Anybody else watch the news? Ford losing billions

[Mr 5 0]

Originally Posted by 1SVT2NV

Its the old theory make them think your weak when your strong. Do you think ford could afford to spend billions developing the ford gt if they were going out of buisness. or even cars like the svt cobra. ford has had the number one selling pickup 30 years running. dont believe everything you hear my friend. Ive worked for ford I know how things are going. Same thing goes for gm. its all hype. It pushes americans into buying domestic to protect our economy

Well, we're all entitled to our opinions but I have to disagree with this one. Ford sales are down 20% and their stock is shaky - but it's all 'hype'? That makes no sense. People buy cars and if Ford can't sell as many of their cars as Toyota, etc then they lose market share. That isn't hype, it's simply economics.

A new car - foreign or domestic - now costs an average of $29,000. A 2007 Mustang V-8 coupe has an MSRP of almost $26,000. and goes out the door for about $2,000. less, not including state sales taxes. I seriously doubt that any notable portion of the car-buying public is going to feel sorry for Ford (or GM or Chrysler) and start buying domestic cars that they don't really want and that take a good chunk of a years pay to purchase, out of sheer patriotism. That's ridiculous.

Ford truck sales are important but they have also fallen, as have SUV sales. Foreign manufacturers, mainly the Japanese, are making steady inroads on this particular market segment. As I stated in an earlier post, truck/SUV sales are only one portion of a large market and, alone, cannot save Ford, a company that hasn't made a profit for almost two years.

I don't know what kind of optimistic fairy tales (let's just call it 'hype') the company feeds Ford employees, who are likely to lose a lot of their cushy benefits in future Ford-UAW negotiations, but if I worked there, I would ignore the "we're just pretending to go broke to get sympathy" line and start looking for another job. But that's just me.

[1SVT2NV]

ok keep thinking that sell your stocks. can I ask you what you do for a living

[Mr 5 0]

Originally Posted by 1SVT2NV

ok keep thinking that sell your stocks. can I ask you what you do for a living

I certainly will keep thinking that Ford is in serious financial trouble. Just as those who care to investigate the situation already realize. Look, this is hardly worth the argument so if you choose to believe the 'it's all hype' excuse the company apparently hands out when it's sales drop by 20%, its market share shrinks while it's stock struggles to stay near $8, that's certainly your prerogative. Besides, I don't own any Ford stock. Apparently a wise choice. I'm just saying.

The drop in 2006 sales volume at Ford cost it $3.3 billion (compared to 2005) and lower pricing on the vehicles it did sell cost another $1.9 billion. Do the math. That's a huge loss of revenue. I don't care what the company is telling you (or what Ford employees tell each other), if it continues, it will be, in effect, a financial death spiral. Besides, Toyota - a foreign car company that basically 'came out of nowhere' (Japan, actually) - has already displaced Ford - with all it's history and (mistakenly assumed) owner loyalty as the #2 selling car in the U.S. That is telling, to say the least. The days of U.S. car buyers having loyalty to U.S. cars is long past, I can assure you. Sales figures now prove that contention. That isn't 'hype', it's reality.


I'm in the insurance business, as if that has any bearing on anything.

I'm also a realist who doesn't depend on Ford for my living so I have the ostensible luxury of objectivity here.

[1SVT2NV]

Originally Posted by Mr 5 0

I certainly will keep thinking that Ford is in serious financial trouble. Just as those who care to investigate the situation already realize. Look, this is hardly worth the argument so if you choose to believe the 'it's all hype' excuse the company apparently hands out when it's sales drop by 20%, its market share shrinks while it's stock struggles to stay near $8, that's certainly your prerogative. Besides, I don't own any Ford stock. Apparently a wise choice. I'm just saying.

The drop in 2006 sales volume at Ford cost it $3.3 billion (compared to 2005) and lower pricing on the vehicles it did sell cost another $1.9 billion. Do the math. That's a huge loss of revenue. I don't care what the company is telling you (or what Ford employees tell each other), if it continues, it will be, in effect, a financial death spiral. Besides, Toyota - a foreign car company that basically 'came out of nowhere' (Japan, actually) - has already displaced Ford - with all it's history and (mistakenly assumed) owner loyalty as the #2 selling car in the U.S. That is telling, to say the least. The days of U.S. car buyers having loyalty to U.S. cars is long past, I can assure you. Sales figures now prove that contention. That isn't 'hype', it's reality.


I'm in the insurance business, as if that has any bearing on anything.

I'm also a realist who doesn't depend on Ford for my living so I have the ostensible luxury of objectivity here.

OK lets discuss this again in 5 years and see whos right. deal

[1SVT2NV]

ps i buy all american products whenever I can

[Unit 5302]

If I may interject, is it not obvious why 1SVT2NV believes what he does? The Auto Workers Union has virtually destroyed the entire domestic automotive industry by handicapping the major corporations with their incessant demands for their employer to take care of them for life. The Union itself is as corrupt as any other, making unreasonable demands and immediately threatening to cripple the company should it not comply with those demands. What does the Union tell the workers? Simple. That the company is actually far better off financially than they indicate in order to justify the outrageous demands made. That way, the auto worker can feel as though they are justified, and that the Union is actually of value. Instead, thousands of Union workers are now paying the price in the form of layoffs, outsourcing, plant closings, and early buyouts.

Unions once helped start a revolution, creating a middle class where there was once only rich and poor. Not any more. The relationship is more like that of a representative with a political agenda and a big head. They'll get their way and look good doing it... no matter the cost to the taxpayers, employee's or the country.

Ford is pretending they're in trouble so they can... exactly what now? Sell more cars? No, that doesn't help them. Make more profit? By selling less cars and eating billions of losses in stock value? No, again, that's an extremely negative outcome. Perhaps they're doing it so they can suddenly surprise the rest of the auto manufacturers and outsell their opponents? Absolutely laughable since any major corporation would rather remain on top than allow others to pass them. Oh, I get it. They must be pretending they're failing by fraudulently filing incorrect annual reports, misleading investors and financial analysts, making false sales projections, and profit statements all so they can get their workers to take a pay cut. Please. Grow up. I don't care how old you are. If you allow some Union representative to spoon feed you that information, you're not worth 1/4 of what your company is paying you so feel lucky you're not flipping burgers.

Whether or not your limited brain functions allow you to accept the reality that Ford is currently screwed and very much in danger of having to sell out to a large, profitable foreign auto maker, the reality is just that. I'm not as forgiving as Mr 5.0 when it comes to stupidity. I have a rather low tolerance for it, actually. You should spend some time going over financials and looking at industry reports prior to babbling your unresearched, uninformed, and blatantly stupid position.

In five years Ford will either be owned by another company, bankrupt or turning the corner. There is the possibility that Ford's unproven model lineup could turn the company around over the next several years by proving to be reliable which is something Ford's overall lineup has failed miserably at for decades. The chances are relatively slim, though. As Mr 5.0 has indicated, institutional investors are increasingly apprehensive about Ford's huge losses in terms of revenue, profit, and their overall last ditch effort massive restructuring. If those investors sell, Ford is finished.

[Mr 5 0]

Originally Posted by Unit 5302

If I may interject, is it not obvious why 1SVT2NV believes what he does? The Auto Workers Union has virtually destroyed the entire domestic automotive industry by handicapping the major corporations with their incessant demands for their employer to take care of them for life. The Union itself is as corrupt as any other, making unreasonable demands and immediately threatening to cripple the company should it not comply with those demands. What does the Union tell the workers? Simple. That the company is actually far better off financially than they indicate in order to justify the outrageous demands made. That way, the auto worker can feel as though they are justified, and that the Union is actually of value. Instead, thousands of Union workers are now paying the price in the form of layoffs, outsourcing, plant closings, and early buyouts.

Unions once helped start a revolution, creating a middle class where there was once only rich and poor. Not any more. The relationship is more like that of a representative with a political agenda and a big head. They'll get their way and look good doing it... no matter the cost to the taxpayers, employee's or the country.

Ford is pretending they're in trouble so they can... exactly what now? Sell more cars? No, that doesn't help them. Make more profit? By selling less cars and eating billions of losses in stock value? No, again, that's an extremely negative outcome. Perhaps they're doing it so they can suddenly surprise the rest of the auto manufacturers and outsell their opponents? Absolutely laughable since any major corporation would rather remain on top than allow others to pass them. Oh, I get it. They must be pretending they're failing by fraudulently filing incorrect annual reports, misleading investors and financial analysts, making false sales projections, and profit statements all so they can get their workers to take a pay cut. Please. Grow up. I don't care how old you are. If you allow some Union representative to spoon feed you that information, you're not worth 1/4 of what your company is paying you so feel lucky you're not flipping burgers.

Whether or not your limited brain functions allow you to accept the reality that Ford is currently screwed and very much in danger of having to sell out to a large, profitable foreign auto maker, the reality is just that. I'm not as forgiving as Mr 5.0 when it comes to stupidity. I have a rather low tolerance for it, actually. You should spend some time going over financials and looking at industry reports prior to babbling your unresearched, uninformed, and blatantly stupid position.

In five years Ford will either be owned by another company, bankrupt or turning the corner. There is the possibility that Ford's unproven model lineup could turn the company around over the next several years by proving to be reliable which is something Ford's overall lineup has failed miserably at for decades. The chances are relatively slim, though. As Mr 5.0 has indicated, institutional investors are increasingly apprehensive about Ford's huge losses in terms of revenue, profit, and their overall last ditch effort massive restructuring. If those investors sell, Ford is finished.

BINGO! We have a winna!

I did attempt to be fairly tolerant in my responses to the Ford guy but it hadn't occurred to me that he was simply regurgitating the UAW line and probably believed most of it, which is not surprising. Thanks for the clarification. It explains a lot.

Ford has a long, tough road ahead and with the union apparently selling it's members absurd fantasies about the company 'just faking' it's dire financial condition and dangerously slipping sales is a distinct disservice to the members. That some UAW members actually believe this nonsense (and regurgitate it on the internet, looking ridiculous in the process) when the financial facts are readily available - and indisputable - is worse, yet. No wonder Ford is in trouble.

[Mr 5 0]

Originally Posted by 1SVT2NV

OK lets discuss this again in 5 years and see whos right. deal

Deal. I'll be around and I hope you still have a job at Ford in 5 years.

[Mr 5 0]

Originally Posted by 1SVT2NV;329923

ps i buy all american products whenever I can

I'm sure you're a loyal and patriotic American.

Today, most American companies use foreign labor in one form or another to stay competitive. That 'Made in U.S.A' garment or appliance may have many parts imported from abroad or was constructed of American-made parts assembled in another country. Simply saying 'Made in U.S.A.' is no guarantee of an item actually being manufactured, start to finish, in America, any more. Even so, a modern Japanese car is usually manufactured in America (or Canada, like some Fords) by (non-union) American workers. Only the profits end up in Japan. Well, at least they have profits.