Amazing how things change!

[PKRWUD]

I was just watching the 1985 Busch 500 at Bristol on ESPN Classic, and they pointed out that the #77 car (didn't catch the name of the driver) was so low budget that he installed a set of wiper blades and working lights, and drove his car to the track! That just blows my mind. Not only could he not afford a back-up car on the transporter, he couldn't afford a transporter! Amazing.

Take care,
-Chris

[Crazy Horse GT]

hey chris that was when nascar was worth watching -run what you brung ,not all the bs nascar rules & one car make crying that the other has an advantage like, a 10foot rear spoiler cough, gm ,cough vs a 2 foot rear spoiler, cough ford ,cough its a big money game now ,it just aint the same,there aint no more pearson's, allison's etc ,you know what i mean see ya oh yeah harry gant rules,next to bobby allison. bye man

[Unit 5302]

NASCAR is a joke. I don't watch it. It's too boring and lame now. Yeah... I really want to see an engine that hasn't been made in 10 years run around the track in a car that bares no resemblance to the production car, running a carb. What is there in NASCAR that actually drives everyday car performance anymore? Nothing.

[PKRWUD]

Oh come on, Unit, it's not that bad. There's alot of good info to be gained from NASCAR. Admittedly, the fact that they don't run fuel injection does seem odd for a race series that is supposed to represent current stock cars, but for the speed enthusiast, it's pretty cool. Once they determine a method of making fuel injection equal among all makes and models, it will be used. I would think you would be totally into it, considering your love for the extinct 5.0. NASCAR Winston Cup has become the most regulated series in all of NASCAR, and the whining that goes on between the different teams gets old, but it's still exciting racing.

Take care,
-Chris

[Mr 5 0]

Unit5302

I have to agree with everything you stated.

NASCAR has become like pro wrestling; a show.

Yes, I still admire the drivers that risk their lives and must possess excellent skills to get a race car around the track at 150 + mph but the connection to the regular racing fan that roots for 'his' car to win is long gone from NASCAR.

The big, big bucks, endorsements, fake cars that are hand-made and don't even look like anything on the road, engines that are, as you said, out of date and the general rules hassles that never end all combine to make NASCAR more like F1 racing which is exactly the opposite of what it started out to be - and was - for many years. Oval track racing in something approaching stock cars that folks could relate to and get behind.

The very first 'NASCAR' races around 1950-51 actually were run with near-stock Ford V-8's, Hudson 6's and Oldsmobile V-8's (the 'hot' cars of the early fifties).

Of course things change (like safety regulations) but right now, NASCAR is about as far away from it's origins as it can get. A bunch of talented drivers getting huge money to drive wildly expensive race cars and pretend it has something to do with everyday automotive reality.

At least the drags don't pretend the six and seven-second cars are anything but expensive race cars, custom built for a specific purpose (quarter-mile et/speed). You can still go to the drags and watch the 10, 11 and 12-second cars and know that your car could run those times too with some hard work, some cash and lots of planning.
Big difference from NASCAR.

Hey, if folks are into NASCAR, that's cool. I just can't relate to it anymore. I would rather watch the local guys race modifieds at the local track, having a ball doing it and giving spectators something to relate to.

What was the old car-makers line about NASCAR? "Win on Sunday, sell on Monday". Yeah, right.
Try buying anything you see running in NASCAR.
That's the difference, to me. If the spectator can't relate to the cars, I don't see the point.
Maybe some folks can get excited about rooting just for a driver, but I relate to what he's driving and a NASCAR Ford or Chevy isn't anything I can care about.

I'll take drag racing, thanks all the same.

[Crazy Horse GT]

chris got my tickets for next year's brickyard, who are you pulling for beside's bill e of course jeff burton is going to win hehe, if i can i will try to pick something up for you, i hope it wont be as hot as this year, see ya,oh yeah if jeff b dont win im pulling for tony stewart i like his attitude

[Unit 5302]

Yes, I love the 302. It cannot be run in NASCAR cause it would kill the 350,351, and 360 on the high speed ovals like nothing. Make no mistake about me loving the 4.6L DOHC engine, or the 5.4L DOHC. You do know the Navagator's 5.4L DOHC engine makes more torque and hp than the 5.8L 1995 Cobra R.

300hp@5000rpm
355lb/ft@2750rpm

Who cares if the damn cars run equal?? I don't want them to run equal!! It's stupid. The best car out on that track should be winning. It's supposed to drive innovation. Ford would KILL everything out there on the track with their DOHC 5.4L. They could put it into a Crown Vic and mop people up. Instead NASCAR forces Ford to run a car with an engine they haven't made in 10 years, with a car that was front wheel drive, a fuel delivery system that hasn't been used in over 10 years that has been uncommon for 15 years.

I've heard the cost of racing arguement time and time again. The little guy wouldn't be able to compete. Bullshit. The old timers who know jack about anything without a carb and a pushrod V-8 wouldn't be able to compete. It would no longer be a stranglehold on NASCAR by all the big names. Allowing new engines into the sport would stimulate competition and result in increased performance and quality in the engines that are actually being used today.

NASCAR was a part of who I am today btw. I was named after Cale Yarbrough. I remember watching and cheering on the number 28 Hardee's car of my dad's favorite driver when I was growing up. I watched him switch back and forth run different cars and engines as I sat with my dad drinking a bottle of Pepsi on Sunday's. I grew up on NASCAR, but I began to lose taste with it when the Lumina became Chevrolet's car. It was all downhill from there.

Kell (My mom didn't like the spelling Cale)

[PKRWUD]

I hear what you're saying. It's true that the "stock car" aspect of it is gone, but it's still alot of fun, IMHO. All things being equal is a direct result of the different teams whining when another manufacturer appeared to have an advantage. The plan is to create good racing by having the cars fairly equal. The engine restrictions were fairly liberal, basically stating that it had to be a carbureted pushrod engine of no more than 360 cubic inches. Also, the block had to be a part that was available at you local dealership. These rules still hold true, but restrictions on some parts have been made. For example, the cfm limit on the carbs is 830cfm. The ones who got screwed, in my opinion, were the teams that went with Dodge this year. When Dodge decided to get back into NASCAR, the designed a new engine that would be exclusively used in NASCAR, although it could be purchased by anyone at their local Dodge dealer. It was a 360ci hemi, and fell within the rules as they then existed, but as soon as the Chevy and Ford teams found out, they protested, and NASCAR denied the engines use.

Perhaps they should change the name and omit the stock car reference, but other than that, it's great racing. I also love 1/4 mile racing, but I've found the knowledge I gained working for Bill alot more practical for everyday drivers than anything I learned in 1/4 mile racing. 1/4 milers are designed to run 1/4 mile, period. No turns, no downshifting, no concerns other than 1320 feet.

As far as Jim's remarks implying that those that watch NASCAR being under the impression that they are the same cars you could go buy at the dealership, I think that's silly as well. I'd say for every NASCAR fan who thinks they could go buy a Taurus just like Dale Jarrett drives, is a NHRA fan who thinks they could go buy a Mustang just like John Force drives. Not too many.

Take care,
-Chris

[Mr 5 0]

PKRWUD:

I think you missed my point.

The fact that NASCAR vehicles are so far removed from anything being made or driven today is why I, and others, don't relate to them, not because we think they have anything to do with 'real' cars available to the public.
That was the point of my post.

I have nothing against NASCAR, I just don't have much interest in it anymore. I'm sure they'll survive without me.

[PKRWUD]

Point taken.

Take care,
-Chris

[TJR]

Winston Cup cars are pretty neat to watch if you are there in person. I really like the noise from the cars, as well as the large crowds. In my opinion, tv does not do the cars any justice, and actually makes it boring to watch. If I try to watch a Nascar race at home, I'll be sound asleep after 20 laps (60 laps if it's at Bristol). Oh well, to each his own. I guess I'll stick to attending the Ford events at the local dragstrips. Besides....If you can turn, you're not going fast enough.

[Fox Body]

Hmmm. I don't watch NASCAR, but I did learn something from reading this thread. (interesting)

[Crazy Horse GT]

mr5.0 & unit , your right nascar is not what it used to be,they used to have real bumpers on the cars , but if you go to the track it's pretty cool to hear the thunder & watch the battle's other than that ,like i said it has become a big money sport , like basketball, baseball ,football-etc btw go raider's & red wing's hehe my pick raider's win the super bowl!

[PKRWUD]

I don't remember the score I predicted, but back in August I said the Packers would beat the Raiders in the Super Bowl, and I still stand by it.

As far as racing, I'm pretty easy. I love any racing that involves modifying a V8. I've learned so much working in 1/4 mile, NASCAR and Sprints, it's killer! Our Sprint has mechanical fuel injection, with eight 1 7/8" throttle plates!! It's crazy, but it's killer. I guess I'm just a performance junkie.

Take care,
-Chris

[Crazy Horse GT]

chris final score of the super bowl -da raiders 44-packers 7hehe
what do you want from indy?see ya

[Mach 1]

Im not a NASCAR fan personally, and never have been, but I now live in the South, and I know a lot of diehard Nascar fans.

One thing I have noticed, and I think Mr. 5.0 pointed out, is that the fans pick a driver or 2 and follow and cheer for him. The make of the car seems to have little interest to the fan anymore, if it ever did, like I said, Im not familiar with the series.

[Crazy Horse GT]

mach1 it makes a difference to me what they drive, except in the old days i pull for ford drivers & next dodge but there are a few gm drivers i like ,tony stewart ,little e & the labointe boys i dont know i remember when nascar wasnt even shown on tv you had to listen to it on a m radio,it has become a big money thing ,just go to a race & you will drop 2 or 300.00 bucks fast.

[PKRWUD]

That is true. NASCAR fans are very loyal to their favorite drivers. For the majority of the fans, it's about the driver first, and the manufacturer second. I have a couple friends who don't have a favorite driver, and they cheer for the manufacturer (one Ford and the other Chevy), but most have a favorite driver, and they stick with them through thick and thin. As you all know, I was lucky enough to work for Bill Elliott in 1998. He was one of the nicest people I have ever met, and I have been a die hard fan ever since. I have a fairly large collection of Bill Elliott "stuff", including all of the body pieces we had to cut off the car in order to get it back on the transporter after he went head on into the wall at over 190 mph at the California 500 in '98. Meaningless to some, priceless to me.

Take care,
-Chris

Marty-
If you insist, a XXL event shirt would be great!

[Crazy Horse GT]

ok chris you get a beer coozie since yuo think da raiders will lose the big one hehe, i'll see what i can do it all depeneds on my job sit. it dont look good so far,hell i thought if i was a lead foreman in a local govnt job it would be ok ,dont know now well it's along way till aug. anyway,btw i really could send you a b'yard 400 coozie now some drunk left it by my seat,brand new e-me if you want it see ya buddy.-----da raiders 72 -- da packers 7-- final score

[mustangdani55]

i love nascar, busch series and any other racing.. but i really love nascar..I have to say that Tony Stewart is my fav. but i go watch him drive his late model and it just seems to put him in a class with "regular people" he does have an attitude thing goin on..but what do you expect when you ae as good as he is. Awesome Bill from Dawsonville is in my top 3 list. won't say who else is on the list..too much $h** from you guys. when you get to indy for the Brickyard..holler at me and maybe we can hook up and i'll show ya the stangs around here..