Call me crazy, but there are weird things flying over Mecca!

[fiveohpatrol]

Kevin, simple solution. You work on an Airforce base that has 3-4 F-16's taking off all throughout the day (I know because the damn things wake me up every freakin morning before class). Just walk over to them one day before they take off and have them do a fly by over your house and if the thing appears they will demolish it!

seriously though, I'm kinda up in the air about it. I like many other people that have replied believe that there is others out there somewhere, but just not sure if they have visited us or not.
The only way that I'd be convinced is if one came up to me and asked for a race

[crewzin]

Well I have to say this thread is interesting. I personally try to stay on the scientific side of things, basically, show me and I might believe. Theres just one catch, ive seen something once that could not be human built. I know, the goverment has all kind of toys yadda yadda. But this was past what they could do on there own. My best friend was with me when we saw it so I atleast know im not crazy and he can back me up on this. Regardless of whether you believe or not people have seen things and you cant take that from them, I KNOW WHAT I SAW! Some believe in stuff blindly without proof and thats their choice but some dont and its hard for them to believe but when they do it means something to them. And about us being the last place that aliens would want to come to, come on, we are crapping in our pants because they found some damm rock in ice that may have been knocked off Mars and landed here with what looks like microscopic life in it. Now we are spending tons of money to check Mars out. If we are such a minority in the universe then why would'nt other intelligent and advanced life not be looking for us. Thats our main goal and we are'nt that advanced. I think if we found a planet with life still on it that we would do every kind of probe we could before stepping out of a ship and hollerin, Hey wasssss upppppp!!!! Maybe all this means something then maybe it does'nt! You know a turbo will make my car run 9's they say but untill i get one and see for myself i wont believe!! :

[2FastLX]

In my original posts I mentioned this thing flew around like a bumble bee. Maybe I needed to go into a bit more detail... It actually looked more like an insect than it did anything mechanical. So I can't believe it's something the government built. And it was flying around in one spot for a few minutes then made a 100 yard dash in the blink of an eye. My wife even missed seeing it move once when she blinked. She did see it jet accross the sky eventually though which made me realize my eyes were not to blame. Drew, if I see them again I'll give ya a holler. I want someone else to see them too. Her uncle and Father are both on the lookout as well.

Oh yeah. Both times I have seen them they have been visible in the sky for over an hour.

[PKRWUD]

I must have missed the thread where someone said that aliens wouldn't want to come here. I'm sure they would. I'm equally sure they haven't. Do the math. You would have better odds of finding the same grain of sand 10 years apart. It's estimated that there are trillions of planets. Trillions. Let's just say it's 2 trillion, rather than the estimated 8 to 10 trillion. If you were able to visit 1000 different planets every single day, searching for life, it would take you 547,900 years to check them all. That includes Sundays. Do you really believe that we are that special? 1000 planets a day, every day, for over half a million years. Think about it. The odds that we've been visited are so miniscule, it's rediculous. Consider this as well: Mankind has only existed here for a small fraction of this young planet's history. I've heard it said best in a 24 hour analogy. If you took the entire timespan that the earth has existed, and crammed it into 24 hours, mankind was only around for the last 30 seconds of the 24 hour period. In that brief sliver of time, we did something that encouraged someone else to travel here? You would have better odds of finding a high school marching band in which every student had identical DNA and fingerprints. You'd have a better chance at winning the lottery 10,000 times. In a row.

It's a very fun subject, I agree, but c'mon guys. Do the math yourself.

Take care,
-Chris

[crewzin]

We may be a tiny little speck in time, thats true. But doing the math will tell you that if its only one in a billion/trillion whatever chance of life then math dictates that there is other life somewhere. Sure life may pop up at different times on other planets, like maybe some creature similar to ours eons ago just west of here but has since been extinguished. We've been able to be in space now for what 30 to 40 years. Yet we still cant send anyone far away but we have sent probs in our place. As a evolving being with evolving minds wouldnt it make since that another life somewhere with intellect far exceeding our own be using probes instead that can let them know something is here. I would guess to say that we will continue to explore and maybe find forms of life on other planets as we and our technoligies progress.Even if it is just bacteria, its still life. And these finds would probably be from a prob first instead of a manned ship. Hell it may take hundreds of years, but unless wiped out we someday could be the craft in the sky on someone elses planet. The math can go both ways you just have to be open minded and let our advances show us the way. Science is math but not math alone. Hell if i could go by just the numbers my car should fly, but it aint so. Sorry for the rant,.... just another crazy Texan whos seen to many starry nights. Later.....

[2FastLX]

If there are that many planets, there may be quite a few of them that have intelligent life on them. And maybe more than just a few are able to go anywhere they want in the universe. Now if that's the case maybe they are able to detect which planets are capable of supporting life without even investigating their solar systems. I mean, we know that about all the other planets in our solar system and have never set foot on any of them. That would narrow the number of planets they would have to investigate down to what, maybe 1 in 1000 or even more?

Who knows.

[PKRWUD]

I also agree that there must be intelligent life elsewhere, I just don't believe they've been here yet. I can't believe that any society that was so advanced that they could travel thousands and thousands of light years in their lifetime would go to all the trouble of finding us and then checking us out, and not making it known. If they were peaceful, they would have gone out of their way to get to know all of us, and if they were hostile, and had the technology to get here, we'd be vaporized by now. I don't mean to be pissing in everyones Cheerios, and I do love the whole UFO concept, but there's just no way, IMO.

Take care,
-Chris

[2FastLX]

Now is where it gets weirder. My wife's mother just said she saw the same thing the other night. She lives just down the road from us. <insert Twilight Zone theme music here>

I think next time I see them I'll be calling the local authorities.

[Dark_5.0]

Keep in mind that the earth is something like 5 billion years old and humans have not inhabited earth nearly that long.

PKRWUD the amount of time humans have been on earth is negligable.. How do you know that they were not here before us?? How do you know they havent watched us evolve from caveman to present.

I dont know just the whole concept of "why would we be that special" makes no since to me.

I am sure if you had the ability to travel through space and seen an uncharted new planet, you would check it out.

I know I would,
No flames just my opinion,
Later,

[StoplightWarrior]

Did anyone even read my reply? I am 100% serious here.

[PKRWUD]

Stoplight-
yes, isaw them both. I believe that you believe we've been visited. I am just equally convinced we haven't been, that's all.

Dark-
What I mean by being special, is that I think it's pretty presumptuous to think that of the trillions of planets that exist, that we were selected as one to visit. Our technology now can see millions of light years into the past. In fact, they say that the Hubble can now almost see the beginning of the universe. We still haven't run across anything that even mildly resembles intelligent life, let alone one so intelligent that it could traverse unfathomable distances. We have ruled out the possibility of intelligent life anywhere within our reach. The closest star to us is 10 light years away. You would have several generations of people from birth through death on the space ship taking us there. People who's entire life was spent on a space ship. It would take us hundreds of years. We have searched 1000 times farther away for any signs of intelligent life, and have found none. This tells me that if there is intelligent life out there, and I do believe there is, that it is probably on the other side of the universe, which makes the odds of them selecting us even crazier. I'll let this thread go after this. I don't want to come off as such a negative person, but you don't seem to realize the improbabillity of what has been suggested. You'd have a much better chance of beating a F16 jet with a snail in a 5 mile race.

Take care,
-Chris

[crewzin]

Stoplight warrior, I read your post but heres the problem. To make a intelligent decision you have to be presented with facts, proof, undeniable proof. That means to most, i have to see it for myself. I have seen something myself that made me wonder but it still is not identified so I could be anything. Although I dont think we are capable of building something that technical when we cant even build a good artificial heart. I will always be open minded about things and hope that the scientists will be also and proove this subject true/false. Even if we did find life with Hubble it would take eons to get there with present technology but give it time and we will have a better way. I think that if we had been born 50yrs later that alot of this would'nt even be discussed anymore due to the advances and the rate that they are moving forward. The tech will be there for us to do things we have'nt though possible. I'll be waiting for a answer one way or the other. Although im humble enough to hope we're not the only drifters out in the sea.

[WADS56]

I believe that we have been visited. I have seen it with my own eyes, and I have seen it through a 75x telescope. I am not going to try to explain what I saw because I can't describe it that well, and know one will believe me anyway.
There is so much stuff we don't know and will drive you crazy thinking about it. As far as we know we could be a bunch of labatory rats and wouldn't even know it.

[Dark_5.0]

The human race is so arrogant if there is intelligent life that is so intelligent that it can travel hundreds of thousands of lightyears.

What makes you think you would find them before they find you.

Look how far our technology has come in the last 50 years. Imagine a civilization that is 10's of thousands of years old imagine what cool things they could do.

Later,

[Mercury]

PrkWd.

You mentioned doing the math, and figuring out how many planets could possibly have life on them. While there may be more than a number can represent, conditions for the most part do not favor the growth of life forms.

There is a developing science behind finding extrasolar planets, extrasolar systems, and what it takes to sustain any form of life. Even though our planet detecting abilities are still in there infancy, there are several things we can deduct from teh little information we have found.

Of course there are infinite amounts of planets grasped by a stars gravity. But you have to consider alot of other things than the number of planets. The planetary systems stability. For example, look at Pluto. Its orbit is highly elliptical, It has been "Slung" by another massive body at one time or another, possibly Neptune. Most systems found have planets with extremely elliptical orbits. One that when computed out, only spell doom for the planet. Those large bodies, and there elliptical orbits make the possibility of there being terestrial planets like earth in that system...Extremely slim. If there are/were, more than likely they wouldnt have the time neccassary to sprout life before being destroyed or flung out.

Sure, there are countless stars alone in our Milkyway, but.....Alot of them have some charectoristics that make it hard to support a stable planetary system. Lots of stars have companion stars looked in orbit. Binary star systems are not condusive of planetary formation. Planets, and stars tend to get gravitationally shot out of the system.

A big percentage of stars in galaxies are also in Clusters. A hostile and unlikely place for stable planetary systems. The Nebula in Orion is host to countless Brown Dwarfs, and Gas Giants wondering thoughout them, long detached from there parent star.

Its not as easy as Carl Sagans Formula.

I beleive intelligent life is out there, no doubt about that, but I dont think that its plentifull enough that another civilazation would ignore the discovery of another civilization on another planet.

You also have to think of things like Planet Killers. No doubt that there is intelligent life, growing and evolving out there right this minute. One thing to think of though is how many of those civilazations end prematurely. All it would take to end the existance of us Humans in a short amount of time is a relatively small chunk of rock. Consider how many civilaztaions will get wiped out by such before they can have the technology for space travel.

Space Travel.

Space Travel alone is a whole other aspect to think of. I will remain open minded as to if intelligent life has visited us, I beleive there is a good possbility it has. I believe the ones that might of visited earth live relatively near by. A close star.

Space, time and mass do some very interesting things when you start talking about the speeds that would have to be attained to travel from star to star. You have time dilation, increased mass (mathmatically its supposed to be infinite at the speed of light), and volume issues.

Consider this....You have a space ship that can go the speed of light. You cant just hop in it crank her up and go the speed of light. Nor can you just all of a sudden stop. At least not us humans can.

So, just because the galaxy and universe may be teaming with life, that does not mean that it will ever be able to reach us, or know of our existance. Making me believe that if a civilazation knows of any other life out there, IT WILL TAKE INTREST. For its other nieghbors may be out of reach.

I could go on for at least 9 more pages, and go into great detail, but I dont want to bore everyone to death with my endless jibber jabber. Space, and the physics behind it are one of my specialties.

[cad614]

Originally posted by Mercury
Binary star systems are not condusive of planetary formation.

I seem to recall Tatooine being in a binary star system, maybe you should watch Star Wars again.

Seriously though, I beleive in the possibility that there is intelligent life out there and even that we may have been visited. However like pkrwud and merc, I don't think they're going to stop by anytime soon.

Good topic, keep the thoughts coming.

[Mr 5 0]

PKRWUD:

I generally agree with your 'alien visitation' analysis and I'm amused by folks who flatly deny and scoff at anything in the bible as totally fantastic and unprovable ('myth's and, fairy tales') but readily accept constant reports of 'alien visitations' as perfectly acceptable - without a shred of proof except another's word on it. They always miss the irony, too.

I won't contest another's experience - how can I? I wasn't there and have no idea what someone else 'saw' - but I agree that a lot of folks are inclined to calling 'aliens' the source of many things they don't understand, just as many will ascribe mysterious, misunderstood events as 'miracles' and of God, when they may simply have a logical, not supernatural explanation.

This is just humans being human but I agree, there may be life on other planets - somewhere in the vast reaches of space - and it's a fasincating subject, but until I see better proof than reports of 'lights in the sky' and circles in cornfields, I'll withold my total agreement that they've visited us anytime soon. Still, a fun subject to speculate on.

[Mercury]

I'm not trying to argue if other intellingent life from another star has visited us, I dont know. I keep an open mind, and am not going to scoff at people for saying they have, but..

If you think about it. An alien civilazation finds life on another planet. Intelligent life. Who's going to be sent up to check things out? Scientists in many various fields. Scientists that (This is pure speculation of course) are funded (once again, using or monetary structure as a model) through a government. They would tend to be on the reserved side.

I'm sure that they would be smart enought to realize that they would disturb our way of life if they dropped in for a beer or a friendly hello.

Its alot diffrent than getting a new neighbor and going over to introduce yourself.

I'm sure they would know that religons may tople and crumble, governments would panic. Perhaps they would know that the human race isnt quite ready yet for any such news.

Plus I'm sure the information they'd get from just watching us, and observing us would be far great enough a reward for traveling such a distance.

And we only cover radio radio waves in our search for life outside of our own solar system. And we can cover only a small fraction at that. Plus on a planet that is already littered with radio traffic.

SETI has recieved a signal in the early 70's (I forgot the exact year and date) thats origin was not found. It has long since been forgotten because of its short duration and lack of repition.

We are searching for intelligent life outside of our system about as hard as we are looking for asteriods that are earth bound. To give you an idea of what I mean. We could be hit tommorrow with a 9 mile asteroid, and would of never seen it coming.

As for finding bacterial life, we might have a ringer in our own solar system. Two of them. And no, not Mars. Jupiters moon Europa, and Saturns moon Titan.

[2FastLX]

If it ever clears up I will look for these things again and try to get some video. I realize that sounds kind of weird, but for some reason I don't think I've seen the last of these balls of light. I definately plan to get some video if at all possible. Will a regular camcorder get a good pic at night? Don't laugh... but I've never used one. Even if I do get video I'm not sure how I'm going to get it to my PC to show everyone. Maybe a local film shop will be able to do it for me. Any ideas outside of buying a TV card to accomplish this?

The main question is: Do I report them if I see them again? The other day I would have said "no way" for fear of it ending up on the news and me looking like an idiot on TV if they turned out to be a figment of my imagination, but since my wife and her mother saw the same thing I am more willing to do so. But who do I report them to? Should I call the local news stations?