IMPORTANT info on a MW member....

[allcarfan]

Ok Gents....here we go with the FULL story....scammer? You decide.

Mr. Lutz advertised two stock upper and lower ported intakes and a cobra upper and lower intake for sale on Corral.net. -goes by the name of SLIDER there, has been banned from stangnet as 351_82gt, and is on mustangworks.com as 82 gt. I emailed him about the Cobra intake. he emailed me back and said he could work that deal with me. He said he wanted me to send a MO to his address so his wife didnt see the funds. Not a problem. He signed his email "bryon" So, a few days past and he said he was having a hard time finding a box because he was moving. He said to just pay him via paypal and he wasnt worried about the charges. So, I paypal him.

A week later, the intake still had not been shipped, he had not provided me with any contact information other than his one email address. He said his Internet was getting cut off because he was moving.

The box arrives. Return address: bryon Layton, bloom st, danville, PA. (notice the no street number) I thought nothing of the return address because he always went by "Bryon" in his emails. I ended up moving with my job to atlanta. my father went to my other home, opened the package and sent me some pics....a stock upper and lower intake. I start emailing "Bryon" - no returns. I figured maybe his Internet got cut off like he said and I gave him some time to move. Then things started getting fishy.

N8miller emails me and informs me about Rob Parsons. Rob was done the same way by "bryon" as I was....only two weeks earlier. Robs money was refunded....after he was told that "bryon's" special army unit had been activated and was getting sent to Germany. So...is it Germany or Utah? Well, I had had it. Nate filled me in on some more details. I happend to go back to my paypal account....the person i sent payment to was brian Lutz. This is when I posted up.

I did some investigating. Thats when I found Rob Parsons message. I posted every place I could think of....then came the phone calls. I tracked down some of Brian's family in Danville. Most of them want absolutely nothing to do with him because...in their own words "he is in and out of trouble all the time." although, they were willing to help. I contact the Danville Police Dept. As soon as I said his name...they knew who he was, knew the car he drove, and where he lived. They said they knew him...professionally. The case was turned over to the township where Mr. Lutz lives. I spoke with another officer. I contacted the PA Attorney General Consumer Fruad division. The FBI Internet Crime division was also contacted.

After all of this...magically...someone registers on stangnet that happend to be a "friend" of brians. He PM'd me stating to give him a chance. But, not once did he offer to give me any contact information or tell me that he was a friend of brians....fishy.

So, my hunting goes on. Finally "Brian" emails me...from a totally different email address, only after this 'friend' lets him know what is up. he says there was a mix up. he says he swore he thought that was a cobra intake because he bought it at a swap meet/flea market a few months ago and thats what they said. Yeah, so, Rob Parsons intake was a stocker too.....but...he thought it was a cobra also? I probably have the same intake that was sent to Rob. He also asked N8 miller to buy his stock intake from him...so, the excuse of knowing the difference between a stocker and a cobra isnt going to work this time. Brian has sent me a MO for my full amount back...ONLY after I started posting up

So, what happend to moving to utah? What happend to the special army unit in germany? Why did you sign all your emails to me "bryon" - send a package to me from "Bryon Layton" - and then tell me that your neighbor sent it for you? Were you signing your neighbors names on my emails? What happend to the Internet being disconnected? How can you not know the different between two intakes when a few weeks before you went through the same thing with another buyer? How come no street number? how come you were banned from stangnet? how come if your Net was disconnected, you continued to post on mustangworks...but wouldnt respond to emails? how come the cops know you so well ...not in a good way? Fake names, exscuses, different email addresses, lies about moving, the Internet, your 'wife' - that your family has no knowledge of. Things just do NOT add up here. Im sure im missing some more details of my investigation....I will post them up as I remember them. Scammer? Attempted Scammer? You decide.

[82 GT]

Not true at all.... I gave this guy a full explanation and refunded his money in full. I gave him the explanations for all the things that "didn't add up". If I intended to scam him, why would I offer to pay those two gentlemen back. Why didn't any Danville police officers contact me if they "knew me well", knew what I drove and where I lived? I got NO visit from any law enforcement official or phone calls from them. Hell...I even told ALLCARFAN to keep the intake since it was the wrong one and sell it if he could.
All the Danville cops that remember the mischief and hell raising I did as a teenager 20yrs ago are long retired. The cops that know me now are the ones that came to my house all the time when I called them for the asshole neighbors I used to live to.
His story about my family wanting nothing to do with me is total bullshit. I was just over at my brother's house yesterday watching football with him but yet no mention of anyone trying to contact me was ever brought up the whole 4 hrs. I was there....hmmmm
Everyone and I mean EVERYONE in my family know my phone number and address....but yet I never heard a peep out of them about any of this......strange huh?
ALLCARFAN is a member of STANGNET and only posted this mis-information to cause trouble and create animosity between me and the friends I have on here.....no other reason at all.
Oh yeah....I was banned from Stangnet but not for the reason that was told here. It was because I had a disagreement with a moderator and he didn't like the nasty PM I sent him.
I refunded this guy's money with a full explanation. I did not apologize however, because he and his "buddies" on Stangnet already had their minds made up about me....so why bother?
So..he has his money and yet still wants to continue causing trouble and telling half truths...why?
Someone that tries to "scam" someone, isn't going to offer to refund money....especially if he received no word at all from any law official to do so.
I have sold many parts here on MW...and Ebay and it's funny I never saw a negative post about the stuff I sold.
ALLCARFAN....I am NOT going to argue back and forth with you on the message boards about this anymore and waste their resources. I've said my part and I'm finished.
You got your money back with my full explanation of the situation. If you don't believe what I told you then there is nothing I can about that. I don't see your need to involve other members that had nothing to do with this at all besides to just cause trouble.

[allcarfan]

You provided NO answers to the questions posed in my post. The only "Answer" I got was.....

"my neighbor shipped it" But why did you sign your "neighbor's" name to all your emails to me before anything was shipped? Do you want copies of them?

"I bought it at a swap meet and this is what I was told" But you asked to buy other peoples stock intakes...and were selling stock intakes....when they were ALL the same....dont you think something is up?

Moving?

transfered to germany with special army unit?

No Internet?

Email address magically stop working once you send item?


The police did not come to your house because I told them it wasnt necessary, but they said they would in a heartbeat if they needed to.

You refunded my money because I tracked you down and "caught" you in your lies....as others have done. If you werent trying to SCAM someone, you would have provided me the info you said you were going to. No matter what you say, your lies just dont add up Brian, bryon, or whatever you go by.

This will be the last time I post this information. i will let everyone here, and on other forums decide what kind of businessman you are and if they want to do business with you. I have not bashed or name called. I have simply stated FACTS and my dealings with you.

[82 GT]

What "other" people did I scam????
I sold you and another guy on Stangnet intakes...who else?
I gave you and Rob refunds and explanations. I don't see Rob on here still causing trouble after his refund.....like you are.
I refunded your money and I owe you nothing else. Since you don't believe anything I've told you, I am not going to continue trying.
All your questions have been asked & answered at one point or another.

[mustangII460]

My .02$

If you sell something you better ship it ASAP. If theres a problem with the shipping, you better contact the buyer ASAP.

Requesting a MO should have raised a flag in ANY purchase from ANYONE. I would have stopped there.

There are other holes in this altercation I will not point out.

Corral.net is worse than ebay for getting ripped off.

Thank you have a nice day.

[82 GT]

Originally Posted by mustangII460

My .02$

Requesting a MO should have raised a flag in ANY purchase from ANYONE. I would have stopped there.

I was paid through Paypal. ALLCARFAN suggested a money order originally so I would avoid paypal fees.
I considered it but decided to go through paypal so that there would be a record of the transaction.

[mustangman65_79]

Can I suggest that u guys take this to PM, no use in wasting bandwidth for this...

[andy669]

You wont find many followers here, Allcarfan. 82GT has been a well respected member of this board for as long as I can remember.

Andy

[8850GT]

My .02 cents
Brians feeble and inaccurate stories are not to believed.
If I had believed Brian's first email pretending to be an uncle and that Brian had left suddenly with his special Army unit to Germany and that there was no way to reach Brian, I would not have gotten my money back. Brian did explain later that the uncle email was a lie. He said that he lied to buy time to find his friend that owed him money. Strange thing to lie about and chance ruining his fine respected name.
He also told me that the he sold the intake for a friend and that he did not pack or ship the intake. Strange how the box he had no part in packing or shipping was packed full of cardboard with his name and address all over it.
Telling Allcarfan that he can keep the intake does not make you innocent. You told me that I could keep it to. I guess after you pay $20 return shipping twice for a $40 part it is not worth getting back. By continuing to say that you refunded our money, does not make what you did right. These stories are all desperate attempts to get himself out of hot water.

[82 GT]

It doesn't matter what you or ALLCARFAN or anyone else for that matter think. These same questions have been asked and answered.
I admit I was an asshole towards you only because you would call all hours of the night asking when you would be paid back.
You were disrespectful to the people who answered the phone.
I have no time for anyone that talks disrespecful to anyone in my family...especially my 13yr. old son. That's bullshit!!
THEN...after arrangements were made to repay you, after all the late night calls by you, nasty emails, you have the NERVE to ask me if I would like to sell you the inake that was shipped to you by mistake...even though it was not what you wanted originally.....go figure. How much sense does that make?
This matter, as far as I'm concerned is finished.
This whole situation has been distorted so many times, quotes made out of context, lies..... it's almost comical.
You and ALLCARFAN have your friends on Stangnet and I have mine on here even thought I will probably never meet any of them in person.
As pointed out earlier, this is a waste of bandwidth and pointless to continue. I see nothing more to gain for either of us at this point.
I am not going to make anymore replies to this thread so go ahead and waste more bandwidth and resources.
ALLCARFAN did not get the responses he was looking for from the other members of MW so he gets you to back up his lies to make him look better.
If my intentions were to scam ANYONE, I would have allowed you/allcarfan to have the burdon of proof that I DID NOT ship what was agreed upon but instead, I admitted my mistake and refunded your cash....think about it...it happens all the time!
Who else are you and ALLCARFAN going to bring over from Stangnet to support your lies to make you look victimized?
I've sold lots of stuff through the classifieds here on MW and have never read a post that I tried to scam them...NEVER!


If I have ever wronged anyone from here please let me know but instead do it through PM instead of wasting resources.
Hell...PM me if you also believe/disbelieve any of this.
I have nothing more to say about this matter and I will not reply again to this thread.

[hot90GT]

Nevermind....


*edit*

[allcarfan]

Originally Posted by 82 GT

I was paid through Paypal. ALLCARFAN suggested a money order originally so I would avoid paypal fees.
I considered it but decided to go through paypal so that there would be a record of the transaction.

And your lies get worse and worse. I have every single email from you. YOU said you wanted a MO so your "wife" wouldnt see the money. Then you cameback saying you wanted paypal becuase you were moving to UTAH and were afriad the MO would go to the wrong address. So....where are you now? Still in Pennsylvania. Why is the name on your emails and your paypal account different?

Would you like a copy of your emails where you signed a false name and you said you wanted a MO isntead of paypal originally?

As for taking this to the PMs....if that was done, then know one would know about the business dealings of this man and someone else could possibly end up in this situation. Maybe you all should check out ROB PARSON's response to all of this on stangnet.

BTW: Just because someone has 1600 posts....doesnt make them a 'reliable' person. I am not asking for a 'following,' however, I thought it was my DUTY to post up exactly what has happend in this situation to warn others. I have absolutely no reason to lie or 'make stuff up.' I have every piece of documentation to back up my story. Unfortunately, brian lutz/bryon layton....does not. Wonder why he didnt post the parts here for sale since he has so many posts...or did he post them for sale here?

[82 GT]

Originally Posted by allcarfan

I am not asking for a 'following,'

Not looking for a following huh.....could you explain this then?
http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=514568

This IS my last post on this now. I just wanted to post this for everyone show what kind guy I'm been dealing with.

Thanks to all those who PM'ed me with your support.
I've received no negative PM's from here.....gee I wonder why.
This thread needs closed...not to hide any guilt but because it's total bullshit.

[Unit 5302]

May I make a suggestion?

Nobody is even reading the last 10 posts by you guys. Their minds are already made up so take it to the PMs.

He said/she said. People are constantly getting screwed on ebay and the like. On the other side, some people wouldn't be happy if they got a new car for free.

[mustangII460]

What kind of free car?