they made damn sure to put the seperation of the church and state in the constitution.

If what I said isnt popular I really dont care. Its my opinion, I am not here to make friends.

I love god but despise church, to me a church is a business a revenue machine and nothing more. I know I am off topic but I just thought I would throw that in there just to let you know where I am coming from.

Later.

You go Mr 5 0! YEAH!!!!!!!!

Whatever Dark_5.0.:rolleyes:

Man that was deep,

Re: The Pledge, redux
 

I completely agree. Sad as it is, the world IS the way it is today thanks to...a WAY easier life. Not even a few hundred years ago, life was about ******* SURVIVAL. Now you have these mollycoddled ******* ******* whiners that have nothing better to do than take little Susie to ballet practice, Jimmy to baseball, and try to appease every single person on God's green Earth.

Personally, I don't care if other people believe in God or not. I've been antagonized and irritated by PC/leftist people enough that quite frankly, I don't really give a **** about what happens to 90% of the planet's population. They can fornicate, do drugs, believe in whatever/whoever they want, etc for all I'm concerned :) BUT...when you try to infringe on MY rights when I have to respect YOURS, that's when I get pissed off :mad:

Dark 5.0, if you bring up the foundation of this country as basis for your argument, you basically make your original statement null and void...descendants of those PILGRIMS are the men who originally inserted IN GOD WE TRUST into our society :rolleyes:

I don't necessarily trust churches either, but at least keep the theme constant.

Thanks
 

Dark

So; you resent religion and churches but are not an atheist and your 'paycheck' comments were mostly sarcasm?

Alrighty then. Thanks for the clarification.

I tried to keep it real simple so you could follow along better.

I still had a little trouble following :D ;)

Oh well.

I am very patriotic. hell, I am a direct descendant of one of the signers of the Declaration of Independence, but the only "wrong" that was ever committed with the pledge was adding "under God" to it in the 1950's. It was a political move backed up by paranoid times that existed back then. Both of my parents are ordained ministers, and I do believe in a higher power of some sort, but that is really irrelevant, too. The point that I agree with is that it never should have been added in the first place.

In this country, and in the Constitution, it is the law that church and state will not mix. I believe that if a person wants to add the words "under God" to the pledge when they say it, that's great! More power to them! That is their first amendment right. BUT, that should be the exception, not the rule. The written pledge should remain as it was before congress took it upon themselves to change 50 years ago, with the stipulation added that you can add to it if you like. That way, the Constitution isn't being violated, and those that wish to mention their God while reciting the pledge can and will, with no ill effects.

It's really very simple.

Take care,
-Chris

I completley agree. Congress was just asking for trouble by adding that.

If we have to pull God out of the pledge, we will also have to pull Him out of the Declaration of Independence. Doing so will remove the legitimacy of our rights as individuals and our right to create the United States. I guess we should just consider ourselves British. I guess that means that we now have a church that IS established by the state. Hmmm.. I think I like it the other way.

The seperation of church and state as it is being implemented is a liberal creation. Congress is only forbiddon from establishing a governmental church and mandating that we all must be members, but since our government was founded on the idea that God has created us with rights that were being violated, it stands to reason that the government is allowed to recognize the existence of God. Our nation motto is "In God we Trust", or national anthem invokes the name of God and that was in existence long before 1954. Congress added the "under God" because the people were already saying it and asked them to make it official.

The problem with political correctness is that some people feel that they somehow have a right not to be offended. You are free to believe in such notions as atheism, but you must also deal with what people think and say about you. If you are an atheist, you must also know that the rest of society believes you have a right to be an atheist because God gave you that right.

Dark_5.0, "sarcasm" is intended to hurt someone. Use "facetious" when you are just trying to be funny.

I appreciate it man.....as always your sharp as a marble!

[
Dark_5.0, "sarcasm" is intended to hurt someone. Use "facetious" when you are just trying to be funny. [/B][/QUOTE]

And so I learn.

Thanks,

I absolutely agree....Your a smart man:)

What is all this "politically correct" and "liberal" crap. Talk about crybabies! The plain and simple fact is that it should not have been altered in the first place, PERIOD. This is so simple, yet there are so many that just seem to want to complicate it for their own personal agenda. This is why I didn't want to participate in this thread in the first place, and why I shouldn't have.

Take care,
-Chris

God and the Pledge
 

Way too late now, Chris. You've made your statements, now we'll discuss them.

What jimberg posted was correct. The separation of church and state issue is a red herring in this instance. The Pledge of Allegiance is a totally voluntary action that any child may opt out of.

That Congress added 'Under God' in 1954 is a fact and was not a 'mistake' but reflected the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, where it was and is clearly stated that our rights come not from the State but from God, The Creator, Providence if you will.

America is a country founded 'under God'. Stating this in a voluntary pledge of Allegiance makes sense and is certainly in no way a 'religious' exercise or remotely an 'establishment of religion'. This should be clear, even to some liberal whacko Judge in San Francisco.

The liberal and PC references allude to the attempts of the ACLU and atheist groups to purge the word 'God' from every public utterance any place that a tax dollar contribued to. If there is any 'whining' going on here, it's from the tiny minority that demand things be the way they say it should be to better comfort their atheism and often very liberal, socialist concepts of America not shared by most citizens.

These folks mangle the Constitution, twisting simple words and phrases into meanings they never had and that the founders would be saddened to see and many people are sick and tired of it.

I don't give a rap about anyone's religion or lack of same but when they begin to infringe on my child's right to utter the passive words Under God in the Pledge of Allegiance in school, I get annoyed and so did a few hundred million Americans.

The complaint is bogus and the ruling will be overturned. Those who have problems with religion, churches and God can work that out another way but American society - already very secular - does not need to conform to their will simply because hearing - just hearing mind you - never mind saying - the word God 'offends' them.

Enough is enough.

It's that simple.

It may be simple in your eyes, but others may have different opinions that make it impossible to be "very simple". Not speaking about myself in particular, but you speak as if your opinion is the mandated truth, and not what it is...another opinion, just as mine, or Mr 5.0's, or Fireman's. I have been chewed out several times for the tone of my posts, and I guess I finally understand.

The 9th Circuit Court of Appeals called the pledge a prayer because it contains "under God". It's silly to assume that mentioning God is a prayer. A prayer is when you ask for something. The pledge is a pledge. It isn't even a pledge to God. It just makes a simple statement of fact, that our nation was created under the idea that "nature's God" entitled us to create it.

Re: God and the Pledge
 

/me... http://216.40.201.38/cwm/3dlil/lurk.gif

I still think it's overwhelmingly simple. Leave it the way it was. If your child, or EVERYBODIES child, wants to say Under God, or Under Ozzy for that matter, GO FOR IT! Just return the text to the way it was originally. I'm not saying this with an agnostic or athiest agenda, I'm saying this as a rationaly thinking individual. I never suggested altering anything from the way it was originally written, including the Declaration of Independence. I'm not saying that anyone is wrong for their beliefs. ALL I AM SAYING is that the pledge never should have been altered in the first place. So simple.

Take care,
-Chris

That's the original pledge, Chris. It's changed over time as the people demanded it. The pledge changed in 54 because the people wanted it to be changed, not because Congress had a whim to do it. Adding "under God" brings it more in line with all of our other national rituals.

Does chris beleive in god?, just wondering. may have nothing to do with this conversation

Pledge, God, simple
 

Chris:

I'll try again, as simply as I can put it.

The phrase 'Under God' states a fact: that the United States of America was founded 'Under God' as jimberg and I have attempted to point out but that you seem to be unable to recognize prefering to continually claim that 'it shouldn't be there' and calling that opinion 'simple'.

Call it an accomodation if you will but it the words are in there because they are factual. Those who object to hearing the word 'God' have no rational basis for their objection.

The lame attempt to call this a violation of the 'establishment clause' in our Constitution falls flat on examination. It clearly doesn't fly because saying the words 'Under God' do not constitute the 'establishment' of a national church in any way that any reasonable person could ascertain.

This lawsuit and the inane ruling by the liberal Ninth Circuit Federal Court fly in the face of reason and good judgement, as the national outcry over it proved.

It doesn't matter when the phrase 'Under God' was inserted as part of the Pledge, the fact is that it was put there by a Congress responding to the will of the people, as we do in a democracy.

It wasn't put there by the religious right, Jerry Falwell, Billy Graham, Pat Robertson or Republicans, it was put there by the will of the people of this country - and for good reason. To simply acknowledge the Creator mentioned so many times in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights as well as most of the Federalist Papers as the source of our rights.

You may dispute this or deny it as you wish or just keep stating that 'it shouldn't be there' and how 'simple' that is but it's just as simple to most everyone that 'Under God' is a viable statement that has a place in our Pledge of Allegiance. Those who object may legally refuse to recite it but to force everyone else to stop saying the Pledge by declaring it 'unconstitutional' is wrong and that foolish ruling will be eventually overturned by the Supreme Court.

That's about as simple as I can make it.

I suppose so. Not necessarily the same God you believe in, but yeah, I think there is a higher power.

Take care,
-Chris

bla bla bla
 

wow! this is a big issue at hand! if you say "god" it will effect some people! oh my! what will we do now? they are going to take "god" out? NOOOOOOOOOOOO! my life isnt complete without it!!! life wouldnt be the same! come on people! who gives a rats asz? really? is it really that important? why dont we worry about more more important things like curing cancer, AIDS and children that are dying in the hospitals waiting for a cure or a heart! this is pathetic! believe what you want to believe. say what you want to say, but dont make mountain out of a mowhill! i am not religious at all. i guess you can "catagorize" me as agnostic athiest. as you all have your rights and your opinions, why dont you save that energy for something i mentioned above.
there is people on this board who are sick or they have family or friends that who are in need. stop bickering. put it where it counts.
you people keep arguing over B.S. this thread is like a "Chevy vs. Ford" arguement. its the same everytime and nothing changes and it gets old.

Chris, it is that simple!

i lied. i said i wasnt going to get involved. im a liar:rolleyes: sue me! its the American way!:eek:

Re: bla bla bla
 

Let me get this straight:

You find the Pledge of Allegiance issue irrelevent but you post a long diatribe about it. Interesting.

You state how bored you are with the issue and ask if it's that important - when four pages of messages have already been posted and many thoughful comments made. Missed that, did you?

You compare the importance of the Plege issue with curing cancer and AIDS and throw in little kids in hospitals (you left out Bambi) as being more worthy of our time but you have a high post count on a Mustang website, indicating that you don't seem to spend much time on those more pressing issues you admonish others to be concerned about.

You compare the thread to a Chevy vs Ford thread but appear to miss the fact that this issue concerns our rights and freedoms, not our cars.

You tell the people who post to 'stop bickering' and then write a long post berating people as to how wasteful this thread is.

You call yourself an 'atheist agnostic' which is contradiction in terms. Check a dictionary.

You say we all have our rights and our opinions - then say that 'it gets old' when we express them.

You make little sense and offer no useful information with your comments but I wanted to respond to them as you seem to have missed the point here.

This forum is intended for open-ended discussion about issues that interest the members. You are free to contribute or not. If you decide to post a diatribe and criticize everyone who has taken the time and effort to reply to this thread then expect a critical rebuttal and don't cry about it or get all P.O'ed and whine.

No one here asked for your opinion, you freely offered it. O.K. That's cool. This is my opinion about your opinion.

Some advice: Skip or leave the thread if it annoys you.

It's simple.

here he goes again! can he ever be wrong? NOT MR FIVE OHHHHH!
 

Mr 5.0 has all the answers! just twist my words around a little why dont you? if you cant understand what i am saying rather than interpret the words on my screen for your own personal pleasure or simply by ASKING me what i meant, then dont go into your little rants of knowing everything because you post every second on this site.

yeah the pledge is more important than "little kids in hospitals"! how weak! i cant believe you even posted something that shallow!

when was the last time you stepped outside into the real world? there is more to life than just a computer screen.

for all you others that dont understand what i mean, PM me or simply post a reply asking me what i meant. dont go to extremes like MR 5.0 does.

really Randy its SIMPLE!

***** TIME OUT *****

James-

Cute GIF!

:)

Take care,
-Chris

***** O.K., TIME IN *****