No I am not an uneducated idiot. Let me tell you something about the jerk off republicans we have here in Missouri. At the state capitol last early this year when all the poloticians where in session one of these so called "good guy republicans " said to everyone there that he had no use for a woman in congress and did not want to be in the same room with a black man or any other minority, and they had no business being in politics. Yes I understand that every time a new president comes into office our economy goes down but if you look back when did the economy bounce right back? When a democrat was in office. I don't like Bush and I damn sure didn't like Gore. I do believe if that idiot Gore had become president we would probably be worse off. But I just don't see what Bush is doing for this country. He doesn't care about the disabled or the working man. He has cut medicaid benefits for the disabled. One woman died because she could no longer get medicine that medicaid no longer covered because Bush saw that acid reflux is not a major health concern. He cut the coverage for any type of medication for acid reflux disease. Yes acid reflux if left untreated can kill you.
I am not a die hard democrat, I don't believe in gun control or getting rid of older cars, but what I do believe in is fair wages and better benefits for the working man. The republicans have proven time and time again that they don't care about that. So the democrats get my vote.

Well, it seems that Midnight only commented in return. You called us "Republicans" undeducated idots for liking a man who did a hell of a job running Texas and who is a strong moral LEADER of our country.

As for the lack of things done for the working and middle class....seems to me that he's been kinda busy with other, more urgent concerns like the safety of our people.

Hell, what am I even replying for. I'm sure others can take up the argument much better than I. I didn't do all that hot in debate in high school, but I know what I believe, and I know what I like. Sorry you don't feel the same, but that's America.

--nathan

Facts vs hyperbole
 

Originally posted by nickj8685

Too late, you already have. Buckle up.

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but I am a Democrat and proud of it.

How nice for you.

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I am not unrepentant as Mr. 5.0 put it.

That was sarcasm.

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To tell you the truth I don't think he has done that much for our country. Our economy has gone staight to hell and unemployment is up drastically.

Wrong. The U.S. economy has grown 1 to 2 % since 9/11 which even Allen Greenspan said was a 'miracle'. Unemployment is up about 2% from when Bush was elected. Nothing 'drastic' about it considering the fallout from 9/11 and the stock market tumble of this year. America is doing quite well economically, just not as well as it could be. Blaming the President foir this is absurd. No president (of any party) can 'fix' the economy, except by lowering taxes, which Bush has attempted to do, with total opposition from the Democrats in congress.

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IMO if you are a minority, a woman, or a lower to middle class person and you are a Republican you are an uneducated idiot.

I love reasoned, intellectual arguments. Unfortunately, I see none here. You just insulted quite a few million people with that foolish statement. You have a lot to learn about debating civilly and rationally.

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This president of ours doesn't seem to care one bit about the nation's workforce. I'm a union member and the next thing that I and all other union members are concerned about is the fact that Bush wants to get rid of prevailing wages.

'Prevailing wages' keep costs construction unnecessarily high and do nothing but put money in the pockets of one small segment of the population. The order you refer to concerns bids on federal projects, not all construction projects. Big difference.

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Now that may not concern most of you but if you're career is in constuction then it should. For those of you who don't know the prevailing wage tis the wage set by union negotiations. And for those of you who don't think we need unions any more you just wait and see what happens to wages, benefits, and working hours. If you like the fact that the standard working week is 40 hours then thank the unions for that, because if the republicans had they're way we'd all be working 60 hours a week for $5 an hour. Sorry had to rant.

You are saying that President Bush is going to 'outlaw' unions, now? Nonsense on stilts! Union membership overall has been slipping over the years but they are not going to disappear. You're spouting AFL-CIO propaganda here, not making rational, factual statements.

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My mom is disabled and you don't even want me to start on what this joke of a president has done for the disabled community.

Sorry about your mom but again, you're just as wrong as you can be. President Bush has proposed the New Freedom Initiative which is an enhancement to the ADA. President Bush is far from a 'joke. Most Americans are proud to have him as our President. That he doesn't hand over whatever you believe you or your family deserve from taxpayer dollars is not relevant. The President is not Santa Claus, handing out goodies from the federal government grab bag and if that is your measure of an effective President, yes, George Bush may disappoint you. For most of us, he's doing an excellent job.

A noticable majority of Americans of all walks of life give the President high marks for his job performance. He's a leader and an honest man. You are free to sit there and call him names but the facts do not support your contentions.

I'm not getting involved...
 

but Jim, you definately have been missed. Your thoughts are very well thought out, and have reasoning to them. Don't get me wrong, I don't like President Bush, but your points are very valid. Take care, Keith

Facts vs hyperbole Part II
 

Originally posted by nickj8685

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No I am not an uneducated idiot.

Could have fooled me.

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Let me tell you something about the jerk off republicans we have here in Missouri.

Good start. Another reasoned response from someone who is 'not an uneducated idiot'.

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At the state capitol last early this year when all the poloticians where in session one of these so called "good guy republicans " said to everyone there that he had no use for a woman in congress and did not want to be in the same room with a black man or any other minority, and they had no business being in politics.

This sounds like a total fabrication. Source please. Even if this was actually said by a Missouri Republican, it doesn't mean all Republicans share that POV. Are you infering that President Bush holds this point of view? Considering the racial and gender makeup of his Cabinet, I doubt it. By the way, did you know that Democrat Sen. Robert Byrd of W. VA, was once a member of the KKK? Yes, he was; in the 1940's. On record. Does that now make all Democrats racists? Thank you.

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Yes I understand that every time a new president comes into office our economy goes down but if you look back when did the economy bounce right back? When a democrat was in office.

What! Sure you want to play this game? We had a mild recession in the early 1990's. Clinton was elected and the economy came back - which it was doing already. He took credit. Fine. The economy was faltering in mid-2000, on Clinton's watch, and since Bush's election it has continued to rise, against all odds. I guess Bush can now take credit. BYW: In 1980 the national economy was in the dumpster, big-time. Carter was president, you may recall. Reagan was elected in late 1980 and by 1983 the economy was booming and continued to do so for 10 more years. Don't try to state that Democrats improve the economy and Republicans do not because, again, the facts won't support that contention.

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I don't like Bush and I damn sure didn't like Gore. I do believe if that idiot Gore had become president we would probably be worse off. But I just don't see what Bush is doing for this country. He doesn't care about the disabled or the working man. He has cut medicaid benefits for the disabled. One woman died because she could no longer get medicine that medicaid no longer covered because Bush saw that acid reflux is not a major health concern. He cut the coverage for any type of medication for acid reflux disease. Yes acid reflux if left untreated can kill you.

You don't seem to like anybody. Why bother to vote?

Some cuts have been made in these federal 'entitlement' programs yet Democrats will scream about a huge federal budget deficit. You can't have it both ways and we are fighting a war on terror, as you must have noticed. I do not believe that working taxpayers should be legally required to pay for other people's medical care, including all medications. The concept that if you make it to 65 you suddenly are awarded all your medical care for free is absurd, but that's pretty much the case. Of course seniors and the truly disabled (drug addicts need not apply) deserve some medical help but the list of 'wants' never ends. Now, prescription drugs will soon be near-free. That's nice for grandma, but remember, we, the working taxpayers, pay for this. Nothing is really 'free'.

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I am not a die hard democrat, I don't believe in gun control or getting rid of older cars, but what I do believe in is fair wages and better benefits for the working man. The republicans have proven time and time again that they don't care about that. So the democrats get my vote.

In other words, you're a 'union man' and union men believe what you just stated - which is wrong - but never mind, so you vote Democrat every time...but you're 'not a die-hard Democrat'. Think about that statement. What you mean is that you're not a real liberal but you sure as hell are a die-hard Democrat and I bet you voted for Al Gore, too, if you voted at all. Quite a disconnect here but if you can't see it I'm not going to explain it to you any further. Meanwhile, I'll be sure to look for the union label.

I want to say a few things. But first let me get the ball rolling by saying a few things:

1. I'm a Canadian. Canada is a very socialistic country ESPECIALLY compared to the USA.
2. I've belonged the 4 Unions and had Union jobs.
3. I've belonged to 2 Non-Union employers in the same type of work as the union jobs
4. I've lived in the USA and have a decent understanding of US business (thanks Hammer ;) )

Now. You, like many miss guided people think that the "grass is greener on the other side". That's fine, you don't know better so one can get really mad at you, you don't know better right!

As mentioned above, I'm Canadian. Picture you Mr. Gore and his party and that's what a "right-wing" party is in Canada. Unions are VERY Strong The [u]average[/b] strike in Canada lasts over 3 weeks! And the average Union strikes once every 3 years.

Of all the jobs that I have worked in, the Union jobs were the worst. At best, they had EQUAL pay to the non-union jobs, and 95% had LESS benefits. But the biggest problem I see with unions is the working condition. Not the physical one, the mental one. In every Union job I've had there is a very "us vs. them" attitude which makes for poor morale and bad business. And no giving in to Union demands NEVER resolves the problem.

All these Social programs, medicare, unemployment insurance, Environmental programs, etc, etc. Cost money. BIG money. Do you know what percentage the average Canadian pays in taxes? Over 65%!!!! And unfortunately I'm not average, I pay more than that!

So for every $1 I earn I only get about $0.33 to spend on things I want....Think about it for a minute. A new mustang in Canada costs about $32,000 (Canadian $). I have to make approximately $90,000 of income NOT INCLUDING INTEREST to buy that car!!!! Now it's not an accuarate number because some of the taxes are already buried in the cost of the car.

Trust me, going left-wing, does not work. It kills the middle income worker, it kills people with drive, it cripples governments and destroys economys.

I could go one, but I don't want to bore everyone to death.

Good Job Jim and Cam. :D Makes me realize i need to take more Government/ Politics classes now that im in college ;)

Ok everybody has their own opinion on things. If I could get ahold of my BA from the union I would be able to tell you just exactly who it was that stated they didn't like minorities. And as far as prevailing wages driving up the cost of building you are wrong. The cost of building is about 60/40. 60% being cost of materials and 40% being labor. Oh and prevailing wages do not pertain just to federal jobs. I have worked on houses, schools, restaurants, shopping malls, you name it, all at prevailing wage.
Anyway you all like the president I don't. Big deal. Yeah I pretty much don't like politicians, they are all crooks.

Well most are anyways...:)

All i know is reguarless if it is republican or democratic, my taxes go up, prices go up(they seem to never go down!:confused: ) and politicians are sitting pretty. Funny, i dont remember when my paycheck went up do to a tax cut!

We should have the institution of "What you put in, is what you get out", but infortunatly, people in higher power dont seem to think so.

i am 27. at 67, i doubt i will be able to retire, but that isnt a president's fault, is it? they cant change the course for the future of this country, can they? sure they can. will they? most likely not.

so lets work hard, and make sure most of our hard earned money goes into making bombs, fighter planes, tanks and other warfare so we can be number 1! who care if the economy is schit, as long as we got the image we are the bad-asz country of the world, who would mess with the good ole' USA? right?

So lets keep making those bombs and other childish crap so we can make sure we can protect our counrty. we dont need to help people in our country, just make sure they are safe. let the people fend for themselves, the government has an image to uphold.

question for Jim:

So you think Regan was good?

p.s. is thier such a thing as deflation?

President Ronald Reagan 1981- 1989
 

Originally posted by srv1

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question for Jim: So you think Regan was good?

It's Reagan and yes, President Reagan was excellent. The economy boomed after his huge 1981 tax cut, the Soviet Union imploded on his watch and the country was on the right track. We had budget deficits, yes, just like now but only because Democrats that controlled Congress spent more than we were taking in, as usual. He wasn't perfect but he was an excellent President, as history will show.

Seems like old times. :)

How've you been, Jim?

Ahh, heck. I'll jump into the mix. Jim-Good to see you around.

Now the gloves come off....

The economy bounced back for a couple of reasons, none of which had to do with Clinton and his 'bridge'. The driving force behind our economy is Alan Greenspan. Sure, the head of the Federal Reserve board determines the prime rate and acceptable collateral for banks, but its more than that. The mood he is in can swing the stock market.

Remember the depression of 87? Oh wait, there wasn't one. Remember how the Dow dropped 500 points two days in a row? During that fall, it fell off by a bigger % than what caused the great depression. Why do people not really remember it? Greenspan to the rescue. The way he handled that period of time saved the country from panic.

He has done the same thing in the past year, not to mention the crashing of internet stocks. Sure, the market is down, but its still up 100% from 10 years ago. Long term investors are less rich than they were, but they are still up. I haven't seen anyone jumping out of windows recently on Wall Street. Have you?

The point of all this is to ask the question, "Who appoint Alan?" Yep, our actor President, Ronald Reagan. Next..

Then somebody isn't paying attention. The tax reform act that Bush signed to restructure the federal income tax scale reduced part of the 15% bracket to 10%. Your net savings as a single man was $300 the first year. It is difficult to notice, as you State Disability limits, State tax, or pay rate may have changed. If you don't believe me, consult a local tax professional (better yet CPA) or your company's payroll service. Moving on...

Yes. Deflation is a condition where the dollar increases in worth. Consider what you could buy with $20 five years ago v. today. It's less, right. Inflation. Deflation is simply a condition where you could buy more today with your $20. It may only exist in theory, but you don't want deflation. It would occur in real life after a period of severe economic contraction (depression) when the money runs out from the top down. Not just missing a raise but everyone loosing their jobs. When there is no money to put into the economy, the money that is there will be worth more.

Ok I'm done now.

Something to think about. The most prejudiced members of our history were Democrats. Don't believe me? Up until very recently no self-respect southern man would be a member of the "Pro-Lincoln" Party. Lincoln was a Republican.

Deuce, i was only kidding about the deflation!!!:rolleyes:

It's true though. Every bit of it.:D

So you'd rather live happy-on-the-log and let anyone who gets the idea in their head (and there are many out there) attack the United States and its interests?

Huh....interesting. I wonder what the economy would do with constant attacks on this country resulting from us failing to scare the **** out of people to keep them from attacking us?

And I'm not talking about a few extremist terrorists. I'm talking about all the little countries who hate the US. If we didn't have the most powerful military in the world, I guarantee that someone would have tried to pick a fight.

It takes more than happy thoughts to keep the peace.

--nathan

Politics 101
 

Originally posted by nickj8685

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Ok everybody has their own opinion on things. If I could get ahold of my BA from the union I would be able to tell you just exactly who it was that stated they didn't like minorities.

Yes, and some of us can back our opinions up with facts and logic. As for what Missouri Republican politician said what, it's hardly relevant. Democrats say stupid things all the time (Tom Daschle comes to mind) but they do not speak for the entire party membership or represent all Democrats. One local racist does not make a party.

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And as far as prevailing wages driving up the cost of building you are wrong. The cost of building is about 60/40. 60% being cost of materials and 40% being labor. Oh and prevailing wages do not pertain just to federal jobs. I have worked on houses, schools, restaurants, shopping malls, you name it, all at prevailing wage.

And if the labor costs rise to union-mandated levels that pushes up the overall cost of the building. So, if the labor cost is $100. per square foot to build a building and union wages rise by 10%, it now costs $110. in labor costs to build the same building, even if material prices stay the same. Prevailing wages drive up building costs.

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Anyway you all like the president I don't. Big deal.

It's not a 'big deal' but when you post messages that call the President 'a joke' and rant about what a bad job he's doing expect to be opposed with facts that undercut your statements. Emotional diatribes against an effective and justly popular President may play well in the slanted union magazines but not in the real world where Republicans were just handed control of the U.S. Senate by the voters, making the Republicans in control of the Presidency and both houses of congress. The general public don't see President Bush and his party thru a liberal, anti-Republican prism, as you apparently do. Consider this a learning experience.

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Yeah I pretty much don't like politicians, they are all crooks.

That's an over-simplification but there is some truth to it. Nevertheless, we are fortunate to have the power, as a free people, to vote them in or out of office and even impeach politicians and judges if necessary. I'll take democracy over any other form of government on earth, shifty politicians and all. That's why I never fail to vote in any election; local, state or national and I take a keen interest in politics. I appreciate our political freedom and make use of it. I suggest you do the same and explore other political points of view besides the pro-labor but anti-Republican view you now seem to hold so tightly. You may find that Democrat orthodoxy doesn't have all the answers and being pro-business is not automatically being anti-labor, despite what the union leaders tell you.

Re: Politics 101
 

I would have to agree. Any REAL business person knows the value of good quality labour and also understands the benefits of the people within it's organization. After all a company is comprized of people.

Too often the Union digs it's heals in and causes a confrontational attitude that makes business appear to be anti-labour, when infact it's not.

IMO, Unions cause farmore problems than they are worth. But this is getting off the original topic!

Bush is going a good job, especially compared to that ***** **** ******ing Prime Minister we have running our country :mad:

Re: Re: Politics 101
 

hon hon hon, im jean crétian...hon hon hon....

unions are screwing up canada...

Re: Re: Re: Politics 101
 

really huh, right now in BC both the unions and the business's have gotten to together and are working together to help put a end to this rediculous softwood timber war that is ruining towns across BC (its the 3 or 4th time this softwood arguement has happened and everytime the courts have ruled in our favor and people here are getting pissed off). the unions here have helped alot of families through some really tough times. here in my town the union is even working with the municipality and the business's to help create jobs and business oppertunities because that is the important thing now. now i'm neither pro-union or anti-union, but you gotta have both to keep the other in check, and if you don't like that view then too bad.