Overated BOSS Mustangs? - Page 2

Unit 5302 · 02-21-2001, 05:07 PM

Hehe, I don't hardly think Mach1, '69fastback, or myself are going to take it too seriously, we're just having a little fun! Besides, we've all been through our fair share of flaming!

Sometimes you've gotta jerk Mach1's chain a little, it keeps him all riled up and entertaining!

90dpscoupe · 02-21-2001, 09:34 PM

Good topic, I know lots of people like the looks of the boss, and the name makes it a popular choice i guess.

my dad told me the only car that ever came close to beating his 383 coronet (a low 12 sec car) was a boss he raced on the highway, he said that boss had some killer top end, but his car had 3.88 grs so it was tached out.

------------------
90 lx coupe: Mac cold air fenderwell, accel supercoil,advncd ignition,3-core radiatr, FMS alum D/S, Black magic fan, 3.27grs, 3chbr flows.
Best time: 13.9116(on 225/60/15 firehawks)
Best mph: 97.80
Best 60': 2.0047

next mods: subframes, mac h-pipe

69fastback · 02-21-2001, 10:19 PM

Never any hard feelings. I think it is fun. I enjoy having heated discussion with people
Unit i do agree with points one and two I said that before. Where u get me on is point three. I have owned and driven a 71 fastback 351 Cleveland. The boss 351 is based of a cleveland block with different heads than the cleveland. It ran the boss 302 style heads. If u don't believe me look it up on the 351 boss page lx mike posted the two different heads are sitting right there next to each other.

------------------
69 428 cobra jet: tons of mods.
97 f-150 5.4 xlt mark III
BUCKLE UP. SUCK IT IN.
Objects in the mirror are about to disappear...
QUICKLY!!!!!!

Unit 5302 · 02-21-2001, 11:41 PM

True, but it is a 351C, and the Boss 302 heads are very similar to the cleveland 4V heads in valve size and flow rate.

It's kinda like saying a 1994 Cobra and a 1994 GT don't have the same engine. Technically, they are both the 5.0, yes? The Cobra has GT-40 heads, so does that make it a totally different motor? Where do you draw the line on what motor is the same and what is not. They made slight cam revisions to the HO motors between the SD and MAF cars, are they different?

As far as I'm concerned, due to the strikingly similar performance, valve size, and flow rate, the Boss is a 351C with 4V heads. Now technically it had Boss 302 heads, but the two pairs 4V and Boss are nearly the same.

Mach 1 · 02-22-2001, 03:39 AM

------------------
1993 GT/AOD
'93 Mustang GT

[This message has been edited by Mach 1 (edited 02-22-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Mach 1 (edited 02-22-2001).]

Mach 1 · 02-22-2001, 03:52 AM

testing

[This message has been edited by Mach 1 (edited 02-22-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Mach 1 (edited 02-22-2001).]

Unit 5302 · 02-22-2001, 11:33 AM

Come on now Mach, I know you were thinking of a good flame to go along with that test!

spinemup · 02-22-2001, 11:57 AM

ahh the good ol' "testing" post. you know people post them when they type something they regret

Mach 1 · 02-23-2001, 12:07 PM

yeah, I had some kind of flame lined up, but I was posting at work, got very busy, was rushing, lost my train of thought, and decided to just bail out. Dont worry, your flames are coming....patience my friend, patience...hihi......

MiracleMax · 02-24-2001, 07:38 PM

Hah, from what I understand the cleveland style heads did not possess a hemi or even a semi-hemi combustion chamber. The correct description would a poly angle combustion chamber desgined to take advantage of the canted valve placement. the BOSS moniker was a marketing gimmick thought up by Semon "Bunkie" Knudson and Larry Shinoda.

there where 3 BOSS motors, A BOSS 302 (69-70), BOSS 429 (also 69-70), and the BOSS 351 (71-? this engine in its preliminary trim was basically a 351 4V cleveland with upgraded internals and a solid lifter cam).

The BOSS 302 cars where built to homolagate a car for trans-am, They featured heavy duty components as well as modified chassis.

The BOSS 429 was basically a Mach 1 that was converted by Kar Kraft to fit the big ol' BOSS 429 engine. Shock Towers where moved out a coupla inches and there where probably a few more mods done as well.

The BOSS 351 was porbably the least factory modified of the 3 cars, since it seemed to just be a collection of HD offerings combined with a solid lifter 351 cleveland.

Dark Knight · 02-25-2001, 05:52 PM

if canted valve heads are hemi heads, then a big block chevy is a hemi too? guess twisted wedge and yates heads are hemi's too? ;-)
the boss 302 was designed for trans am racing, the boss 429 was for nascar and the boss 351 was fords last real performance engine till the 80's..
the boss 429 isnt quite a hemi, like the chrysler.. but close... same with the SOHC 427 *which you could only buy over the counter*

------------------
84 convt,'95 302,AFR's, performer
3.55's, underdrives shorties
14.16@100.08
and a '68 stang that WAS nasty ;-)
MY ride

DemonGT · 02-25-2001, 08:32 PM

yes there is a BOSS 351 cause i have a mustang calander hangen to the left of me and it has a pic of a yellow and black 1971 BOSS 351...says "BOSS" and "351" under it

------------------
1991 GT,T-5,air silencer removed,racing clutch(previous owner put in so dont know what kind),K&N air filter,Aiwa deck,power acoustic amp,2 12" pianeers,UPDATE: Just got my Mac long tube headers and Cat-back

Future Mods:3.73's,Pro 5.0,Shifter knob,FMS 9mm wires

Skyman · 02-25-2001, 10:45 PM

First off, Mach and Unit, you guys are my favorite posters. You always have the strongest attitudes, I love to see you guys going head to head... Anyways...

I read a thing on a stock 1970 BOSS 302 in a Mucle Car Mag yesutrday.. It was running high 14's low 15's at around 93-94mph. Its rated at 290 gross hp so that sounds about right.

My friend has a 70 Boss 302 with an Auto, and the thing was just flat out pretty slow. I could KILL it with my car.

Skyler

------------------
-1989 Saleen Mustang #406-TFS Heads, E-303 Cam, Edelbrock Intake, and more.
-Videos (MPEG)-
0-110MPH In car view (963k)
All Throttle through 3 gears! (497k)
Tire Smoking Burnout! (218k)

MiracleMax · 02-26-2001, 11:11 PM

Well they were good for their day. Seems to me Ford fell victim to the bigger is better syndrome back then when it came to designing intake ports. They are still a bit behind the times today. Especially when you take into account engines like the LS1 which only uses 2 valves, but the sohc mod motor looks more promising everyday. To bad they decided to dump their pushrod motors.

A buddy of mine is cracking 10.20-10.30's in a 3500 lbs SS Z-28 using a 250 shot of giggle gas, a cam, a bit more compression, and a little head work.

, but I digress

, I think the Boss 302 would be a pig with a auto and those huge heads which are designed for a high, high reving engine. Fortunately the cleveland style head proved to be an evolutionary dead end. Although ford still does use a canted valve head on the V-6 motors with a more sensible intake port volume.

Unit 5302 · 02-27-2001, 02:13 AM

Don't be babbling at me with your poly angle stuff. I'm not the nut that named it semi hemi.

Some nut at Ford did!

Oh, btw, the last engine dyno I saw on a Boss 302. 1970 heads dropped compression from 11.5:1 to 8.5:1 to run on 87oct crap, stock cam, stock intake and carb.

369hp 340lb/ft.

Doesn't sound like 290 to me!

Mach 1 · 02-27-2001, 06:02 AM

I didnt think the 70' Boss 302 was available in automatic tranny trim Sky? But you can ask Unit, he is the "Ford information God"

------------------
1993 GT/AOD
'93 Mustang GT

Jaydee · 02-27-2001, 08:59 AM

The only tranny avaliable from the factory in a 1969 or 1970 Boss 302 was a 4 speed toploader, either wide ratio (a 5 on the data plate) or close ratio (a 6 on the data plate). They used a Ford shifter in 69 and a T handled Hurst shifter in 70.

------------------
1965 K code coupe - numbers matching - restoration ongoing. 1987 LX notch, stock heads and intake, 3.55's and typical bolt on's 13.89@100.25

Unit 5302 · 02-27-2001, 01:41 PM

AHEM... THE 1969 AND 1970 BOSS 302'S WERE AVAILIBLE WITH THE MANUAL 4SPD ONLY. NO AUTOMATICS WERE OFFERED

The Ford god has spoken, hehe

Unit 5302 · 02-27-2001, 01:43 PM

Hehe, besides Mach1, you're slipping, look, I've got more posts than you.

Heh, must mean I'm smarter now!

Mach 1 · 02-27-2001, 04:46 PM

Yean, I dont spend nearly as much time on here as I used to. Although I do have 1000 posts under a different Username. I wonder If I could get Dan the Man to add my totals together?

Anyway, nice to see someone filling my shoes..Ill put a good word in for you with the boss..

------------------
1993 GT/AOD
'93 Mustang GT

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02-21-2001, 05:07 PM	#21
Unit 5302 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 5,246	Hehe, I don't hardly think Mach1, '69fastback, or myself are going to take it too seriously, we're just having a little fun! Besides, we've all been through our fair share of flaming! Sometimes you've gotta jerk Mach1's chain a little, it keeps him all riled up and entertaining!

02-21-2001, 09:34 PM	#22
90dpscoupe Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: sanantonio, Tx, usa Posts: 1,407	Good topic, I know lots of people like the looks of the boss, and the name makes it a popular choice i guess. my dad told me the only car that ever came close to beating his 383 coronet (a low 12 sec car) was a boss he raced on the highway, he said that boss had some killer top end, but his car had 3.88 grs so it was tached out. ------------------ 90 lx coupe: Mac cold air fenderwell, accel supercoil,advncd ignition,3-core radiatr, FMS alum D/S, Black magic fan, 3.27grs, 3chbr flows. Best time: 13.9116(on 225/60/15 firehawks) Best mph: 97.80 Best 60': 2.0047 next mods: subframes, mac h-pipe

02-21-2001, 10:19 PM	#23
69fastback IRAQ VET Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: high desert California Posts: 1,480	Never any hard feelings. I think it is fun. I enjoy having heated discussion with people Unit i do agree with points one and two I said that before. Where u get me on is point three. I have owned and driven a 71 fastback 351 Cleveland. The boss 351 is based of a cleveland block with different heads than the cleveland. It ran the boss 302 style heads. If u don't believe me look it up on the 351 boss page lx mike posted the two different heads are sitting right there next to each other. ------------------ 69 428 cobra jet: tons of mods. 97 f-150 5.4 xlt mark III BUCKLE UP. SUCK IT IN. Objects in the mirror are about to disappear... QUICKLY!!!!!!

02-21-2001, 11:41 PM	#24
Unit 5302 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 5,246	True, but it is a 351C, and the Boss 302 heads are very similar to the cleveland 4V heads in valve size and flow rate. It's kinda like saying a 1994 Cobra and a 1994 GT don't have the same engine. Technically, they are both the 5.0, yes? The Cobra has GT-40 heads, so does that make it a totally different motor? Where do you draw the line on what motor is the same and what is not. They made slight cam revisions to the HO motors between the SD and MAF cars, are they different? As far as I'm concerned, due to the strikingly similar performance, valve size, and flow rate, the Boss is a 351C with 4V heads. Now technically it had Boss 302 heads, but the two pairs 4V and Boss are nearly the same.

02-22-2001, 03:39 AM	#25
Mach 1 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Georgia Posts: 3,866	------------------ 1993 GT/AOD '93 Mustang GT [This message has been edited by Mach 1 (edited 02-22-2001).] [This message has been edited by Mach 1 (edited 02-22-2001).]

02-22-2001, 03:52 AM	#26
Mach 1 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Georgia Posts: 3,866	testing [This message has been edited by Mach 1 (edited 02-22-2001).] [This message has been edited by Mach 1 (edited 02-22-2001).]

02-22-2001, 11:33 AM	#27
Unit 5302 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 5,246	Come on now Mach, I know you were thinking of a good flame to go along with that test!

02-22-2001, 11:57 AM	#28
spinemup Registered Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: middleboro,ma, usa Posts: 734	ahh the good ol' "testing" post. you know people post them when they type something they regret

02-23-2001, 12:07 PM	#29
Mach 1 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Georgia Posts: 3,866	yeah, I had some kind of flame lined up, but I was posting at work, got very busy, was rushing, lost my train of thought, and decided to just bail out. Dont worry, your flames are coming....patience my friend, patience...hihi......

02-24-2001, 07:38 PM	#30
MiracleMax Registered Member Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: Hayes, Va, USA Posts: 798	Hah, from what I understand the cleveland style heads did not possess a hemi or even a semi-hemi combustion chamber. The correct description would a poly angle combustion chamber desgined to take advantage of the canted valve placement. the BOSS moniker was a marketing gimmick thought up by Semon "Bunkie" Knudson and Larry Shinoda. there where 3 BOSS motors, A BOSS 302 (69-70), BOSS 429 (also 69-70), and the BOSS 351 (71-? this engine in its preliminary trim was basically a 351 4V cleveland with upgraded internals and a solid lifter cam). The BOSS 302 cars where built to homolagate a car for trans-am, They featured heavy duty components as well as modified chassis. The BOSS 429 was basically a Mach 1 that was converted by Kar Kraft to fit the big ol' BOSS 429 engine. Shock Towers where moved out a coupla inches and there where probably a few more mods done as well. The BOSS 351 was porbably the least factory modified of the 3 cars, since it seemed to just be a collection of HD offerings combined with a solid lifter 351 cleveland.

02-25-2001, 05:52 PM	#31
Dark Knight Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Az Posts: 854	if canted valve heads are hemi heads, then a big block chevy is a hemi too? guess twisted wedge and yates heads are hemi's too? ;-) the boss 302 was designed for trans am racing, the boss 429 was for nascar and the boss 351 was fords last real performance engine till the 80's.. the boss 429 isnt quite a hemi, like the chrysler.. but close... same with the SOHC 427 which you could only buy over the counter ------------------ 84 convt,'95 302,AFR's, performer 3.55's, underdrives shorties 14.16@100.08 and a '68 stang that WAS nasty ;-) MY ride

02-25-2001, 08:32 PM	#32
DemonGT Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 879	yes there is a BOSS 351 cause i have a mustang calander hangen to the left of me and it has a pic of a yellow and black 1971 BOSS 351...says "BOSS" and "351" under it ------------------ 1991 GT,T-5,air silencer removed,racing clutch(previous owner put in so dont know what kind),K&N air filter,Aiwa deck,power acoustic amp,2 12" pianeers,UPDATE: Just got my Mac long tube headers and Cat-back Future Mods:3.73's,Pro 5.0,Shifter knob,FMS 9mm wires

02-25-2001, 10:45 PM	#33
Skyman I need 110mph Trap Speed! Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: So, CA Posts: 4,315	First off, Mach and Unit, you guys are my favorite posters. You always have the strongest attitudes, I love to see you guys going head to head... Anyways... I read a thing on a stock 1970 BOSS 302 in a Mucle Car Mag yesutrday.. It was running high 14's low 15's at around 93-94mph. Its rated at 290 gross hp so that sounds about right. My friend has a 70 Boss 302 with an Auto, and the thing was just flat out pretty slow. I could KILL it with my car. Skyler ------------------ -1989 Saleen Mustang #406-TFS Heads, E-303 Cam, Edelbrock Intake, and more. -Videos (MPEG)- 0-110MPH In car view (963k) All Throttle through 3 gears! (497k) Tire Smoking Burnout! (218k)

02-26-2001, 11:11 PM	#34
MiracleMax Registered Member Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: Hayes, Va, USA Posts: 798	Well they were good for their day. Seems to me Ford fell victim to the bigger is better syndrome back then when it came to designing intake ports. They are still a bit behind the times today. Especially when you take into account engines like the LS1 which only uses 2 valves, but the sohc mod motor looks more promising everyday. To bad they decided to dump their pushrod motors. A buddy of mine is cracking 10.20-10.30's in a 3500 lbs SS Z-28 using a 250 shot of giggle gas, a cam, a bit more compression, and a little head work. , but I digress , I think the Boss 302 would be a pig with a auto and those huge heads which are designed for a high, high reving engine. Fortunately the cleveland style head proved to be an evolutionary dead end. Although ford still does use a canted valve head on the V-6 motors with a more sensible intake port volume.

02-27-2001, 02:13 AM	#35
Unit 5302 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 5,246	Don't be babbling at me with your poly angle stuff. I'm not the nut that named it semi hemi. Some nut at Ford did! Oh, btw, the last engine dyno I saw on a Boss 302. 1970 heads dropped compression from 11.5:1 to 8.5:1 to run on 87oct crap, stock cam, stock intake and carb. 369hp 340lb/ft. Doesn't sound like 290 to me!

02-27-2001, 06:02 AM	#36
Mach 1 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Georgia Posts: 3,866	I didnt think the 70' Boss 302 was available in automatic tranny trim Sky? But you can ask Unit, he is the "Ford information God" ------------------ 1993 GT/AOD '93 Mustang GT

02-27-2001, 08:59 AM	#37
Jaydee Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Conn. Posts: 220	The only tranny avaliable from the factory in a 1969 or 1970 Boss 302 was a 4 speed toploader, either wide ratio (a 5 on the data plate) or close ratio (a 6 on the data plate). They used a Ford shifter in 69 and a T handled Hurst shifter in 70. ------------------ 1965 K code coupe - numbers matching - restoration ongoing. 1987 LX notch, stock heads and intake, 3.55's and typical bolt on's 13.89@100.25

02-27-2001, 01:41 PM	#38
Unit 5302 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 5,246	AHEM... THE 1969 AND 1970 BOSS 302'S WERE AVAILIBLE WITH THE MANUAL 4SPD ONLY. NO AUTOMATICS WERE OFFERED The Ford god has spoken, hehe

02-27-2001, 01:43 PM	#39
Unit 5302 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 5,246	Hehe, besides Mach1, you're slipping, look, I've got more posts than you. Heh, must mean I'm smarter now!

02-27-2001, 04:46 PM	#40
Mach 1 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Georgia Posts: 3,866	Yean, I dont spend nearly as much time on here as I used to. Although I do have 1000 posts under a different Username. I wonder If I could get Dan the Man to add my totals together? Anyway, nice to see someone filling my shoes..Ill put a good word in for you with the boss.. ------------------ 1993 GT/AOD '93 Mustang GT