Question about liability and accidents..

Godslayer · 03-14-2001, 04:46 PM

Hey guys. I've been thinking lately and I've decided that I am SO sick of avoiding accidents because morons can't read signs, don't care about their vehicle and/or don't know how to drive. Seriously I have been delivering pizzas for almost 4 years and have been driving since I was 16 (I'm 23 now), and have had no accidents. But honestly I am tired of avoiding accidents that other people would have caused. At least once a night I have someone run a stop sign, or pull out in front of me at the last minute, or do something else just as dumb; forcing me to take evasive action like locking up my brakes, swerving, etc. Since I've been delivering pizzas I must have avoided, honestly something like 60 accidents. My question concerns liability and is connected to Quantum's post in SRC. Suppose someone did something dumb and instead of trying to avoid them I just hit them and it was completely obvious that they caused the accident. If you try to avoid someone doing something like pulling out in front of you and you hit the curb or something and damage your car it is not their fault right? So you want to avoid this even though it is the right thing to do. Because you'll just get screwed. The best thing is to actually hit them. So suppose I just hit them and it's totally their fault, am I liable at ALL? Or are they going to have to pay to fix my car? I've never been in an accident and only have basic liabilty so I have no idea how insurance works. I'm just tired of all the tools, maybe if I hit them and frag their car they will be off the road for a little while and not kill anyone with their stupidity. Everytime I avoid one I feel like I am just keeping a pathogen in the driving pool.

So anyone.. any insight would be cool. And BTW this is not my Stang so I could care less about it. Help me eliminate dumbasses from the streets of Albany

------------------
87 GT
Full exhaust, K&N, KB Subs, BBK STB, homeade dumps...

87 Taurus
New York
Winters Bite!

Unit 5302 · 03-14-2001, 05:37 PM

There are a couple different types of insurance states go by.

Pure fault, and percentage fault(not sure on that name)?

Pure fault is like MN, if you are 51% at fault, the accident is YOUR fault. You get nothing for damage done to your car unless you have full coverage. The other company foots none of the bill and your company foots the whole bill to repair the other drivers damages. Injuries are immediately covered under "no fault" funds. Meaning all your injuries and the other drivers injuries are guaranteed to be taken care of by the state. Once it's determined who was at fault that persons insurance picks up the tab. That is, unless the insurance carriers cannot agree and decide to settle.

Percentage fault I believe is when the companies pay based on the amount their driver is at fault. Say you are 51% at fault and the other nut is 49% at fault, your company would pay for 51% of his damages. At least I think I remember that being how it is. It's not the most popular of the two.

It is extremely unlikely that an accident will be assigned as 100% fault to one driver. Usually they go 80/20 60/40 or something of that nature. The less you do to avoid the accident the more fault will be assigned to you. In QuantumMotorSport's case, there is a very real possability that if he would have chosen to ram the car without attempting to avoid the accident he would have been assigned a significant portion of the accident. If the idiot was given a ticket for running the stop sign or failure to yield the results would have surely been in his favor, but avoiding the insurance company is the best thing to do. If the other driver would not have been ticketed and the insurance companies were to decide Quantum could have avoided making contact, he most likely would have been assigned fault. I carry a camera in my car a lot of the time. Quantum's repair bill was like $15, for that I'd be glad to avoid the insurance BS. By the way, you can count on the other party lying their *** off.

If you cannot avoid an accident ie swerving would surely make contact with another object, just lock up the brakes and pray! DO NOT cause another accident if you can possibly avoid it. If the ******* you were going to hit gets away, you are screwed for hitting something else.

By the way, never cause an accident because of an animal. You will be at fault. Just smash the crap outta whatever is in front of you unless you can avoid it without getting into another accident. The only thing you can swerve to avoid as far as living beings is a human.

Godslayer · 03-14-2001, 05:45 PM

I think we have No-fault in NY. Anyone?

Anyway, so if some tool pulls out in front of me all i can do is lock up the brakes and if I hit him, I hit him. Of course I would never cause another accident intentionally hence why I want to start hitting morons instead of trying to swerve around them or other wise avoid them, making a potential for another accident. It's mighty shady

------------------
87 GT
Full exhaust, K&N, KB Subs, BBK STB, homeade dumps...

87 Taurus
New York
Winters Bite!

Mustangbelle306 · 03-14-2001, 10:43 PM

NO don't do it!!! I know in MD and VA you can be found at fault for not yielding the right of way even when YOU have it. I guess this law is meant to prevent people from rigging accidents...but your point about hitting your car on something bc you were avoiding someone at fault hmmmm...I dunno then! I'd like to see people's reponses to this one

------------------
Elisha (Mustang Chick Extraordinaire)
1994 GT/Saleen: Cartech intake,4.10s, full exhaust, pulleys, Compucar nitrous kit 125 shot
Sold the 1986 LX sedan

http://www.geocities.com/mustangbelle_306
AOL name: GT306Chick

Godslayer · 03-15-2001, 10:37 AM

Definitely an interesting one!

I'm not saying I'd go out of my way to hit someone, just make less of an effort to avoid someone else's stupidity. I would never cause an accident intentionally, unlike some of the idiots I run into everyday.

Naturally the accident would involve someone who didn't observe traffic laws/signs and I hit them because I "couldn't stop" or something of that nature. With plenty of witnesses to back me up.

------------------
87 GT
Full exhaust, K&N, KB Subs, BBK STB, homeade dumps...

87 Taurus
New York
Winters Bite!

Maroon 5.0 LX · 03-15-2001, 12:21 PM

First off, does your insurance company know you're delivering with your vehicle? If not, better get hold of them today and let them know.

You say you only have minimum liability insurance. Before you plan to T-Bone someone, you better get the highest liability you can buy! If you're in an accident, your fault or not, 99 chances out of 100 YOU will be sued. Why? You represent a commercial establishment (the pizza store). Both of you are prime prospects for big money in the other person's eye. While you're at it, better get a $15-$20 million dollar umbrella policy too.

Sure there are a lot of crazy drivers out there. But if you hit someone, that won't stop all the others. It could cost serious injury to others, and yourself. What if you wind up in the hospital for several weeks? No income, no car, and, probably massive attorney's fees just for your own self gratification?

It's this kind of thinking and actions that raise allready outrageous insurance premiums for all of us.

Just sit back, listen to some tunes, bite your lip and savour the smell of the pizza!

------------------
89LX5.0
Original Owner

Mr 5 0 · 03-15-2001, 09:02 PM

As a former insurance agent (wife was a claims supervisor in a large insurance company, too) I can tell you that your thoughts about failing to take evasive action to avoid an accident is a very foolish idea and you should forget it, quickly...please!
Aside from the obvious physical danger that poses to you and the other driver (assume he/she is an idiot and is doing something dumb and/or illegal) your failure to swerve or whatever will be noted by both the police investigating the accident and the insurance adjusters, and these guys know what to look for, trust me. No matter the state rule on liabilty (all-or-nothing or percentage assignment) if you can be shown to have not braked hard, swerved or whatever the situation called for to avoid the accident, you'll be in some legal trouble, and as noted, the other guy will lie his head off, guaranteed. Remember, the insurance company (his) doesn't want to pay a dime if they can help it and anything they can find to make it your fault, they will.

Once, I a women pulled out of an alley about 10 feet in front of me, totally blocking both lanes of a main street as well as the sidewalk and I was so close to her that I was forced to hit her car, but I aimed for her front tire/wheelwell, and avoided hitting her where she was sitting and could have been hurt. It was a minor accident (I lost a bumper on the Plymouth Horizon beater I was driving but no sheet metal damage), she received a ticket and her insurance company paid for my damages, no questions asked. Still, she attempted to sue me. My insurance company lawyer and I had a good laugh over that; the fact that she received a ticket and her insurance company paid all my damages meant that her company accepted all liability for the accident and the ticket simply reaffirmed her responsibility.
I never heard anything from her again, of course. Had I not tried to avoid hurting her in an unavoidable collision (the cop noted this on his report), I could have possibly been found partially liable, and the 'case' might have been actionable (she could have sued me). As it played out, I was free of any liability, which is how you want to be in any accident, believe me.

As for insurance, I carry and always used to recommend 100/300 ($100,000 per person, $300,000 per accident) plus $20,000. medical coverage. This is mininum in todays economy, where million-dollar lawsuits are common.
A $20,000 per-person limit is a joke and dangerous to your financial health should you ever become involved in a serious accident where you are found at fault (going one mile over the limit when you hit someone can be enough to sink you, legally). Something to consider.

As for using your vehicle in your pizza delivery job; You need to check the 'Exclusions' portion of your insurance policy. This will tell you if the policy will cover you if you have an accident while using it for commercial reasons (it may). If not, the Pizza company should be the primary insurer, but you need to find that out. If you don't understand your policy - especially the 'exclusions' portion - have your agent (if you have one) sit down and explain them to you. Insurance is a bore but suddenly becomes real important when you have an accident, so know where you stand before you need it...and never give up avoiding accidents; you'll live longer.

Rev · 03-15-2001, 09:34 PM

Often times, in Texas at least, the legal question comes down to "who had the last chance to avoid the accident?" Even if someone runs a stop sign or red light, you still can't just T-Bone them if it's avoidable. Another legal question is "did he keep a proper lookout?". Even if someone else ran the stop sign or light, if you weren't paying attention, you could still be at least partly liable. Most of this is just rephrasing what others have already said. Just keep driving defensively and avoid those accidents. Good luck avoiding the loonies.

Rev

------------------
'66 Coupe, 306, 300 HP, C-4, 13.97 e.t., 100.3 mph
1/4 mi.

03-14-2001, 04:46 PM	#1
Godslayer Registered Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Largo, FL USA Posts: 274	Question about liability and accidents.. Hey guys. I've been thinking lately and I've decided that I am SO sick of avoiding accidents because morons can't read signs, don't care about their vehicle and/or don't know how to drive. Seriously I have been delivering pizzas for almost 4 years and have been driving since I was 16 (I'm 23 now), and have had no accidents. But honestly I am tired of avoiding accidents that other people would have caused. At least once a night I have someone run a stop sign, or pull out in front of me at the last minute, or do something else just as dumb; forcing me to take evasive action like locking up my brakes, swerving, etc. Since I've been delivering pizzas I must have avoided, honestly something like 60 accidents. My question concerns liability and is connected to Quantum's post in SRC. Suppose someone did something dumb and instead of trying to avoid them I just hit them and it was completely obvious that they caused the accident. If you try to avoid someone doing something like pulling out in front of you and you hit the curb or something and damage your car it is not their fault right? So you want to avoid this even though it is the right thing to do. Because you'll just get screwed. The best thing is to actually hit them. So suppose I just hit them and it's totally their fault, am I liable at ALL? Or are they going to have to pay to fix my car? I've never been in an accident and only have basic liabilty so I have no idea how insurance works. I'm just tired of all the tools, maybe if I hit them and frag their car they will be off the road for a little while and not kill anyone with their stupidity. Everytime I avoid one I feel like I am just keeping a pathogen in the driving pool. So anyone.. any insight would be cool. And BTW this is not my Stang so I could care less about it. Help me eliminate dumbasses from the streets of Albany ------------------ 87 GT Full exhaust, K&N, KB Subs, BBK STB, homeade dumps... 87 Taurus New York Winters Bite!

03-14-2001, 05:37 PM	#2
Unit 5302 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 5,246	There are a couple different types of insurance states go by. Pure fault, and percentage fault(not sure on that name)? Pure fault is like MN, if you are 51% at fault, the accident is YOUR fault. You get nothing for damage done to your car unless you have full coverage. The other company foots none of the bill and your company foots the whole bill to repair the other drivers damages. Injuries are immediately covered under "no fault" funds. Meaning all your injuries and the other drivers injuries are guaranteed to be taken care of by the state. Once it's determined who was at fault that persons insurance picks up the tab. That is, unless the insurance carriers cannot agree and decide to settle. Percentage fault I believe is when the companies pay based on the amount their driver is at fault. Say you are 51% at fault and the other nut is 49% at fault, your company would pay for 51% of his damages. At least I think I remember that being how it is. It's not the most popular of the two. It is extremely unlikely that an accident will be assigned as 100% fault to one driver. Usually they go 80/20 60/40 or something of that nature. The less you do to avoid the accident the more fault will be assigned to you. In QuantumMotorSport's case, there is a very real possability that if he would have chosen to ram the car without attempting to avoid the accident he would have been assigned a significant portion of the accident. If the idiot was given a ticket for running the stop sign or failure to yield the results would have surely been in his favor, but avoiding the insurance company is the best thing to do. If the other driver would not have been ticketed and the insurance companies were to decide Quantum could have avoided making contact, he most likely would have been assigned fault. I carry a camera in my car a lot of the time. Quantum's repair bill was like $15, for that I'd be glad to avoid the insurance BS. By the way, you can count on the other party lying their * off. If you cannot avoid an accident ie swerving would surely make contact with another object, just lock up the brakes and pray! DO NOT cause another accident if you can possibly avoid it. If the ***** you were going to hit gets away, you are screwed for hitting something else. By the way, never cause an accident because of an animal. You will be at fault. Just smash the crap outta whatever is in front of you unless you can avoid it without getting into another accident. The only thing you can swerve to avoid as far as living beings is a human.

03-14-2001, 05:45 PM	#3
Godslayer Registered Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Largo, FL USA Posts: 274	I think we have No-fault in NY. Anyone? Anyway, so if some tool pulls out in front of me all i can do is lock up the brakes and if I hit him, I hit him. Of course I would never cause another accident intentionally hence why I want to start hitting morons instead of trying to swerve around them or other wise avoid them, making a potential for another accident. It's mighty shady ------------------ 87 GT Full exhaust, K&N, KB Subs, BBK STB, homeade dumps... 87 Taurus New York Winters Bite!

03-14-2001, 10:43 PM	#4
Mustangbelle306 Yay for Chickys Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 1,532	NO don't do it!!! I know in MD and VA you can be found at fault for not yielding the right of way even when YOU have it. I guess this law is meant to prevent people from rigging accidents...but your point about hitting your car on something bc you were avoiding someone at fault hmmmm...I dunno then! I'd like to see people's reponses to this one ------------------ Elisha (Mustang Chick Extraordinaire) 1994 GT/Saleen: Cartech intake,4.10s, full exhaust, pulleys, Compucar nitrous kit 125 shot Sold the 1986 LX sedan http://www.geocities.com/mustangbelle_306 AOL name: GT306Chick

03-15-2001, 10:37 AM	#5
Godslayer Registered Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Largo, FL USA Posts: 274	Definitely an interesting one! I'm not saying I'd go out of my way to hit someone, just make less of an effort to avoid someone else's stupidity. I would never cause an accident intentionally, unlike some of the idiots I run into everyday. Naturally the accident would involve someone who didn't observe traffic laws/signs and I hit them because I "couldn't stop" or something of that nature. With plenty of witnesses to back me up. ------------------ 87 GT Full exhaust, K&N, KB Subs, BBK STB, homeade dumps... 87 Taurus New York Winters Bite!

03-15-2001, 12:21 PM	#6
Maroon 5.0 LX Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Southern Maryland Posts: 471	First off, does your insurance company know you're delivering with your vehicle? If not, better get hold of them today and let them know. You say you only have minimum liability insurance. Before you plan to T-Bone someone, you better get the highest liability you can buy! If you're in an accident, your fault or not, 99 chances out of 100 YOU will be sued. Why? You represent a commercial establishment (the pizza store). Both of you are prime prospects for big money in the other person's eye. While you're at it, better get a $15-$20 million dollar umbrella policy too. Sure there are a lot of crazy drivers out there. But if you hit someone, that won't stop all the others. It could cost serious injury to others, and yourself. What if you wind up in the hospital for several weeks? No income, no car, and, probably massive attorney's fees just for your own self gratification? It's this kind of thinking and actions that raise allready outrageous insurance premiums for all of us. Just sit back, listen to some tunes, bite your lip and savour the smell of the pizza! ------------------ 89LX5.0 Original Owner

03-15-2001, 09:02 PM	#7
Mr 5 0 Conservative Individualist Join Date: May 1997 Location: Wherever I need to be Posts: 7,487	As a former insurance agent (wife was a claims supervisor in a large insurance company, too) I can tell you that your thoughts about failing to take evasive action to avoid an accident is a very foolish idea and you should forget it, quickly...please! Aside from the obvious physical danger that poses to you and the other driver (assume he/she is an idiot and is doing something dumb and/or illegal) your failure to swerve or whatever will be noted by both the police investigating the accident and the insurance adjusters, and these guys know what to look for, trust me. No matter the state rule on liabilty (all-or-nothing or percentage assignment) if you can be shown to have not braked hard, swerved or whatever the situation called for to avoid the accident, you'll be in some legal trouble, and as noted, the other guy will lie his head off, guaranteed. Remember, the insurance company (his) doesn't want to pay a dime if they can help it and anything they can find to make it your fault, they will. Once, I a women pulled out of an alley about 10 feet in front of me, totally blocking both lanes of a main street as well as the sidewalk and I was so close to her that I was forced to hit her car, but I aimed for her front tire/wheelwell, and avoided hitting her where she was sitting and could have been hurt. It was a minor accident (I lost a bumper on the Plymouth Horizon beater I was driving but no sheet metal damage), she received a ticket and her insurance company paid for my damages, no questions asked. Still, she attempted to sue me. My insurance company lawyer and I had a good laugh over that; the fact that she received a ticket and her insurance company paid all my damages meant that her company accepted all liability for the accident and the ticket simply reaffirmed her responsibility. I never heard anything from her again, of course. Had I not tried to avoid hurting her in an unavoidable collision (the cop noted this on his report), I could have possibly been found partially liable, and the 'case' might have been actionable (she could have sued me). As it played out, I was free of any liability, which is how you want to be in any accident, believe me. As for insurance, I carry and always used to recommend 100/300 ($100,000 per person, $300,000 per accident) plus $20,000. medical coverage. This is mininum in todays economy, where million-dollar lawsuits are common. A $20,000 per-person limit is a joke and dangerous to your financial health should you ever become involved in a serious accident where you are found at fault (going one mile over the limit when you hit someone can be enough to sink you, legally). Something to consider. As for using your vehicle in your pizza delivery job; You need to check the 'Exclusions' portion of your insurance policy. This will tell you if the policy will cover you if you have an accident while using it for commercial reasons (it may). If not, the Pizza company should be the primary insurer, but you need to find that out. If you don't understand your policy - especially the 'exclusions' portion - have your agent (if you have one) sit down and explain them to you. Insurance is a bore but suddenly becomes real important when you have an accident, so know where you stand before you need it...and never give up avoiding accidents; you'll live longer.

03-15-2001, 09:34 PM	#8
Rev Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1998 Location: Houston, Tx. Posts: 3,887	Often times, in Texas at least, the legal question comes down to "who had the last chance to avoid the accident?" Even if someone runs a stop sign or red light, you still can't just T-Bone them if it's avoidable. Another legal question is "did he keep a proper lookout?". Even if someone else ran the stop sign or light, if you weren't paying attention, you could still be at least partly liable. Most of this is just rephrasing what others have already said. Just keep driving defensively and avoid those accidents. Good luck avoiding the loonies. Rev ------------------ '66 Coupe, 306, 300 HP, C-4, 13.97 e.t., 100.3 mph 1/4 mi.