Airbags suck

[Unit 5302]

Oh, and just for the record, I have yet to directly insult you. I called your actions stupid, and implied anybody who wasn't using their seatbelt should be acting smarter.

You directly called me a "dumb@ss." So who's doin the name calling here anyway? If the name calling is a mark of immaturity, would that not indicate you're the one with the problem? Not to mention I'm not debating you because you don't have any leg to stand on should such an event occur. I'm just discrediting your "experience" as unworthy of debate because of the circumstances surrounding it.

[SilverPoet]

Well it's a matter of preference IMO. A neighbor of mine has broken his neck twice on his seatbelt in two different accidents...(don't ask me how or why and I'm not going to debate it because I don't know the circumstance of either accident), I just think that circumstantually anything can happen in an auto accident and personally I think one should have the option to either have an airbag or not.

I am personally unhappy with airbags, I think they are more a death trap than a safety device, especially for someone of my height, being a meager 5'2" that's no leg. I'd rather just let the belt do it's job than have to worry about having my neck broken because it's impossible for me to get far enuf away from the damned airbag.

[Dark_5.0]

Originally posted by Unit 5302
Oh, and just for the record, I have yet to directly insult you. I called your actions stupid, and implied anybody who wasn't using their seatbelt should be acting smarter.

You directly called me a "dumb@ss." So who's doin the name calling here anyway? If the name calling is a mark of immaturity, would that not indicate you're the one with the problem? Not to mention I'm not debating you because you don't have any leg to stand on should such an event occur. I'm just discrediting your "experience" as unworthy of debate because of the circumstances surrounding it.

I was not entering into a debate I was sharing my experience. If ever you do have a moment of imperfection and not wear your seatbelt the airbag can save your life.

Since my wreck I always wear my seatbelt.

Later,

[84LX89GT]

I think that airbags can be useful, but as stated should be an OPTION for new cars. Sort of how like it should be an OPTION not a law, for people over 18 to wear a seat belt. If someone puts themself at risk by not wearing a seatbelt, let them deal with the consequences. Same thing with an airbag. If you don't want one, deal with the consequences of not having one, if there are any. I personally don't like airbags and am glad as hell that my 89 doesn't have one. One of the main reasons is the mess that they make and all the damage to the vehicle they do. They're great for cars with comprehensive insurance, but if get in a fender bender and the airbag totals the car, that's kind of ridiculous. There should at least be an option on all vehicles to be able to turn off any airbag you want. This is just my opinion though.

[lysacat]

I for one am glad my Jeep had airbags in it when I totalled it 2 years ago. I only ended up with a broken arm and torn wrist cartilage instead of being dead...
C-ya, Melisa

[Mach 1]

Originally posted by Unit 5302
I will say again, I have no desire to pay an additional 2-3k for my car to protect people who are being stupid.

Talk about being stupid, read your own comments. Airbags are and always have been designed to be used in conjuction with seat belts, not as a replacement for them.

They were not put into cars to "protect people who are being stupid", they were put into cars to protect people period.

I rarely ever wear my seatbelt (just a old habit, not suggesting its a good idea) and I have been in several accidents, a couple very serious, and have always walked away. There are plenty of stories from state troopers that have seen seat belts kill people, so you never know what can happen in a particular acident involving specific circumstances.

Dark5.0- you might think that airbag saved your life, and it very well might have, but you also might have been ok without it, however hard that is to believe. I should be dead from an accident I had without seatbelt and before airbags were in use, and Im still hear, so you never know for sure. I was ejected through the t-tops (with the t-tops installed) in a vehicle and lived

[Dark_5.0]

After my wreck I was just glad to be alive. I agree that air bags and seatbelts both should be options and not law.

Even If I would have lived without the air bag slamming into a windshield @50mph cant do much for your appearance.

Later,

[Unit 5302]

Originally posted by Mach 1
Talk about being stupid, read your own comments. Airbags are and always have been designed to be used in conjuction with seat belts, not as a replacement for them.

They were not put into cars to "protect people who are being stupid", they were put into cars to protect people period.

Let me know when you're going to start disagreeing with me. My comment was directed at the experience, and opinion added, constituting a weak attempt at debate by Dark 5.0. He apparently felt he would have died had he not had an airbag system. I am inclined to agree with his theory in that case, but I still don't see the reason I should pay more for my car because people like Dark 5.0 think airbags are worthwhile due to the concept they have the capability of possibly saving those who don't feel like wearing a seatbelt.

Since it would seem we're in agreement, are you also calling yourself stupid?

For those who don't want to wear seatbelts, fine by me. I propose a new insurance plan. You can disclose that information to the insurance company, and pay a highly elevated premium, giving people like me a nice discount. Should a person be in an accident where they're not wearing a seatbelt after claiming they do for better insurance rates, the insurance company can limit it's liability, and that person can be forced to pay out of pocket for medical expenses most likely related to that choice.

[this is not cbring]

1) i like airbags, they make me feel more secure..........they have come a long way in the last 7 or so years with angles and speeds to make them safer and better..........my gti has airbags all over the place, about 8 of them LOL..........part of why i bought it

2) i honestly have never forgotten to wear my seatbelt.......do it every single time before i put my car in gear.........my parents raised me that way, then it was reinforced when my best friend died in an accident that shoulda been minor, but he was ejected from the car

3)

Sort of how like it should be an OPTION not a law, for people over 18 to wear a seat belt. If someone puts themself at risk by not wearing a seatbelt, let them deal with the consequences.

not really the case, when several people have an accident and get hurt seriously for not wearing your seatbelt, it is reflected in EVERYONE's health care and insurance costs............plus with it being a law, if you get a ticket, it may help make the roads i drive on a bit smoother in the future........my local community needs the revenue

4) airbags are an option.......your 86 or whatever mustang doesn't have them does it?............just not an option with new cars

[Mach 1]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Unit 5302
but I still don't see the reason I should pay more for my car because people like Dark 5.0 think airbags are worthwhile due to the concept they have the capability of possibly saving those who don't feel like wearing a seatbelt.[/QUOTE

Your not paying more for your car because Dark 5.0 happens to like air bags. Im not so sure that airbags have ever caused the price of cars to go up...I didnt notice a large increase in auto prices when airbags became standard equipment.

If you want to blame somebody, blame the government beauracies that force auto makers to make these things standard equipment, not Dark 5.0. This country is overly "safty concious" to the point of being ridiculous. You can really see it in some work environments.

Originally posted by Unit 5302

Since it would seem we're in agreement, are you also calling yourself stupid?

I dont follow you, sorry. Where do we appear to be in agreement, and how does this relate to calling myself stupid? I said you made a stupid comment, and I havent changed my opinion on that issue.

Originally posted by Unit 5302

For those who don't want to wear seatbelts, fine by me. I propose a new insurance plan. You can disclose that information to the insurance company, and pay a highly elevated premium, giving people like me a nice discount. Should a person be in an accident where they're not wearing a seatbelt after claiming they do for better insurance rates, the insurance company can limit it's liability, and that person can be forced to pay out of pocket for medical expenses most likely related to that choice.

Insurance companies are some of the biggest crooks out there. Thats why we all pay high premiums.
I would think its safe to say that most people do wear seat belts these days. Rarely do I ever ride in a car with somebody who doesnt wear one other than myself. In fact, I cant remenber the last time I saw somebody not wear a seat belt other than my parents, which is wear I got the bad habit of not using one.

[84LX89GT]

this is not cbring, you didn't read my post very well as i said it was just my opinion plus you and your '91 Jetta can drive on all the smooth roads you want, but getting ticket money from people not wearing seat belts won't go into road maintainance because all road maintainance is voted on seperately than law enforcement issues and are different issues than the law enforcement budget, which is where the ticket money really goes. As far as insurance goes the reason cost is so high is because of insurance fraud. There is A TON more insurance inflation from insurance fraud than there is from some dumbass going through the windshield in a 50 mph accident. I think personal responsibility is more important than a state trooper's patrol car budget, but that's just me. That's what i'm willing to sacrifice. I wear my seat belt, but i want the RIGHT to not wear it and risk my own safety. I must be crazy though because i always thought a persons rights were more important that someone's budget anyway.

[RPM427]

WOW, I can't believe the thread I started would cuase so much of a heated debate. I got a good look at my friends car today. It is completely totaled, Those Hondas sure are tin cans. The whole car is twisted like a prezel. He still has nasty burns from the airbags on his arms.

[Unit 5302]

Mach 1, airbag systems cost thousands of dollars per car. Do you think that money just pops out of cracks in the Ford proving ground pavement every time they install an airbag? Cost of fully optioned 1987 GT $13,000. Cost of fully optioned 2002 GT $24,000. While you may think 24k = 13k, I don't. Even when you consider inflation, you only get $21,000 at a 3.5% per year inflation rate. With Ford being far more efficient than ever, and technology used in cars getting older and cheaper, it would seem to me something must be adding to the price. Ford makes very little money on selling a Mustang. The profit is in financing for the car. The enhanced ABS braking systems, and airbag systems are largely part of the equation no doubt.

So I guess we're not in agreement. I think it's stupid for me to have to pay for an expensive technology (airbags) based on the idea it may save a person who's decided not to buckle up for whatever reason. It's also stupid for me to have to pay for an expensive technology which has a history of killing people or causing serious injuries, and has a spotty reputation for doing good at best. I don't feel airbags have saved virtually anybody who wouldn't have been saved by wearing a seat belt. The government mandates this kind of junk based on all the people who are safety psycho. If nobody wanted airbags, chances are we wouldn't have airbags.

While I would agree insurance premiums on single people under the age of 25, especially males, is extremely profitable, most insurance is not. Tell me this 84LX89GT, have you ever seen how much money gets paid out on a minor injury accident claim? Even the slightest claims generally have a payout well in excess of a $1000. Many accidents exceed people's coverage. Minimum coverage is often 25/50, or 25,000 property/50,000 personal injury. An accident is likley to generate MRI's, CAT scan's, and X-Rays. Perhaps you're an expert on the fee's associated with such procedures? I'll give you a hint. Both the MRI and the CAT scans will generally have a charged amount in excess of a $1000. A simple pain in the neck can generate $10,000 of payout in a heartbeat. Damage a couple cars slightly and you're likely to have $5000 in damage there. Couple people complain of minor aches and pains, there's a visit to the doctor who refers them to get some scans. Now you're talking another $5k when medical bills are taken care of. Insurance fraud? It's certainly built into your rate. As is underinsured/uninsured motorist protection. Take a look at the premium that goes towards that part of your insurance. Maybe you'd like to compare the hospital bill of a person in a 40mph head on who was wearing their seatbelt vs a person who was not? Well, the person who wasn't is likely dead. That's a pretty expensive bill when the lawsuit is figured in. I've worked for several insurance companies. CNA, RSKCo, Prudential Financial, United Health Group, etc. Of all the insurance types, I know of only one that I would still consider dirty and underhanded. That's medical/health insurance. Many insurance companies no longer even want to write auto policies. You'd think such a killer industry would be attracting companies, not pushing them away.

Insurance companies are under strict regulations all over the place. There is generally a compliance department, legal department, product design department, actuaries, processors, case managers, agents, management, and executives. Lemme tell you, most people in the insurance business don't make squat. Insurance companies are in business to make money, just like the rest of businesses. If they can offer a product at a lower rate and still make a solid return, they'll do it to get the business.

Honestly, I get hosed with car insurance. Most people do not. One of the people I work with has a new Mazda Tribute, and his wife drives a newer Toyota Corolla. Not extremely expensive cars by any means. They pay about $120/mo for car insurance in the Minneapolis metro. So per year, they pay right around $1500 for auto insurance. They are covered if somebody steals their car(s), if somebody vandalizes them, if they get into an accident etc. They have coverge for their own assets in excess of $30,000, along with person injury coverage probably in the $200,000 area, and probably an additional $70,000 of property damage coverage between the 2 policies. Course, that's only $300,000 of protection for $1500 a year, including administration, and business expenses. Yeah, they're probably getting hosed.

[PKRWUD]

Originally posted by Unit 5302
It's also stupid for me to have to pay for an expensive technology which has a history of killing people or causing serious injuries, and has a spotty reputation for doing good at best. .... The government mandates this kind of junk based on all the people who are safety psycho. If nobody wanted airbags, chances are we wouldn't have airbags.

Precisely why there shouldn't be any mandatory motorcycle helmet laws.

Speaking of which, that's the avenue you may be facing if they get rid of airbags. According to the NHTSA, approximately 50% of all auto fatalities are due to head injuries. The same fools that believe all motorcyclists should have to wear a helmet can't be that far behind in mandating helmets for cars. Well, unless they are just preaching out of the side of their necks, and just like picking on motorcycle riders, but I can't imaging anyone would be like that.



Good thread.

Take care,
~Chris

[this is not cbring]

another example of how me not wearing my seatbelt might effect you............

lets say we are both driving on the same road. lets say that i'm not wearing my seatbelt......lets say that you make a mistake, or your car fails you or something.......causing me to hit you.......accident is clearly your fault......with a seatbelt, i might hurt my back and bruise my chest, maybe crack a rib or something........but, i'm not wearing my seatbelt, so i fly into my steering column at a funny angle and get paralyzed........my expenses exceed your coverage by a few hundred thousand dollars.......you face a lawsuit and either settle or lose.........you face a 6 figure debt that may have been prevented or minimized if i wasn't negligent

sounds fair, eh?

[Dark_5.0]

Originally posted by Unit 5302
Let me know when you're going to start disagreeing with me. My comment was directed at the experience, and opinion added, constituting a weak attempt at debate by Dark 5.0

It was/is my opinion that the airbag saved my life, and I shared my experience with airbags. In no way did I attempt to debate you.

If I were to enter into a debate I would be on your side. I dont think any kind of restraint devices. seatbelts, airbags or helmets should be mandatory.

[Mach 1]

Originally posted by Dark_5.0
It was/is my opinion that the airbag saved my life, and I shared my experience with airbags. In no way did I attempt to debate you.

If I were to enter into a debate I would be on your side. I dont think any kind of restraint devices. seatbelts, airbags or helmets should be mandatory.

I agree with you and thought Unit was off base with his accusations, take it for whatever its worth.

Airbags arent going anywhere, so we might as well get used to them.

[84LX89GT]

You have a good point....and you're probably right. But i still don't like the fact that i HAVE to wear a seatbelt, and also i don't like i'm probably wrong and just being stubborn

You guys bring up good points, although like i said even if someone else is at fault and you're not wearing your seatbelt, the person not wearing the seatbelt should face the music. There is no way insurance can decipher how much someone would get in that situation because they put themself in danger at someone else's fault, so i suppose a seatbelt law does make sense. However this still doesn't mean i have to like it

Good debate, you guys have refreshing opinions!

[Unit 5302]

There's a conspiracy here to ressurect threads older than 5 years. I can't add anything now more than I added then because I quit paying attention to the topic.

Seems like I knew a lot of big words back then...

[CobraJet428]

Originally Posted by mustangII460

I think they should fill airbags with Jiffy Pop popcorn. Gives me something to snack on waiting for EMS to arrive.

Amen, brother...with plenty of salt and butter